I know many of you have said this already but I am truly sad and angry (Cummings)

[Happyhippychick]

I live in Maryland but even if I didn't, that man is a national hero. To think that anyone would say a disrespectful syllable in his presence makes me furious. I am disgusted with the tea party lefties, many of them young with white skin, would dare to challenge this man who has struggled in ways that THEY CANNOT IMAGINE. Disgusting. You are disgusting. You are disgraceful. How dare you.

[bigwillq]

1. I will not condone or object to anyone's behavior

But I am glad we live in a country where we could boo or cheer as we choose.

[NCTraveler]

4. Hop off the fence.

We condone and object to behavior regularly. You do it yourself regularly.

They also don't have the right to boo and cheer as they choose. That is not a right. Some will find out the hard way as they might not be allowed back and alternates might be brought in.

They are a group of dolts protesting a civil rights leader. Truly Trumpworthy.

[pangaia]

36. It is very much a right.

[NCTraveler]

68. No, it is not. In any way. nt.

[pangaia]

75. yes it is.

There, see how that works?

You and I may or may not like it, and they may or may not be acting rudely, but-- they DO have a right to do it.

[NCTraveler]

78. No, they do not. You are poorly informed as to rights.

People do not have the right to be pieces of shit at a private event in a private building. They can do it but it is not a right. The event does have the right to throw them out on their asses. That is a right. The pieces of shit can boo a civil rights leader all they want but at this venue it is not a right.

[pangaia]

79. It may or may not BE right,

but it IS their right to do it.

[NCTraveler]

82. .

They can be blocked from entering the building today if only one of two groups wants them to be.

Serious lack of understanding with respect to rights. We should just send them to your living room to exercise their rights.

[pnwmom]

91. Sure. And Americans have the "right" not to object to the monstrous statements coming out of Trump's

mouth.

That doesn't mean that staying silent is the right decision.

[pangaia]

94. I didn't say it was the right decision.... or the wrong decision.

[pnwmom]

97. Yup. And that is telling. n/t

[pangaia]

98. No. It doesn't tell anything.

[Florencenj2point0]

93. It is a right, and so it is my right to say

they are childish disrespectful asshole who do not deserve to be there.

[pangaia]

95. Yes, you may say whatever you wish...

[AllyCat]

41. It is a right.

If you disagree, you might find Scott Walker's actions in Wisconsin more palatable.

[NCTraveler]

69. No, it is not a right.

The lack of understanding about what rights are is frightening.

[Stonepounder]

76. Unfortunately the vast majority of Americans do not understand their 'rights'.

First of all there are no 'unlimited' rights. Freedom of Speech is a classic example. FoS is actually fairly limited. First, it only applies in public spaces. Us old farts can remember the big battle with the Hari Krishnas over what constitutes a 'public space'. Second you are limited in what you can say. You cannot 'incite violence' or 'incite a riot' - the classic being you cannot yell 'fire' in a crowded theatre if there isn't one. You cannot advocate the violent overthrow of the government. And, there may be consequences for your 'free speech'. You don't believe me? Try cussing out your boss. You won't get arrested, but you may get fired.

The DNC is most certainly NOT a 'public space'. Thus, FoS does NOT apply. The folk running the convention have an absolute 'right' to toss you out if they so choose and you would have absolutely NO recourse.

So, don't go talking about your 'inalienable right' to BOO whenever you choose in a non-public arena.

Just sayin'

[NCTraveler]

80. +1

Frightening how some understand these things. It really isn't that complicated.

[reign88]

66. It seems to me

you only think it's a right based on who is being protested against?

That's dangerous thinking.

[NCTraveler]

71. That is something I never said or insinuated. At all.

Well done. This has nothing to do with rights. Period.

[reign88]

72. You are upset about a disruption

I doubt you are as upset, or upset at all, when it happens to those you don't support. That's all I was pointing out.

There are plenty of times private and public events alike are disrupted by protests. Heck, an entire Trump rally was shutdown at one point over concerns of violence.

I wonder where you stood on that? Maybe you were as opposed to that behavior just as you are this, and if so, kudos to you.

Quite frankly I don't like it when it happens anywhere. It doesn't draw anyone to your cause who wasn't basically already there, and it scares away those that are just trying to listen to the actual message you're trying to get across.

Eh...I digress though. Sorry, I think I might just be a little politic'ed out.

[sufrommich]

6. We live in a country where the Klan is free to march too.

That doesn't mean they aren't assholes.

[Cryptoad]

51. this plus a gillion

[Sheepshank]

53. Perfect!

[all american girl]

54. +1000

[Hekate]

56. +1001

[treestar]

73. [phone]

Well, exactly.

