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Are the third party candidates going (Original Post) helpisontheway Jul 2016 OP
They won't get more than 2% total. tonyt53 Jul 2016 #1
Johnson might do better than that bc Trump is so awful auntpurl Jul 2016 #4
They will only be on the ballot in some of the states, John Poet Jul 2016 #2
I think Johnson is on in all 50 states, and Stein only 20. auntpurl Jul 2016 #3
No Demsrule86 Jul 2016 #5
Greens only work hard enough to keep their status quo Maru Kitteh Jul 2016 #24
Very true that. nt. Demsrule86 Jul 2016 #31
You do understand that there is no constitutional basis for the two party system, right? Warren Stupidity Jul 2016 #6
Depending upon the state, there will me more than 2, 3, 4, or 5 people to vote for. tonyt53 Jul 2016 #7
Rather not have the House of Representatives decide every election, thanks. auntpurl Jul 2016 #8
maybe we could have just one party and eliminate all the risk. Warren Stupidity Jul 2016 #13
Exactly. WheelWalker Jul 2016 #27
Do you have any idea how many "parties" would like to have their place thucythucy Jul 2016 #14
Regulations and regulators are slanted toward maintaining the duopoly, not toward fair access. Warren Stupidity Jul 2016 #16
I think your second paragraph thucythucy Jul 2016 #17
1,796 candidates would make for a VERY unweildy ballot. Maru Kitteh Jul 2016 #22
Agreed! GreenPartyVoter Jul 2016 #30
You do know that each individual state runs its own stopbush Jul 2016 #26
Look at Europe with their multiple parties. Demsrule86 Jul 2016 #32
many of their conservative governments are to the left of the democratic party here. Warren Stupidity Jul 2016 #35
Really? Demsrule86 Jul 2016 #36
I'm considering putting out Johnson signs ... relayerbob Jul 2016 #9
Talk to your neighbors about Darrell Castle oberliner Jul 2016 #12
They can vote ... relayerbob Jul 2016 #18
Do you think Georgia might go for Clinton? oberliner Jul 2016 #20
It's possible relayerbob Jul 2016 #23
Awesome! leftofcool Jul 2016 #29
Hillary was down by only 2 points in some polls in Georgia Demsrule86 Jul 2016 #33
Third party candidates have every right to do as they wish... NCTraveler Jul 2016 #10
Jill Stein is only on the ballot in 23 states (including DC) oberliner Jul 2016 #11
I hope they're on every ballot bigwillq Jul 2016 #15
Of course you do. Maru Kitteh Jul 2016 #21
I would never want to see Greens on any ballot...sorry. nt Demsrule86 Jul 2016 #34
NO, they will not be on a great number of states ballots. Maru Kitteh Jul 2016 #19
Johnson GulfCoast66 Jul 2016 #25
I think Johnson will take votes from Trump, but those that vote for Stein would have never voted for still_one Jul 2016 #28
 

John Poet

(2,510 posts)
2. They will only be on the ballot in some of the states,
Fri Jul 29, 2016, 04:54 PM
Jul 2016

where their party has earned or will earn ballot access. The requirements are different in every state.

auntpurl

(4,311 posts)
3. I think Johnson is on in all 50 states, and Stein only 20.
Fri Jul 29, 2016, 04:55 PM
Jul 2016

Johnson will take votes from Trump, Stein from Hillary. Johnson might do better than usual because Trump is such a nightmare. Stein will not break 2%, I wouldn't have thought. She is an anti-vaxx nutter.

Demsrule86

(68,656 posts)
5. No
Fri Jul 29, 2016, 04:59 PM
Jul 2016

Last edited Fri Jul 29, 2016, 05:37 PM - Edit history (1)

Only libertarians are on all the ballots...Greens are too lazy to do the hard work that would be required and since their's is a spoiler campaign...they concentrate on important states to Dems.

Maru Kitteh

(28,342 posts)
24. Greens only work hard enough to keep their status quo
Sat Jul 30, 2016, 12:00 AM
Jul 2016

Fleece just enough children, malcontents and kooks to pay a salary to their quadrennial show pony and keep a small staff of wanna-be spoilers on hand.



 

Warren Stupidity

(48,181 posts)
6. You do understand that there is no constitutional basis for the two party system, right?
Fri Jul 29, 2016, 05:06 PM
Jul 2016

All political parties should have ballot access. Our elections should not be a private club run by two private organizations for their own benefit.

