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Cheese Sandwich

(9,086 posts)
Tue Jun 7, 2016, 03:56 PM Jun 2016

NBC Poll: Trump Beats Clinton When Third Party Candidates Are Included


In the first alternative, we asked about Clinton, Trump, Gary Johnson (the Libertarian) and Jill Stein (the Green Party candidate) as explicit options with their party affiliation. The results from this question among registered voters show Trump at 40 percent, Clinton at 39 percent, Johnson at 9 percent and Stein at 4 percent; 8 percent did not answer the question.



The other alternative vote choice question we asked gave the option of choosing Clinton, Trump or another candidate with an option to specify the candidate name in an open-ended format. In this version of the question, among registered voters, Trumps beats Clinton by 3 percentage points — 39 percent to 36 percent — with responses for "other" pulling in a very large 22 percent.



http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/poll-clinton-holds-four-point-national-lead-over-trump-or-n586796



93 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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NBC Poll: Trump Beats Clinton When Third Party Candidates Are Included (Original Post) Cheese Sandwich Jun 2016 OP
So how long until we see a post claiming NBC is a RW rag? TimPlo Jun 2016 #1
MSNBC is all Trump, all the time AgingAmerican Jun 2016 #34
MSNBC the left wing news media TimPlo Jun 2016 #41
MSNBC is a right wing tabloid AgingAmerican Jun 2016 #43
Yea I know. TimPlo Jun 2016 #45
Why are they sponsoring the Convention? HooptieWagon Jun 2016 #52
Because the Democratic Party is not Democratic anymore; it's Third Way. senz Jun 2016 #61
MSNBC is owned by Comcast. (nt) w4rma Jun 2016 #49
Convention sponsor. HooptieWagon Jun 2016 #51
K & R! Cobalt Violet Jun 2016 #2
I wonder how that breaks down, state-by-state ... NurseJackie Jun 2016 #3
We won't get much indication until they poll the states that way Jarqui Jun 2016 #9
Any pole that has Trump up in Florida is very suspect dbackjon Jun 2016 #90
Only 4 times ever did it go the reverse. Out of over 220+years. SheenaR Jun 2016 #17
they'll just say that Clinton will catch up and win 58-36 ... MisterP Jun 2016 #4
We don't elect Presidents by popular vote but rather by electoral college vote. n/t PoliticAverse Jun 2016 #5
That's very comforting thank you. Cheese Sandwich Jun 2016 #7
Only four times in our nation's history did it not coincide SheenaR Jun 2016 #15
One of those times was the inspiration for DU's creation. n/t PoliticAverse Jun 2016 #32
Four is not a totally insignificant number out of 56 possible. (n/t) thesquanderer Jun 2016 #48
Ok SheenaR Jun 2016 #58
Yep, and here's the latest out of Florida, and it's bad news for Dems. Matt_in_STL Jun 2016 #76
Let it all out Tarc Jun 2016 #6
It's really something, isn't it? NurseJackie Jun 2016 #8
It's like last call, and those few down at the end of the bar Tarc Jun 2016 #10
Do you think that, after June 16, no one will be allowed to post poll results you don't like? Jim Lane Jun 2016 #70
Your are certainly free to try Tarc Jun 2016 #71
You do realize these polls will be allowed through the GE, right? Matt_in_STL Jun 2016 #78
You are certainly free to try Tarc Jun 2016 #79
Sure, I saw polls as recent as yesterday... Blanks Jun 2016 #89
Anyone can believe what they choose to believe, but that doesn't preclude them from being posted Matt_in_STL Jun 2016 #91
Yeah, I don't think posting polls is against the rules... Blanks Jun 2016 #93
he also beats her without third party candidates. restorefreedom Jun 2016 #11
Ah the Green traitors at it again Demsrule86 Jun 2016 #12
You realize Gary Johnson draws more votes from Hillary than Jill Stein does? Cheese Sandwich Jun 2016 #13
Gives an idea of where a lot of Sanders support is coming from JoePhilly Jun 2016 #14
There's no doubt alot of Bernie's support comes from independents that don't like the 2 big parties Cheese Sandwich Jun 2016 #16
Libertarians and Greens. JoePhilly Jun 2016 #18
I'm just assuming anybody who goes through the trouble of labeling themselves Cheese Sandwich Jun 2016 #20
All Hillary has to do is win enough electoral college votes. JoePhilly Jun 2016 #23
Because of the blue wall she'll start out almost there Ohioblue22 Jun 2016 #30
Exactly correct ... and Trump will spend the next 5 months insulting ... JoePhilly Jun 2016 #36
