Did Vietnam war protestors back then diss Gold Star families?

[DinahMoeHum]

Seems like right now, only the chickenhawks from that era are doing it now.

Feel free to jump in with your observations and memories.

[awake]

1. Unfortunately we did a lot of blaming of those who fought then.

Instead of focusing on those who sent them.

[Little Star]

2. +1

[OldHippieChick]

3. I don't recall anyone blaming those who had died, but

protests were mainly about too many had died. Yes, returning vets were often vilified, but many of them joined the cause.

[nini]

4. Yes

Not all of them but there were some who did that crap. My own ex-brother was that type.

[MineralMan]

5. Some did, and I remember such people to this day.

However, I have never seen anyone who was running for President who has ever uttered such a sentiment until Donald Trump did it.

For him to compare his faux "sacrifices" to the pain of a family who has lost someone in action is simply unimaginable. As far as I'm concerned, that should be discussed with all veterans and families who have lost someone in wartime. I know that I'll be bringing it up to everyone I know who has served or who has had family members who have served.

I'm a veteran myself, having served in the USAF from 1965-1969. I was never in a combat area, and can't claim to understand the sacrifices of those who were. I can't imagine ever belittling such people, though, or their parents. I cannot countenance a candidate for the office of President doing it, either, and will bring up this with everyone I can as the campaign progresses.

[exboyfil]

6. How about any major party candidates?

or any elected national politicians? That is what Trump's statements are equivalent to. It is even not some 20 year old who knows nothing. This is an individual who is leading one of our two major parties.

[radical noodle]

8. Absolutely not

It would never have happened. McCarthy and McGovern were very anti-war and leaders of Dems but as far as I know they would never have done such a thing.

[radical noodle]

7. Some mistakenly thought that if everyone refused to go

the war wouldn't happen. Some of the popular anti-war songs of the era refer to that. I really don't remember anyone dissing Gold Star Families. Although I've heard about disrespect to service men and women, I never personally saw any of that where I lived. To this date we've lost over 58,000 US combatants and some are still dying today from that war due to Agent Orange and other related illnesses.

What we wanted was to stop the war. Remember that many of those who were fighting at the time were drafted and forced to go. Only the wealthy and well connected could find a way to avoid the draft... or the draftees could try to hide. I have friends who are still in Canada today who went there to avoid the draft.

Another thing that many young people don't know is that those who joined the National Guard during that period did so to avoid going to Vietnam. I know this because my husband at that time did just that. There were few National Guardsmen who went to Vietnam because if the military needed more warm bodies all they had to do was draft more people. As far as I'm concerned, anyone who was in favor of the Vietnam War and didn't fight and instead avoided the draft IS a chickenhawk.

Although I am against the draft, I think people are quicker to jump on the anti-war bandwagon if young men are forced to go. My father, who fought in WWII and would never discuss it, always said that if those Congresspeople who want war had to let their family members go first, there would be a lot fewer wars.

[TexasProgresive]

9. From my own experience when I was serving during that time

I never saw or received any disrespect from protesters. I had friends and acquaintances who were vehemently anti-war but they did not spit on me in words or deeds. I am sure that other vets will have different stories but this is mine.

Also I think the Blue Star families (with family members serving) and Gold Star families (serving member died) was not a thing during Vietnam. It was resurrected from WW 2. If I am right there were no families displaying Gold Star banners and pins during that time. They just suffered in silence.

[radical noodle]

10. I wonder now if the pro-war people made a lot of that up

about anti-war protestors spitting on them and booing them? It may have happened but I doubt it was a wide spread as some would have everyone believe.

And you're right about the Blue Star/Gold Star thing. It didn't exist.

[DustyJoe]

11. Plenty of animosity to go around in the 60's

There were anti-war that pulled for the guys drafted and sent over and there were anti-war that villified and were very outspoken about their feeilings on a personal level with anyone they saw in uniform. There was no way to get thru LAX in 1968 without getting the negative end of the movement. It tended to turn active military very anti-hippy rapidly.

