2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumIf Clinton Wants To Be President, She Needs To Explain How She Could Make Such A RECKLESS Decision
Everyone, including Hillary Clinton, now agrees that the newly confirmed secretary of State made a mistake in 2009 when she decided, for the sake of convenience, to run her own email system out of her home in Chappaqua, N.Y., rather than use an official State Department email account.
But a new report by State's inspector general makes clear that within two years, Clinton's bad decision had turned into something far worse: a threat to national security, one that she repeatedly ignored despite multiple warnings.
Warning No. 1: The report, released last week, reveals that in January 2011, hackers were attacking her private server. Twice, the Hillary and Bill Clinton staffer responsible for maintaining the server had to shut it off to protect data held by America's top diplomat and the former president. The staffer notified State Department officials of the attempted hack, and Clintons top aides there emailed each other to say that sensitive matters should not be discussed with Clinton over email.
Warning No. 2: Two months later, the assistant secretary for diplomatic security sent a memorandum on cybersecurity threats directly to Clinton, warning of a dramatic increase in efforts "to compromise the private home email accounts of senior department officials" in a likely attempt to "gain access to policy documents and personal information that could enable technical surveillance and possible blackmail. The memo to Clinton warned her that some personal email accounts had already been compromised and had been reconfigured to automatically forward copies of all composed emails to the hackers.
More @ Link:http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2016/05/30/hillary-clinton-email-server-inspector-general-editorials-debates/85159948/
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)they are no longer giving her a pass.
Tavarious Jackson
(1,595 posts)She is a champion who has stood tall against al scandals. She will continue to stand tall. Nothing can stop her.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)but he is comedic. I don't think he realizes exactly how much.
JudyM
(29,251 posts)and yet, nearly 500 posts in 2 weeks of membership here on DU, so...maybe not so much.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)and I am that cynical
JudyM
(29,251 posts)opiate69
(10,129 posts)JudyM
(29,251 posts)merrily
(45,251 posts)I, for one, appreciate the most recent influx of posters into DU.
I have certainly gotten my share of laughs from DU, but never this many per day.
And I am very shameless about how much I love to smile and laugh.
Voice for Peace
(13,141 posts)still post for Hillary.. cos I don't see a lot of heart in many of their posts.
Broward
(1,976 posts)IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)That nifty flag burning bill? Ooh - she got equal pay for women, right? (Still not a thing, unfortunately.) Access to abortion? Drat -- more problems in every state! No fracking? Except she was promoting it. Hmm...marriage equality? That's a thing now -- except she didn't support it.
Lucky them.
But, to the question, what has she successfully fought FOR?
larkrake
(1,674 posts)840high
(17,196 posts)those scandals. America is tired.
pinebox
(5,761 posts)The law applies to everyone. Including Hillary.
Babel_17
(5,400 posts)That's for putting it out there clearly and saving me the trouble. The AP fact check, factcheck.org, network fact checkers, and major editorial boards have established this new narrative.
This was not unforeseen imo, the Clinton campaign is pretty savvy. Californians scratching their heads over both Sanders and Clinton zeroing in on their state, but the promised debate vanishing, need wonder no longer.
The media has questions to ask, and when they get a chance to ask them, they will. It just won't be at the debate that was promised. That's gone.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)the took her at her word... she lied. Yes, that never goes well
onehandle
(51,122 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)LP2K12
(885 posts)I'm voting for Hillary over Trump.
I still care.
Thanks for making me think twice though...
elleng
(130,973 posts)GOOD JUDGMENT.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)FBI, DOJ, two federal judges, OIG... They all care.
And anyone who gives a rat's ass about the Democratic Party cares, if they are being honest.
apcalc
(4,465 posts)AzDar
(14,023 posts)pscot
(21,024 posts)Take your pick.
elleng
(130,973 posts)Tal Vez
(660 posts)if someone could show me precisely how it led to some actual damage to the country. Having worked in the real world for five decades, I have seen so many mistakes and rule violations that they no longer appear to be unusual. I don't have time for the mistakes that never caused damage. Does anyone really believe that there is a candidate who hasn't made mistakes or violated a rule?
I think articles about this email thing should begin with a paragraph or two about the people who were killed or imprisoned by whatever error has been discovered. It's becoming tedious.
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)Double standard?