Insulting yes but more importantly sec.clinton will wipe the floor with him on policy Ohioblue22 Jun 2016 #37
Oh absolutely ... and she'll do it in a way that will really tick him off. JoePhilly Jun 2016 #38
Can't wait. I bet she gets him so flustered his face will turn a crazy shade of red-orange while he Ohioblue22 Jun 2016 #42
Oh she going to finally have some conventions? TimPlo Jun 2016 #44
The junk food of the electorate Ohioblue22 Jun 2016 #29
No, that's just ignorant. HooptieWagon Jun 2016 #53
Why should people have blind party loyalty? Nt 9999dmg Jun 2016 #64
I don't believe that at all Demsrule86 Jun 2016 #68
No Dem progressive would vote for Hillary either pinebox Jun 2016 #73
I knew a number of former Dems who just hadn't changed their party but never voted Dem Demsrule86 Jun 2016 #69
Traitors to what? Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2016 #65
They and their dear friend Nader elected Bush II Demsrule86 Jun 2016 #66
Utter rubbish. Tierra_y_Libertad Jun 2016 #67
But talking points are more important than reality! pinebox Jun 2016 #74
Smart people don't count springtime polls. Look at history. I guarantee they will look different anotherproletariat Jun 2016 #19
They could look worse in July Cheese Sandwich Jun 2016 #21
Have you seen what's going on with the repubs? nt anotherproletariat Jun 2016 #22
Good point they're in huge trouble. Cheese Sandwich Jun 2016 #24
The only way they will look worse is if Sanders supporters remain stubborn. eastwestdem Jun 2016 #25
I'm personally aware of at least 20 lifelong Democratic voters who have vowed never Hillary Cheese Sandwich Jun 2016 #47
With Trump as the only realistic alternative, a lifelong Democrat would be selling out onenote Jun 2016 #54
Ok eeyore Ohioblue22 Jun 2016 #26
True... LenaBaby61 Jun 2016 #39
Good to know. nt Smarmie Doofus Jun 2016 #27
Sadly - you wish. bettyellen Jun 2016 #28
This is early June. Obama was behind right now also. tonyt53 Jun 2016 #31
Yep... LenaBaby61 Jun 2016 #35
National polls don't tell the true story of an election that will be fought out in a few states onenote Jun 2016 #33
Absolutely correct and.... LenaBaby61 Jun 2016 #40
It seems that many people here forget or sadoldgirl Jun 2016 #46
The question is, which--if any--states get thrown from Hillary to Trump because of 3rd parties. (nt) thesquanderer Jun 2016 #50
So Trump wins if there's an option to vote for a mythical "other candidate" that's whoever you want? Lord Magus Jun 2016 #55
What a poor analysis they did of their own poll Il_Coniglietto Jun 2016 #56
Indeed. A fantasy "other" candidate has no place in such a poll. n/t PoliticAverse Jun 2016 #57
Yep. The media need a horse race and they'll do anything to create it. Il_Coniglietto Jun 2016 #60
Uh, but they did one where they named two "other" candidates Cheese Sandwich Jun 2016 #59
Except for the obvious one? Il_Coniglietto Jun 2016 #63
This is why the SDs should pick Bernie at the convention. senz Jun 2016 #62
The SDs are aware of something you apparently don't appreciate onenote Jun 2016 #72
The SD have been running rightward since 1972 n/t That Guy 888 Jun 2016 #82
If true, why has Sanders been pretending he can get hundreds to switch sides? onenote Jun 2016 #86
I don't know, they've been in the tank for Clinton since before the election started. n/t That Guy 888 Jun 2016 #87
You wish. Darb Jun 2016 #75
If Gary Johnson is allowed onto the national debate stage pinebox Jun 2016 #77
American libertarians are big business laissez-faire capitalist. That Guy 888 Jun 2016 #83
There's more to it pinebox Jun 2016 #85
"Research has shown that third-party candidates often receive more support in public opinion polls BobbyDrake Jun 2016 #80
Yes people do tend to vote for a candidate they think might actually win when the time comes. n/t PoliticAverse Jun 2016 #84
Stein was polling 2-3% in 2012. She ended up with 0.35%. Johnson, polling as high as 8%, got 1%. TwilightZone Jun 2016 #88
As we see with the California results, polls are only snapshots (blurry ones at that). Metric System Jun 2016 #81
It doesn't matter - Hillary will be the Democratic nominee...win or lose. Sancho Jun 2016 #92
 

TimPlo

(443 posts)
41. MSNBC the left wing news media
Tue Jun 7, 2016, 04:51 PM
Jun 2016

As GOP drones like to call it. This primary has shown me how clueless people are on both sides of the aisle. Being low information and media bobble heads is a bi-partisan thing.

