2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumElection Integrity Organizations Plan Exit Polls for California Democratic Primary
In response to the cancelling of TV network funded exit polls just prior to the Kentucky and Oregon Democratic primaries, citizen funded exit polls are now being planned for the California primary:
Because network funded exit polls have been cancelled for the remaining 2016 primaries, a number of organizations including Protect California Ballots, California Election Protection Network and Election Defense Alliance have organized to conduct citizen exit polling.
These organizations are looking for volunteers to conduct the polling. Please check out the Facebook link above for details if you are interested in volunteering.
The announcement continues:
Exit polling is important for safeguarding the integrity of elections. So far in the 2016 election cycle, some state primary results do not match exit polls within the survey sampling margin of error. Such discrepancies are often indicative of election fraud. Why would the networks that traditionally fund exit polls cancel exit polling for the remaining primaries?
Around the world, exit polls have been used to verify the integrity of elections. The United States has funded exit polls in Eastern Europe to detect fraud. Discrepancies between exit polls and the official vote count have been used to successfully overturn election results in Ukraine, Serbia, and Georgia
The {recent cancelling of} exit poll reporting and the lack of an explanation for their absence has only added fuel to voters speculation regarding election fraud.
Actually, the statement that some {Democratic 2016} state primary results do not match exit polls within survey sampling margin of error is quite an understatement. The discrepancies between what the exit polls have predicted and the official Democratic primary results have exceeded the statistical margin of error in 10 states this primary season and all of them favor Clinton in the official results compared to the exit poll predictions. Beyond that, the consistency of the discrepancies has been quite remarkable, favoring Clinton in the official results compared to exit poll predictions in 20 of the 23 primaries since March 1 where exit polls have been conducted. The chart below shows that in graphic form (Note especially the last two columns).
The Inquisitr points out that:
Exit polls had become the source of suspicion of so much election fraud {in the Democratic primaries this year} that the hashtag #ExitPollGate surfaced on social media. Primary after primary, exit polls were not aligning with election outcomes in the Democratic primaries
Voter advocacy groups have pointed to exit polls as a red flag that election fraud may be occurring, because the United States has used exit polls as a measure of fraud in elections in other nations. So why did the TV networks suddenly cancel them for the rest of the primary season right before the Kentucky and Oregon primaries?
Election Fraud Watch 2016 has a simple explanation:
The exit polls have not matched the official results OUTSIDE the margin of error in many states in the Democratic primary election. It has been a red flag for fraud. WHY are the networks canceling exit polls in the remaining upcoming primaries? Simple. They do not want to provide a means of evidence to document the theft.
But havent we been told by our national news media that exit polls arent reliable for the purpose of identifying fraud?
Yes, weve been told by our national corporate news media over and over again that exit poll discrepancies arent a reliable measure of election fraud. They tell us that for the same reason that they fail to tell us so many other things. They are wedded to the status quo and they dont want to rock the boat. Have you ever heard them discuss that our election system is ranked LAST among the established democracies in the world? The fact of the matter is that as explained by Jonathan Simon at the Election Defense Alliance, whenever we see exit poll discrepancies that are highly suggestive of fraud, they always favor the more conservative candidate in the official vote count compared to what is predicted by the exit polls. Our national corporate news media is fine with that and they want to make sure that we all know that anyone who takes exit polls seriously as a means of monitoring elections will be labeled a conspiracy theorist as if election fraud couldnt possibly occur in our country. And yet, almost every expert on the electronic voting machines that are used to count our votes acknowledges that they are highly vulnerable to vote rigging.
