2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumAre the third party candidates going
to be on all of the ballots. Do they have to get a certain amount of signatures or something? We don't need them taking votes from Hillary.
tonyt53
(5,737 posts)auntpurl
(4,311 posts)but that only helps us.
John Poet
(2,510 posts)where their party has earned or will earn ballot access. The requirements are different in every state.
auntpurl
(4,311 posts)Johnson will take votes from Trump, Stein from Hillary. Johnson might do better than usual because Trump is such a nightmare. Stein will not break 2%, I wouldn't have thought. She is an anti-vaxx nutter.
Demsrule86
(68,656 posts)Last edited Fri Jul 29, 2016, 05:37 PM - Edit history (1)
Only libertarians are on all the ballots...Greens are too lazy to do the hard work that would be required and since their's is a spoiler campaign...they concentrate on important states to Dems.
Maru Kitteh
(28,342 posts)Fleece just enough children, malcontents and kooks to pay a salary to their quadrennial show pony and keep a small staff of wanna-be spoilers on hand.
Demsrule86
(68,656 posts)Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)All political parties should have ballot access. Our elections should not be a private club run by two private organizations for their own benefit.
tonyt53
(5,737 posts)Each state has a filing fee.
auntpurl
(4,311 posts)Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)WheelWalker
(8,956 posts)thucythucy
(8,086 posts)on the ballots?
There are hundreds of hucksters, con artists, and some out and out psychotics who would love to be on every ballot, as head of their own "party." Plus there are at least a couple of hundred fringe parties on the left and the right and many spots not on the political spectrum at all. The Socialist Workers Party has maybe 1500 members tops, nationwide. Should they be on the ballot? Workers World? The Spartacis League? Revolutionary Communist Youth? The Aryan Nations? The League of Thor? The Fourth International Tendency? The White People's Party? The Constitution Party? They should ALL be on the ballot in every state? God knows how much this would cost, and how long each ballot would have to be.
Personally, I see no problem with there being a certain minimum threshold to reach for any party or candidate that would like to be on the ballot, which is what most states do. Say, five thousand signatures, or in a larger state, ten or fifteen thousand registered voters willing to sign on to the filing papers. Enough anyway so that a candidate or party has to have some genuine support among some reasonable but not insubstantial segment of registered voters, so as to demonstrate a serious intent to run an actual campaign.
There's a candidate used to run for president every election cycle, sometimes as a Democrat, but sometimes as an independent. The central plank of his campaign was to build a thousand clipper sailing ships as a way to get to full employment in the lumber industry. Actually, I think he mostly did it to advertise his self-published poetry books. Should the Michael Levinson Party be on the ballot in all fifty states?
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)I think, oddly enough, that the voters ought to be able to choose from among all candidates from all parties, instead of you or me deciding which political viewpoints are unacceptable. If there is a threshold requirement for ballot access it ought to be uniform across all states, it ought to be easy for any serious candidate or party to meet, and the regulators cannot be partisan political hacks. Our election processes are an embarrassment of corruption chicanery and malfeasance.
But the duopoly control of ballot access is only a small part of the problem. We also need to end first past the poll plurality elections, we need to abolish the electoral college, we need to end partisan gerrymandering, we need to get the f'ing money out of the system, and we need to guarantee that every adult citizen has both the right to vote and the opportunity to do so.
thucythucy
(8,086 posts)has to happen first, and would be genuine reform tending towards a truer democracy than the shambles we have at present. If that were to happen, the two party system would fall on its own.
But I think, given our constitution, that the development of a two party system is actually pretty organic, and is as democratic a system as possible without seriously amending the constitution along the lines you suggest in your second graph. Two parties (generally) means the candidates with the most votes wins (except when the Supreme Court intervenes). Under the current system, all a third party would do is siphon votes away from that party most closely aligned with it ideologically. Thus, a minority ideology could well dominate the government indefinitely, and elections would not represent anything resembling a majority viewpoint. Or I should say would be even worse than what we have now. Add in fourth, fifth, sixth parties, and the possible permutations get me dizzy.