 

tonyt53

(5,737 posts)
7. Depending upon the state, there will me more than 2, 3, 4, or 5 people to vote for.
Fri Jul 29, 2016, 05:20 PM
Jul 2016

Each state has a filing fee.

thucythucy

(8,086 posts)
14. Do you have any idea how many "parties" would like to have their place
Fri Jul 29, 2016, 06:31 PM
Jul 2016

on the ballots?

There are hundreds of hucksters, con artists, and some out and out psychotics who would love to be on every ballot, as head of their own "party." Plus there are at least a couple of hundred fringe parties on the left and the right and many spots not on the political spectrum at all. The Socialist Workers Party has maybe 1500 members tops, nationwide. Should they be on the ballot? Workers World? The Spartacis League? Revolutionary Communist Youth? The Aryan Nations? The League of Thor? The Fourth International Tendency? The White People's Party? The Constitution Party? They should ALL be on the ballot in every state? God knows how much this would cost, and how long each ballot would have to be.

Personally, I see no problem with there being a certain minimum threshold to reach for any party or candidate that would like to be on the ballot, which is what most states do. Say, five thousand signatures, or in a larger state, ten or fifteen thousand registered voters willing to sign on to the filing papers. Enough anyway so that a candidate or party has to have some genuine support among some reasonable but not insubstantial segment of registered voters, so as to demonstrate a serious intent to run an actual campaign.

There's a candidate used to run for president every election cycle, sometimes as a Democrat, but sometimes as an independent. The central plank of his campaign was to build a thousand clipper sailing ships as a way to get to full employment in the lumber industry. Actually, I think he mostly did it to advertise his self-published poetry books. Should the Michael Levinson Party be on the ballot in all fifty states?


 

Warren Stupidity

(48,181 posts)
16. Regulations and regulators are slanted toward maintaining the duopoly, not toward fair access.
Fri Jul 29, 2016, 07:22 PM
Jul 2016

I think, oddly enough, that the voters ought to be able to choose from among all candidates from all parties, instead of you or me deciding which political viewpoints are unacceptable. If there is a threshold requirement for ballot access it ought to be uniform across all states, it ought to be easy for any serious candidate or party to meet, and the regulators cannot be partisan political hacks. Our election processes are an embarrassment of corruption chicanery and malfeasance.

But the duopoly control of ballot access is only a small part of the problem. We also need to end first past the poll plurality elections, we need to abolish the electoral college, we need to end partisan gerrymandering, we need to get the f'ing money out of the system, and we need to guarantee that every adult citizen has both the right to vote and the opportunity to do so.

thucythucy

(8,086 posts)
17. I think your second paragraph
Fri Jul 29, 2016, 08:09 PM
Jul 2016

has to happen first, and would be genuine reform tending towards a truer democracy than the shambles we have at present. If that were to happen, the two party system would fall on its own.

But I think, given our constitution, that the development of a two party system is actually pretty organic, and is as democratic a system as possible without seriously amending the constitution along the lines you suggest in your second graph. Two parties (generally) means the candidates with the most votes wins (except when the Supreme Court intervenes). Under the current system, all a third party would do is siphon votes away from that party most closely aligned with it ideologically. Thus, a minority ideology could well dominate the government indefinitely, and elections would not represent anything resembling a majority viewpoint. Or I should say would be even worse than what we have now. Add in fourth, fifth, sixth parties, and the possible permutations get me dizzy.

The US Constitution was state of the art politics--in 1789. Since then I think we've made significant progress in political science, as in all science. A system of electoral run-offs, or a representative parliamentary system, would be much more democratic. But worship of the current constitution is as deeply bred into the American electorate as any other form of religion. And anyway, anything like a new constitutional convention, given the current realities of our politics, would most likely end in a clusterfuck of epic proportions.

So we deal with what we have. If Clinton is elected I think she'll appoint justices who will reverse Citizens United, which was a horrid decision without legal precedent. That would be an enormous help. Overturning the decision that gutted the Voting Rights Act would be another great thing.

Federalizing elections would be another good step--making requirements for ballot access and registration equal across the board. I'd also love to see us do what they do in several European countries--declare election day a national holiday so working people have an equal chance to vote, or even expand election day to encompass a full three days, for the same effect.

