Hillary Clinton needs a voice coach

[woolldog]

I'm sorry. But the single best thing Clinton could do to ensure her victory in November is to STOP yelling into the microphone at rallies.

Compare her speech where she ridiculed Trumps foreign policy with her speech on economic policy today. In the foreign policy speech she seemed calm, measured and didn't yell into the microphone. The economic policy speech today was distracting because she sounded shrill. She was screaming into the microphone.

Please just talk normally.

[MFM008]

1. Come on

Really?

[yeoman6987]

139. Many were saying the same thing at the pool today

I didn't see it so I don't know.

[emulatorloo]

2. ...

[arcane1]

3. Countdown to the inevitable accusation of "sexism"

Only men can have annoying voices

[JaneyVee]

10. Obvious, huh?

[La Lioness Priyanka]

28. It's really sad to see you dismiss sexism so easily

Disappointing really. Especially cause there is a bunch of evidence about women's voices and sexism.

[arcane1]

36. I'm not dismissing sexism at all.

But I'm not automatically assuming the OP is being sexist either. I could be wrong, and if so I'll admit it.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

58. When someone is clearly using sexist tropes

You should assume they are being sexist.

She doesn't need a new voice or a new stylist or whatever new sexist crap people want to bring up next.

[woolldog]

61. Never said she needed a new voice

I said she could use a voice coach. Maybe since I am from LA, it's no big deal, everyone has a voice coach.

She would be more effective if she adopted the tone and tenor she used in her foreign policy speech, imo, obviously.

[LAS14]

89. What woman speaking to a rally would you recommend as a model?????

[woolldog]

94. Liz Warren's speech in June to that lawyer's association

tearing down Trump was a barnburner.

[LAS14]

99. At a RALLY, not a speech to a lawyer's association!

Did you hear Warren at the rally she attended with Hillary?

[woolldog]

102. I did not.

Don't have a lot of time these days.

Is your position that women need to yell into the mic at rallies and men don't? Is that what you're getting at? Because I doubt that's true.

[John Poet]

161. George H.W. Bush employed a speech coach before his acceptance speech in 1988,

and the difference was like night and day! He ended up closing a 16-point gap after that speech...

I wish he'd never hired the speech coach.

[woolldog]

165. How sexist of you to post that

information about Bush using a voice coach.

[KittyWampus]

169. how absurd of anyone to just accept what some random poster on DU asserts

without a shred of evidence.

In 1988, Bush was running as an incumbent VP to Reagan against Dukakis.

Yeah, it was the voice coach. LOL

[arcane1]

64. Probably a good rule to live by.

I gave the OP the benefit of the doubt in this case.

[synergie]

131. This is a sexist argument, quite literally.

[larkrake]

103. and here it is

[obamanut2012]

32. Except it is sexist

[arcane1]

38. I think it's possible to dislike yelling and not automatically be sexist.

Is the OP being sexist? Possibly, yes. But it's not a guarantee. Bernie got lots of criticism for "yelling" too.

[woolldog]

46. ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=2240951

[larkrake]

104. absolutely, her shouting voice is like nails on a chalkboard, her normal voice is quite pleasent

I vote not in the least sexist. I turn her off every time a vid comes up- it is as irritating as W's voice, and he never shouted

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

153. There's no winning this argument.

[George Eliot]

47. No, it's not. Learning to use voice politics 101 or should be.

There are voice techniques that would help her immensely. She can afford them. Of course, if it isn't worth it to her to win, that's her choice.

[LAS14]

91. Again, what female would you recommend as...

... a model? And don't say "talk normally." NO ONE does that at a rally.

[George Eliot]

116. Almost any stage actress. Andrea Mitchell one of best.

Ever heard of Andrea Mitchell? When at conventions, she's one of the best at shouting over crowds to be heard. Asking someone to learn to use his/her voice is hardly criticizing policy or a candidate's stand on issues. Of course, if one must believe their candidate is perfect in every way, I suppose this is a moot response.

And caps are the same version in print of what the OP is criticizing.

[DemonGoddess]

144. Andrea Mitchell?

Who positively LOATHES both Clintons with the fire of a thousand burning suns????

[Squinch]

114. Did you feel that BS needed a voice coach? He wasn't exactly born with the golden tones either.

[Throd]

127. He sure as hell needed a lozenge.

Sometimes he had enough lung butter to choke a horse.