Tal Vez
(660 posts)I think that you're implying that Clinton, like Snowdon, turned classified NSA documents over to the press. The problem is that I've never seen any evidence that Clinton did that.
Poor Mr. Snowdon. What did he do to cause you to drag him into a political attack against Clinton?
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)Your attempts at arguing a strawman of your choosing will not work.
And if you can't even spell the name 'Snowden' correctly I doubt I can continue this discussion productively.
Tal Vez
(660 posts)Well, I think you've had an opportunity to tell me about any actual damage to the country or to any person as a result of Clinton's use of emails. While your inability to provide any such information is not dispositive, I remain convinced that no significant harm resulted from any mistake that she made. If you later come up with something responsive, please let me know and it can be considered.
AzDar
(14,023 posts)Not to mention the MULTIPLE unreported HACKING attempts?
Tal Vez
(660 posts)I place absolutely no weight on the opinions of Mika Brzezinski or her coffee mate. In fact, it has become so bad that I won't even listen to her. You might just as well show me a clip made by Trump.
pinebox
(5,761 posts)pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)with a lot of empty, uninformed nonsense.
opiate69
(10,129 posts)When you hit the reply button, Jon's post was directly above the space you were typing in, with "Snowden" spelled correctly in bold letters, and still, you managed to misspell it three fucking times???
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)jeff47
(26,549 posts)to someone who had a security clearance. There is no evidence anyone without a clearance ever saw them. He was charged, and avoided conviction due to a plea deal.
Causing damage is not required to break this law.
Tal Vez
(660 posts)If I park in a handicapped parking place without a placard, I've violated a rule even if there is no harm. We don't disagree about that.
I think, though, that the people raising this email situation are suggesting that it is important enough for me to disqualify a candidate for president. I need more than a mistake or a rule violation to do that.
BTW, you have misspelled Petaeus. I take no offense, but there may be others who are not so forgiving.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)But hey, rules, laws, what does it matter? Those are for other people to follow.
Tal Vez
(660 posts)See, we're talking about evaluating someone's fitness to serve as president. Show me a violation of rule or law that has caused significant actual harm and I promise to consider it. Senator Sanders knows what I'm talking about. Didn't he grant me permission to become "sick and tired" of hearing about this email issue?
TimPlo
(443 posts)Because he bought into the BS the Clinton camp but out about the emails. And he would rather talk about the issues when he said that. But as Clinton showed she did not mind taking the election into the trash with the Swiftboating they did over Civil Rights issue.
Tal Vez
(660 posts)but does he admit that he made a mistake?
When did Sanders first discover that he was wrong?
Did Sanders disclose that he was wrong as soon as he discovered that he was wrong or did he conceal that fact for some period of time?
Does Sanders have any documents relating the discovery of his mistake?
Has Sanders destroyed any of the written evidence (e.g., newspapers he read, emails he received) relating to this mistake and its discovery?
You know, I'm not as convinced as you are that Sanders was wrong about any of this. Personally, I think that he has been right from the beginning.
hopemountain
(3,919 posts)he is leaving the email investigation to the doj and fbi. he is very clear about staying on the issues.
but, if you want to argue right and wrong about sanders go to the hillary clinton group.
Tal Vez
(660 posts)I like Bernie. While I disagree with his bank proposal, I wish that nearly everything else that he advocates could be enacted.
In November, I am going to vote for the Democratic nominee. Like Bernie, I am going to do anything that I can to make sure that Trump never becomes president.
And, I trust that you'll do what you think is right.
Arneoker
(375 posts)Or would that just apply to how Burlington College failed after his wife managed it? Or do we assume she actually did okay as I understand she was well-compensated for that?
Is there really any limit to this game? At some point shouldn't we accept that everyone of these politicians has some significant flaws, and that we need to keep perspective in judging what is most important?
Hillary should have been more careful then, and should be more forthcoming now. But her chances of getting indicted over this are about the same as any random person getting indicted over something soon.
Tal Vez
(660 posts)These candidates are human beings. And, each of them have lived busy lives full of complications and mistakes. It is not hard to find a mistake and exaggerate its importance.
Every answer leads to three more questions. If any document no longer exists, then it must have been destroyed as part of a cover-up. It's an easy game to play. That's why I ask about the existence of any significant actual damage. If none can be found, why am I being asked to play this ridiculous game? Why are folks trying to convince me that this really is important? Anything can be made to appear important just by spending a lot of time on it.
