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NorthCarolina

(11,197 posts)
Mon May 30, 2016, 10:40 AM May 2016

Why Clinton Will Not Secure the Nomination, According to Math

The author has granted permission to copy and distribute this material it in it's entirety:

According to the Green Papers, Clinton stands (today, April 28th) with 1,664 pledged delegates, while Sanders has gathered 1,371. The amount of delegates needed to secure the nomination is 2,383 and, if you’ll pardon me for my use of arithmetic, I will now demonstrate why that number is hopelessly out of reach for the Clinton campaign.†

Hillary needs 719 more delegates to reach 2,383 because:

2,383 – 1,664 = 719

Now, the pledged delegates that are available to grab in the remaining states all-together amount to 1,016 and in order to attain that blessed number, Clinton will have to win an average of 70.7% of the remaining states. This is because:

719 ÷ 1,016 = 0.707677 or approximately 71%

You might be thinking that 71% is not such an unattainable number for Hillary and her powerful Wallstreet backers — you might be thinking that but you’d be betting against longer odds than would be wise. You see, of the 1,016 delegates remaining, 475 of those delegates are to be won in California, alone — California, which has a semi-open primary. California, where Clinton is polling at a mere 49%. California, where Clinton’s support has been declining as the Sanders Campaign gains visibility and momentum. California — the ace that Sanders, as much as the media, have concealed up his sleeve.

It is no secret that Sanders, a previously invisible independent senator from the tiny state of Vermont, consistently climbs in the polls as he begins to campaign in the weeks before each state has had its primary. You don’t have to take my word for it — check the poll-histories for yourself or read this.

Because Bernie Sanders performs at his absolute best in open primaries and because he consistently rises in the polls, while Clinton consistently falls, it is extremely unlikely that Clinton will perform better than 49 points, let alone win the contest. Let’s do some more math:

Of the 475 delegates available in California on June 7th, lets say Hillary takes 49% of those (even though she will almost certainly take less). That would give her 232.75 delegates, which we’ll round up to an even 232.

475 x 0.49 = 232.75

Next, let’s add that to her current total of 1,664, bringing her up to 1,897. Now, she needs an additional 486 delegates to reach the magic number of 2,383, right? Let’s find out how many delegates Clinton would have to win in the remaining states (besides California, of course).

Of the 541 delegates left, once the 475 CA delegates have been subtracted from the 1,016 delegate total, Clinton is going to have to win almost 90% of the remaining non-California delegates! This is because, when you divide the number of delegates that Clinton needs after California by the number of delegates remaining after California, you get 0.898 or 89%, rounded down:

486 ÷ 541 = 0.898 or 89.8%

Now, how likely does that sound? It’s not likely in Oregon, a fairly progressive state that shares its general attitudes with Washington, a state that Sanders won with about 70% of the vote. It’s not likely in West Virginia, either, where Sanders is currently leading in the polls. Nor is it likely in Indiana where Sanders and Clinton are almost neck-and-neck, which votes on May 3rd. That nomination is feeling a lot further away now, isn’t it?

Okay, okay — maybe you’re thinking, “John, I think you’re being unfair, Clinton could certainly win California.” To which I would reply: I admire your optimism, my friend — and since you’re so optimistic, let’s run those numbers again — but this time, let’s assume that Clinton, for whatever reason, defies the consistent trends that have prevailed over the entire primary season. Let’s say, she jumps up 11% now, winning the California primary with 60% of the vote. So:

475 x 0.6 = 285

Now, add the 285 delegates to Clinton’s current total:

285 + 1,664 = 1,949

But:

2,383 – 1,949 = 434

So, Clinton will still need to scrape up 434 delegates somewhere other than California, some how. Which means — Hold on, first we have to figure out how much of the remaining delegates she’ll have to win:

434 ÷ 541 = .802218 or 80%

Wow! Even if Clinton actually wins California with 60% to Sanders with 40%, she will still have to secure about 80% of the remaining vote! Again, this certainly doesn’t seem likely in Oregon, West Virginia, or Indiana, which means the actual percentage would climb each time she failed to take 80% of a state! Now, are you starting to see why I am saying that Clinton will not be securing the nomination before the convention?
Why Sanders Will Win, According to Math

If you’ve found yourself thinking, “Well, Sanders won’t secure the nomination, either!” You are almost 100% right! Well, 99.6% right, anyway. Because, if we take Sanders’ current delegate total of 1,371, subtract that from the magic 2,383, then divide that by the remaining available delegates, we get 0.996, see:

2,383 – 1,371 = 1,012

1,012 ÷ 1,016 = 0.996 or 99.6%

Therefore, Sanders would have to secure a whopping 99.6% victory in all remaining states to secure the nomination! I think this may be one of the few things that both Berners and Clintonistas could agree on: that that is impossible. But to those of you that are thinking, “John! This is terrible” or “Haha! Take that, Sanders!” I would reply: You are both wrong. Mostly. Let me explain:

First off, let’s acknowledge that the math seems to prohibit both candidates from securing the nomination before the convention — so what does this mean? This means that, since Sanders will not give up before the convention, there will almost certainly be a “contested convention.”

