2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumSurvey Shows the Hillary Clinton Supporters are More Racist Than Sanders Supporters
https://m.http://www.electionstudies.org/studypages/anes_pilot_2016/anes_pilot_2016_qnaire.pdf
That report showed both Bernie and Hillary supporters are racist.
Trust Buster
(7,299 posts)JRLeft
(7,010 posts)MattP
(3,304 posts)You folks are just going to keep diving down to the very bottom of the cesspit in this last two weeks. No grace at all.
Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)B Calm
(28,762 posts)Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)I can just feel it in my bones.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)I too pretend bones and tea-leaves tell us "what would have been," though science giggles at us.
Response to Trust Buster (Reply #1)
Name removed Message auto-removed
B Calm
(28,762 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)phleshdef
(11,936 posts)JimDandy
(7,318 posts)Number23
(24,544 posts)Haveadream
(1,630 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Number23
(24,544 posts)ever hope to.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Disappointing but instructive. It's like the Civil Rights Act has to be written and debated every day.
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)I've looked for some kind of report at the ANES site and can't find it there either.
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)Number23
(24,544 posts)candidate that are the most diverse, ethnically racially and economically as the more racist?
This is nothing but a classic and desperate attempt at projection. Like all of those online surveys that mysteriously (and hilariously) portrayed Clinton supporters as the more aggressive. Because Sanders supporters don't know anything about skewing online polls, do they?
Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)A lot of times you will need to login to view academic studies. That's totally normal.
To view the links to the data files for each study,
you must register and agree to our terms of use.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)I'm not sure if you need a school credential to login or what.
He named the reference. It took me 3 seconds to look that up.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)That's not my problem, not OP's problem, and not Mr. Dixon's problem.
The data is here: LINK
It's not a bogus story, it's just that you personally are not logged into the site to see the data.
American National Election Studies, ANES is a collaboration of Stanford University and the University of Michigan, with funding by the National Science Foundation.
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)TimPlo
(443 posts)My Grandfather a full blood Mohawk Tribe member would spout racist crap all time about Whites,blacks, and as he called them celestial(Asian). So don't think just because someone has different skin color they are either more or less likely to be racist than a white person.
JimDandy
(7,318 posts)A significant part of Clinton's campaign strategy has been based on not just exploiting, but creating racial divisiveness, for goodness sakes.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)I'd allege the same as well were the candidate I'm supporting in second place. No doubt, you have objective evidence to support "a significant part of Clinton's campaign strategy..." (If not, I understand-- statistical math can be difficult)
Number23
(24,544 posts)And it's clear from your response that you didn't watch the video or read the thread before responding to my post. Don't feel bad, I didn't watch the video either.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)DU links are sometimes to resources that are behind newspaper paywalls and registration walls.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)on the basis that you personally didn't register on the site to see the study.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Peacetrain
(22,877 posts)Exilednight
(9,359 posts)UMTerp01
(1,048 posts)First of all, who said that more Bernie Sanders supporters were racist? What I have pointed out is being sick of the lecturing from Bernie Sanders supporters about why the overwhelming majority of Black voters have chosen to support Hillary Clinton. As a matter of fact, I wouldn't doubt that Hillary Clinton's supporters may be more racist. Lest we forget the 2008 campaign and a lot of racist comments coming from her supporters about then Senator Obama. So the result of that survey doesn't surprise me.
What has bothered me is this sort of elite white liberalism tinged with racial overtones that somehow White liberals need to be telling Black folk about "Stockholm Syndrome" and "MississippiBurning" hashtags after Hillary had overwhelming Black support in the Mississippi. But neither of these can be put on the candidate (although Bernie has been dismissive of the southern vote, which was heavily African American).
But still...the topic here is racist supporters and that can't be put on Bernie Sanders nor Hillary Clinton. Because more Blacks are supporting Hillary of course there is going to be more commentary about the lack of Black support for Bernie Sanders and therefore this implication that Bernie supporters are just a bunch of racist White people. Not the case. You don't hear it talked about with Hillary's folk because she has the majority of Black votes. So while I hear what this vlog guy is saying I don't see how one candidate having more racist supporters has anything to do with why African Americans chose Hillary Clinton in overwhelming fashion to Bernie Sanders. But hell yes there are plenty of racist Democrats. In other shocking news, water is wet.