[Squinch]

132. Ewwwwwwww.....

[treestar]

81. "shrill" is pretty much flame bait

on the topic of the female voice. There isn't an equivalent for men.

[Vattel]

151. lol

[leftofcool]

4. Sounds like something said over at Freepeville.

[woolldog]

6. It's constructive criticism. nt

[leftofcool]

9. Yea, Donald Trump said this same thing all while yelling.

Thanks for your sexist statement.

[MineralMan]

13. No, actually, it is not.

Hillary Clinton has somehow managed to be elected as a Senator from New York and serve as Secretary of State in the Obama administration, despite her "shrill" voice. She has now won the nomination for President.

And you're advising her on how to speak? Really?

Seems to me that she's done very nicely using her voice so far. How're you doing? I've listed some of her accomplishments. Show me why she should listen to your "constructive criticism."

[tallahasseedem]

122. If they're talking about the one from AC...

I was there and she sounded great. There are sometimes when candidates are visiting NE areas where we like that kind of tone. When I lived in Florida, they tended to soften it a bit.

[JTFrog]

16. No, it's sexism. nt

[woolldog]

17. No it's not.

There are plenty of women who know how to use their voice campaigning. She doesn't. That's why she should get a voice coach.

[JTFrog]

19. She should do as she damn well pleases. n/t

[obamanut2012]

33. Yup, it is

[LAS14]

92. Give me an example.

[Maru Kitteh]

160. "There are plenty of women"

Great. You should have no trouble citing an example of one giving a rousing speech at a large rally that meets your approval.

Please do so.

[woolldog]

163. Margaret Thatcher's speech

at the European election rally.

[JTFrog]

166. I cannot wait until history can name more than 3 women leaders of the world.

I mean, seriously, it's always a comparison to Thatcher. And 99% of the time, not in a positive manner. But now I guess she should talk like her.

Do you think women leaders, or women in general, are required to always use their indoor voices?

Hillary has decades of experience giving speeches. Not every speech is going to require the same level of energy or anger.

And there is nothing "shrill" about a woman speaking up or speaking out. Period.

[JaneyVee]

5. Men who yell are never described as shrill.

Hmmm....

Hey ladies, just "talk normally".

A voice coach? This is a presidential campaign, not American Idol.

[MineralMan]

8. Yah. Lower your voices, there, ladies...

Try to sound like a man.

[woolldog]

11. Not at all.

Her foreign policy speech bashing Trump is a great example of the kind of tone she should adopt when speaking. She didn't sound like a man and she wasn't yelling either.

[MineralMan]

20. Again, what are your credentials for advising a woman who

has been a US Senator, a Secretary of State and now a nominee for President. Why, exactly, should she listen to your advice?

I figure she's done pretty damned well on her own account. But, if you have some particular expertise on women's voices, please let us know what that is.

[woolldog]

41. You don't need a PhD in phonetics to know that when she yells into the microphones it

is not pleasant and turns many off.

I think most would agree that Clinton isn't the most effective campaigner. She can come across as stiff, awkward, and yes, at time, her voice can grate when she's yelling into the mic. She's extremely smart and sharp on policy. It's the retail campaigning where she struggles.

The notion that she has no room for improvement or you need some kind of expertise to make the common sense observation that her yelling into the mic turns people off is ludicrous.

[MineralMan]

42. I see. Well, there you go.

You apparently have no expertise in elocution. Thanks. She obviously is unable to get people to vote for her, I guess. It's all hopeless.

[woolldog]

48. First you argued that I was trying to tell women to speak like a man.

I pointed out in response that, no, I was saying that Clinton should adopt a tone similar to the one she used in a previous speech.

Since you have no response to that, you deflect and try to change the topic into what expertise is needed to write a post saying that you find a politicians voice annoying at time.

Obviously you don't need expertise to know that her tone when she yells into the microphone is annoying.

[MineralMan]

56. Oddly, I don't find her voice annoying at all.

When she speaks emphatically, it sounds like anyone speaking emphatically to me. As a woman, she has a woman's voice. Why would I expect anything different. I'm listening to her words and her tone when I see her. Emphatic is emphatic, whatever octave is used.

