2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumSanders: Clinton can't declare victory if she wins the voting
http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/04/politics/bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton-convention/index.htmlSays Clinton needs to win a super majority of pledged delegates to be considered the winner.
Which, of course, is dishonest spin as Clinton will have much larger majorities than did Barack Obama in 2008.
He added that he will not recognize her win and will contest the nomination at the convention.
Looks like his own ego matters more to him than protecting the country from Trump.
Claims to be a populist reformer who doesn't believe that the will of the voters should carry the day.
He just forfeited a speaking slot at the convention. He still gets to watch Hillary give her acceptance speech.
We'll beat Trump without him.
scscholar
(2,902 posts)Can we not keep posting about Bernie's desires to disrupt?
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)welfare of the country and the planet is more important than his sense of entitlement and ego.
When he admits that the fact he lost means he doesn't get to be the nominee, sure.
We have 12 more days to address his attempt to steal the nomination before we treat him as irrelevant, for good.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)And no one would in the Democratic base would be left out in the cold in a Sanders administration.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Demsrule86
(68,668 posts)He would have stolen the primary...but it won't happen. He can carry on and embarrass himself...the supers won't help him. He just looks small and spiteful.
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)realize it but that is the reality.
Demsrule86
(68,668 posts)I don't know why they make me so angry. I have waited for this moment my entire life ...to see a woman nominated by one of the major parties...and I want to enjoy it. I like Hillary very much too so that makes it sweeter. She is a fighter so am I .
Gothmog
(145,558 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)If it is over?
OnDoutside
(19,970 posts)[link:
|ProudProgressiveNow
(6,129 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)baldguy
(36,649 posts)He won't graciously accept his defeat, and keeps lying to his supporters saying that he can still win.
That what stealing looks like.
tarheelsunc
(2,117 posts)pandr32
(11,612 posts)...and he has already shown his petty vengeful side, and His campaign (under his control) has been caught cheating already.
Nice try.
MillennialDem
(2,367 posts)a damn about himself.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)No petty ego issues there, nope.
MillennialDem
(2,367 posts)doesn't care about the fame and prestige like Hillary does.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)and get a Democratic congress elected so he can lobby for his platform?
That is certainly what I would expect if I took him at his word.
MillennialDem
(2,367 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)about him.
I hope I have to write a post eating a whole pie full of crow
Arkansas Granny
(31,530 posts)He doesn't sound like a mam who is concerned with party unity, only his own ego.
Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)If you want to make up your own rules as you go along, Hillary was already declared the impending nominee over a year ago.
annavictorious
(934 posts)The Sanders side needs to print a glossary of berniespeak terms so those of us in the reality based world will be better able to follow this week's blather points.
TeacherB87
(249 posts)He was against superdelegates before he was for them. He decried caucuses as undemocratic before he benefitted from them and went silent. He had nothing to say about the Democratic primary process until it was already too late to change anything. Go read about the 2008 Democratic Primary and Convention (our last close nominating contest) to see how this works. When she gets the majority of pledged delegates (2026) it's done.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)beachbum bob
(10,437 posts)of everything....nothing but an old sore loser embarrassing himself more and more every day almost like senility
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)If he is going PUMA, no enemies inside the gates.
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)upaloopa
(11,417 posts)Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)Demsrule86
(68,668 posts)Obama managed to win...face it your candidate lost.
Lord Magus
(1,999 posts)Lil Missy
(17,865 posts)Response to Lil Missy (Reply #157)
Name removed Message auto-removed
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)How do you tell a bunch of informed, smart adults that we all have to pretend a while longer cause he wants us to?
bravenak
(34,648 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)And a certain Senators should be stripped of his committee assignments
BobbyDrake
(2,542 posts)Almost as if he's not being held to the same standard to which he is holding her. #hypocritemuch?
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)#berniemath
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)Even when the votes come from descendants of the victims of the Confederacy.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)#berniemath
PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)TwilightZone
(25,479 posts)lancer78
(1,495 posts)have fewer delegates than blue states based on population. California only has 50% more people then Texas, but has more then double the number of pledged delegates. Sanders lost because from Louisiana to North Carolina and everywhere in-between except Florida, he only won 10 counties.
PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)TwilightZone
(25,479 posts)Henhouse
(646 posts)uponit7771
(90,364 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)hypocrisy.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Trots view democracy as a tool towards revolution, not something with intrinsic worth.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Hekate
(90,793 posts)0.79% -- 3/5 vote --- well done
Trust Buster
(7,299 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)brooklynite
(94,728 posts)...what do THEY know?
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Self-styled revolutionaries who don't believe in democracy tend to take extreme measures.
brooklynite
(94,728 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Henhouse
(646 posts)surrealAmerican
(11,364 posts)If you want to change the rules to allow superdelegates to vote early, that could be something to take up at the convention. It will not, however, be changed for this primary election.
It's not a question af "what they know". It's just the rules.
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)popular vote and that ain't Bernie. So unless you can control the future Bernie will not be the nominee and Hillary will so she wins on Tuesday with the majority of pledged delegates and the majority of the popular votes.
You can lie to yourself as long as you want but it won't change anything.
surrealAmerican
(11,364 posts)If there were, we would need some accurate way of determining the popular vote for one thing.
I can't control the future, and neither can you.
moriah
(8,311 posts)I really, really am.
I will even give him enough time to make his case to Washington, DC voters, as they should have representation too, even if it's unlikely just based on those farking demographics I hate pollsters using to divide us.
But I expect a consession before June 21st, if Hillary wins enough pledged delegates and we split all the Superdelegates that haven't already chosen Bernie 50/50 between the candidates to have 2383 under that scenario. (That's giving him like 50 freebies I think now).
If not, if he expects the Superdelegates to overturn the will of the people after arguing they were unDemocratic to have at all, he's just going to look like a farking hypocrite. And I don't think he is one.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)And they'll make their plans known next week. nt
moriah
(8,311 posts)... will flip, along with the undeclareds, to Bernie to push him over 2383.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)andym
(5,445 posts)Reagan went to the GOP convention and tried to switch the "uncommitted" and non-pledged Ford delegates to him to beat Ford and he came very close. Just like Hillary, Ford had the majority of pledged delegates but not enough to claim the nomination without the "superdelegates."
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)A switch is a switch.
andym
(5,445 posts)The big difference is that Reagan had a swarm of conservatives holding some power in the GOP thanks to the conservative movement after Goldwater. Bernie has far fewer progressives/liberal superdelegates to appeal to, since the FDR democrats are long gone, and the modern Democratic party is rather moderate.
Gomez163
(2,039 posts)andym
(5,445 posts)And it will be very difficult to convince the superdelegates to switch as it stands right now.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)outside to the street protestors.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Lord Magus
(1,999 posts)baldguy
(36,649 posts)Demsrule86
(68,668 posts)the supers in Democratic circles vote for the candidate with the most delegates...it is to prevent such a spectacle...one vote she's in and Bernie is escorted out at this point.
dsc
(52,166 posts)PA then, and now, doesn't require its delegates to be pledged to their candidate. If you are going to site history it behooves you to actually know history.
andym
(5,445 posts)It was not only Pennsylvania in 1976. And there were enough "uncommitted" delegates to sway the nomination, just as there are non-legally bound superdelegates in the Democratic Party today. Of course these superdelegates can commit to any candidate, but there is no legal binding and they can change their mind as some did in 2008, switching from Clinton to Obama at the end of the primaries. It's really quite the same, but for the tendency of many Democratic superdelegates (uncommitted delegates) to announce their preference in advance.
In 1976 Some of the "uncommitted" delegates were open changing allegiances: The Mississippi delegates in 1976 were the prime example-- they were actually pretty much controlled by a party boss, and at the last minute decided for Ford swinging the election to him.
http://www.npr.org/2016/03/13/470271684/1976-the-last-time-republicans-duked-it-out-to-the-last-heated-minute
"There were debates, handshakes and deals before a final vote that all came down to the state of Mississippi.
"Had Mississippi stayed with us instead of going as a block to Ford on the procedural question that we raised, I think we might have been nominated," says Reagan campaign manager John Sears. "But it was that close."