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)UMTerp01
(1,048 posts)Nobody should be lecturing anybody. Make the case for your candidate in a general manner but don't get all "why are you voting for Bernie" or "why are you voting for Hillary"
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)"Not good enough, Bernie." To add fuel to the fire
The, "Not good enough Bernie" article was illustrated (and replicated here on DU) with a picture of an injured or dead black man with his head being held up by two white men and depicted as the result of a game hunt. It was absolutely sickening to tie Bernie to such a racist and violent act. But you see, people didn't know Bernie. They were not aware of his civil rights activism
his arrest
his consistent criticism over the years of over-policing and criticism of the mass incarceration of black and brown youth. You see, Bernie hasn't, throughout his career promoted racist policies; whereas Hillary has. So they had to kneecap him early. Near simultaneously, 2 white conservative authors mirrored the the narrative.
So the narrative was threaded; and over months, stitched into a whole with BernieBros; and then tied off. It was a brilliant piece of advertising. More brilliant than the kneecapping of Gore smearing him as a fabricator
When Gore was probably the sincerest candidate since Carter.
UMTerp01
(1,048 posts)I never saw that picture of the dead Black man and the head being held up by two White men. Thats absolutely despicable.
Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)Now I don't want to let the Sanders campaign totally off the hook. Bernie left himself vulnerable to that kind of attack because he didn't anticipate it. He didn't really have much on his website about race issues until after he got attacked. But nothing warranted what was done. Like you said, they had the story written on the first day.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)What's a pilot survey and why is this story broadcast from a car?
p.s. answer: A pilot survey is a strategy used to test the questionnaire. In other words, it hasn't actually been administered yet. Also, there is no print story, and the linked document is a draft online questionnaire without any data.
And in other #BernieNews . . .
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Where did you find this link, anyway?
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)pnwmom
(108,978 posts)uponit7771
(90,344 posts)JRLeft
(7,010 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)uponit7771
(90,344 posts)JRLeft
(7,010 posts)BootinUp
(47,156 posts)Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)And read between the lines a little bit and you can see a lot of it on DU too.
And thank you for posting this.
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)I posted the link to the website connected to that study, with the text explaining the study and the dates it was conducted on, and you still say you don't believe there was a study because you don't see the actual data?
From that 'bogus' link:
you must register and agree to our terms of use.
There is a button on the study link page that takes you to the data center. Click on that and register to see the data.
ANES is committed to protect the privacy and confidentiality of our survey respondents and to provide our data in ways that are most useful to the user community. To that end, we now require people who want to download the data to agree to our terms of use. We also ask that you provide some information that will help us better serve the research community.
STUDY HIGHLIGHTS:
The ANES 2016 Pilot Study was conducted for the purpose of testing new questions and conducting methodological research to inform the design of future ANES studies, particularly the ANES 2016 Time Series. Much of the content was based on proposals from the ANES user community submitted through the Online Commons. The survey included questions about preferences in the presidential primary, stereotyping, the economy, discrimination, race and racial consciousness, police use of force, and numerous policy issues.
Data collection was conducted between January 22 and January 28, 2016. The sample consisted of 1,200 individuals who were part of an opt-in internet panel and who completed the 32 minute (median) questionnaire online. See the Codebook for more information about the sample.
http://www.electionstudies.org/studypages/anes_pilot_2016/anes_pilot_2016.htm?version=meter+at+null&module=meter-Links&pgtype=article&contentId=&mediaId=&referrer=&priority=true&action=click&contentCollection=meter-links-click
To see the data you need to register and I'm not giving them my e-mail address. You are welcome to go there. But even without the data in your face, the above text proves the study is real and you are just being deliberately obtuse or obstinate or you are trolling. Yes, I've gone through shit like this with you before. I should have expected this.
I'm not wasting any more time on this. I think it's pretty obvious to most people here the study is real.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)I'm talking about this link that I gave you in all the posts I replied to. Geeze...you obviously didn't even look at it.
Here, there is a link to the data (upper left where it says return to data center). But you have to register to have access to it.
http://www.electionstudies.org/studypages/anes_pilot_2016/anes_pilot_2016.htm?version=meter+at+null&module=meter-Links&pgtype=article&contentId=&mediaId=&referrer=&priority=true&action=click&contentCollection=meter-links-click
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)Buh Bye!
Plonk
merrily
(45,251 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)downloaded that
And yes, systemic is the word to use
underthematrix
(5,811 posts)MFM008
(19,814 posts)Noone is as racist as Trump supporters and Trump himself.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)#BernieSurvey.