Now, I'm a bass-baritone, so I sound differently from Hillary when I speak loudly. That's to be expected. I'm a guy, with a guy's voice. She's a woman. I still listen to what she has to say, though, without commenting on her vocal pitch.

She's going to be our next President. I hope to hear her emphatic voice often for 8 years. It will be a treat.

[woolldog]

59. Understood Mineral Man

I like her voice when she's speaking naturally in a town hall or regular debate or one on one. It's the rallies that don't work for her. Of course, this is all, imo, and others may disagree. Thanks for keeping your disagreement respectful, for the most part.

[DLCWIdem]

146. wooldog its the word shrill that sounds sexist

There are some words that are applied to woman as stereotypes and that is one of those words. Think of it, shrill, implies a high voice. But it is also used when someone is trying to denote a women who is too emotional and irrational.

[LAS14]

97. Thanks! Common sense is SO WELCOME!

YES, I'M YELLING!

[treestar]

82. Doesn't bother me

I am never annoyed by her voice, even when raised. You can't prove many people would be. It's the people who hate her who would be.

[obamanut2012]

37. "Shrill" is a sexist construct

[LoverOfLiberty]

51. Would you mind explaining

why you think it is? (ELI5).

[JTFrog]

71. Here is a little reading for you....

http://time.com/4268325/history-calling-women-shrill/
The Long, Sexist History of ‘Shrill’ Women
William Cheng @willxcheng March 23, 2016

Those who have the most reason to speak up tend to be the ones told to keep quiet

In a 1926 survey about talk radio, a ratio of 100 to 1 respondents preferred male hosts to female hosts. Women, these respondents complained, sounded “shrill” and conveyed “too much” personality. Ninety years later, and the battle rages on, word for word. Many unapologetically vociferous male politicians and pundits have lately said that Hillary Clinton’s raised voice during speeches somehow registers as, yes, “shrill” and simply “too much.”

There’s a long history of men telling women to avoid rhetorical excess and to use their indoor voices. In ancient Greece, public female vocality often bore associations with prostitution, madness, witchcraft and androgyny. In late medieval England, an outspoken woman would often be dubbed a “scold,” someone who “could not keep her negative, or worse, insubordinate, words to herself.” In the late 19th century, when some women assumed the job of telephone operators, they took mandatory lessons on how to speak in soft, melodious and deferential timbres.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

An entrenched irony of public expression in American democracy is how individuals who endure systemic oppression (women, the LGBT community, people of color) — who might have the most reason to shout — tend to be the same individuals who are urged to keep their voices down, to stay calm, and to laugh a little (or “smile,” as Joe Scarborough and others have advised Clinton).

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

No, you can’t call someone a sexist just because they’re anti-Clinton. You can’t even call them sexist solely based on their idiosyncratic dislike of Clinton’s voice. But you likewise can’t look at the time-honored tradition of societies policing women’s voices and reasonably claim that sexism isn’t prevalent in this year’s election.

[treestar]

83. +1

good information

[LoverOfLiberty]

140. Thanks for the info

Interesting reading.

[LAS14]

93. That wasn't a rally!!!!!

[sheshe2]

154. Oh Snap.

You won the picture I saved for the right moment!

[bettyellen]

170. Lol. We used to say oh snap all the time, ha.

[George Eliot]

50. Women do have harder time. But some learn.

Politicians sell themselves. A voice coach would help. But, of course, if you don't care that she puts people off with the quality of her voice, that's fine. Maybe winning isn't that important after all. That was a lesson early women journalists had to learn early. Their voices simply didn't carry well over airwaves. So they adjusted.

Just because you support a candidate doesn't make them perfect.

[treestar]

84. Do you consider your interests and the issues when voting?

Have you ever voted against the best candidate because their voice "put you off?"

None of this is really credible. People don't feel that way about another's voice unless they dislike them.

[Maru Kitteh]

162. Women have a hard time but "some learn?"

Hands down one of the most hideously, noxiously sexist posts on DU I've read in YEARS.

[bettyellen]

171. The authority in their voices didn't carry well to some people who are angered by smart women....

Especially women who know more than they do. Gets a decent percentage of men angry, but most seem never to figure out why.

[larkrake]

107. except Rubio, Dean, Nixon, Trump, Ted Cruz,Bobby Jindal, shall I go on?

[DemonGoddess]

145. so...

because her RETHUG opponents call her shrill, this is okay with you?