I came back from VN in 68 and visited my older sister who lived in the large commune in Placitas NM during my convalescent leave. She was my biggest supporter and her commune friends most even though not accepting me, were civil. There were of course the rabid anti-war crew that figured every returning vet was a Lt Cally and killed hundreds of civilians, but those people would never change their mind anyway.

As a family member she caught some flak from her commune brethren after my visit, but she was pretty scrappy back then and it didn't last. Most anti-war people back then never knew if a family had a serving member as they do nowdays so the families were pretty well insulated from them.

[radical noodle]

13. Yes it was pretty bad

and I wasn't anywhere close to LAX so can only speak of my little corner of the world in Indiana. I'm glad your sister was so spunky and able to help you. The troops, for the most part, did what they had to do and should be honored for their service no matter what the circumstances. People who criticized them should have to walk a mile in their (and your) shoes.

Thank you!

[leftofcool]

12. Actually, it was very wide spread.

Mu husband was spit on coming home, right in the airport. He took it like the man he is and just kept walking. My brother in law was called a "baby killer" by a bartender who refused to serve him even a beer. Yea, it was wide spread alright and no it wasn't made up.

[radical noodle]

14. OMG... I'm so sorry

I was in a bubble I guess.

[leftofcool]

18. No you are not a bubble. You are probably too young to have been there.

[Ms. Yertle]

15. My friend's husband

served in the Navy during Vietnam. He signed up right after high school, and made a career of it. He has told about being in port in San Francisco, and walking down the street in his white uniform. He was proud of his service, in the same way a lot of people are proud of their jobs or their companies. People threw rotting vegetables at him.

IMHO, you could be against the war, while still respecting the people who served, for whatever reason.

[pinboy3niner]

16. I was called 'Baby Killer' on my first pass from the hospital...

...where I was treated for my wounds for 18 months.

There were also other incidents, but I wouldn't use them to broad-brush or smear the entire antiwar movement. It was a mixed bag.

[KingCharlemagne]

23. In what month and year did this happen? That is so unfair that you were called this and

there is little or no excuse for it.

[G_j]

32. Yes they did

there is even a book written about that myth. They were our brothers and friends. Why would we spit on them?

[Donkees]

20. My family had a Blue Star banner in the front window during the Vietnam war. I remember seeing

Gold Star banners also.

[TexasProgresive]

21. I can believe it but I never saw one until Desert Storm when I put one up for my 2 sons serving

Thankfully they stayed blue.

[marybourg]

26. I think your recollection

that the phrase "gold star" was not used, nor the star itself displayed during the Vietnam War is absolutely correct.

[Warren Stupidity]

28. That is correct. We hadn't morphed into full

authoritarian military-worship mode until 9-11.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

17. I'm too young

... but I have older siblings who were teenagers and adults during that time.

My brother didn't do it, but he told me years ago that some anti-war protestors blamed the soldiers because they had the idea that the conflict would end if everyone refused to go. My brother rightly placed blame at the people in charge who sent soldiers there. He said that period was the worst in his life. He was at his low in 1968 when MLK and RFK were assassinated.

He's still grateful that Nixon finally helped end the nonsense, although he despised him overall. He was about to be drafted over there when that happened.

Another funny story from him is that he and his classmates got bused down to Cincinnati for military physicals. My brother was about the only one from his entire group that passed the physical, and his classmates included football players and other athletes who were very fit and healthy. He later found out the others had stayed up all night, popped aspirins and drank Coca-Cola (among other things) so their blood pressures would be sky-high. EDIT: Or maybe it was to make their blood pressures too low? I wasn't there and it's been awhile since I heard the story.

[Old Terp]

19. Yes

It was extreme on all sides. Long hair guys got lots of grief for just existing. There was more than enough hate to go around. Not a good time. So many good kids died there.

[Vattel]

22. Those who wrongfully kill others don't get a free moral pass just because they are soldiers.

Soldiers sometimes fight nobly and courageously for a just cause. Soldiers sometimes commit murder. And their is every shade of gray in between. Not every soldier deserves a "thank you for your service." Everyone who is a decent person, as most soldiers are, deserve basic respect and good will.