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)Miles Archer
(18,837 posts)I agree with many of the comments here. I'm a Sanders supporter and no fan of Clinton but this kind of horseshit has no place on DU.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)At least not in public. Perhaps the study makes them uncomfortable?
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)That tells you all you need to know about this primary.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)It surveys, or claims to survey, attitudes among voters. If someone here can post a criticism of the methodology or the analysis I would read that also. But my opinion is that racism is endemic to the US electorate irrespective of party or candidate. To claim that HRC supporters are more racist than Sanders supporters is inflammatory.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Given this, either the name and number are not valid.........or they are. I have not and will not attempt to validate the information, but I am unsure what you refer to by an empty questionnaire. It appears to be the template for the questionnaire.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)But whether the lack of data in the post reflects an actual absence of data or is simply an incomplete post is another matter.
And again, racism and general hate is something that is part of both parties. Look at all the anti-Muslim hate speech at DU.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)And you know what? This kind of cr#p is what really ticks Hillary supporters off because it gets posted here constantly.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)A desperate search for something, anything, to derail HRC as a candidate.
She was not my first choice, but this type of grasping at straws is a bit foolish.
If you cannot find the information at the site, perhaps someone should contact the Doctor and let him know that his name is being referenced.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)I'd recommend nuking as it might not survive a jury.
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)gollygee
(22,336 posts)I could buy it if they got similar numbers for both, but 43% of Hillary supporters saying black people are lazy vs. 20% of Bernie supporters? I'm just not buying that. The "opt-in survey" got trolled.
It looks like people opted in and you just believed they were supporting whoever they told you they were supporting and you have to just trust that no one is lying about that. And that no one is trolling the "survey."
I do. however, agree with the Youtuber's comment that America as a whole has a lot of work to do.
I was interested when I first read this, assuming the numbers would be roughly the same and that it was an actual survey. But this just doesn't sound legitimate at all.
(I would also have to assume that only or mainly white people chose to opt in. Otherwise, it would be nice to have numbers on how many people of color were included.)
dubyadiprecession
(5,711 posts)That makes absolutely no sense.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)It could be that only or mainly white supporters opted in.
However, as I said in my post immediately before this, it looks like they got trolled.
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)In this country racism is still alive and well...all over.
MattP
(3,304 posts)Horrible post and attacking other dems is repulsive
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)racism in the Democratic party and in this nation.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)It's just another deceptive YouTube video. Now that you know you really should self-delete.
Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)It's a very reputable survey and site.
You just don't want to register for an account to get access to it.
That's your problem.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Or both?
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)but it is a link to the study, which is absolutely NOT bogus. You are becoming pretty repetitive.
http://www.electionstudies.org/studypages/anes_pilot_2016/anes_pilot_2016.htm?version=meter+at+null&module=meter-Links&pgtype=article&contentId=&mediaId=&referrer=&priority=true&action=click&contentCollection=meter-links-click
BootinUp
(47,156 posts)zappaman
(20,606 posts)Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)There's an article on this today on jacobin.com.
Nor do the ANES data furnish much evidence that Sanders voters have been motivated by white racial resentment. Among Democrats and non-Republican-leaning independents, in fact, white Clinton supporters were more inclined than white Sanders supporters to say that blacks are lazy or violent, and that black people should work their way up without special favors.
Only 22 percent of white Sanders supporters indicated that being white was extremely or very important to them (compared to 43 percent of white Clinton supporters).
By contrast, 74 percent of Sanders supporters (compared to 56 percent of Clinton supporters) reported that the difference in incomes between rich people and poor people has grown much larger in the last twenty years. Sanders supporters placed income inequality among their most important political issues twice as often as Clinton supporters.
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2016/06/bernie-sanders-achen-bartels-white-men-krugman-election-clinton/
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)Sanders voters, in short, are not the vanguard of a new, social democratictrending Democratic Party, but chiefly a group of disaffected white men and young people drawn to campaign labels, not policy preferences.
Of course, this is music to many ears. Nothing would please corporate Democrats and establishment pundits more than if the largest left-wing insurgency in American primary history could be exposed, once and for all, as an accidental combination of confused children and angry white dudes.
An ecstatic Paul Krugman, crowing that Achen and Bartels had laid bare the true essence of the movement, was even inspired to formulate a set of Myers Briggsstyle personality types for Sanders voters, in which every shade of fool, narcissist, lunatic, and failure was duly represented.
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2016/06/bernie-sanders-achen-bartels-white-men-krugman-election-clinton/
OK, now I, an old woman who is a Bernie supporter, officially hate Paul Krugman. I've disliked him for some time but this goes beyond the pale of nasty.