[DawgHouse]

152. She's probably not going to do very well in the swim suit competition.

Hopefully, she'll do alright on Miss Congeniality.

[MineralMan]

7. Shrill, eh? Now, where have I heard that before?

Uff da!

[brush]

12. Are you serious? She's too agressive too, right? And Sanders speaks softly?

[woolldog]

15. ugh I can't stand Sanders

or the way he talks. I literally have to turn the TV off because of that brooklyn east coast accent he has. Fortunately he's not the nominee.

[LiberalFighter]

14. Bull. There is campaign voice and there is seminar or other voice.

Her audience was different for the foreign policy speech compared to on the campaign.

[LAS14]

96. Absolutely!

[fleabiscuit]

18. Might try adjusting bass, treble, sound etc.

Sound over the idiot box is not the same as the venue. My apologies if you are referring to a live speech you were at.

[phleshdef]

21. I don't think your use of the word "shrill" is appropriate, but I agree on the yelling.

She should use the yelling for the big lines in her speeches and variate her tone a lot more.

[KingFlorez]

22. Stop it

You should delete this post, because it's silly.

[BobbyDrake]

23. Congratulations! Your comment has earned you one free Ignore!

You can pick it up right away.

[MineralMan]

24. This is a presidential campaign, not an amateur production of 'My Fair Lady.'

Sorry, but you're not Henry Higgins, either. You're out of place with this criticism. Truly.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

25. No, she doesn't. Men just like to complain about women's voices

There was a great podcast about this on radiolab or this American life, with a bunch of men whining about women's voices.

[pandr32]

26. Excuse me?

[NYC Liberal]

27. She's won 34 million votes as a presidential candidate.

7 million votes as a Senate candidate.

Over 40 million votes with her "shrill" voice.

I'm sure she'll take your advice under consideration.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

31. This. All day long.

[MineralMan]

35. Bingo! She seems to be doing fine with her own voice.

Odd that people want to have her change what has worked so well. Odd, indeed.

[ismnotwasm]

53. Plus infinity.

[JoePhilly]

54. +1

[sarae]

63. YES

Thank you.

[larkrake]

109. LOL !!!!!!!!!

[woolldog]

112. I would submit to you that her rally voice is part of the reason she lost to Obama in 2008. nt

[NYC Liberal]

123. She won 300,000 more votes in 2008 than Obama did.

[woolldog]

124. that is a matter of some dispute.

The overall point remains the same.

[sheshe2]

155. Link?

The rest of your points.

[woolldog]

164. ...

http://www.factcheck.org/2008/06/clinton-and-the-popular-vote/

[mcar]

133. That is ridiculous

I realize you are expressing your opinion but how can you even begin to defend such a statement?

I am female. As are many other voters. To posit that she lost the 2008 primary because of her voice is patently ridiculous.

Maybe it was her hair. Or the pantsuits. And, she's ambitious, you know.

[uponit7771]

29. Sigh, women with confidence are oft described as "shrill" meaning hard to listen to. Obama yelled th

.. the other day in the mike multiple times and was not described as such.

"her voice" is usually thinly vieled sexist remark

[mcar]

30. How does Bernie sound to you?

Does he need a voice coach too?

[woolldog]

43. ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=2240951

[larkrake]

111. Rough, but he is not in the General, she is

[mcar]

129. Which has nothing to do with the OP

He's complaining about HRC's voice, not her GE run. I presume she had the same voice in the primaries?

[larkrake]

138. someone not running does not need a coach

[sheshe2]

156. He says he is still running a campaign even though he lost.

[KMOD]

34. Oh good grief

[youtube]

[/youtube]

[MaggieD]

39. OMG

Enough with the sexist bullshit.

[sheshe2]

157. Hey Mags~

I guess we need to...

[zenabby]

40. I get what you are saying...

But in reality, that's how women's voice sounds when they are motivating, campaigning, pitching etc. I think the problem is more that your ears are not used to that tone of voice in a leadership position, than the problem being with the voice. 99% of the women will have that voice when raising it to the decibels that's required. The more women who come into public position and speak loudly and authoritatively, the "shrillness" will go away, coz you won't even notice it anymore. And that's exactly we need actual women leaders and not men who will advocate for or "cherish" women.

Even though it is not intentional, it is sexist. It's just so embedded in our psyche. How many men have had a voice coach, or have been told to get a voice coach?