It was so close that:
"Tom Korologos, official proceedings with RNC: There was a delegate that broke her leg, or hurt her leg. The convention floor is raised four or five inches so they can put the wires underneath, and the phones and the lights and all that. So its a wooden floor. Well this one lady stepped off the floor and hurt her leg pretty bad, and probably broke it. And she was sitting there writhing in pain, and they wanted to haul her off to the emergency room or to the hospital. But I remember
we wouldnt let her go because her alternate was a Reagan delegate. We couldnt afford to lose the votes, so we got some delegate doctor. I think it was a congressman from Kentucky as I remember. They came over and put a splint on her leg made out of convention programs or out of something, and made her sit there for an extra hour until after the vote. Then they carried her off."
from http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/04/1976-convention-oral-history-213793?o=1
which I think is clearly in the mind of Bernie's team.
frazzled
(18,402 posts)Nothing but the Apollo's "Executioner" is going to get this man off the stage.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)like my dear old Dad used to say............ Get The Hook.....
Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)He won with super -delegates
Clinton will win with a mix of pledged and superdelegates.
When she hit 2383 she is the Presumptive nominee.
It is that simple.
Time to get aboard the "Let's kick Trumps Ass" bus.
apcalc
(4,465 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)Demsrule86
(68,668 posts)Destruction is easy...but let Bernie try to do what Roosevelt and Johnson did...he couldn't do it...because building things takes work...so Bernie can easily destroy all progressive accomplishments since Roosevelt...no doubt. He can bern it down and destroy that which he could never create. People like Bernie never accomplish anything.
senz
(11,945 posts)You need to know that. We've talked about it at length on this site. If you want education, I can give you some when I have more time. Let me know.
Bernie goes back to FDR/Kennedy/Johnson/Carter. He is putting progressivism back on the map.
Reagan reversed the New Deal. Clinton, with Al From, changed the Democratic Party so that it no longer stood for progressive ideals. The American people have suffered terribly as a result.
That's what this is all about.
Demsrule86
(68,668 posts)When Clinton arrived in 92 Bush I was well on his way to re-election. We had lost the White House for 12 years. Those were not years where a liberal could win. Clinton did what he had to do to get elected. And he was far preferable to Bush...you all act like those times were the same sort of times as today. They were not...the Reagan revolution was going strong...the only reason Clinton managed to win is he tacked to the middle and Perot ran. Clinton never had a majority...not once not ever....not even in the second term where Perot also ran and saved our bacon. You complain about what Clinton did ...but consider what the Republicans could have done during those years...the court picks alone would have destroyed liberal progress. And it is kind of ironic how it was a candidate not unlike Bernie Ted Kennedy( he later said his behavior during that time was one of his biggest regrets)...who helped elect Reagan by contesting the primary. Ted also blocked health care out of spite during the Carter years...he regretted that as well. I am a great admirer of Ted Kennedy. One of my friends worked for him. He was the lion in the Senate in later years. But there is no doubt he hurt this country by helping to elect Reagan. And Ted regretted it and spoke publicly about it and put in his books. You should consider the terrible harm a Trump presidency would cause. Bernie will not be the nominee, but we still need to win. I never thought to see a worse Republican candidate than Reagan...But Trump is that guy.
baldguy
(36,649 posts)He has the unmitigated arrogance to believe he could be President without being able to select a campaign staff to get his message out, and without having the temperament & ideas to attract required number of supporters.
senz
(11,945 posts)He took his campaign from 60 points behind a year ago to neck and neck today, and he did it without superpacs, MSM support, and political power. He did it from scratch. Your candidate had it all set up before she announced.
The trend in these primaries show Bernie gaining gaining gaining. He is amazing.
Mohammed_Lee
(38 posts)Tarc
(10,476 posts)I do not know how clearly it can be stated, Bernie; This-Is-Not-A-Thing. Superdelegates are not going to flip on the pledged delegate winner based upon your imaginary polling vs. Trump or an imaginary Emailgate indictment.
As we used to say in Mass, it's ovah.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Ego over country.
senz
(11,945 posts)baldguy
(36,649 posts)If he packed it in & gave a concession speech, he'd have a seat at the table & have the opportunity to have his positions on his issues included as part of the party platform.
On this path he gets to play the unfairly wronged bleeding-heart martyr. Problem is he's not bleeding, and it wasn't unfair.
senz
(11,945 posts)He's trying to change things for the better.
And we, his supporters, do not want him to give up before it's over.
baldguy
(36,649 posts)If he casts that aside, that will set his cause back another decade.
Raastan
(266 posts)He has no interest in anyone other than himself and his Frankenstein campaign.
How any Democrat can have any respect left for him is beyond me.