As an example of our news media trying everything they can to get our mind away from exit polls, lets consider Nate Silvers Ten Reasons Why you Should Ignore Exit Polls, as I believe that Nate is the most frequently quoted pollster on this subject. He is far too intelligent to write something with so much fallacious reasoning, so I am assuming that he was heavily persuaded to do it. I discuss his ten points in detail in this post. Here I will just summarize why we should ignore his advice on this:
1) Some of his reasons to ignore exit polls (2, 3, 5, and 10) clearly exhibit circular reasoning. He says in various ways that we should ignore them because they have been shown to be wrong in the past. But they definitely have NOT been shown to be wrong in the past. What they have shown is that they often deviate from the official election results (again, they always favor the more conservative candidate in the official count). To say that this proves them to be wrong is classical circular reasoning. What such deviations show is that exit polls often differ from the official count, meaning that either the exit polls are wrong or the official count is wrong (i.e. rigged).
2) Nate makes his living by analyzing pre-election polls. Yet in his criticism of exit polls, he doesnt even mention that some of his reasons for ignoring exit polls (4, 6, and 9) apply equally or more so to pre-election polls. Does he want us to ignore pre-election polls too? Of course not he makes his living from them.
3) Related to number 2 above, he doesnt balance his discussion by including the very substantial and unarguable advantages that exit polls have over pre-election polls, which include: a) They assess how the voter actually voted rather than how s/he intends to vote at a later time; b) Pre-election polls rely on models to estimate who likely voters will be. Different pollsters use different models to estimate that and obviously some of them are wrong. Sometimes, most of them are wrong. Exit polls have no need for such models. Each respondent to an exit poll has approximately a 100% chance of voting because s/he has already voted and; c) despite the problems that exit polls have in obtaining a true random sample of voters, the problems with obtaining a true random sample with pre-election polls are far worse for the very simple reason that many voters cannot be sampled at all because they are unobtainable by phone.
In summary
If exit polls are as bad as our corporate news media tries to tell us, then why does our country pay to have them performed elsewhere in the world?
And if the substantial exit poll discrepancies in the Democratic primaries this year are indicative of the poor reliability of exit polls rather than election fraud, then why have the exit polls in the Republican primaries been so consistently right on target(scroll down to table)? Ill suggest a reason why. To repeat myself exit poll discrepancies in this country in recent years (since 2004 at least) always favor the more conservative candidate in the official vote count (i.e. election fraud is almost always perpetrated on behalf of the more conservative candidate). In the Republican primaries this year, election fraud wasnt worth the effort. All the candidates were plenty enough conservative to satisfy whoever might be behind this.
Im looking forward to the California primary election and comparison with the California exit polls. Should there be a large discrepancy (in either direction and regardless of who wins), I would very much want to see a hand count of the whole state to see how much the official machine count differs from the hand count. There is no other way that we can have confidence in the results in the face of large exit poll discrepancies from the official results.
tonyt53
(5,737 posts)Time for change
(13,718 posts)AzDar
(14,023 posts)Time for change
(13,718 posts)So many people who think that everything that they don't want to hear is a "conspiracy theory". To some, it's still a "conspiracy theory" that the pretext for the Iraq War of 2003 were a bunch of lies.
Anyhow, if there is a large exit poll discrepancy with the official count in the CA primary, it really doesn't matter how many people believe that that's an indication of fraud, as long as we have a hand recount. Then we won't need to theorize about anything. Surely a hand recount should take precedence over those god forsaken electronic machines that are so easy to hack.
TimPlo
(443 posts)All the threads of Clinton supporters saying there was no election fraud ever. Come Nov we are going to see it big time. It going to be the battle of who can rig election more. Except the RNC will always win it because they control more of the State Governments thanks to DWS sucking at her jobs.
Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)HerbChestnut
(3,649 posts)In all but 3 or 4 of those exit polls the final result ends in Clinton's favor. In the ones that fall outside the MoE of the exit polls every one favors Hillary. There's no conspiracy here, just facts.
Dustlawyer
(10,497 posts)No surprise that they caught computer election fraud in the Ohio elections from a company in TN., with ties to W's and Rove's IT guy who died in a small plane crash days before his deposition.
Conspiracies? Yes!
JudyM
(29,262 posts)great if they would bring in Carter to help with that and lend further validation, in advance.
Time for change
(13,718 posts)The Election Defense Alliance has been conducting exit polls for many years, and they have plenty of expertise for conducting them in a scientifically valid manor.