[NCTraveler]

44. Biggest reason Sanders didn't get my vote. It was a serious issue.

For the life of me I can't figure out why he didn't get a temperament and voice coach.

[George Eliot]

66. Thanks for the snark. A little emotional?

Time for me to leave I guess. I prefer intellect over emotion. Impossible here.

[NCTraveler]

70. It's not impossible here. The op just had a bad moment.

We cover much deeper thought all over this board.

[George Eliot]

74. Referring to your reply. I agree with OP.

[NCTraveler]

78. I don't see a difference in the two.

And I never would has guessed Clintons voice was the deep thought you were alluding to. It's more clear now. Thanks.

[George Eliot]

117. ????

Sorry. Don't understand response. It was your combining comment with temperament that sounded snarky. Yes, I think all voices can improve with coaching. Esp. women's frankly since they are comprised of upper registers.

[NCTraveler]

119. Thanks for the confirmation. Nt

[treestar]

85. Then why would voice quality come into play?

What is you read the speech only? Then you could judge it entirely on intellect and not subject yourself to things that could affect you emotionally like a voice you perceive to be unpleasant.

[George Eliot]

45. Yes, she does. But she's gotten better I think.

She's softer than she was. I was to the point where I turned her off because I got tired of the yelling. No more. Now it seems she's calmed down, isn't so angry, and is showing a softer side which is way, way better.

[woolldog]

55. Thanks George.

I'm a big Clinton fan, but this is one area she could work on. The foreign policy speech was masterful in terms of tone, and I thought it meant that she had turned the corner on this.

[treestar]

86. Sounds Victorian. She needs a softer side

What of the male candidates? I guess they don't need that?

[deathrind]

49. That would be a good start....

[frazzled]

52. Oh, I think it's time to ...

pull out my Woman Card, and lay it on the table. The bias of this OP against a woman's "voice" is stunning. So let's take a look at the male candidates' voices.

There is the timbre of his voice — pitched somewhere between a squawk and a scream. The propulsive cadence of his sentences. And of course, those distinctive habits of pronunciation (“yuuuge”). ...

Trump never shed his Queens accent. Today, that accent helps him summon the stereotype of the blunt, no-nonsense New Yorker.

“He wants to sound macho,” explains John Baugh, a linguistics professor at Washington University in St. Louis. “As part of his whole tough-guy persona, he adopts almost a working-class style of speech.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/02/09/whats-up-with-donald-trumps-voice/

And then there's Bernie Sanders, with his hoarse, gravelly, machine-gun tempo shouting ... and the underbite: I can't tell you how many people have remarked on how they can't abide his underbite, which gives the harsh voice an even meaner aspect.

So we have these two guys--one with a voice "pitched somewhere between a squawk and a scream," and another who shouts and growls incessantly, and you can't stand Hillary Clinton's voice? Well, she's got company to complain about as well. None of their voices is going to win a beauty contest. Get over it.

(Calmly puts Woman Card back in wallet).

[sarae]

67. +1000

I thought the OP was a parody post...sometimes I forget how misogynist Dems can be.

[sheshe2]

158. Oh Snap

So we have these two guys--one with a voice "pitched somewhere between a squawk and a scream," and another who shouts and growls incessantly, and you can't stand Hillary Clinton's voice? Well, she's got company to complain about as well. None of their voices is going to win a beauty contest. Get over it.

(Calmly puts Woman Card back in wallet).

[procon]

57. Yes, she does need to work on her public speaking voice.

An effective public speaker, just like good singer, develops a broad range tones, inflection, pitch, breathing, modulation and frequencies to more effectively deliver the right message to the targeted audience. Some speakers have a natural talent and seem to have an instinct on how best to project their voice to achieve the maximum effect, but most people aren't so lucky and they need a bit of coaching to assist their delivery and to conserve their voice for the long haul.

Listen to Obama speak; he's a natural. He can adjust his pitch and modulate the volume from sentence to sentence and change his inflection to add an accent or convey powerful emotions. Elizabeth Warren is another natural speaker who uses her voice very effectively. The speaking voice is a tool, a marketable skill, and Hillary could improve her skill set to make the best use of the tools she has if she learned how to take advantage of her voice and use it to her best advantage.