“Um… But John…” you may be saying, “Won’t Hillary still be miles ahead of Sanders in votes at the convention?”

To which I would reply: I’m glad you asked, my paid Hillary-supporter friend! Allow me to demonstrate how that will also not be the case, no matter what the media would have you believe. Follow me!

Since neither of them will be securing the 2,383 needed for the nomination, let’s take a look at another number that has been hiding in plain sight for far too long. I’d like you to meet the number, 4,051. That’s the number of total pledged delegates that are available from all 50 states, plus DC, US territories, and the Democrats abroad. As it should be obvious, a majority of these delegates would be 2,026 because:

4,051 ÷ 2 = 2,025.5

At the convention, this number is going to matter more than the unattainable 2,383 delegates that no one will have. That being the case, let’s take a look at what Bernie Sanders would have to do to get there. If Sanders won 60% of the remaining contests (and remember how 475 of 1,016 are in California, where Sanders will do well), then the numbers at the convention would look like this:

1,016 x .60 = 609.6

Round that to 610 and add it to Sanders current total of 1,371, then divide that by the total delegate count, 4,051:

610 + 1,371 = 1,981

1,981 ÷ 4,051 = .489 or 48.9%

So, in the scenario where Sanders takes about 60% of the remaining vote, we’re essentially looking at a 49 to 51% vote total at the convention — not so bad, eh? And that’s easily within Sanders’ reach, if we do well in California (which we almost certainly will). Let’s look at what happens if he takes 70% (just like he did last time we went to the West/Left Coast):

1,016 x .70 = 711.2, round it down to 711, then:

711 + 1,371 = 2,082

2,082 ÷ 4,051 = 0.513 or 51.3%

If Sanders took 70%, the convention would look like 51.3 to 48.7%, in favor of Sanders! But 70%, while possible, is a bit of a stretch — the new magic number, for Sanders anyway, is actually 64.4% of the remaining states, which would mean winning 655 of the 1,016 remaining delegates, pushing his total up to 2,026, the bare majority of delegates, leaving Clinton one delegate behind at 2,025.

Now, does Sanders winning 64.4% sound too far-fetched? Not particularly, especially when we consider his advantages on the Left Coast, in California’s 475 delegate semi-open primary. An uphill climb, though? Certainly. Remember, though: it is all but certain that Clinton will not secure the nomination, while Sanders supporters are going to be pouring into Philadelphia for the convention by the tens of thousands. Even if Bernie fell short by a few points, we’re still essentially looking at a tie. And that’s when all hell is going to break loose.

Things are going to become very interesting if we have a near-tie at the convention to be decided by the super-delegates.

Things are going to become very interesting when they look back at the many states that are still crying out for a re-vote, states fraught with “voting irregularities,” polling station closures, and voter roll purges — all states which Clinton won and all states which so far have not received justice.

Things are going to become very interesting when the DNC and the super-delegates realize that Sanders, unlike the Wallstreet-backed Clinton-Machine, will bring in not only millions of independent voters that were unable to vote in the primaries, but even defecting Republican votes, sealing the GOP’s utter defeat in November.

Things are going to become very interesting when, while they are thinking about all of these things, they are doing so to the earth-shaking, thunderous chants of “Bernie! Bernie! Bernie!” from his tens of thousands of supporters outside, who have time-and-again proven their ability to rally by the tens of thousands — do you think that we won’t do the same at the convention?

And finally, things are going to become very, very interesting when the super-delegates and the DNC are forced to choose, publicly, whether to hand the nomination to Clinton and watch the millions of independents walk away, along with millions of former-democrat Sanders-supporters, basically handing the general election to the neo-fascists Trump or Cruz — or, to hand it to Sanders, a leader who will have the support, not only of the entire Democratic Party, but of millions of Independents, Green Party voters, and — yes, indeed — even Republicans defecting from the extremist GOP. That will be the most interesting part, I think. I’ll see you all in Philadelphia.

In Solidarity,
John Laurits

P.S. Please feel totally free to reproduce this article, re-post, re-use, re-cycle, or whatever, in whole or in part — credit would be lovely but, ultimately, I don’t really care! Do as ye will! Peace!