Here is an article by Jonathan Simon, Executive Director of the EDA, talking about exit poll issues.
http://electiondefensealliance.org/
Waiting For Everyman
(9,385 posts)Thanks for posting this!
Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)We all know that Debbie will try anything she and her cronies think they can get away with.
Retrograde
(10,143 posts)to account for mail-in ballots, which is how a significantly large segment of the population in California votes?
Time for change
(13,718 posts)exit pollsters have, for several elections conducted telephone surveys the week before the election among those who have already voted in states with a rate of early voting they consider significant enough to affect the results. On election night, they combine the early voting telephone survey results with interviews conducted at polling places.
PufPuf23
(8,809 posts)How do exit polls handle mail in ballots?
Time for change
(13,718 posts)PufPuf23
(8,809 posts)had already been asked.
The article answers my question and is informative in general.
My vote went to mail only 10 years or so ago, as is very rural.
Never in my life have I ever been polled for a poll of any type (pre-election or exit) and I have lived rural, urban, and suburban in northern California or northwestern OR. Also have never missed an election since 1972.
It was disturbing to hear that exit polls had been cancelled for the remainder of the primaries until this new venture.
Time for change
(13,718 posts)But maybe this is better -- If there's a big discrepancy like there have been in so many states this primary season, I think that the groups involved in this are going to very assertive in getting it more attention than the others have gotten.
bobbobbins01
(1,681 posts)Although I have a feeling they'll just be discounted like all the others that point to fraud.
brooklynite
(94,679 posts)Time for change
(13,718 posts)reddread
(6,896 posts)billionaires wouldnt lie.
thesquanderer
(11,990 posts)Time for change
(13,718 posts)NorthCarolina
(11,197 posts)Godhumor
(6,437 posts)There is basically zero chance they'll get anything meaningful or factually correct.
Time for change
(13,718 posts)TBF
(32,084 posts)while the democratic exit polls have been way off. This leads us to believe election fraud is being committed (along with many other pieces of evidence). Do you have a non-snarky reply to this?
Godhumor
(6,437 posts)Citizen groups starting at that point have no hope of doing anything that'll be considered viable, but they'll still feed the vitriol of conspiracists.
Time for change
(13,718 posts)Would you care to tell us why you believe that?
Or can you square it with the fact that our country has paid for exit polls in other countries, which have been used to help overturn election results?
Tarc
(10,476 posts)Jester Messiah
(4,711 posts)Right? Because they'll just confirm that the election results are on the up-and-up?
Tarc
(10,476 posts)I've been voting since 1988 and have never been subject to one. They are random samples, no more or less accurate than ordinary polling.
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)huge shenanegans that happen.
Time for change
(13,718 posts)In California, they have a ballot shortage that specifically pertains only to "No Party Preference" voters, who are known to support Bernie by a wide margin.
http://progressive.network/2016/06/early-reports-indicate-ballot-shortage-california-will-election-rigging-continue/
Retrograde
(10,143 posts)since the election is June 7 - next week.
I'm feeling kinda left out: I'm a NPP permanent mail voter, and everything went off without a glitch. Got a postcard asking which ballot I wanted at the end of March, got the actual ballot itself - labeled "Non-Partisan Democratic" the day after it was sent out, on May 10, filled it out, put it in the handy postage-paid envelope, sent it back. When I check the county registrar's website I see it's listed as received and counted. I wanna be special and not bother informing myself in advance and whingeing about being oppressed afterwards!
Seriously, will polling places run short on June 7? Maybe. Turnout is expected to be higher than usual, and there is a surge of new voters who don't always seem to be the most informed about California's unique election rules. NPP - no party preference or non-partisan voters - have a choice of 4 ballots that they can request this election - the standard NPP, Democratic, Libertarian or American Independent. The election officials make their best guesses based on past elections and current news as to how to staff them and stock ballots, but they sometimes guess wrong.
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)DookDook
(166 posts)Thanks for posting this!