[woolldog]

60. I'm amazed at how controversial this OP is.

Seemed like common sense to me.

[Mika]

62. The Hill camp is still very defensive/sensitive over every/anything.

I mean, after all of those sexist comments by Bernie, the BernieBros violence against Hill supporters, the chair throwing, Bernies HUUUUGE ego, and Bernie insiders massaging the primaries, can you blame them?


^^

[JoePhilly]

72. And remember, Bernie spoke in such clear, dulcet tones. Like an Angel really.

[JTFrog]

73. It's the sexism in the OP that is controversial.

And yet you don't seem to want to believe all the people who have told you this already, so I'm not surprised you are amazed.

[procon]

77. Oh, don't do that.

Sexism is trying to pretend that women don't have issues with the tonal quality of their public voices. Look, neither men nor women have exclusive rights to possessing a powerful speaking voice. Some people have an inherent talent and others need to learn new skills. The voice is merely a tool, and as such, any user can be trained to use it more effectively. Women generally have higher frequencies because their anatomy is smaller, just as the youthful Vienna Boys Choir is famous for their voices in the soprano or alto range, an ability largely due to their undeveloped physical size, not their gender.

[JTFrog]

126. Yes, I will call it as I see it. n/t

[Haveadream]

179. Sexism is deciding that women in particular

"have issues with the tonal quality of their public voices".

A higher frequency is common for women. So what? Many people LIKE that. That is only a "tonal problem" if you intensely prefer a male voice or a low frequency. Apparently, that is the case for you. A deep, male voice is not the 'norm', correct or even a positive attribute women should be training their voices to emulate. Nor should they be trained to lower their voices. In terms of public speaking skills, male politicians shout, shake, flail, emit spittle and go red in the face all the time, this current election cycle being a perfect example. Of the leading candidates, Hillary has not only the best message but the most composed delivery of it by far.

[Lord Magus]

100. Calling a woman "shrill" is overtly sexist.

I'm amazed that you didn't realize that.

[LAS14]

98. Did you hear Obama yelling at the North Carolina rally the other day???????

[oasis]

65. No need for rallies or voice coaches after she's president.

[George II]

68. Ever been to a political rally, especially an outdoor rally? What we hear on television....

....is directly from the microphones through the television electronics.

She's speaking to people who are outdoors and her sound is projected over loudspeakers. It's completely different from what we hear on television.

[Qutzupalotl]

69. She has some vocal fry when she is projecting her voice for emphasis

and I agree it could be improved. There are warm-up exercises on the net that address this. I had quite a bit myself, but the exercises helped.

[RBInMaine]

75. And then if she spoke too calmly you'd complain she wasn't "emotional" enough. Stop this NONSENSE.

[treestar]

87. +1

[David__77]

76. I think that, at least sometimes, gender is involved. I think "shrill" is often gender-specific.

I don't recall of hearing a man described as "shrill."

I personally have heard her voice on the radio and not liked the sound of it. I do not know if that is related to her being female; I don't rule it out.

I don't consider that one of my primary considerations in determining who should be president should be tone of voice.

[VOX]

79. Jesus Effing Christ.

The house is on fire, and you're gathering kindling. Shaking my damned so hard it's doing a 360°.

[sufrommich]

80. She sounds like a woman raising her voice. There's nothing

a voice coach can do about people who have a problem with that.

[LAS14]

88. No one "talks normally" at a rally.

Everyone raises their voice. When men do it, everyone thinks it's fine. When woment do it, they're shrill. Sounds like old fashioned sexism to me.

[tallahasseedem]

125. She had to at AC today...

we were a rowdy crowd and since it was on the boardwalk, the waves in the back and tourists made it a louder than usual environment.

Having said that, she kicked ass...as always!

[Throd]

90. Hillary sounds like a crow and Bernie gargles his phlegm. Neither is appealing.

Trump's voice isn't all that bad, it's the stupid shit he says with it that I have a problem with.

[Music Man]

101. My wife and I are voice teachers/performers

And we basically agree with the OP. Voice being what we're trained in, we pick up frequently on how speakers use their voice.

I don't mind Hillary yelling as far as appearances go. It's passionate and is NO DIFFERENT from how men use the microphone. The word "shrill" certainly has sexist connotations, and it's unfair to use that term.