The first Tuesday in November is another holdover from the 1780s--when voting in November made sense in a society where the vast majority of voters lived on farms and were busy with the harvest until winter weather set in, and took a full day or more to reach a polling place. (Couldn't travel on Sunday--blue laws--had to leave Monday morning at the earliest). The point is, the November date was set to enable MORE people to vote, whereas now it acts to keep people who work 9 to 5 on Tuesdays away.

Just as an aside: Trump scares the shit out of me.

Best wishes.

Maru Kitteh

(28,342 posts)
22. 1,796 candidates would make for a VERY unweildy ballot.
Fri Jul 29, 2016, 11:44 PM
Jul 2016

Don't think my mom could even lift that ballot to get it into the box - er semi trailer that would be required.

stopbush

(24,396 posts)
26. You do know that each individual state runs its own
Sat Jul 30, 2016, 12:18 AM
Jul 2016

presidential election, do you not?

The political parties have nothing to do with setting the bar for what is required to get on a state ballot.

Demsrule86

(68,656 posts)
32. Look at Europe with their multiple parties.
Sat Jul 30, 2016, 07:49 AM
Jul 2016

Many have conservative governments elected by a minority of voters.

 

Warren Stupidity

(48,181 posts)
35. many of their conservative governments are to the left of the democratic party here.
Sat Jul 30, 2016, 08:02 AM
Jul 2016

And government is typically by coalition, not by one party. The UK of course also suffers from a FPP plurality system, and has a similar, although not as intractable, duopoly problem.

Demsrule86

(68,656 posts)
36. Really?
Sat Jul 30, 2016, 12:39 PM
Jul 2016

Consider Great Britain which followed our Conservative's lead with banking and education...in fact, it is worse because they did not have a stimulus, and the country is still hurting from 08. They have also undermined, healthcare, pensions,support for the poor and a number of other things. These countries are run in many cases, by a conservative minority...no thanks. I will stick with our system. If we get rid of the filibuster we would be fine and of course the gerrymander.

relayerbob

(6,553 posts)
9. I'm considering putting out Johnson signs ...
Fri Jul 29, 2016, 05:25 PM
Jul 2016

... to try to convince my Georgia conservative neighbors to jump ship. They won't go to Hillary, but we can sure try to deflate Trump's numbers


relayerbob

(6,553 posts)
18. They can vote ...
Fri Jul 29, 2016, 11:33 PM
Jul 2016

for Mickey Mouse as long as they don't vote for Trump, :-D

Spiit that vote! Split that vote!

relayerbob

(6,553 posts)
23. It's possible
Fri Jul 29, 2016, 11:58 PM
Jul 2016

The latest poll showed them within a point (margin of error) with Johnson in third and a small percent for Green. GOTV will be a huge issue, and if the GOP splits, then there is a good chance. There are alot of people who identify as LIbertarians, but voted GOP

Not really going to hold my breath but I'm going to try to help turn us blue!!

Demsrule86

(68,656 posts)
33. Hillary was down by only 2 points in some polls in Georgia
Sat Jul 30, 2016, 07:50 AM
Jul 2016

She might have a shot in Georgia. Obama who never set a foot in Georgia was close in 12.

 

NCTraveler

(30,481 posts)
10. Third party candidates have every right to do as they wish...
Fri Jul 29, 2016, 05:27 PM
Jul 2016

And they should. I hope you get an informed answer as to how they get on the ballot but I find the general direction you are going to be highly questionable. The Green Party is significant in the fact the Democratic Party holds just far enough left to keep them marginalized.

Maru Kitteh

(28,342 posts)
21. Of course you do.
Fri Jul 29, 2016, 11:41 PM
Jul 2016

But they won't. Because every lunatic, crank and idiot that runs for President doesn't deserve a spot on the ballot.

https://ballotpedia.org/Presidential_candidates,_2016
As of July 15, 2016, a total of 1,796 candidates had filed a Statement of Candidacy with the Federal Election Commission.

GulfCoast66

(11,949 posts)
25. Johnson
Sat Jul 30, 2016, 12:13 AM
Jul 2016

Will really hurt Trump in the west and Mormon states.

Stein...did someone hear that buzzing? Irrelevant.

still_one

(92,375 posts)
28. I think Johnson will take votes from Trump, but those that vote for Stein would have never voted for
Sat Jul 30, 2016, 12:30 AM
Jul 2016

Hillary anyway, so there is nothing to take away

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