CrowCityDem
(2,348 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)msongs
(67,441 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Fitting, actually.
annavictorious
(934 posts)But the media will refer to her as the presumptive nominee.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)TimPlo
(443 posts)as many of her supporters are. She knows how a nominee is chosen. Many like to point at Obama being the "winner" in 2008 but he only got that because after 4 days after the last primary Clinton had meetings with top DNC officials and Super delegates where it was most likely they said they where firm in their support of Obama. Then she meet with Obama and there some agreement was made where she dropped out and at that point was when Obama became the nominee. Did none of you follow the 2008 elections?
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Obama had already been declared the presumptive nominee without her input.
Does Bernie need a sit down with DWS for him to know they won't steal the nomination for him?
Demsrule86
(68,668 posts)We will not wait for the convention to declare a presumptive nominee it is way to close to the election...Bernie needs to shut it down one way or the other...and I am sick of tantrums...she will win either this weekend or on Tuesday...period end of story.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Count in it.
The reason she will declare victory is,... well,... because she will be victorious.
Gothmog
(145,558 posts)This is really sad
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)All of that mass adoration, the huge crowds, must be intoxicating and addictive.
beachbumbob
(9,263 posts)June 7...,9pm est
Response to geek tragedy (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Lucinda
(31,170 posts)Demsrule86
(68,668 posts)He did than anyone expected but not good enough.
handmade34
(22,757 posts)joshcryer
(62,276 posts)SidDithers
(44,228 posts)then no way, no how, should he get a speaking spot at the convention.
Sid
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Winner gets to give the big acceptance speech.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)And the loser can give a concession speech.
Sid
Demsrule86
(68,668 posts)I expect her to wait until the last night which is traditional...as for Bernie, if he doesn't concede and endorse before the convention...no speech and no platform goodies either...one vote and out he goes.
Stuckinthebush
(10,847 posts)The roll call will commence and she will win the nomination around Texas. That'll be fun.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Zero committee assignments for Sanders.
Txbluedog
(1,128 posts)Remember Cruz was saying the morning of Indiana he was going to continue no matter what and as soon as the results came in he suspended. After Tuesday, there will be a lot of people including POTUS who will be saying enough is enough
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)H does not have the votes from delegates to be declared the winner. That's what the rules state.
Only at the convention, after the rest of the votes are cast and counted, will anyone be declared the winner.
All this moaning and whining from the H camp is childish. The rules were set ahead of time and now some of the H camp is upset the rules are being played by Bernie to his fullest extent.
Get over that H is not the winner. She never has been, and at this rate never will be.
This is how adults see the election. I suggest yall act that way.
jcgoldie
(11,646 posts)learned that in grade school.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)H is not, and may never be the winner. Denial of that is kinda weird, eh?
jcgoldie
(11,646 posts)Almost seems real.
Lord Magus
(1,999 posts)In 08 Obama was declared the presumptive nominee on June 3. He had 1828.5 pledged delegates. The threshold for the nomination that year was 2210 total delegates. His 478 superdelegates put him over the top. Nobody objected then that the superdelegates wouldn't vote until August 27, because that was when all delegates voted. Just like all delegates will vote on July 27 this year.
That's the difference between a presumptive nominee and a nominee. A presumptive nominee has enough delegates to win, but the delegates haven't voted yet. A nominee is someone who's actually been formally nominated by their party.
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)Bernie is not going to concede
Nobody objected because Obama was not in legal trouble and because Obama was clearly the better candidate.
Hillary is weak. She showed how weak she was in 2008 and again in 2016. All her money, fame and connections and she couldn't outright win the delegates needed to put her in the winner's circle again!
Obama has not endorsed her. He's no fool. He is waiting until after the FBI report and the convention. We, who are not Bernie supporters, should be so wise.
BootinUp
(47,187 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Nonhlanhla
(2,074 posts)a woman finally wins the primaries of one of the major political parties in the United States, and a man refuses to recognize it.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)skylucy
(3,743 posts)HILLARY 2016
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)msanthrope
(37,549 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)lunamagica
(9,967 posts)handmade34
(22,757 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Maven
(10,533 posts)uponit7771
(90,364 posts)eastwestdem
(1,220 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)to get into the grass root, local races and work their way thru the system. Took bagger about 8 yrs. Not a long time. He can develop a fuckin revolution, instead of this lazy ass approach off the back of the Democratic Party.
eastwestdem
(1,220 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)A couple years and he could really have this thing moving in the right direction.
eastwestdem
(1,220 posts)CherokeeDem
(3,709 posts)I don't think he thought he had a chance in hell to win the nomination when he flimflammed the Democratic Party into running as a Democrat. The Party shouldn't have allowed it.
