2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumSome People Are Still Complaining About Hillary Clinton’s Voice
After Hillary Clinton accepted the Democratic presidential nomination Thursday night, like clockwork, political reporters and pundits ― mostly men ― began commenting on the sound of Clintons voice, which they have done time and time again.
Fox News Brit Hume took issue with her not-so-attractive voice.
She tends to accelerate her delivery and speak louder and sterner, Hume said. She has a great asset as a public person, which is a radiant smile, but she has a not so attractive voice, and I think for much of her speech tonight, she lapsed into that familiar lecturing tone. And I suspect that there were some people that, even who agreed with her words, found the tone off-putting.
Steve Clemons, editor-at-large for The Atlantic, also mentioned Clintons lecturing and advised her to smile.
On PBS and NPR, female commentators noted the historical importance and emotional resonance of Clintons speech. Their male counterparts focused on Clintons voice.
I dont know why she cant project more humanity, New York Times columnist David Brooks said on the broadcast. She projects one emotional tone throughout, and it has a combative manner to it, and not a happy warrior manner.
And on Twitter, many political commentators complained about Clintons annoying voice and suggested she calm down.
Apparently, making history as the first female presidential nominee of a major political party doesnt stop sexist attacks.
Sadly, this is nothing new. Clinton received similar criticism in previous speeches and political debates, mostly from men. They claim their critiques arent sexist. But male candidates, like Clintons primary opponent Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) and Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump, rarely receive equivalent scrutiny.
Attacks on the sound of a womans voice often mirror negative perceptions of women as too aggressive and dominant. Meanwhile, when it comes to men, those same qualities and traits are cast as positive attributes.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/complaining-hillary-clintons-voice_us_579add5de4b0693164c0b55c
C_U_L8R
(45,003 posts)Compared to Donnie Trump's incessant whining
AgadorSparticus
(7,963 posts)It just boggles me that the media pundits don't ever talk about Trump's talking style. Like how he annoyingly puckers up his mouth when he talks. ugh.
onecent
(6,096 posts)LOOK IMPORTANT.
Orsino
(37,428 posts)Yeah, the sing-songy thing she does is a little annoying to me, personally, but considering who she most annoys, I'll take it. Fuck 'em, Madame Secretary. Fuck 'em all.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Especially compared to our current president, who is quite masterful in that regard.
emulatorloo
(44,131 posts)marybourg
(12,633 posts)for not wearing a flag lapel pin, his greying hair, his middle name, showing respect to foreign leaders, a fist bump, etc., etc..
While Trump's multitudinous and yuuuge faults are not mentioned. Can you imagine if Hillary had 3 marriages, 2 divorces, a "premature" baby, and talked about men the way he talks about women? They don't like her voice? Who gives a s--t?
frazzled
(18,402 posts)Hello? We're talking about voice quality here, not their speechmaking ability. How does iHillary Clinton's voice compare to Donald Trump's high-pitched screams and taunts (or even to Bernie Sanders's gravelly, breathless rants)?
I've never seen a male candidate's speaking voice criticized (even though I used to find John Edward's oily Southern drawl like erasers on a blackboard to me).
Enough of this mindless carping about her voice. It's a double-standard beyond dignifying.
emulatorloo
(44,131 posts)IMHO Clinton is getting better and better and I think these idiots can't admit that because it threatens their ridiculous narrative.
AgadorSparticus
(7,963 posts)pundits saying anything about him. He can't even make a complete sentence. Hell, he can't even follow through with a thought. And yet, they focus on Hillary. It is sexism at its worst.
Zing Zing Zingbah
(6,496 posts)If they were fair then we'd be hearing lots of criticism of Trump's speaking. He certainly is far worse at it than Hillary.
msongs
(67,413 posts)the softly spoken parts, something most politicians do not do much nt
AgadorSparticus
(7,963 posts)Bill USA
(6,436 posts)NastyRiffraff
(12,448 posts)I thought it was a powerful, thoughtful, at times emotional speech. One of her best. I know she's not the best public speaker in the world, but she's miles better than Trump. Where were these guys when Trump was bloviating speaking?