#SeeYouInPhilly

https://johnlaurits.com/2016/04/28/this-is-what-will-happen-at-the-democratic-convention/


39 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Why Clinton Will Not Secure the Nomination, According to Math (Original Post) NorthCarolina May 2016 OP
Bernie's going all the way to the convention baby! Sorry Hillary supporters... deal wit it! InAbLuEsTaTe May 2016 #1
and I'll fully support him until this primary is settled. As long as he stays in and neither B Calm May 2016 #7
Agreed. InAbLuEsTaTe May 2016 #19
Congratulations SCantiGOP May 2016 #26
So what. He loses there. brush May 2016 #32
This argument was idiotic a month ago when it was first posted brooklynite May 2016 #2
It's all about the Revolution. Sparkly May 2016 #6
They really need to trademark that, or someone will steal it... brooklynite May 2016 #10
Because terrorizing and bullying somehow produce democracy? MADem May 2016 #11
By Then What Started As A DRIP Will Transform Into A Water Fall.... CorporatistNation May 2016 #12
That's why we have super delegates. HassleCat May 2016 #3
Has any polling been done after the report on Hillary came out? flor-de-jasmim May 2016 #4
Clinton will clinch on June 7th KingFlorez May 2016 #5
What if it comes out NorthCarolina May 2016 #9
That's mathematically impossible KingFlorez May 2016 #13
It's not impossible, but it won't happen. Garrett78 May 2016 #18
Right now she's beating him by 300 PDs. It's not going to happen. nt ucrdem May 2016 #28
Hillary will have enough delegates for the nomination annavictorious May 2016 #8
Glad you asked my paid Hillary supporter friend Skink May 2016 #14
What is "Delusional?", Alex JoePhilly May 2016 #15
According to his calculation, Clinton only needs 35.6% of all the remaining votes. DetlefK May 2016 #16
#berniemath! YouDig May 2016 #17
The pledged delegate majority is 2026. joshcryer May 2016 #20
Bernie can't get to 2,383 by PDs alone anyway. ucrdem May 2016 #23
Clinton probably won't. joshcryer May 2016 #30
She'll clear both thresholds. In fact she'll beat Sanders in every metric. ucrdem May 2016 #33
Yeah, delegate majority with NJ. joshcryer May 2016 #34
That's completely ridiculous as I'm sure you know. ucrdem May 2016 #21
Never ceases to amaze me beachbumbob May 2016 #22
I like the ".xxx or xx.x%" phrasing -- adds gravitas tandem5 May 2016 #24
. realmirage May 2016 #25
This tripe is a month old and long debunked Tarc May 2016 #27
They'll still be posting this 8 years from now ucrdem May 2016 #29
Like how there's still a handful of birthers around in 2016, still Tarc May 2016 #36
K & R AzDar May 2016 #31
Bernie!Bernie!Bernie! RobertEarl May 2016 #35
+1 Scuba May 2016 #37
Message auto-removed Name removed May 2016 #38
The author is an idiot mythology May 2016 #39

InAbLuEsTaTe

(24,122 posts)
1. Bernie's going all the way to the convention baby! Sorry Hillary supporters... deal wit it!
Mon May 30, 2016, 10:42 AM
May 2016

Go Bernie go!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2016!!!

 

B Calm

(28,762 posts)
7. and I'll fully support him until this primary is settled. As long as he stays in and neither
Mon May 30, 2016, 10:55 AM
May 2016

candidate has the required amount of delegates, prematurely calling the primary for Hillary would not be right by any stretch.

SCantiGOP

(13,871 posts)
26. Congratulations
Mon May 30, 2016, 08:37 PM
May 2016

The most delusional post of the month.

It's over next week, and Bernie will acknowledge the fact.

brooklynite

(94,591 posts)
2. This argument was idiotic a month ago when it was first posted
Mon May 30, 2016, 10:42 AM
May 2016

It boils down to, Superdelegates will be scared of Bernie's fanboy crowds outside the Convention.

The crowds won't be there.

The Superdelegates won't be scared.

Hillary will be the nominee.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
11. Because terrorizing and bullying somehow produce democracy?
Mon May 30, 2016, 10:58 AM
May 2016

That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard!!!!


CorporatistNation

(2,546 posts)
12. By Then What Started As A DRIP Will Transform Into A Water Fall....
Mon May 30, 2016, 11:00 AM
May 2016

Think about it...

MSNBC To the deniers... Watch THIS Video... It is not comforting to think that she may well be the Democratic Nominee...

Hillary really betrayed Andrea Mitchell... The entire context of this report was of a solemn nature... A Funeral so to speak...

Andrea Mitchell "I do not see this report as ...ANYTHING BUT... DEVASTATING!"

Chuck Todd "After this I don't think that she could get confirmed for Attorney General!"

Lots of FIBBING by Hillary here.. for more than a year!

 

HassleCat

(6,409 posts)
3. That's why we have super delegates.
Mon May 30, 2016, 10:46 AM
May 2016

To keep our chosen candidate from having to endure the inconvenience of being stuck a few delegates short of the nomination. Clinton will wind up with more pledged delegates and more votes than Sanders, and that's good enough. It will be a nasty convention, but that won't stop Clinton.