I ask about significant actual damage related to this email issue and no one seems to know of any. How can I avoid the conclusion that the issue is worthless for purposes of evaluating Clinton as a candidate?
karynnj
(59,504 posts)It was one of those investigations that put out a report last week. The Intelligence IG, the FBI and various FOIA cases are still out there.
Sanders was entirely correct that this was not something for him to debate with Clinton - especially as the full truth was at that point known only by Clinton.
Tal Vez
(660 posts)as part of my evaluation of Clinton, then please tell me what significant actual damage has been caused to the country or to any person by this mistake that was made. Whenever I ask, I receive nothing real. I'm told that it could have resulted in damage, etc. sort of like a car parked in the wrong parking stall could have resulted in a serious problem, but didn't.
All of these candidates have made mistakes, all of them have crossed legal boundaries and all of them have lied to other people during their lives. I begin with the assumption that they are human beings. Show me the actual harm that this mistake has actually caused.
karynnj
(59,504 posts)What I see as a big problem is that this was done intentionally to thwart any oversight from Congress and the media. I value transparency allowing people - via the media - to get good information on things they have a legitimate right to know. Not to mention, basic checks and balances a critical part of the design of our government relies on Congress getting information they need.
Even if you ignore all the security risk concerns and the fact that it is pretty outrageous that the tip of the SD ran on a private server, there is a huge problem with the fact that she left the SD without leaving email for which there already were inquiries. Remember that as HRC accused the committees of dragging out their hearings - they said they were waiting for her email which they repeatedly asked the State Department for.
What is clear is HRC designed the system to stonewall anyone if they wanted anything and she hoped that the SD would be in a position of having to either fight the presumptive Democratic nominee for President or join the stonewall.
Tal Vez
(660 posts)I have already voted in the California primary. Personally, in terms of negative factors, I found Clinton's initial Iraq vote to be more significant than this email baloney, but both Clinton and Sanders brought with them both positive and negative factors for me.
My next vote will be in November. I am confident that even if I adopt your standard I will have little difficulty choosing the Democratic nominee over Trump.
Again, however, each of us has to make our own decision.
hopemountain
(3,919 posts)jon was pointing to the double standard.
for example: war crimes by bush and cheney - thousands of our military are dead or permanently traumatized or injured and also the millions of middle eastern innocent children, women, and other citizens bombed or shot and their homes blown up - based upon lies.
the issue with clinton is she lies, lies, lies, & lies. she believes the rules and laws do not apply to her.
names or data regarding those harmed or threatened by her exchange of classified information via her email server is classified.
in other words: we do not and perhaps never will know even a portion of how much she endangered agents, compromised negotiations or interfered with covert actions around the world - because that information is classified.
Tal Vez
(660 posts)You're absolutely right that we may never know all of the things that our public officials have done to cause harm. We will probably never know the half of it.
But, you see, I have to vote (at least I want to vote). And, I have to vote based upon what I know. I just can't base my vote on things that I don't know even if I'll never know the things that I don't know.
I just have to do the best that I can with what I do know. And, then I hope for the best.
hopemountain
(3,919 posts)my elders taught me to use my head and my heart. it can be challenging to reconcile both to a decision - but it is all a learning.
Tal Vez
(660 posts)Trust your head and your heart. It's all that we have in the end.
lmbradford
(517 posts)Were on her unsecure email server, which were access by staff with no security clearance, which were then taken to a mom and pop IT place to be wiped but were first backed up in another companies cloud. Neither of those two companies had any security clearance. Then when the fbi started asking about the server, she asked mom and pop to delete everything but she didnt know that fbi already had gone and picked up the server.
Get the gist yet?
Tal Vez
(660 posts)As I understand it, you believe that some unidentified sensitive information in written form was handled in a manner such that unauthorized persons might have been able to read that sensitive information and, if they had read that sensitive information, they might then have used that sensitive information in a manner such that there might have been damage done to our country.
But, what significant actual damage was done to our country?
If it's serious enough and if Clinton caused it, she should lose my support. Of course, if this is just a lot of partisan coulda, woulda, mighta, then I have to stick with the candidate that I think will make the best president.
pmorlan1
(2,096 posts)It's already clear that, in using the private email server, Clinton broke the rules. Now it remains to be seen whether she also broke the law.