[pnwmom]

89. In this case, making the statement you have is a way of condoning the behavior.

You chose to put your voice out there announcing that you won't object to their behavior.

[riversedge]

96. 'rights' need to be balanced with respect. Time and place to exercise 'rights' should

be taken into consideration. It was shameful what they did to Rep. Cummings.

[bluedye33139]

2. Congressional Black Caucus

I wonder if the diehard tea party kids are responding hatefully because of the support Hillary Clinton received from the Congressional Black Caucus? That, plus ignorance, could explain it.

[rjsquirrel]

3. I was spitting mad

And I still am, at the disrespect shown to Rep. Cummings, a heroic Titan of our party, and to other speakers of color and women speakers. Mostly as far as I could tell by a handful of young white men who very clearly yearn for attention more than for social and economic justice.

I know these people from a lifetime spent in close proximity to the campus left. They couldnt be bothered to register a voter or knock on a door but they will pontificate and preach all day long.

Hillary is smart to do her best to rein them in and then focus on winning the center of the electorate. The "progressive" holdouts were never going to vote for her anyway.

[iandhr]

19. I know exactly what you mean by the "campus left"

I graduated from college in 2011. I used to be like those people before I got to college. But when I saw what they actually stood for I matured pretty quickly.


I am now just a Progressive Democrat who has a healthy pragmatic side. If I get 80% of what I want, I know I don't throw a tantrum and cry sellout. Getting 80% of what you want is cause for an end zone dance.

[rjsquirrel]

27. Right on

I've been a college professor for 30+ years. I've seen generations of young people encounter leftist theory ("get woke" they now say, as if they invented it). An initial rush of messianic righteousness usually gets tempered by real world experience over time. But some -- especially white straight men -- hit their peak as svengalis of righteous outrage (this is true on the campus far right as well). I honestly believe it is as much about getting young women to like them as it is about seeking social justice, it's masculine display of emotion and passion. It damn near sank Occupy Wall Street too. It's a path to attention and power and self-justification for people who are too narcissistic and attention-needy to be trusted with power in any actual political action or struggle or movement. It's also appealing to mediocre men looking for excuses for their own failures in life.

[pangaia]

37. The fucking hippies were right.

[rjsquirrel]

38. I was one

And it's more complicated than that.

[pangaia]

39. Everything is more complicated than 'that.'

[rjsquirrel]

40. Meaning "they were right"

We were right.

It's not 1968 anymore.

[Scruffy1]

63. I've seen the same thing for fifty years.

I have to agree with you about the about their narcissism. Most of the the leftist groups are simply cults created to satisfy their leaders need for power. I see the same thing in some of the BLM groups. The real problem I have with them is that they have no pragmatic, doable solutions. They also are generally closed minded and believe that they have the only answer. While I've always been an anti-capitalist to a large degree I shudder to think what it would be like if some of these people were in power. Meet the new boss, worse than the old boss.

[rjsquirrel]

64. Exactly

Never trust anyone who claims to have all the answers.

[reign88]

67. South Park did a hilarious few episodes

on what you are talking about. Particularly the getting young women to like them part.

[iandhr]

84. Fuck off. Judean People's Front?

We're the People's Front of Judea

[rjsquirrel]

85. Exactly!!!

[wryter2000]

86. Wish I could rec a reply

What you said

[rjsquirrel]

88. Thank you!

Much appreciated.

[NaturalHigh]

5. Nobody should "say a disrespectful syllable in his presence"?

That's going a bit far. Freedom of speech and all that. Nobody has the right to not be heckled by opponents, privilege or not.

[Happyhippychick]

9. I stand by it. Freedom of speech has zero to do with it, you can disagree and be respectful

[NaturalHigh]

10. Yes, you can, but you don't HAVE to. That's my point, and I stand by that.

Like I said, free speech and all that.

[Happyhippychick]

13. Yes free speech = disrespect to you, not me. Apples and oranges ya know.

[NaturalHigh]

14. Sorry, I don't even know what that's supposed to mean.

[Happyhippychick]

26. Let me try again.

Free speech is one issue.
Disrespect is another issue.

One has absolutely nothing to do with the other. Apples and oranges.

[rjsquirrel]

30. Elijah Cummings

has a right not to be heckled in a Democratic Party event. He's not running for office. He owns his damn office. He's an elder and a hero. He deserves complete respect in this setting, in my opinion.

People who confuse disrespect with debate should not be in our party.

[groundloop]

60. "Confuseuse disrespect with debate" - THAT is exactly the issue here

FREE SPEECH is about the right to debate ideas which may not be popular with others. IMO those hecklers were merely trying to draw attention to themselves as opposed to any ideas or beliefs which they felt were worthy of debate. They were self serving assholes and should have been ushered out immediately.