KingFlorez

(12,689 posts)
5. Clinton will clinch on June 7th
Mon May 30, 2016, 10:53 AM
May 2016

2026 is the magic number for pledged delegates and she will reach that number without much trouble next week.

 

NorthCarolina

(11,197 posts)
9. What if it comes out
Mon May 30, 2016, 10:57 AM
May 2016

as 2026 Sanders and 2025 Clinton (which is quite possible)? Should Hillary still get the nod regardless because she is ahead in Super D's, or should the "2026 magic number" secure the nod for Sanders?

KingFlorez

(12,689 posts)
13. That's mathematically impossible
Mon May 30, 2016, 11:01 AM
May 2016

Out of what is left, it's quite impossible for Sanders to reach 2026 and it's definitely impossible for a near tie to occur. Sanders would have to win 80% in California to get 2026.

Garrett78

(10,721 posts)
18. It's not impossible, but it won't happen.
Mon May 30, 2016, 02:07 PM
May 2016

He could reach 2026 by winning 67.5% of the remaining delegates. But, yes, he'd need to do better than that in CA to make up for losing NJ. At least 75%, if not 80%.

DetlefK

(16,423 posts)
16. According to his calculation, Clinton only needs 35.6% of all the remaining votes.
Mon May 30, 2016, 11:30 AM
May 2016
the new magic number, for Sanders anyway, is actually 64.4% of the remaining states,


But if you write it like that, it looks like Clinton is winning...

joshcryer

(62,276 posts)
20. The pledged delegate majority is 2026.
Mon May 30, 2016, 08:28 PM
May 2016

This is just yet again Clinton getting a double standard. Obama didn't have the pledged delegate majority in 2008, was only ahead by 62 delegates, and no one questioned the super delegates giving the win to him.

joshcryer

(62,276 posts)
30. Clinton probably won't.
Mon May 30, 2016, 08:56 PM
May 2016

But she'll get the majority without supers, almost for certain.

Would be good if she outright got the majority with pledged, though. Would shut the idiotic double standard up.

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
33. She'll clear both thresholds. In fact she'll beat Sanders in every metric.
Mon May 30, 2016, 09:05 PM
May 2016

But that one really isn't a metric, it's just made up nonsense exploiting people's unfamiliarity with the terms. Note the first paragraph above for example, where the nutjob author uses "delegate" to mean both pledged and pledged+super. Really dumb.

joshcryer

(62,276 posts)
34. Yeah, delegate majority with NJ.
Mon May 30, 2016, 09:08 PM
May 2016

Pledged majority (without supers) when CA closes.

It's never made sense to argue pledged only while including supers. Only Clinton gets that double standard.

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
21. That's completely ridiculous as I'm sure you know.
Mon May 30, 2016, 08:30 PM
May 2016

Right now, Sanders can no longer get to 2,383 via PDs. There aren't enough left. So even using #BernieMath he'd need to rely on SDs to put him over. Hillary only needs 73 or fewer delegates to clinch and there are 806 up for grabs on June 7 alone.

 

beachbumbob

(9,263 posts)
22. Never ceases to amaze me
Mon May 30, 2016, 08:33 PM
May 2016

73 more delegates...it's done....and she'll have hundreds more...and sanders still loses

Tarc

(10,476 posts)
27. This tripe is a month old and long debunked
Mon May 30, 2016, 08:38 PM
May 2016

What purports to be an exercise in actual math devolves into #berniemath; being able to carry 64% (though it is ~68% now) of the vote, screaming for "re-votes", harping on superdelegates to vote for Bernie regardless of the pledged count, and so on.

I feel pity for people who are actually suckered in by this.

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
29. They'll still be posting this 8 years from now
Mon May 30, 2016, 08:43 PM
May 2016

to show how Hillary stole the nomination. Mark my words.

Tarc

(10,476 posts)
36. Like how there's still a handful of birthers around in 2016, still
Mon May 30, 2016, 11:03 PM
May 2016

Some ppl just cannot let go.

 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
35. Bernie!Bernie!Bernie!
Mon May 30, 2016, 09:24 PM
May 2016

I can already hear the chanting almost two months out.

It will become the chant heard round the world as thousands upon thousands of good US citizens petition the DNC with our voices.

Will the DNC become democratic and listen?

Will the establishment strike back with tear gas and batons?

Will the people prevail, or will democracy be crushed?

This is gonna be exciting as anything most of us have ever seen. Hooray for democracy!

Response to NorthCarolina (Original post)

 

mythology

(9,527 posts)
39. The author is an idiot
Tue May 31, 2016, 08:08 AM
May 2016

Clinton has won more open primaries than Sanders has. Clinton has won more open primaries than Sanders has won open and closed primaries.

Objectively Sanders does best in caucuses where fewer voters are able to turnout.

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