AgadorSparticus
(7,963 posts)Koinos
(2,792 posts)That's their problem, not Hillary's.
I'm a guy, and I listen to what she has to say. And I like what I hear.
Zing Zing Zingbah
(6,496 posts)not just their voices. They don't like the sound of the voice because they know it comes from a woman. Probably the only female voices they like are the the put on female phone sex voices.
Koinos
(2,792 posts)Sometimes I wonder why so many white males turn out to be aggressive morons. It is due in part to acculturation perhaps.
I say that as a white male who has tried to do and be better.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Everyone agrees with them. It's often shocking for them when someone disagrees with them. That was me last night, lol.
NastyRiffraff
(12,448 posts)It's always good to hear from good, thoughtful men. The blatant sexism we're seeing about a history-making woman is depressing, but guys like you lift our spirits!
DemonGoddess
(4,640 posts)LAS14
(13,783 posts)... me furious with their blind sexism. I'd love to hear an analysis of Bernie's tone of voice, his ability to modulate, etc., etc.
yardwork
(61,650 posts)Some people are still uncomfortable with women in professional or powerful positions. To these folks, women are supposed to have honey sweet, soft low voices used only to comfort children or agree with males.
Shrug.
LiberalFighter
(50,943 posts)I've noticed that public male figures have talked in loud voices and not smile. Including the same media figures.
Equinox Moon
(6,344 posts)Hey I know... how about talking about the issues so important to people in this country?
Well, I guess that would be news reporting with substance.
Thankfully, we have the Internet and can inform ourselves!
DawgHouse
(4,019 posts)It's just another prime example of a very sexist society.
LAS14
(13,783 posts)First off - Pundits have no business focusing on her tone of voice at this sort of historic moment.
But at a different time, when we're discussing this stuff.
She may not have the ability to modulate her tone at a rally, but she has a repertoire of kinds of deliveries. Listen to her at the AME church shortly after one of the mass shootings (
AgadorSparticus
(7,963 posts)voice. It says much about them as pundits. But I would like to see them answer to the sexism.
DemonGoddess
(4,640 posts)enjoy listening to this phenomenal brainy woman speak, and STFU about her voice.
Lefthacker
(264 posts)Hilary's voice is fine. Her speech skills are improving. The real problem is a lot of these so called experts are insecure men that are threatened by a intelligent, successful and powerful women. They can't take it. It drives them crazy how successful Hillary is.
liberal N proud
(60,335 posts)Throd
(7,208 posts)Neither is Trump's.
AgadorSparticus
(7,963 posts)Throd
(7,208 posts)Not everyone is gifted with a good voice, just as not everyone is blessed with good looks or intelligence. That's just reality.
AgadorSparticus
(7,963 posts)about Trump's voice? It's always women's voices that you hear bullshit critiques. That is sexist.
Throd
(7,208 posts)And he's not exactly getting a pass on his ridiculous hair and weird orange pallor.
AgadorSparticus
(7,963 posts)It is everyone else on the internet or social media. If they are, I must have missed it. The pundits on TV barely say anything about his absurdities. For the most part, they give him a pass for outlandish things. But that is a different discussion.
Here's another one:
Fox Host Critiques Elizabeth Warren's Voice As "Grating"
http://mediamatters.org/video/2016/06/28/fox-host-critiques-elizabeth-warrens-voice-grating/211238
spooky3
(34,457 posts)spooky3
(34,457 posts)She would get at least as much flak as Trump does.
The point is to make an apples-to-apples comparison, in this case about voices. Many male candidates have imperfect voices, but the only one I EVER recall being criticized about it was Howard Dean, for the yell over the crowd noise, which is a little different (but also a stupid knock). So 100% of female Dem candidates get the criticism from male (mostly RW) pundits, but only a tiny percentage of men do. That's a problem.
