Establishment Democrats Courting Disaster

[Billsmile]

New article by John Atcheson that takes on some popular arguments being made during the primaries.

As Hillary falls behind Trump, the Establishment is doing all it can to to continue to discredit Sanders -- who beats Trump handily -- and chase him out of the race. Meanwhile, they comfort themselves with self-deluding lies to justify backing the only candidate Trump could beat.

http://www.commondreams.org/views/2016/05/30/establishment-democrats-courting-disaster

[Tal Vez]

1. Anyone with a seat in the United States Senate

qualifies as being part of the establishment as far as I am concerned. I'm sure that Senator Sanders is proud of what he has accomplished. He''s been entrusted with a lot of power in our government.

[pangaia]

26. My view of the establishment, or perhaps my definitition,

is different from yours.
To me it means those who are in it for themselves, to
'get' what they can, be it power, money, whatever. IF, in order to achieve this goal they find they must actually do something for somebody else, well. so be it..

Bernard Sanders, by this definition, is definitely NOT part of the establishment.

[Tal Vez]

44. Yeah, our definitions of establishment might differ.

I think than anyone who is a member of the existing power structure in a society qualities as a member of the establishment. Senators, Congressman, members of the federal judiciary, CEO's of major media companies, banks, etc. are important parts of the existing power structure. And, they have great power whether or not they agree with every existing government policy.

[litlbilly]

33. nope, sorry you are wrong. Bernie has been an inde his entire career. Oh, off to ignore for you

[Tal Vez]

43. In my view, anyone who is

a member of the existing power structure in a society is a member of the establishment. A United States Senator might not agree with all of the policies or precepts of a society, but he is certainly a member of the society's power structure. I view any member of Congress or the Supreme Court in the same way. They may be very unhappy with the status quo, but they occupy important positions in the existing power structure.

[AgingAmerican]

46. Congress is controlled by two parties

[hrmjustin]

2. If Sanders couldn't beat Hillary what makes you think he can beat Trump?

Because of polls?

[All in it together]

4. When everyone including independents can vote, Bernie wins.

It won't help Hillary in the General.

[hrmjustin]

5. Because a poll told you that?

[Fawke Em]

12. Because the voting pattern of Independents tell us that. eom

[AgingAmerican]

17. As Hillary falls behind Trump, the Establishment is doing all it can to to continue to discredit him

You guys are committing political suicide and dragging the country down with you.

[TwilightZone]

11. Clinton has won more open primaries than Sanders has

In addition, the "Sanders would win if all the primaries were open" meme is a myth.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-system-isnt-rigged-against-sanders/

[Fawke Em]

13. In the South, before most people knew Bernie was viable.

I live in the South. Most people still had not heard of him or knew much about him when voting began.

[All in it together]

21. All just speculation till the general

But in a contest with Bernie and Trump, it looks really good for Bernie and not Trump.

With Hillary it looks like a toss up.

Yes polls are possible indications.

[jeff47]

22. You predicting she will win South Carolina and Alabama in the General election? (nt)

[oldandhappy]

36. name recognition, 8 years in the white house

[CorporatistNation]

7. Do Yourself A Favor And See How People Feel About Hillary And Bernie...

Last edited Tue May 31, 2016, 07:12 AM - Edit history (1)

Bernie is beloved.... Hillary well she has not a soul to blame for her mess but herself...

e.g., MSNBC To the deniers... Watch THIS Video... It is not comforting to think that she may well be the Democratic Nominee...

Hillary really betrayed Andrea Mitchell... The entire context of this report was of a solemn nature... A Funeral so to speak...

Andrea Mitchell "I do not see this report as ...ANYTHING BUT... DEVASTATING!"

Chuck Todd "After this I don't think that she could get confirmed for Attorney General!"

Lots of FIBBING by Hillary here.. for more than a year!

[hrmjustin]

8. If bernie is so beloved why couldn't he beat Hillary?

[appal_jack]

10. Closed Primaries, a highly-consolidated corporate media, etc.

Clinton started on third base, and is still struggling to make it 'home.'

Sanders started with two strikes against him, and the bases empty. Yet he polls better against Trump. Ask yourself why.

-app

[hrmjustin]

20. Why didn't Sanders do better in closed primaries?

[oldandhappy]

37. name recognition, 8 years in the white house for clinton

[hrmjustin]

39. Maybe he just didn't appeal to Democrats.

[pangaia]

27. This must be the 1,385, 295th time this false meme has been used.

[hrmjustin]

28. Then why didn't he beat her?

[Trust Buster]

3. Sanders tried to drive the Party off the furthest cliff on the Left. He failed. He's not even a

Democrat.

[leftinportland]

6. What makes one a Demoocrat?

I was conceived as a Democrat, have never in 46 years NOT voted for a Democratic candidate and have no problem with this party swinging back to the left.

The same could be said of the other primary candidate's push to the right.