[treestar]

74. It's not about freedom of speech

They have it and they used it. But that doesn't mean they cannot be opposed or subjected to criticism for what they said. No one said they had no legal right to say it. They said that it was rude and disrespectful.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

92. You are right.

[Zambero]

7. That display was very disrespectful to say the least

Cummings has paid his dues and painfully so in behalf of advancing the cause of human rights. The spoiled children who tried to shout him down did not help their cause. Cummings deserves a whole lot better.

[B Calm]

8. Democracy can look ugly, but that's the beauty of the USA.

[NaturalHigh]

11. Agreed.

[Frances]

15. I can't abide rudeness

(from Lonesome Dove)

If Trump is elected President, the guys who were so rude to Cummings will probably go along with Trump because they won't be brave enough to stand up to a dictator.

They remind me of the people who protested against the Vietnam War because they didn't want to get hurt themselves, and then once they were safely off the hook, voted for Reagan and ushered in a repressive economic era for middle class voters.

[workinclasszero]

47. I will always bitterly remember this betrayal

"They remind me of the people who protested against the Vietnam War because they didn't want to get hurt themselves, and then once they were safely off the hook, voted for Reagan and ushered in a repressive economic era for middle class voters."

[calimary]

50. DAYUM, does that ever nail it.

I'll never forget it, either. Total betrayal.

[groundloop]

62. Can you say Ted Nugent

He took extraordinary measures to avoid going to war, but once he safely escaped that he became just another right wing shill.

[geek tragedy]

16. was that your reaction to Joe Wilson yelling "You lie!" at Obama?

Because that's pretty much the same dynamic as what happened last night, except instead of regular Tea it was Green Tea responsible.

[B Calm]

17. Was Joe Wilson at the Democratic convention when he yelled?

[geek tragedy]

20. Does that matter?

Lemme answer that---no.

The little Joe Wilsons in attendance last night made the exact same impression that he did.

Not a good look.

Free expression is part of democracy, and part of that free expression is for people to accurately characterize the Green Tea children throwing their pathetic little temper tantrums yesterday.

After that, the Green Tea hecklers can go back to their parents' basement and resume their normal mode of 'activism'--harassing women and POC on Twitter.

[B Calm]

22. Yes

[geek tragedy]

23. We disagree.

In any event, I hope the Green Tea hecklers spend all day outside enjoying the glorious Philadelphia summer weather.

[B Calm]

24. Yep, we disagree!

[Bobbie Jo]

18. That wasn't "Democracy"

It was a temper tantrum.

The primary process was democracy. We elected a nominee - THAT was democracy.

The interruption and heckling of a civil rights icon was nothing but pure petulance and disrespect for the outcome of the DEMOCRATIC process.

[B Calm]

21. Oh, but it was!

[geek tragedy]

25. So was Joe Wilson heckling President Obama then.,

You really can't excuse this behavior from white privileged Green Tea punks and then object to it when Republican white privileged Tea punks do it.

Democrats have enemies on the left as well as the right, and sadly some of those enemies got behind our lines last night.

They belong at the fart-in, not the convention.

[B Calm]

28. Joe was heckling.

[geek tragedy]

31. so were the Green Tea crowd last night. nt

[B Calm]

32. Nope

[geek tragedy]

33. so it's only heckling if people you dislike are doing it? nt

[B Calm]

35. Nope

[apcalc]

29. +1

[rjsquirrel]

34. Not in this case

Debate and disagreement are fine. Disrespect hiding behind overtly racist privilege is not democracy.

Those white men tried shouting down every speaker of color before Michelle Obama took the stage. And most women. That is not rambunctious democracy. That's racism and misogyny.

The Democratic convention is a private event. Despite being part of an election process and federally regulated as such, it is not a government event or a public space. This is not about free speech.

[alcibiades_mystery]

12. One can moon the priest during Midnight Mass, bring an "Oswald 4Evah" sign to the eternal flame

Spit peanut shells and make fart noises while sitting on one's ass during the national anthem at a baseball game.

One CAN do all those things. It doesn't mean one should.

The clearest sign of an immature asshole is that he or she doesn't understand the difference between prohibition and decorum. One is free to do most anything. It is social GRACE that prevents it, and that is what the asshole protesters at the DNC lacked completely (I won't call them Sanders supporters anymore, as he's given them a roadmap for GRACE which they've rejected in favor of assholery, and the vast, vast, vast majority of Sanders supporters are following his lead).

[AllyCat]

42. This one included.

You are right. No grace at all. They yelled during every speaker. Every single one. They have a right, but no grace.