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)and yes...this link does prove the existence of this survey. Also in the link they explain that the survey also included some republican participants.
now I loved this paragraph:
And this (we keep saying this but Hillary supporters here don't want to accept it):
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)Even though it is a known fact to economists, Hillary supporters don't believe there is an income and wealth inequality problem in this country that has been growing for a long time. They either don't know about it, or don't accept it as truth.
I wonder why?
Generic Brad
(14,275 posts)Survey shows nothing.
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)Not the data...but there is a button to go back to the data center, where you might be able to find the data.
http://www.electionstudies.org/studypages/anes_pilot_2016/anes_pilot_2016.htm?version=meter+at+null&module=meter-Links&pgtype=article&contentId=&mediaId=&referrer=&priority=true&action=click&contentCollection=meter-links-click
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)Just posting this link again to this excellent article about Sander's supporters. Bernie people, you've gotta read this.
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2016/06/bernie-sanders-achen-bartels-white-men-krugman-election-clinton/
Now, for the study, I found a link to the ANES 2016 pilot study in an article (Writing in the New York Times, political scientists Christopher Achen and Larry Bartels) linked in the link above, and it says this about the study:
The ANES 2016 Pilot Study was conducted for the purpose of testing new questions and conducting methodological research to inform the design of future ANES studies, particularly the ANES 2016 Time Series. Much of the content was based on proposals from the ANES user community submitted through the Online Commons. The survey included questions about preferences in the presidential primary, stereotyping, the economy, discrimination, race and racial consciousness, police use of force, and numerous policy issues.
Data collection was conducted between January 22 and January 28, 2016. The sample consisted of 1,200 individuals who were part of an opt-in internet panel and who completed the 32 minute (median) questionnaire online. See the Codebook for more information about the sample.
http://www.electionstudies.org/studypages/anes_pilot_2016/anes_pilot_2016.htm?version=meter+at+null&module=meter-Links&pgtype=article&contentId=&mediaId=&referrer=&priority=true&action=click&contentCollection=meter-links-click
So yes, it is a real study. This is not the page with the study data on it...you may have to register or something to see that, but there is a button to click to go back to the data center.
BootinUp
(47,156 posts)Its a Socialist site that spins current Democratic party philosophy and the media as being racist to white working class people, why? Because whenever it is often pointed out that white working class voters don't vote for the D party that is being racist. So obvious. /sarcasm
TimPlo
(443 posts)I have a much broader base to build a winning coalition on, she said in the interview, citing an article by The Associated Press.
It found how Senator Obamas support among working, hard-working Americans, white Americans, is weakening again, and how whites in both states who had not completed college were supporting me.
BootinUp
(47,156 posts)a landmine, because it will be spun by whoever doesn't like them. Bottom line, polls showed something, she described it. BFD.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)for the white working class.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)JRLeft
(7,010 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)jfern
(5,204 posts)Funny how he then made up the whole myth of the sexist and racist white male BernieBro. Screw the Hillary campaign for their projecting their discrimination onto us. I will never vote for a campaign of hate.
MattP
(3,304 posts)MattP
(3,304 posts)Demsrule86
(68,582 posts)BootinUp
(47,156 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)BootinUp
(47,156 posts)Demsrule86
(68,582 posts)I will try to ignore the worst of them.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)bbgrunt
(5,281 posts)very telling.
One only must ask what kind of people are most likely to USE race as a divisive issue: people who are less racist or people who are more racist.
B Calm
(28,762 posts)during this primary.
Very telling indeed!
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Response to JRLeft (Original post)
artislife This message was self-deleted by its author.
ContinentalOp
(5,356 posts)because she has far more supporters than Bernie!
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)But I suspect you knew that.
Nice try though.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)Did you even open the PDF?
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)but they labeled it a "study" on their site.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)this could go on forever.
asuhornets
(2,405 posts)B Calm
(28,762 posts)NorthCarolina
(11,197 posts)Remember "Super Predators" and "bringing them to heel", giving the poor a choice between voluntary military service or making money for the private prison industry as a long term inmate?
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)They been known to do that.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)and LMAO at the youtube
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)who is a faculty member at a prestigious university.
Just kidding. It is, of course, a #BernieStudy.
Spacedog1973
(221 posts)Seems to me both groups are losers here. Nobody cares if you aren't as racist as the next guy if you too are racist.
Seems like a king of the midden heap fight to me.