2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumWhy do Wingers Think Obama is going to use the UN against America?
Serious question. And I'm embarrassed to say that I've simply never taken the time to try to understand WHY these people believe this, because I think it is utterly absurd.
But I need to better understand this to answer a relative's hate email.
Can someone give me the cliff notes version? I know it's in that 2016 movie, but I'm not watching that crap.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)... to confiscate your guns and bibles.
It will be illegal to pray in your own homes.
It will be illegal to speak of God, Jeebus or Ronald Reagan.
You will be required to enter into a same-sex marriage.
"Re-education camps" have already been prepared for anyone who argues.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)It's been continued all of these years. I've always heard about it and it was used against every Democrat. I've heard it for 50 years.
Thom Hartmann: Conservative Millennials, Boomers & Libertarians all being Conned
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101744227
It was used against JFK and his avoiding war with Russia over the Cuban missile crisis was called treason. Any sort of attempt to bring a social democracy such as Europe, Canada, Australia and New Zealand, was called submission to the 'New World Order' described by Bush, Sr.
Or, in blunter terms, Communism. Reagan jumped on the bandwagon as if he brought down the regimes in Europe that remained after the WW2 occupation by the USSR by himself, but he didn't, they did it.
The conservative mouthpieces in Congress have fought for the US to not pay its membership dues to the United Nations for a number of years. Here is one example:
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/international/un_reform/paying_dues.html
Since the 1990s, the black helicopter gang of punditry has said the UN will be the invading army that will occupy the USA and start gun confiscation and rounding up people for death camps, all of the liberty-loving patriots. A certain segment fo the public has grown up believing that the UN is out to get the USA.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Being insecure authoritarians, the idea of the United States being a responsible member of a diplomatic group of equals pisses them off; we're here to rule, they believe. So the UN is evil. And since Democrats are evil too, Democrats must be in cahoots with hte UN and since both the UN and the Democrats hate America...
There's really no logic there. it's a jenga tower made of panic and bullshit.
Skinner
(63,645 posts)Climate denial. Evolution denial. Birtherism. You-name-it. They are completely evidence-proof.
hamsterjill
(15,224 posts)In Texas, I rub elbows every day with idiots who cannot be persuaded with simple knowledge!!! Nuh uh...we ain't interested in no fact checkin'...
freshwest
(53,661 posts)codjh9
(2,781 posts)since I know of nothing the UN has ever done that was 'bad', nor of any effort to take over anywhere, nor has any Dem ever talked of using them to do anything here. Here's my guess: many of them are paranoid, many of them think the US is the only country that matters, don't know much or give a shit about the rest of the world, and they (barely) know the UN is some kind of world-wide organization/body, so they (in those paranoid little minds) jump to the idea that because WE (our leaders) aren't as America-Only, we'd be all for the UN taking us over.
That's probably still not quite the explanation, but they're nuts anyway, so I doubt that I'd ever 'understand' their paranoid fantasies anyway ... but that's certainly what they are.
erinlough
(2,176 posts)The John Birch Society. Not is like, but is.
Hydra
(14,459 posts)To be normal, sane rational human beings.
The sad thing is, I'm being dead serious. The only consistent thought in their various diatribes is that they want America to rule the world so that everyone will be exactly like them. Guns, Jeebus and a world without education and fun.
They make it sound all stirring and patriotic, but they're afraid of world peace and no hungry people. Cool, huh?
Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)they are staggeringly stupid as well.
flyingfysh
(1,990 posts)Fundamentalists are very concerned about the "end times", in which the Antichrist will appear, and there will be a one-world government. The UN is hardly a one-world government, but to people with this paranoid streak in their thinking, it comes close.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)They are against abortion, gays, socialism, etc. as their way of saving themselves through the Rapture or going to Heaven when they die. So it's right down in survival for them.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)I had forgotten about that
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)circa 1957 or so ... small-town/rural Wayne, Nebraska ... my Dad would sign up both he and I for slots in their 24-hour Sky Watch, with binoculars, at the local puddle-jumper airport. We were ... I kid you not ... scouring the sky for incoming Russians. And it was the UN that was making this all possible. I did feel very important as a 9 year old. And yes, he was a Bircher.
budkin
(6,722 posts)arcane1
(38,613 posts)Kooks like Glenn Beck and Alex Jones are among the latest promoters of this nonsense. It's based on nothing.
If your relative is making the claim, the best response is either ridicule or a demand for proof
freshwest
(53,661 posts)Island Blue
(5,819 posts)was that a batshit crazy Republican (is there any other kind) woman who believes this shit and was running for the state house in the 1st District lost. It came down to the wire, but the Democrat won that race. Praise Cheeses!
freshwest
(53,661 posts)mikeysnot
(4,757 posts)but they watch fox news....
Foreign owned, foreign financed, foreign benefiting multi-national news corp fox news is A-OK!
freshwest
(53,661 posts)The Wielding Truth
(11,415 posts)of "fear of the other" that is used a lot in propaganda. If we would see any of our laws irrationally changed to satisfy a demand by the UN then maybe you could question. But as of now,from what we know about President Obama, I see no reason to doubt his resolve to work with the UN but keep our autonomy. He needed no one's approval to go into Pakistan and get Osama bin laden. He needs no permission to drone where ever he feels the need in order to protect us.