[Trust Buster]

9. This thread OP talks about the Democratic establishment. I was responding to that.

[leftinportland]

14. Okay...did you then mean to say...

Bernie is not even part of the Democratic Establishment...you'd be correct and not a problem considering how abysmal the party has performed elections since 2008.

[OnDoutside]

24. In Bernie's case, he's spent 73 years of his life NOT being a registered member of the Democrats,

only joining it when he had to.

How can you hope to build trust amongst your Party's Super Delegates, when you've refused to join their party over a period of 20 years, over a period of months ? And that set against an opponent who has been a member for over 40 years, been their First Lady, and fought in the political trenches with them ?

Even now he's going to try to browbeat them into supporting him, it's just not going to happen.

[Fawke Em]

15. What Sanders espouses isn't "left." It's what most Americans want.

But the average America isn't represented by the Dems or the GOP.

http://reverbpress.com/politics/datalog/americans-agree-bernie-sanders/

http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/more-and-more-americans-agree-bernie-sanders-and-not-just-those-who-identify-left

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/05/senator-bernie-sanders-policy-platform-presidential-campaign

So... I guess most of America is "off-the-cliff-left."

The U.S. government does not represent the interests of the majority of the country's citizens, but is instead ruled by those of the rich and powerful, a new study from Princeton and Northwestern universities has concluded.

The report, "Testing Theories of American Politics: Elites, Interest Groups, and Average Citizens" (PDF), used extensive policy data collected between 1981 and 2002 to empirically determine the state of the U.S. political system.

After sifting through nearly 1,800 U.S. policies enacted in that period and comparing them to the expressed preferences of average Americans (50th percentile of income), affluent Americans (90th percentile), and large special interests groups, researchers concluded that the U.S. is dominated by its economic elite.

The peer-reviewed study, which will be taught at these universities in September, says: "The central point that emerges from our research is that economic elites and organized groups representing business interests have substantial independent impacts on US government policy, while mass-based interest groups and average citizens have little or no independent influence."

http://www.businessinsider.com/major-study-finds-that-the-us-is-an-oligarchy-2014-4

[Trust Buster]

18. Then he shouldn't be running as a Democrat. Registered Democrats rejected him by a large margin.

[YouDig]

23. Most Americans don't want huge tax hikes.

[DeeDeeNY]

31. So true

+ 1000

[All in it together]

16. The Clintons drove a lot of good Democrats into being Independents

Many of those people are coming back and new people are coming into the party.

[Trust Buster]

19. I disagree. You blame the Clinton's for everything because you have a current political interest

to do so.

[All in it together]

45. I voted for Bill twice and was disappointed in his (their administration)

Later I found out how bad their administration was to the people, letting Glass-Steagall get repealed and getting changes to welfare that hurt many Americans.

I wasn't for Hillary in 07-8 and didn't want her as SOS. I've been disappointed in some things with Obama too TPP and not going after the banksters while more Americans lost jobs and homes. Also not even trying to get single payer healthcare. And cozying up with Republicans just like the Clintons. This happened before Bernie decided to run so don't tell me why I dislike the Clintons.
There are many reasons for not wanting Hillary to be President which I've mentioned before.

Lincoln would be a RINO now as Hillary is a DINO.

[oldandhappy]

38. The Dem party left me

[pangaia]

30. He's not even a Democrat.

He's not even a Democrat.
He's not even a Democrat.
He's not even a Democrat.
He's not even a Democrat.
He's not even a Democrat.
He's not even a Democrat.
He's not even a Democrat.
He's not even a Democrat.

Over and over and over and over..
Nuts to that.

He IS the fucking Democrat.

Too much TV reduces attention span.

[oldandhappy]

40. clinton is a right-leaning centrist

[hrmjustin]

41. Than why has he always identified as an independent?

[NorthCarolina]

25. They probably believe they can eliminate the Trump threat through the EVM programming. -nt-

[highprincipleswork]

29. I believe this is absolutely true. But Neoliberals have never shown themselves to be very bright,

in my opinion. Just self-satisfied and self-serving. Not really interested in the common good.

[The_Casual_Observer]

32. Oh, it's common dreams......

[Tarc]

34. Common Dreams is becoming my favorite go-to for fantasy reading

#1, There is no need to discredit Sanders, the primary is already essentially over.
#2, Sanders vs. Trump polls are fantasy, as he has hardly ever been the subject of GOP attack ads. Those numbers would sink like a stone if he were the nominee.
#3, The primary voters, by a wide margin, believe that Hillary can beat Trump in the fall.

Looks, bros, we held an election, your guy didn't win. It really is time to move on.

[geek tragedy]

35. As of June 7, we will have a winner and a loser of the primary voting.

The loser will not be the nominee, and should accept that fact with grace and humility.

[oldandhappy]

42. I wonder how many of the new voters will stick with the clintons