[KitSileya]

48. So very true. Great post.

And you're right about them no longer caring about ( or respecting) Sanders. Everyone who talks on this thread and others about how what they do is protesting, has no clue. You can protest without disrespecting. They're like the Westboro klan; maybe not as egregious, but on that side of the continuum.

[DemonGoddess]

43. K&R!

Thank you.

[jalan48]

44. I don't believe in the deification of politicians. Millions of Americans of all races struggle.

It's a political convention. Telling delegates how they can/should act sounds like something Republican's would do. Don't take it so personally.

[Blue Idaho]

45. We will know them by their works.

They may be judging themselves by their intentions but the rest of the world is judging them by their actions.

This was a net negative for the Bernie or Bust "movement."

[Uponthegears]

46. Could someone here help me?

I'm looking for a string where the OP uses the ridiculous behavior of a handful of immature yahoos (or is it Houyhnhnms, I can never keep them straight) and uses their behavior as justification for rejecting "leftist" policies (from standing AGAINST the TPP to standing FOR Michael Brown) and for urging others to do the same.

I am tired of talking about real issues and if someone has a good straw man that will help me avoid doing that, it would be much appreciated.

This party has come together to defeat Trump and put Hillary Rodham Clinton into the White House AND to take back BOTH chambers of Congress.

Join us.

UNITE

[MellowDem]

70. Your bigotry stinks to high heaven

[Sheepshank]

52. The thing that frustrated me is that Cummings and several others had a message

a varied and well thought out message to inspire those to help defeat Trump.. The BoB'ers decided to drown out that message and chant the same crap over and over. Seriously, I got it the first 25 times. I just wished they gave as much respect as they were demanding.

[Politicub]

55. The attempt at demoralizing failed

Even though Cummings outshined the protesters, interrupting him was rude and uncalled for.

The chants removed the masks from the protesters' faces and revealed their true agenda - demoralizing voters.

They failed and blunted their influence in the process.

[shireen]

57. what happened?

I'm in MD too and I adore Cummings. Did the idiots boo at him? I tell ya ... if i had been on the floor I would have hit them. Elijah Cummings is a national treasure.

[all american girl]

58. Here was a man telling the story of his life, his father's life...talking about BLM, voting rights,

women's rights. This is a man who grew up with white people spitting on him because of the color of his skin. A man who helped change our country, for the better. And this wonderful man, who has more integrity in his little finger, had to put up with white people spitting on him again. Unbelievable. I'm ashamed to be white, again. Those people don't speak for me...and yes, I haven't got over my anger from last night.

[Sheepshank]

59. Since I didn't get to hear much of Cummings ideas and thoughts

....I wonder if there was any room in the Convention timetable to allow him a do over?

[nolabear]

61. And their howls had nothing to do with what he was saying. They were just demanding children.

"No TPP"? Seriously?

[TomCADem]

81. How do you know? Maybe The Were Anti-BLM

...the RW media has been pushing the meme that BLM activists are terrorists, and they were disrupting Rep Cummings speech.

[c-ville rook]

65. While the vitriol was certainly unnecessary

It is unreasonable to believe that one of the DNC leaders (he is on the Platform Committee and I think Rules as well) was not going to take a hit when you had them at the beginning of the event less than 24 hours after the DNC chairwoman resigns.

I know this was not the plan when Cummings was put into the spot. I expect the DNC thought smooth sailing. And then the emails.

Answer:

Do not allow what happened at the top of the party apparatus to happen. Pay attention to the rank and file when they go this is messed up for 9 months.

However, I am sorry for Cummings and the direction the event took. But blame the Leadership -- not the membership.

[TomCADem]

77. I Thought It Was Opposition to BLM

...given that it was during his speech, I was wondering whether Rudy G had some supporters in the house.

[IronLionZion]

83. It was the wrong time and wrong speaker

Of course they have the right to protest, but they should choose someone who has a major role in promoting the legislation. Congressman Cummings is not that person.

http://www.ontheissues.org/House/Elijah_Cummings.htm#Free_Trade

https://cummings.house.gov/issues

He signed this letter to Obama https://votesmart.org/public-statement/1017527/letter-to-barack-obama-president-of-the-united-states-trans-pacific-partnership

[turbo_satan]

87. I'm not trying to be provocative, but...

I think you're confusing Elijah Cummings with John Lewis. Don't get me wrong -- Cummings is a great guy who is worthy of our admiration. But I'd hesitate to call him a hero in the same way I'd call John Lewis (who worked with MLK and who had his head smashed in while marching from Selma to Montgomery) a hero.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

90. I have a story as well and I have been shouted down on DU.

I've confronted real racism. Nasty fucking racism. It doesn't fit the narrative here though.