Step back and look at how we handle foreign affairs. We are large and in charge,yet we respect other countries and try to help them govern themselves. It's a good thing to be part of a good allegiance. Those allies will work with us have less irrational fear of us and that makes a secure a safer world. The USA is stronger and more respected and will be more followed because we are more trusted.
It is a very good thing to call on the UN to guard the radicals in this world.
Bonhomme Richard
(9,000 posts)DCBob
(24,689 posts)thecrow
(5,519 posts)There is no accounting for crazy. That's why it's called crazy.
I have a relative that *hates* the UN, is stockpiling guns, was glad when our state allowed them to be carried in church, thinks everything stated above... I tried to make a deal with him regarding communications (that they be non-political) and Still he continued to quote teabag blogs as if it was actual journalism and ask if Obama is the antichrist (backed up that one with Scripture, but it was yet another blog), believes Obama is a Muslim (he once stated that he hates nobody, just the muslims). Warned me about the Obama takeover... It's ridiculous. Now he's griping because Obama didn't go to New York and swears that his area didn't ask for food, shelter, etc. during a hurricane. I checked FEMA, and of course they did ask for help, and got it. Even did the travel trailers. And that was under W's reign. Did I mention he attends one of those fundaMENTAL churches? His whole life he's been a cantankerous and mean spirited "christian". He knows it all and it's very hard to even have a conversation because he does all the talking. And the talk is straight from Crazytown.
I have tried to talk sense and back up any (non-political) news with sources, but it goes on today. I have blocked his emails and never did facebook with him because of all this. I am tired of it all and he won't relent the craziness, so I guess I have a lost part of my whole family. And there are others in this with him.
It's crazy, and it doesn't HAVE to make sense. That's how you know it is crazy.
It makes you exhausted and sad. There is no making sense out of crazy.
I have seen a lot of this, and trust me... don't waste your time bothering to correct these people.
I am much happier without all of it.
frylock
(34,825 posts)hamsterjill
(15,224 posts)In their minds, at least! LOL
(Sorry!) I cracked up at your post!!! Thanks for the laugh!
frylock
(34,825 posts)"shoot, really?! i just got my guns back from clinton, dammit!" it usually shuts them up. usually.
demwing
(16,916 posts)They think the US is being threatened by European Socialism, which they feel is synonymous with the UN.
At heart, they don't want anything challenging American intervention in foreign countries. They see the UN as either an opposing force, or as a competitor to our "authority."
In addition, they are bat-shit crazy.
ashling
(25,771 posts)they are certifiably insane!
longship
(40,416 posts)On the drive from Detroit to Lansing, there was always a sign along the road "Get the US out of the UN" at Howell, MI, an apparent hotbed of John Birch lunacy. The billboard was there for years.
These are the same idiological purists who are the core of the tea baggers, and the Republican party.
The JBS was always connected to more nefarious racist groups. They have found comfort in today's Republican party.
doccraig67
(86 posts)cannot enter into international treaties. Only congress can approve treaties. However, this won't work, because the right wing nut blogesphere has pronounced it true. Don't waste your time. Just take them to take their aluminum foil hats off. The election is over.
BREMPRO
(2,331 posts)the radical leaders of the NRA have been pushing the fiction that the UN is going to take away our guns to create fear and donations... think that's the source of this nonsense.
ancianita
(36,157 posts)Your question is a fair, simple one, but the answer is far from simple. But there are answers.
First, what they're told is part of the machinery of manufacturing consent of the so-called governed in a so-called free society.
That machinery is built early. Faith-based childhood training through various institutions is used to keep people in line. Churches help the Republicans to see 'danger' to body or soul during the campaign period. Republican media help the Republicans to feel outrage over every 'immoral' or 'unjust' decision made during the governing period. It's pretty much the creating of a social culture. The fear and outrage switches just keep getting flipped.
Second, another psychological reality of oligarchic politics is that adrenaline is addictive. Overworked, stressed workers and their children are purposely confused by their party's particular 'fact set' used make media 'news' or 'reports' that seem orderly and rational in service of creating alternating fear or outrage. "Protection racket" stories abound in authoritarian societies when some profit from 'conning' others to trust the untrustworthy.
Other psychological frames are globally used: "Us/Them", "Good/Evil" "Faithfulness/Betrayal" dualities. These get used constantly to frame the "facts" presented, whether the 'story frame' is unfounded on facts, or whether the facts are taken out of contexts or simply distorted instead of clarified about their prevalence out in the world.
Third, it's a problem of knowing the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth grounded in facts as its foundation. Exposure -- experience and education -- is everything in determining the "maps" that people create of the world and the world of politics in it.
The most simple answer leads toward emotional habit, which gets dragged along from childhood. Emotional and mental habit formation stays with us into adulthood and people seek out the experiences and information that keep those habits enforced.
My attitude about WHY is this: understanding them is the booby prize. It's not our job to 'fix' them, but every little bit of our knowing why they think the way they do might help every now and then. After years of constantly trying that, I've pretty much decided that adults are responsible for their own constructive mental and emotional change. it's not the responsibility of the rest of us.
Zoeisright
(8,339 posts)That's all you have to say to your relative. "You're a fucking idiot."