 

TimPlo

(443 posts)
45. Yea I know.
Tue Jun 7, 2016, 04:56 PM
Jun 2016

If someone can not see that, when they fired that black host who was liberal for the Cruz campaign manger who got fired because he lied. I mean come on MSNBC you hired a liar that lied to much for Cruz!!

 

senz

(11,945 posts)
61. Because the Democratic Party is not Democratic anymore; it's Third Way.
Tue Jun 7, 2016, 07:47 PM
Jun 2016

Democratic/Republican hybrid. Run by the establishment for the 1%.

Of course MSNBC likes it.

Jarqui

(10,126 posts)
9. We won't get much indication until they poll the states that way
Tue Jun 7, 2016, 04:13 PM
Jun 2016

Out of three on Real Clear Politics, Florida remained unchanged (Trump +1 in that single poll)

Georgia and Connecticut improved by a couple of points for Trump when Johnson & Stein were added to the poll choices (done by PPP and Quinnipiac recently).

That's probably enough to suggest that the pure Trump v Clinton polls that ignore Johnson and Stein probably overstate Hillary's competitive position.

She's not a popular person outside of the Democratic party. (but neither is Trump)

 

dbackjon

(6,578 posts)
90. Any pole that has Trump up in Florida is very suspect
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 11:49 AM
Jun 2016

Probably undersampling Hispanic voters especially Puerto Ricans

 

Jim Lane

(11,175 posts)
70. Do you think that, after June 16, no one will be allowed to post poll results you don't like?
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 03:39 AM
Jun 2016

I know that some of the less intelligent Clinton supporters have seen "Hillary-bashing" and "Trump-humping" in any post that suggests anything other than a 400-electoral-vote landslide for Clinton. Fortunately, I don't think the admins will see it that way.

If a poll right after the conventions shows Trump in the lead, expect to see it reported here. This will still be a political discussion board, not the official Hillary Clinton Amen Corner. Of course, the admins have a right to declare "last call" for ALL honest discussions, but I'm guessing that they won't. I'm further guessing that, in the last half of June, we'll see at least a few posts from Clinton supporters who wanted the Amen Corner and are whining about not getting it.

Tarc

(10,476 posts)
71. Your are certainly free to try
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 08:25 AM
Jun 2016

I can share some of my CU-evading tips, perhaps they'll be useful here for ya.

 

Matt_in_STL

(1,446 posts)
78. You do realize these polls will be allowed through the GE, right?
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 08:40 AM
Jun 2016

Just because it isn't favorable to Hillary doesn't mean it can't be posted.

Blanks

(4,835 posts)
89. Sure, I saw polls as recent as yesterday...
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 11:46 AM
Jun 2016

Claiming that Clinton and Sanders were in a dead heat in California.

Posting poll results is one thing, believing them is a whole different thing.

 

Matt_in_STL

(1,446 posts)
91. Anyone can believe what they choose to believe, but that doesn't preclude them from being posted
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 11:54 AM
Jun 2016

As the poster above seems to believe.

Blanks

(4,835 posts)
93. Yeah, I don't think posting polls is against the rules...
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 11:59 AM
Jun 2016

The poster should be willing to defend the validity of the poll, but as far as I know they aren't going to be disallowed.

restorefreedom

(12,655 posts)
11. he also beats her without third party candidates.
Tue Jun 7, 2016, 04:17 PM
Jun 2016

nov gonna be a bloodbath, but hey, we tried

#neverhillary
#bernieorbust
#fuckunity

Demsrule86

(68,586 posts)
12. Ah the Green traitors at it again
Tue Jun 7, 2016, 04:19 PM
Jun 2016

Didn't they learn anything in 2000? Greens are dead to me...they never accomplish anything.

 

Cheese Sandwich

(9,086 posts)
13. You realize Gary Johnson draws more votes from Hillary than Jill Stein does?
Tue Jun 7, 2016, 04:26 PM
Jun 2016


Not only that, but Gary Johnson draws more votes from Hillary than he does from Trump.
 