However, Hillary (and Bill, for that matter) has major voice dysfunction. There's a tremendous amount of vocal fry in her voice that makes it sound old. She has bigger problems in the world than the coordination of her vocal folds and her airflow, but I am sensitive to how people use (or misuse) their voice. People who have jobs that require a lot of speaking quickly develop bad habits. Being a music teacher, it's not the singing that kills me, it's the talking throughout the day! Properly cared for, one's voice can last well into old age. Not cared for, one can lose a valuable tool.

[bravenak]

105. Very interesting information

I always wanted to be able to sing but I really sound shitty. Maybe it's HOW I Do it. I probably ruined my voice long long ago.

[woolldog]

110. "shrill" was probably a bad choice of words.

But thanks for your thoughts. What's the right way to care for our voices?

[renate]

143. It's good to hear an expert opinion and i agree

I feel shy about saying so, but I do. I didn't especially care for Bernie's voice either. A good voice coach could be helpful for a lot of politicians who, unlike entertainers, never gave their voices and delivery a moment's thought.

[book_worm]

108. She and Bernie have that in common

[Squinch]

113. So you think Trump and BS speak so much better than she does? Because they don't and NO ONE

has suggested that they need to be "coached."

[Squinch]

115. We'll file this under, "Lotsa guys don't even know when they're doing it."

Because I'm feeling like giving you the benefit of the doubt, and that's the best that could be said about this bullshit.

[Bill USA]

118. Jimmy Kimmel mocks Hillary Clinton's critics by 'mansplaining' public speaking to her

http://www.businessinsider.com/jimmy-kimmel-mansplaining-to-hillary-clinton-2016-3

Clearly, this was Kimmel and Clinton's tongue-in-cheek way of addressing critics who go after her presentation. The former Secretary of State has been subjected to a lot of scrutiny about her choice of outfits, her speaking style, and even when and how she should smile. Arguably, these are critiques that the male politicians don't typically have to deal with.

(more)

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/03/jimmy-kimmel-and-hillary-clinton-mock-mansplaining-in-hilarious-sexism-sendup/

Kimmel: “You’re shouting. You’re too loud. You don’t have to shout like that, it hurts my ears. It comes off as a little shrill — for men, that’s all.”

(Hillary makes appropriate adjustment. Tries again)

Kimmel: “I mean, you’re making a speech, not an arrest. So tone it down, and try it again.”

(Hillary makes appropriate adjustment. Tries again)

Kimmel: “You know what, you have to speak up because we can’t hear you now. You’re like a mouse up there.”

(Hillary makes appropriate adjustment. Tries again)

Kimmel: “And you know what would be nice? If you smiled — if you put a little, you know, some teeth.”
(more)

I don't think you meant it this way, but it does seem that whatever Clinton does, there's somebody criticising her for it.

[woolldog]

141. That was hilarious.

Thanks for posting.

[tallahasseedem]

120. Ummm, I was just at her Atlantic City rally today...

and she kicked ass, thank you very much.

Today we were so loud cheering and chanting that she had no choice. Also, the waves in the background had a big impact.

We have better things to worry about.

[seabeyond]

121. Men are allowed to be enthusiastic, women not. Stay measured Clinton. Enough. Lol. Nt

[Phil1934]

128. John Dean wsn't

[seabeyond]

130. True that. I never did hear him called shrill, though.

[woolldog]

134. yes he was...

* * *

"Yes, Howard Dean screamed a scream so shrill and disquieting that it was destined live on forever in our hearts and on our computer screens."

http://gawker.com/in-memory-of-howard-deans-horrifying-scream-1753830559

[seabeyond]

136. microphone in his mouth and let loose a war cry the likes of which no single human being should have

Yes, Howard Dean screamed a scream so shrill and disquieting that it was destined live on forever in our hearts and on our computer screens. It introduced many of us to the idea that, perhaps, there is a darkness in this world after all. And that’s alright. Because should that darkness ever overwhelm you, be like Howard Dean—and scream.

And again, shrill came out awfully positive. See how that works.

Yeeee haaaaah!!!!

[runaway hero]

135. ouch bro

[bigwillq]

137. Both Hillary and Trump's voice annoys me

Bernie wasn't much better. I tend to think most politicians' voices are annoying.

[ibegurpard]

142. No she doesnt

She needs to speak how and what she feels. This over-management of politicians is a blight.