He's whined about everything including the unfair rules, then admitted his campaign knew the rules going in. Now that he has a taste of the big time, he doesn't want to go home. This is not about his ideals, this is about his ego.
Sanders is an embarrassment and a very sore loser.
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)Jumped
morningfog
(18,115 posts)Demsrule86
(68,668 posts)will not be permitted to give a campaign speech at the convention..he concede and endorses or no speech and platform goodies. I am sick of Sander who is more and more acting very badly.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)It makes no sense. Both would be active candidate.
Again, link? I looking for a source, not yours and other anonymous posters' wishes.
hack89
(39,171 posts)there is nothing to contest.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Neither he nor Clinton gave a speech before the voting.
I'm sure Bernie will claim this means the convention is 'rigged.'
Lord Magus
(1,999 posts)Demsrule86
(68,668 posts)He could speak. I know of no rule that prevents it...however, a losing candidate who refuses to concede and endorse won't be allowed to and with good reason. Hillary Clinton has been generous to allow him any say at all...if he continues with this behavior...he loses all convention goodies, including a speech and the ability to influence the platform...one vote and she is no longer the presumptive nominee but the actual Democratic nominee... and Bernie goes out on the street escorted by security no doubt.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Candidates for the nomination don't get prime time speaking slots to argue against each other. The winner gives an acceptance speech, the loser gets to watch.
His gamble to take.
basselope
(2,565 posts)Demsrule86
(68,668 posts)basselope
(2,565 posts)The real battle is won with independents. Clinton will not get them to turn out for her.
She has no viable path.
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)basselope
(2,565 posts)Renew Deal
(81,871 posts)Welcome home partner.
basselope
(2,565 posts)Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)basselope
(2,565 posts)baldguy
(36,649 posts)If you don't actively support the Democratic nominee, then you tacitly support the Republican candidate.
Sorry, but there are more than 2 choices on the ballot.
baldguy
(36,649 posts)And you've already said you won't vote for Trump's opponent.
basselope
(2,565 posts)So, I must be supporting his opponent, then.. right??
Hmm, your logic seems flawed.
baldguy
(36,649 posts)You're conflating the two - voting for & supporting - and they are not the same thing.
basselope
(2,565 posts)I am not supporting either.
Your logic is that if I don't vote for one of them, I am de-facto supporting/voting for the other. Thus, just think of it as me not voting for Trump.
B/c frankly in the war of the lesser of two evils... I am not sure which one would win that fight.
But I am done voting for evil in any form.
baldguy
(36,649 posts)That's how it works. We don't have proportional voting; we don't have a parliamentary democracy. The candidate with the most votes wins the whole enchilada. If you don't like Trump the best option to ensure his defeat is to CAST YOUR VOTE FOR the person most likely to defeat him. In November, that will be Hillary Clinton. If you don't vote for her, then you're supporting Trump.
I don't like Clinton OR Trump.
Therefor I will not vote for either of them.
baldguy
(36,649 posts)Embrace your inner fascist. Feel the hate flow through you. You know you want to.
basselope
(2,565 posts)Are you telling me I should vote for Trump???
baldguy
(36,649 posts)I'm sure you're happy to know that Trump is counting on your support - and that of the other BoBs.
basselope
(2,565 posts)Since that is "the way it works".
baldguy
(36,649 posts)basselope
(2,565 posts)It's why you sound so silly.
I will not vote for evil.
Thus, neither can have my vote.
baldguy
(36,649 posts)You want to help Trump. That's a de facto vote for evil.
basselope
(2,565 posts)baldguy
(36,649 posts)The Republicans have spent decades & millions of dollars trying to suppress votes in favor of Democrats. Why are you going out of your way to voluntarily help them?
basselope
(2,565 posts)I'm helping Clinton by not voting for Trump.
But that doesn't mean I am going to vote for someone as unqualified as her.
bvf
(6,604 posts)Every time you say this, it increases the perception of you as a complete idiot.
And I've heard that from both sides of the camp, just so everyone knows.
Demsrule86
(68,668 posts)What a sore loser. she is called the presumptive nominee until the first ballot of the convention then she is the nominee...he can go and make a fool out of himself, but it won't change anything. She won, and he lost.