Tarc
(10,476 posts)AzDar
(14,023 posts)The world may never KNOW...
Tarc
(10,476 posts)I just find it amusing/pitiable that you still think this will help Sanders somehow get the nomination.
AzDar
(14,023 posts)KingFlorez
(12,689 posts)If he was the nominee it wouldn't erase the fact that he was rejected by voters. With that said, he's out of luck, because the indictment fairy ain't coming.
grasswire
(50,130 posts)Response to AzDar (Reply #16)
ljm2002 This message was self-deleted by its author.
KingFlorez
(12,689 posts)"you know that we do not care about the emails, but we need that indictment badly. Please do not forsake your child Bernie in his hour need. Do not let Satan steal his holy victory! Smite the devil known as Hillary with an indictment! IN JESUS NAME I PRAY, AMEN!"
elleng
(130,973 posts)Get this, pay attention:
'Those warnings, coming in a span of six months, should have made any responsible public official, even one without Clintons access to classified information on cyber threats from the vast U.S. intelligence network, aware of the national security dangers of failing to secure the secretary of States email communications.
Instead, Clinton and several of her top aides continued to use personal email for sensitive State Department business thousands of times.
If Clinton wants to become the president of the United States, she needs to explain how she could make such a reckless decision. She had a chance to answer questions when the Obama administration-appointed inspector general contacted her about the investigation that was released last week. Among five recent secretaries of State, only Clinton refused.
While Clinton is under potential criminal investigation by the FBI for the mishandling of classified material sent through her email, remaining silent might be in her best interests and it is certainly her right. But to be president, she is going to have to convince voters that she can put the national security of the United States above her own short-term self-interest.
It's already clear that, in using the private email server, Clinton broke the rules. Now it remains to be seen whether she also broke the law.'
KingFlorez
(12,689 posts)So you can sit down. Thanks, darling. Bye.
elleng
(130,973 posts)you don't read well or understand GOOD JUDGMENT, it appears. Bye
grasswire
(50,130 posts)SMH
Every one of those posts drives another potential vote away.
elleng
(130,973 posts)AzDar
(14,023 posts)and forbid they send us all into the chamber with the madman for their blindness.
elleng
(130,973 posts)beachbumbob
(9,263 posts)Previously done by othe SOS.?and so far nothing has shown any harm been done....this is all foxnews...glen beck and Alex jones crapolla...good to know the company you keep
elleng
(130,973 posts)'Those warnings, coming in a span of six months, should have made any responsible public official, even one without Clintons access to classified information on cyber threats from the vast U.S. intelligence network, aware of the national security dangers of failing to secure the secretary of States email communications.
Instead, Clinton and several of her top aides continued to use personal email for sensitive State Department business thousands of times.
If Clinton wants to become the president of the United States, she needs to explain how she could make such a reckless decision. She had a chance to answer questions when the Obama administration-appointed inspector general contacted her about the investigation that was released last week. Among five recent secretaries of State, only Clinton refused.
While Clinton is under potential criminal investigation by the FBI for the mishandling of classified material sent through her email, remaining silent might be in her best interests and it is certainly her right. But to be president, she is going to have to convince voters that she can put the national security of the United States above her own short-term self-interest.
It's already clear that, in using the private email server, Clinton broke the rules. Now it remains to be seen whether she also broke the law.'
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)These guys have a nice circulation in both print and online subscribers.
http://marketing.usatoday.com/about
annavictorious
(934 posts)not a report.
Here's a different op-ed piece.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/charlestiefer/2016/05/25/state-department-report-on-email-vindicates-clinton-rather-than-nails-her/#428521382c7d
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)The one you posted is from a "contributor" -- basically, the Forbes equivalent of a discussion board.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)They had private email. They did not have their own server...that had massive security holes.
This article is in USA Today. There's a similar article in People. You're going to have to actually pay attention and find out what happened if you hope to successfully deflect.
ljm2002
(10,751 posts)...what Clinton did was NOT the same as what was previously done by other SOS's.
Powell did use private email on occasion for State business, but he primarily used his official State email account.
Kerry, who came after Clinton, used private email occasionally -- usually because someone would send an email to his personal account -- but he made it a point to forward all such emails to his official State email account. Among other things, this ensured that all of his State emails would be in one place -- which would facilitate FOIA requests, among other things.