[DemonGoddess]

147. You know

You should watch the Kimmel clip that's posted further downthread.

Then you'll get exactly WHY this post is so damned offensive.

[liberalnarb]

148. The "she screams to much meme" was a sexist attack started by the right.

Though, I don't think she is the best speaker. She was better speaker back in 08.

[progree]

149. Is this the one? I thought it was a very compelling speech

Hillary Clinton Speech On Donald Trump in Atlantic City, NJ (July 6, 2016) Hillary DESTROYS Trump

She starts speaking at 4:10. I watched up to 17:23, will watch the rest later (total video length is 28:42).

Have I not yet gotten to the part where she, in The Exorcist Linda Blair style, shrilly screams, "your mother sucks cocks IN HELL",
rotates her head 180 degrees, and spews green vomit?


(well will have to settle for orange)

Anyway, that's what I was expecting after reading this thread.

She should speak in soft measured tones when describing Trump screwing his workers, contractors, and partners?

[woolldog]

150. New York Times article

In settings such as a forum on CNN on Wednesday and in the Democratic debates, Mrs. Clinton seems comfortable, able to string together paragraphs of complex policy talk off the cuff. But that does not always come through when she speaks to large groups, public speaking experts said.

“There’s a lot of wisdom to the old adage that you almost garner more attention when you whisper,” said Terri Sjodin, a public speaking consultant based in Newport Beach, Calif. “But there’s an adrenaline that gets high when you’re in a large venue, an auditorium, and a natural tendency to shout or get louder.”

<...>

But, she added, the former secretary of state, like many public figures male and female, could afford to work on her delivery.

“She tends to substitute volume for expression,” Ms. Sherman <Ruth Sherman, a public speaking coach who advises chief executives and celebrities> said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/05/us/politics/hillary-clinton-speeches-sexism.html

[merrily]

159. Sanders and Bill Clinton need a speech coach. They both wear down their voices after much public

speaking. A properly trained coach can tell them how to avoid doing that, assuming it's not a physical issue.

[brooklynite]

167. 1. I don't think she does. 2. It's not sexist

I might make the equivalent comment about Ron Paul.

[Orsino]

168. She just needs a platform to win hearts and minds.

While I have been annoyed with her voice, I'd say she does well enough there without my advice.

I don't listen to speeches much, but a couple of times on the campaign trail she has moved me with just the sound of a ragged, slightly hoarse voice at the end of what must have been long-ass days.

But preach on, sister, in whatever voice you've got. We have actual work for you to do.

[musicblind]

172. On this, I agree.

The things she says are great, her inflection is what needs work. When she is calm, it comes across fantastic and like the anti-thesis of Trump's screeching.

[NastyRiffraff]

173. And yet here she is, the presumptive Dem nominee

Funny that.

She's doing just fine. But thanks for your concern.

[LanternWaste]

174. You seem to have overly-sensitive ears, and may need medical treatment. Tinnitus, maybe?

You seem to have overly-sensitive ears, and may need medical treatment. Tinnitus, maybe?

Six of one, half a dozen of the other... and each unsupported allegation as objective as the other (insert creative justification in space below provided free of charge.)

[Drum]

175. How DARE you!!

cannot criticize cannot criticize cannot criticize cannot criticize
criticize cannot criticize cannot criticize cannot criticize cannot
cannot criticize cannot criticize cannot criticize cannot criticize
criticize cannot criticize cannot criticize cannot criticize cannot
cannot criticize cannot criticize cannot criticize cannot criticize
criticize cannot criticize cannot criticize cannot criticize cannot
cannot criticize cannot criticize cannot criticize cannot criticize



Oh yes:

[Gothmog]

176. I strongly disagree with your analysis

[woolldog]

177. Thanks for posting your thoughts.

[Gothmog]

180. I have no trouble with Hillary's voice and I have heard her speak in person twice

I have been to two high dollar donor events and have heard her speak close up. I have no trouble with her voice or volume.

BTW, Sec. Clinton is amazing in her willingness to take selfies and pose for pictures for people at her events.

[woolldog]

181. again, thanks for your thoughts.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=2241112

[louis-t]

178. I have to agree. It's hard to listen to.

I always think 'We will have to listen to that voice for at least 4 years.'
It was the same with Palin or Cruz. Even Lieberman. Her natural voice is much better.