SCantiGOP
(13,873 posts)I do agree with your OP.
Lil Missy
(17,865 posts)Renew Deal
(81,871 posts)eastwestdem
(1,220 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)"Excuse me! I'm losing."
Waiting For Everyman
(9,385 posts)but why let a little thing like the fact of it make a difference. Excerpt from the link:
It's just more of the Clinton cheating that we've seen throughout.
And cheating isn't winning.
Hekate
(90,793 posts)Sounds like we have a lot of people living in the reality based community in my state, and that the BSers at DU who are swearing we have to never hurt their feelings (by bringing up reality) or they'll stamp their feet and stay home ....are not exactly speaking for the majority of BSers in real life.
aikoaiko
(34,183 posts)Number23
(24,544 posts)I'm really not interested in seeing let alone hearing him at the convention.
Number23
(24,544 posts)Warren has not endorsed a candidate in the Democratic primary fight. But behind the scenes, discussions between the Warren and Clinton camps have been markedly increasing, especially as the freshman senator has begun to a play a more prominent role attacking Donald Trump, a source close to Warren has told CNN.
I know EW was thrown under the bus a while ago by Sanders supporters but I think this will make them weep even harder about doing so.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)follow will be the biggest public humiliation since Brazil's World Cup match vs Germany.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)That is my take.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Clinton would go scorched earth in 2008 after some of the really awful stuff she included in the kitchen sink strategy.
We'll see soon enough.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Not to mention all the hyperbolic noise about lost respect and how dare he and yadda yadda.
Let's wait until all the voting is done, and see if he doesn't do the right thing. I think he will.
Then we'll see if the Clinton people this time around can be as all water-under-the-bridge with him as Team Obama was with her, in 2008.
senz
(11,945 posts)I explained it here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=2127588
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)actually, in a relatively proportional fashion to the percentages that the candidates received. That seems to me the most democratic way to approach it.
Short answer, if the voting is finished and she's ahead, she's won. That's how I look at it.
senz
(11,945 posts)is the one who is polling increasingly poorly against Trump. Bernie stands a far better chance to beat Trump than Hillary does, so that could affect how the superdelegates decide to vote. Also, we don't know how close the totals will be after the primaries are finished. Plus, Hillary has the cloud of an FBI investigation that could result in an indictment hanging over her head. The superdelegates may very well take all of this into account.
Bernie is smart to stay in.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)That's where I'm at.
senz
(11,945 posts)baldguy
(36,649 posts)You're putting a requirement on Clinton and not applying it equally to Sanders - that doesn't exist in the first place.
senz
(11,945 posts)The primary results so far are so close that neither candidate can reach 2383 on pledged delegates, and the superdelegates don't vote until July25.
So nobody has 2383 until the voting is done at the convention.
aikoaiko
(34,183 posts)...that's not really the point.
It's really simple. He's campaigning for every vote and every delegate and making his pitch to the super delegates.
It's near impossible for this to work, but it is permissible. It won't hurt HRC. Allowing Bernie to have full access to the nomination process speaks well for us. HRC has already made Trump her focus.
What's the harm and letting this play out to its inevitable conclusion?
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)For another, we saw the freak show in Nevada. His people will raise hell and claim corruption and that the convention was rigged, etc.
Third, it's immoral for a Democrat to try to disenfranchise other Democrats, even if that attempt is laughably weak.
aikoaiko
(34,183 posts)There is often some drama at national conventions. It's not a big deal. As long as Bernie delegates are treated respectfully it will be OK.
I understand the disenfranchising thing with the SD but I think he's being clever by showing HRC the dangers of allowing SD.
HRC loved suprdelefate authority to declare before a single primary (and 400+ did) but now they see the problem with their potential to go against the majority of voters.
Either way I think it will work out fine.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)get a slot. If his purpose is to try to undermine her, nope.
aikoaiko
(34,183 posts)Not necessarily the usual nominee love fest or self-promotion for the next election cycle
He has already pubically recognized Trump as a dangerous buffoon and will support the nominee, but I would expect Bernie to also say some challenging things about the party.
Lord Magus
(1,999 posts)Or if he really does intend to take it to the convention, no. Just no. He doesn't get to dictate that the Democratic Party wait an extra month & a half to start the general election campaign.