AgadorSparticus
(7,963 posts)mucifer
(23,549 posts)it really bothered me that people on the left made fun of her voice. So much real stuff to go after her on. Why bother with her voice? So childish.
Response to AgadorSparticus (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Thrill
(19,178 posts)Being lectured.
AgadorSparticus
(7,963 posts)Thrill
(19,178 posts)Was lecturing the country
riversedge
(70,242 posts)spooky3
(34,457 posts)AgadorSparticus
(7,963 posts)spooky3
(34,457 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)Not a chance, his idea of humor is a magnifying glass and an ant bed.
Ilsa
(61,695 posts)The republicans need to be more concerned about Trump's delivery and especially content. But let's hope the leadership and handlers are deaf to him.
Ilsa
(61,695 posts)And the same for the pointing and smirking. He displays his arrogance and ignorance every time he takes a stage.
DLCWIdem
(1,580 posts)ZX86
(1,428 posts)But it is also irrelevant. My understanding is that Lincoln's voice was high pitched and shrill.
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)Seriously, if you can stomach it, watch it, especially close to the end.
BlueMTexpat
(15,369 posts)misogyny.
ProudToBeBlueInRhody
(16,399 posts)And yes, Bernie did it too.
A very smart man once said if you lower your voice, you force people to listen more closely. They'll lean in towards the TV if they have to.
Her husband was a master at this, mainly because if he ever yelled, his voice would be gone for three days.
She's much better speaking when sitting at a conference table. More relaxed.
Zing Zing Zingbah
(6,496 posts)Annoying that the commentators act like they are just articulating the thoughts of regular, every day Americans. I think most people don't think this stuff until the commentators bring it up.
I thought her voice was great and she did an awesome job speaking. I am a woman, though, so maybe my opinion on this doesn't count? I suppose I talk like an aggressive, dominant bitch all the time, so Hillary just sound normal to me.
rjsquirrel
(4,762 posts)is the people who don't get why it's misogynist. They don't grasp that a man is almost never criticized for his voice (or clothes or hair or posture). Donald Trump shouts and hectors but no one mentions it -- hell, he shouted his entire convention speech and people called it angry or strong, not "braying" or "unmodulated."
This happens on DU all the time too. Some "just sayin'" male commentator starts off with "imma vote for for her but I still wish she had a different voice." And then when called on the misogyny they get defensive and insist they are just trying to be helpful.
She's made it to be the first woman nominee of a major party with her own voice. It's music to my ears that she speaks forcefully and strongly.
As with everything else about this election season and our own primaries, the misogynistic subtext is obvious to many of us even when it's coming from our own side. Heck, I do not believe a male candidate who won by hundreds of delegates and millions of votes would ever have faced the raucous shouting down and misbehavior of his defeated opponent's most vehement supporters the way she did in Philly. That disrespect was because she dared to win as a woman.
And now she's up against an opponent who makes misogyny his goddamn brand. Get woke people. They hate her BECAUSE SHE IS A STRONG WOMAN.
AgadorSparticus
(7,963 posts)Don't see the sexism in their statements. It shows just how deeply rooted it is in our society. I hope it becomes a subject that is front and center and I hope we continue talking about it.
I read somewhere that this African American campaign official (maybe it was Bernie's staffer?) that she deals more with the sexism than she does being black. I found that interesting. We just need to bring more awareness to these social issues.
rjsquirrel
(4,762 posts)Nicely said too.
jcgoldie
(11,631 posts)The "voice" critiques are just the most subtle way of saying it bothers me that she's a woman who doesn't know her role.
hamsterjill
(15,222 posts)Let's call shallow shallow. It's absurd that this kind of shit is discussed on the airwaves.
What next? Her pants were too tight? Too baggy? She has a little gray hair?
She fucking made history!!!!!!! And no pundit would be saying stuff like that about a man.