Cheese Sandwich

(9,086 posts)
16. There's no doubt alot of Bernie's support comes from independents that don't like the 2 big parties
Tue Jun 7, 2016, 04:30 PM
Jun 2016

People who have zero party loyalty to any party.

That's kind of undeniable.

 

Cheese Sandwich

(9,086 posts)
20. I'm just assuming anybody who goes through the trouble of labeling themselves
Tue Jun 7, 2016, 04:33 PM
Jun 2016

a capital L Liberatarian or a capital G Green party member, those people are voting for their party anyways, almost no matter what. It's the independents who swing the election. And independents are not only in the center of the politics spectrum. Independents are left, right, up down, every which way. Bernie draws them. Hillary can never draw them.

JoePhilly

(27,787 posts)
23. All Hillary has to do is win enough electoral college votes.
Tue Jun 7, 2016, 04:36 PM
Jun 2016

And she'll do that easily.

Meanwhile, you hang on to whatever hope you can for the next few hours ... its almost over now.

JoePhilly

(27,787 posts)
36. Exactly correct ... and Trump will spend the next 5 months insulting ...
Tue Jun 7, 2016, 04:46 PM
Jun 2016

... almost every voting block there is.

I cant' wait until Folks like Obama, Biden, Warren, Castro, and Keith Ellison and many many others start to go after him.

He's really all alone ... the few spokespeople he has useless empty heads.

Trump is going to be fighting almost completely alone. Who's he got ... Christie?

No elected GOP member, except for a couple of the most insane lunatics is going to go out on a limb for him.

And he's got such thin skin ... he'll be doing nothing but reacting.

JoePhilly

(27,787 posts)
38. Oh absolutely ... and she'll do it in a way that will really tick him off.
Tue Jun 7, 2016, 04:50 PM
Jun 2016

She'll call his proposals simplistic, naive, uniformed ... and he'll lose his mind.

 

Ohioblue22

(1,430 posts)
42. Can't wait. I bet she gets him so flustered his face will turn a crazy shade of red-orange while he
Tue Jun 7, 2016, 04:54 PM
Jun 2016

Screams the b word at her

 

TimPlo

(443 posts)
44. Oh she going to finally have some conventions?
Tue Jun 7, 2016, 04:54 PM
Jun 2016

I bet they will change now that she does not have to get DNC voters.

 

HooptieWagon

(17,064 posts)
53. No, that's just ignorant.
Tue Jun 7, 2016, 05:47 PM
Jun 2016

Libertarians have a Party and a candidate. There is no crossover from Sanders supporters.
Many Sanders supporters will crossover to vote for Jill Stein...just as many Warren supporters crossed over to Sanders when he declared and she didn't. Stein's platform is much closer to Sander's than Clinton's is. Clinton is very nearly Jeb Bush, even Bush-backer Jamie Dimon says so. Only some Democratic loyalists will hold their nose and vote for Clinton. Those fed up with the corporatist Third Way won't, and a large number of indies won't.

Demsrule86

(68,586 posts)
68. I don't believe that at all
Tue Jun 7, 2016, 09:13 PM
Jun 2016

No Democratic progressive would vote for Libertarians. They are probably registered Dems who have crossed over to the dark side and voted for Republicans for years and have now become even more extreme and gone libertarian which is actually worse the Republican.

Demsrule86

(68,586 posts)
66. They and their dear friend Nader elected Bush II
Tue Jun 7, 2016, 09:02 PM
Jun 2016

They are dead to me and traitors to every, man woman and child...they gave us the among other horrors , 9-11, the Katrina nightmare, economic meltdown and two stupid wars which have destabilized the middle east.They also gave us the United decision. If Gore had been elected, there would have been no right-wing court picks. And now they want to help elect Trump...who is worse than Bush and he would have five possible court picks;...wow they can't do anything worthwhile but will destroy all progressive accomplishments since Roosevelt. Fuck them.

 

Tierra_y_Libertad

(50,414 posts)
67. Utter rubbish.
Tue Jun 7, 2016, 09:08 PM
Jun 2016

The Greens are a political party. Those who vote for them owe no fealty to the Democratic party. If Gore wanted them to vote for him he should have appealed to them. He didn't and didn't get their votes.

If the Greens, or anyone, doesn't vote for Trump or Hillary, neither Trump or Hillary gain a vote.