BreakfastClub
(765 posts)claims of vote rigging, saying sd's are undemocratic and then doing a 180 and saying he wants them to overturn the vote, etc. I hope this is just another ones of his lies.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Maybe he'll evolve once all the primaries have ended and we've all had a chance to vote.
I thought that was a mark of character?
baldguy
(36,649 posts)It's a mark of a lack of character.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)We'll see what happens, won't we.
ETA: it's funny to see what the crowd that gives voting for the IWR and "marrigae is a sacred bond between a man and a woman" a pass, considers a qualification for a lack of character.
aikoaiko
(34,183 posts)I don't think Bernie is going to burn it down.
I think he's fighting for a liberal cause and wants to do it justice by fighting until the end.
Obviously HRC has already stated to full out slam Trumo and she will be considered the presumptive nominee very soon.
senz
(11,945 posts)A candidate must win 2,383 delegates at the national convention in order to win the 2016 Democratic presidential nomination.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries,_2016
As of 5/31/16, Hillary Clinton had 1770 pledged delegates and Bernie Sanders had 1500 pledged delegates.
http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/election-2016/delegate-targets/
Hillary needs 613 more delegates to reach 2383. There are only 781 pledged delegates left in the remaining nine primaries: Virgin Islands, PR, CA Mont NJ, NM, ND SD, DC
Because the candidates' totals are so close, it is extremely unlikely that either candidate can reach 2383 pledged delegates from the primaries alone.
The remainder will have to be supplied by superdelegates. The superdelegates do not vote until July 25.
Therefore, we will not have a nominee until the superdelegates vote on July 25th.
Those are the rules.
Bernie has every right to stay in the race and millions of his supporters want him to stay in.
Lil Missy
(17,865 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)because that means his entire legacy goes up in smoke.
Lil Missy
(17,865 posts)MFM008
(19,818 posts)abut HRC delegates.
B Calm
(28,762 posts)amount of delegates according to the rules to be declared the winner, I will support my candidate in the contested convention. That's the way it is, deal with it!
Demsrule86
(68,668 posts)Hillary becomes the presumptive nominee...at the convention, she becomes the nominee officially.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)DNC next week.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)namely that Bernie doesn't need to do anything but what he thinks he needs to do. Having listened to and shaken hands with a beaming Bill Clinton a few hours ago I am pretty certain that California is in the bag for Hillary and that means there's little Sanders can do to change the outcome of this election including a 3rd party run if he thinks he needs to do that. It won't end well for him but it won't change what happens in November much at all.
bvf
(6,604 posts)some people are of the outcome, the louder the protestations to that very effect become?
Something very weird in all of that, as if they were either still trying to convince themselves, or that they were simply afraid of the dark, and this were a way of constantly fumbling for the light switch.
There is no nominee until the convention. Insist away to the contrary all you like. It's as amusing now to see as it was before South Carolina. The added urgency is just icing.
Demsrule86
(68,668 posts)You don't get to decide. Now take a deep breath and repeat after me," I concede" .
baldguy
(36,649 posts)R B Garr
(16,976 posts)That's the kind of press he'll be getting now. It's going to look like desperation when he tries to keep himself in the picture after the two primary candidates have already moved on to the general. Meet the Press is right: he looks small.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)R B Garr
(16,976 posts)My normal NBC channel is playing Gymnastics and didn't have the usual 8:00 a.m. showing, but I caught the tail-end of the earlier showing when I heard that. So it's at the end of the program. I'll try to look for it.
R B Garr
(16,976 posts)from Lanhee Chen. Someone else also lamented about the populist candidate wanting to overturn the will of the people. Chuck Todd says, "I know. You just can't make this up."
http://www.nbc.com/meet-the-press/video/meet-the-press-june-5-2016/3045540
MineralMan
(146,331 posts)I'm sorry to hear Senator Sanders say such things. It's a sad day in US politics, I think.
Maven
(10,533 posts)At one point I was torn between him and Hillary. Now I'm done with him.
rock
(13,218 posts)I do believe that's true. Although we need a large majority of the Bernie supporters, apparently we have 80% (or higher) of them acting like adults and will vote for the Democratic candidate. That plus the reputed 25% of Republicans that say they prefer Hillary to Trump make it sound like a pretty good bet!
Surya Gayatri
(15,445 posts)RandySF
(59,225 posts)anotherproletariat
(1,446 posts)Soon...oh so soon, he will fade into obscurity. With a very damaged legacy.