ONLY Hillary Clinton had her own private server in her private home and used her private email accounts from that server to conduct ALL of her State business. Furthermore, ONLY Hillary Clinton insisted on using her unsecured Blackberry, even after being warned specifically about the security problems of the device.
You can argue that she did nothing wrong, if you like. But you cannot truthfully argue that she only did what other SOS's did. "You are entitled to your own opinion; you are not entitled to your own facts."
LuvLoogie
(7,011 posts)before the High Sparrow will grace her with his approval. The Faith Militant will not be compromised.
Rosa Luxemburg
(28,627 posts)I don't think she has been thoroughly vetted. There''s a lot more to come.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)the Brady Bill, on average 80 people die daily in the US from gun violence and still he does not realize he used bad judgement in voting against this bill.
AzDar
(14,023 posts)Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)scscholar
(2,902 posts)than anything classified that could have leaded.
ljm2002
(10,751 posts)...Edward Snowden did not even conceivably cause as much damage as, say, a Secretary of State who sold military grade guns to every tinpot dictatorship in the Middle East, many of which ultimately made their way into the hands of ISIS.
Got it.
politicaljunkie41910
(3,335 posts)Nothing she would say would change the minds of those who already hate her and have no plans to vote for her. Those of us who plan to vote for her know what she's been up against for the past 30 years and don't need an explanation.
elleng
(130,973 posts)that her judgment is highly flawed, and don't mind supporting such a flawed person for president.
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)if Hillary did it. And she did do it. They were there. 22 messages that were of a higher classification that TOP SECRET, sitting on her NON GOVERNMENT, private server.
Yet they dismiss it and make excuses and rationalizations. . . . no matter what. They have lost all perspective and judgement.
amborin
(16,631 posts)anti Democratic coup in Honduras, etc
Jitter65
(3,089 posts)reckless. Her server was better protected that State Department servers. And no secret or confidential information was compromised. The bin Laden take down happened during that time when she was using her server and personal e-mails. And several other TS operations went down successfully during her time as SOS. The only information ever leaked or hacked was either from Congress or Snowden or Manning.
AzDar
(14,023 posts)ljm2002
(10,751 posts)Who knew...
Skid Rogue
(711 posts)what degree of damage was actually done to our national security. Until someone can pinpoint actual damage due to Classified info being sent by Clinton on unsecured channels, IMO, this is just a Benghazi spin-off.
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)That has nothing to do with anything.
Here's a good site that is very informative. Because right now, you actually know almost nothing.
http://thompsontimeline.com/The_Clinton_Email_Scandal_Timeline
.
Skid Rogue
(711 posts)What damage was done? What classified info was leaked due to Clinton's private email server? How did that adversely affect our National security?
A person as well informed as you obviously are should be able to answer that simple question in a few clear sentences.
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)Perfect candidate for my list of people without any information behind their words. . . . or, as commonly referred to, my ignore list.
Funny how it's always the Hillary people who don't have any real information but just attitude.
Buh bye.
Skid Rogue
(711 posts)Bother someone else? You responded to my post, to my request for "real information."
So, I repeat...
What damage was done? What classified info was leaked due to Clinton's private email server? How did that adversely affect our National security?
That's not called attitude, it's called a question.
lmbradford
(517 posts)One of the commanders (Johnson?) Reported he stopped informing her of upcoming ops bc there was someone telling before the soldiers got there. After he stopped informing her, the ops went smoothly and as planned.
He suggested that her com devices were being hacked., although he has no proof.
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)emsimon33
(3,128 posts)Her tactics during the primary are one bad decision after another, alienating nearly 50% of the Party.
Winning-at-any-cost Hillary and her minions are destroying the Democratic Party,
AzDar
(14,023 posts)which is way beyond bad decision-making.
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)She had NO JUDGEMENT ! And is so imperious that when someone raises the issue they are told to shut up and don't mention it again.
Those the NOT the qualities you want in a President. Not now, not ever.
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)Proof of intent.
EndElectoral
(4,213 posts)Triana
(22,666 posts)not just "experience" -- MATTERS.
And like it or not, her RECORD shows that her JUDGEMENT is lacking - quite often and in key decisions.
But...first woman President...first woman President...first woman President - is ALL that matters, evidently.