0 - 0 = 0

 

Cheese Sandwich

(9,086 posts)
24. Good point they're in huge trouble.
Tue Jun 7, 2016, 04:36 PM
Jun 2016

I don't actually think Trump is going to beat Hillary. But this poll is also presented for consideration as one piece of info.

 

eastwestdem

(1,220 posts)
25. The only way they will look worse is if Sanders supporters remain stubborn.
Tue Jun 7, 2016, 04:37 PM
Jun 2016

But I have faith that the majority will support our nominee.

 

Cheese Sandwich

(9,086 posts)
47. I'm personally aware of at least 20 lifelong Democratic voters who have vowed never Hillary
Tue Jun 7, 2016, 05:29 PM
Jun 2016

Just look at how many long time DU members have been banned or walked away and that should give you a clue. DU is a bastion of pragmatic liberalism, very anti-Nader, very anti third party, and yet even here you can see it.

There's potential for Hillary to crash in the general election.

You call it stubborn but nobody owns anyone's vote. You have to earn the votes by appealing to people's interests and ideas.

onenote

(42,714 posts)
54. With Trump as the only realistic alternative, a lifelong Democrat would be selling out
Tue Jun 7, 2016, 06:00 PM
Jun 2016

the groups that have been most loyal to the Democratic party to not vote for the Democratic nominee whoever he or she is.

That would make me question how committed they are to some of the most deeply ingrained features of the modern Democratic party -- protecting racial, ethnic, religious minorities, the disabled, women's rights, freedom of speech -- all things that Trump threatens.

LenaBaby61

(6,974 posts)
39. True...
Tue Jun 7, 2016, 04:50 PM
Jun 2016

And especially if Trump/his camp continues to insult EVERYBODY. He's back to criticizing women today.

Trump Campaign: Female Judges Could Be Biased, Too
Trump’s campaign continues to defend his racist attacks against a federal judge.


To defend real estate mogul Donald Trump‘s claim that a federal judge is biased against him because of his “Mexican heritage,” his campaign spokeswoman argued on Monday that it also would be acceptable to accuse a female judge of bias on the basis of gender.

“Well, it would depend on her past and decisions she made as a judge,” Trump’s national spokeswoman Katrina Pierson said.


Noting that Trump’s sister is also a federal judge, CNN’s Wolf Blitzer asked Pierson if it would be “awful” to accuse her of bias “in regard to some case because she’s a woman.”

But Pierson would not rule it out, adding that “there is no question that there are activist judges in this country.”

“CNN gives a platform to Black Lives Matter, and that entire premise is injustice in the system due to race,” she said.

While top Republicans have condemned Trump’s attacks against U.S. District Judge Gonzalo Curiel, who Trump claims has “an absolute conflict” in presiding over a fraud case involving Trump University because his parents are from Mexico, Pierson insisted her boss is correct to go after Curiel. Trump has pledged that he will continue the attacks, and on Sunday, argued that a Muslim judge could also be biased against him.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-judge-attacks_us_57560111e4b0b60682deb6e3

I truly hope he and his campaign continue to implode

 

tonyt53

(5,737 posts)
31. This is early June. Obama was behind right now also.
Tue Jun 7, 2016, 04:40 PM
Jun 2016

Lay off the polls until Labor Day. Also, better take a look at the electoral college map. Hillary practiced using it on Bernie.

LenaBaby61

(6,974 posts)
35. Yep...
Tue Jun 7, 2016, 04:45 PM
Jun 2016

Too early for polls.

Besides, and as others have said, I trust more in the electoral college than head 2 head match-ups, especially this early on. Pretty soon you'll have someone with a right-winged poll saying that Trump will win California in the GE

onenote

(42,714 posts)
33. National polls don't tell the true story of an election that will be fought out in a few states
Tue Jun 7, 2016, 04:43 PM
Jun 2016

And polls taken five months in advance -- before the conventions, the VP selections, before the debates before any of the multitude of things that can impact an election -- are worth diddly squat.

sadoldgirl

(3,431 posts)
46. It seems that many people here forget or
Tue Jun 7, 2016, 05:17 PM
Jun 2016

don't want to recognize that Trump has more votes
than Reagan did, and that the repugs turnout was
a heck of a lot larger than that of the dems.

Lord Magus

(1,999 posts)
55. So Trump wins if there's an option to vote for a mythical "other candidate" that's whoever you want?
Tue Jun 7, 2016, 06:24 PM
Jun 2016

Good thing no such option exists on the actual ballot. Any 3rd-party options on the ballot are specific people, not each voter's personal fantasy candidate.