The US Constitution was state of the art politics--in 1789. Since then I think we've made significant progress in political science, as in all science. A system of electoral run-offs, or a representative parliamentary system, would be much more democratic. But worship of the current constitution is as deeply bred into the American electorate as any other form of religion. And anyway, anything like a new constitutional convention, given the current realities of our politics, would most likely end in a clusterfuck of epic proportions.
So we deal with what we have. If Clinton is elected I think she'll appoint justices who will reverse Citizens United, which was a horrid decision without legal precedent. That would be an enormous help. Overturning the decision that gutted the Voting Rights Act would be another great thing.
Federalizing elections would be another good step--making requirements for ballot access and registration equal across the board. I'd also love to see us do what they do in several European countries--declare election day a national holiday so working people have an equal chance to vote, or even expand election day to encompass a full three days, for the same effect.
The first Tuesday in November is another holdover from the 1780s--when voting in November made sense in a society where the vast majority of voters lived on farms and were busy with the harvest until winter weather set in, and took a full day or more to reach a polling place. (Couldn't travel on Sunday--blue laws--had to leave Monday morning at the earliest). The point is, the November date was set to enable MORE people to vote, whereas now it acts to keep people who work 9 to 5 on Tuesdays away.
Just as an aside: Trump scares the shit out of me.
Best wishes.
Maru Kitteh
(28,342 posts)Don't think my mom could even lift that ballot to get it into the box - er semi trailer that would be required.
GreenPartyVoter
(72,381 posts)stopbush
(24,396 posts)presidential election, do you not?
The political parties have nothing to do with setting the bar for what is required to get on a state ballot.
Demsrule86
(68,656 posts)Many have conservative governments elected by a minority of voters.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)And government is typically by coalition, not by one party. The UK of course also suffers from a FPP plurality system, and has a similar, although not as intractable, duopoly problem.
Demsrule86
(68,656 posts)Consider Great Britain which followed our Conservative's lead with banking and education...in fact, it is worse because they did not have a stimulus, and the country is still hurting from 08. They have also undermined, healthcare, pensions,support for the poor and a number of other things. These countries are run in many cases, by a conservative minority...no thanks. I will stick with our system. If we get rid of the filibuster we would be fine and of course the gerrymander.
relayerbob
(6,553 posts)... to try to convince my Georgia conservative neighbors to jump ship. They won't go to Hillary, but we can sure try to deflate Trump's numbers
oberliner
(58,724 posts)And the Constitution Party!
relayerbob
(6,553 posts)for Mickey Mouse as long as they don't vote for Trump, :-D
Spiit that vote! Split that vote!
oberliner
(58,724 posts)That would be something!
relayerbob
(6,553 posts)The latest poll showed them within a point (margin of error) with Johnson in third and a small percent for Green. GOTV will be a huge issue, and if the GOP splits, then there is a good chance. There are alot of people who identify as LIbertarians, but voted GOP
Not really going to hold my breath but I'm going to try to help turn us blue!!
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)Demsrule86
(68,656 posts)She might have a shot in Georgia. Obama who never set a foot in Georgia was close in 12.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)And they should. I hope you get an informed answer as to how they get on the ballot but I find the general direction you are going to be highly questionable. The Green Party is significant in the fact the Democratic Party holds just far enough left to keep them marginalized.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)Gary Johnson is on all 50.
bigwillq
(72,790 posts)It's the democratic way.
Maru Kitteh
(28,342 posts)But they won't. Because every lunatic, crank and idiot that runs for President doesn't deserve a spot on the ballot.
https://ballotpedia.org/Presidential_candidates,_2016
As of July 15, 2016, a total of 1,796 candidates had filed a Statement of Candidacy with the Federal Election Commission.
Demsrule86
(68,656 posts)Maru Kitteh
(28,342 posts)GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)Will really hurt Trump in the west and Mormon states.
Stein...did someone hear that buzzing? Irrelevant.
still_one
(92,375 posts)Hillary anyway, so there is nothing to take away