[BainsBane]

24. This is about the Khan's son

So your point about wrongful killing seems unnecessary. He, as a soldier, is not responsible for the country's decision to go to war.

[Vattel]

27. He, as a soldier, is responsible for his own decisions,

including his decision to participate in the American war effort in Iraq. I am not questioning that decision, and you are right that my post is tangential to the point of the OP, but some who responded to the OP appealed to the common but incorrect view that soldiers can never be rightfully criticized for taking part in a war.

[DustyJoe]

30. Maybe in this age

Todays volunteer Army surely shows a decision to participate.
So how do you feel about the millions drafted in the 60's, ordered into battle and dead or wounded ?
All of these fall into the murdering soldier you seem to portray ?

The tone in your posts do aptly illustrate what the VN vets faced.

[Vattel]

31. I don't think generalizations are possible.

Every soldier has their own story. And anyone who was drafted already has a mitigating excuse for going, namely, they were coerced to go. But what I object to is the idea that they were just doing their duty and so they can't possibly be blamed at all for anything they did. The irony is that many combat soldiers come home and struggle with their consciences because of what they did. I know people in that category. It would be absurdly facile to just reassure them that, as soldiers, they bear no responsibility for any harm they did.

[DustyJoe]

34. Well

As an ex infantryman in quite a few firefights know of no one in my unit including myself that ever had a guilty concience or second thoughts about shooting an armed enemy combatant shooting at them trying to kill them. If any of my unit had qualms or hesitation to fight they probably did not live thru the battle. I think anyone with the concientous objector notion that they have every right to doubt their mettle, but to cast wide aspersions against a soldier in battle is quite low. The old walk a mile in their combat boots under fire comes to mind to show the difference between a soldier and a coward.

[Vattel]

36. I think many of those confederate soldiers who killed combatants

in a war to defend the practice of slavery should have had troubled consciences. Or if you don't like that example, how about soldiers in Japan's army who killed combatants defending China in the 30s and 40s? Or those Iraqi soldiers who killed Kuwaiti combatants who bravely defended Kuwait against the attempt by Hussein to occupy and annex it? I disagree with you that killing combatants is always fine and dandy. I guess that makes me a coward.

[glennward]

25. I remember many dissed returning Viet Nam vets. No one I knew then ever dissed gold-star families o

or families of those who were wounded in battle or returning soldiers who were wounded. I remember the politicians trying to deny agent orange and PTSS had any affect on returning soldiers. But everyone I knew showed the deepest sympathy for those lost in battle and their families.

Frankly, the most hostile to returning soldiers in my area where white, ultra conservative, and probably racist folks who scorned many returning military as "losers." This was especially so for returning minority military who suffered twice, first on the battlefield and than on the hospital bed...if they were even fortunate enough to receive medical care.

[Warren Stupidity]

29. You are misremembering.

There was little if any antagonism towards returning veterans, at least not from the anti-war left. One of the more vocal and militant groups within the anti-war movement was Vietnam Veterans Against the War. They were not attacking returning soldiers, they were organizing them.

[bluestateguy]

33. So many urban legends about Vietnam veterans being spat on

A journalist a few years ago investigated this notion, and could find no arrest records anywhere of anyone ever arrested for assault by way of spitting, upon a veteran.

That said, it's a big country, and there certainly were a few anti-war protestors who were assholes.

[DinahMoeHum]

35. That's probably Jerry Lembcke. He's a professor

at Holy Cross College (Worcester, MA) and the author of The Spitting Image: Myth, Memory, and the Legacy of Vietnam
https://www.amazon.com/Spitting-Image-Memory-Legacy-Vietnam/dp/0814751474/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1470174312&sr=1-1&keywords=spitting+image

Turns out, he's also a contact source in the New England region for Vietnam Veterans Against The War (VVAW)
http://www.vvaw.org/veteran/article/?id=350

[DavidDvorkin]

37. I remember being struck at the time with how similar the stories were

The spitter was usually described in the same terms, no matter where in the country the incident happened. There was a long-haired hippie girl wearing beads who really got around the US and spent all of her time spitting on returning soldiers.