And it's comical that anyone would actually expect non-entities like Johnson & Stein to get those kind of numbers when the actual voting happens.

Il_Coniglietto

(373 posts)
56. What a poor analysis they did of their own poll
Tue Jun 7, 2016, 06:44 PM
Jun 2016

Of course the unnamed "other" would do well...I'm sure a significant number of those respondents were supporters of the only other major party candidate still running. If Cruz or Rubio were still running instead of Sanders, the results would probably be flipped (Clinton slightly ahead). Plus it's similar to when pollsters ask if you'd vote for Generic Democrat vs Generic Republican. The elusive "perfect" candidate that doesn't exist will always perform better than an actual person.

I imagine if this very same question gets asked in October there will be a very different result.

Il_Coniglietto

(373 posts)
60. Yep. The media need a horse race and they'll do anything to create it.
Tue Jun 7, 2016, 07:36 PM
Jun 2016

What likely path does Donald Trump have to victory through the Electoral College? Demographics are firmly against him. He'd basically need his best case scenario in nearly every single state. But that story doesn't grab viewers' attention so instead the media will twist themselves into pretzels trying to make this election close, and this poll is exhibit A.

There'll be plenty more of this for the next five months. We just need to work hard and grind it out: canvass, phone bank, and GOTV. We do that and we'll be watching Hillary's inauguration in January

Il_Coniglietto

(373 posts)
63. Except for the obvious one?
Tue Jun 7, 2016, 07:50 PM
Jun 2016

Tensions are high on the Democratic side right now after a contentious primary season. Meanwhile, Trump has been unopposed for over a month. The Republicans looked far more likely to have an actual brokered convention after their primaries nearly devolved into a literal "dick measuring" contest. And yet, just a few weeks later, most of them have fallen in line behind DayGlo Orange.

And though some here may not want to admit it, the same will happen on the Democratic side.

That NBC is asking and releasing this poll while the Democrats still have two candidates is not accidental. If they ask the same questions closer to the general, I think we'll see a very different result.

onenote

(42,714 posts)
72. The SDs are aware of something you apparently don't appreciate
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 08:31 AM
Jun 2016

It bears repeating: National polls mean little in a race that will be fought out in a limited number of states.

And polls taken five months in advance -- before the conventions, before the VP selections, before the debates, before any of the multitude of things that can impact an election -- are worth diddly squat.

 

pinebox

(5,761 posts)
77. If Gary Johnson is allowed onto the national debate stage
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 08:39 AM
Jun 2016

ALL bets are off. ALL.

He is pushing for it now http://www.koat.com/news/gary-johnson-pushes-to-enter-presidential-debates/39923374 and his message would resonate with a lot of people. This would be a serious problem for both Democrats and Republicans.

 

That Guy 888

(1,214 posts)
83. American libertarians are big business laissez-faire capitalist.
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 08:50 AM
Jun 2016

They were created by big business, so I hope they aren't a viable option. I've only seen republicans and liberals whose sole focus is legalizing marijuana vote for them.

 

pinebox

(5,761 posts)
85. There's more to it
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 09:01 AM
Jun 2016

My other half is a true Libertarian, not this faux-Paul crap. We have some interesting discussions but you know what? We agree on a LOT of things. Legalizing pot is what you always hear but there's more;

less war
less Gov't intrusion (Patriot act, NSA, wiretapping, internet)
Mostly pro choice
Against the bailout
Cutting defense
Separation of church and state issues
Anti death penalty
Pro illegal drug legalization
Vouchers for child care
Pro alternative fuels and energy

That's just the tip of the iceberg. If this guy is allowed on the stage, he is going to be propelled upwards.

 

BobbyDrake

(2,542 posts)
80. "Research has shown that third-party candidates often receive more support in public opinion polls
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 08:43 AM
Jun 2016

than they actually receive at the ballot box"

I guess you didn't read that part? Or just ignored it? Nevermind, I know which one it was.

TwilightZone

(25,471 posts)
88. Stein was polling 2-3% in 2012. She ended up with 0.35%. Johnson, polling as high as 8%, got 1%.
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 10:14 AM
Jun 2016

The results this cycle will be similar. As you noted, rarely do third-parties draw their poll numbers.

Sancho

(9,070 posts)
92. It doesn't matter - Hillary will be the Democratic nominee...win or lose.
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 11:55 AM
Jun 2016

Democrats need to rally and win the election.

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