Don't they realize Hillary's going to be indicted and Biden's gonna have to step in...?

[bigtree]

Lynn Smith Miller ?@millerlynn7772 3h3 hours ago
Los Angeles Times endorses Hillary Clinton in California Democratic primary http://upi.com/6316142t via @upi

[Thinkingabout]

1. No, they apparently think if Hillary is indicted then her delegates goes to Sanders, not how it

Works.

[SheilaT]

2. Why should Biden step in?

There really is someone else running, who has quite a few delegates on his side.

If she is indicted, it needs to be before the Convention, so that they can simply go with Bernie instead. If it happens after the Convention, if she's nominated, most likely her VP choice will become head of the ticket and a new VP choice will happen. If Biden is her VP, which I seriously doubt will happen, then it will be him.

Otherwise, if the Party tries to cram Biden down our throats, it will be the end of the Democratic Party for sure.

[bigtree]

6. it's gonna happen because I posted it here on the DU

...mark my words.

[SheilaT]

12. Oh, okay.

Just like back in January here on DU we were assured that Bernie Sanders would be lucky to win New Hampshire, and Hillary would put him away and secure the nomination no later than Super Tuesday. Gotcha.

[boston bean]

23. Hillary did secure the nomination on Super Tuesday, actually. nt

[SheilaT]

32. Then why, all these months later,

does she still not have the delegates to be certain of the nomination?

Oh, and the Super delegates are not pledged delegates and can change their vote at any time. So counting them, other than Bill Clinton, Super delegate, is a bit misleading.

[CorporatistNation]

20. AGREED! She WILL Be Indicted... FBI Has Zero Recourse.... If They Want To Retain Their Credibility

as a world renowned law enforcement organization.

Hillary has not a soul to blame but herself!

MSNBC To the deniers... Watch THIS Video... It is not comforting to think that she may well be the Democratic Nominee...

Hillary really betrayed Andrea Mitchell... The entire context of this report was of a solemn nature... A Funeral so to speak...

Andrea Mitchell "I do not see this report as ...ANYTHING BUT... DEVASTATING!"

Chuck Todd "After this I don't think that she could get confirmed for Attorney General!"

Lots of FIBBING by Hillary here.. for more than a year!

[thesquanderer]

24. re:"She WILL Be Indicted - FBI Has Zero Recourse- If They Want To Retain Their Credibility"

FBI can recommend indictment, it still doesn't necessarily mean she gets indicted. As I understand it, that will be up to the DOJ... basically, Loretta Lynch.

[Recursion]

21. But Clinton dropping out wouldn't mean Sanders gets those delegates

I have no idea why people seem so certain the party would flock to Sanders in that hypothetical; an actual brokered convention would probably come out with a dark horse nominee.

[SheilaT]

33. If Clinton drops out (and the same would apply if Sanders drops out)

then her (his) pledged delegates are set loose, free to vote for whomever they choose.

I am not about to predict that even a single one would switch to Sanders, although it seams reasonable that some of them would.

It's distantly possible that some other names would be put into nomination on the first ballot, possibly several favorite sons/daughters. So the former pledged Clinton delegates could be split several ways, and not enough switch to Sanders to give him the nomination.

The Supers then become a deck of wild cards. Again, I'm not going to predict what most of them will do, but I would suggest that a much larger number of them would support Bernie than currently do. But if it's not enough to give him the nomination, then it goes to a second ballot, and then all bets are off.

For those of you interested in knowing how a completely obscure (in the political sense) person can end up as the nominee after many convention ballots, and eventually be elected President, I'd warmly recommend Destiny of the Republic by Candace Millard. She goes into some detail about how delegates' votes switched over the course of the 36 ballots that it took to nominate him.

I don't know just how most Hillary supporters feel, but as a Bernie supporter the thought of Biden being rammed down our throats, should she withdraw, is genuinely offensive. I hope most Hillary people would feel the same way, were the situation reversed.

[ronnykmarshall]

3. I seen it here in BU!!

It's the troof!!!

[woolldog]

4. The Dem establishment

is not going to nominate someone in Clinton's place (assuming she is indicted) who's spent the last 6 months slamming them as corrupt, part of the oligarchy etc.

If it's not Hillary, it will be Biden.

[eastwestdem]

10. Oh so true. It's easy to see that the Dems are getting fed up. nt

[workinclasszero]

25. "If it's not Hillary, it will be Biden."

Yup but the Indictment Fairy is going to let them down.

The berners have to cling to their fantasies for a few days more. Its pathetic really.

[SheilaT]

34. It's not the Dem establishment

that will be the delegates at the convention. Most of the delegates are more or less ordinary people who in one manner or another secured the delegate slot.

The Bernie Sanders delegates will not switch over en masse to Biden, certainly not on a first ballot. In fact, they can't because they'll be obligated to vote for Bernie at least for the first ballot, maybe longer. I'm not fully up on all the rules here.

[woolldog]

37. The superdelegates are the Dem establishment

And BS cannot win without them. Hillary has them and also the majority of pledged delegates. They can vote for anyone after the first ballot. And the supers can vote for anyone even on the first.

The way it will likely happen if Hillary is indicted: first ballot, no one wins since the superdelegates will not vote for someone who has been indicted.

Then the Dem establishment turns to Biden.

Second ballot, superdelegates move to Biden, the free pledged delegates follow, but not enough. A lot of confusion. HRC asks her delegates to vote for Biden b/c of electability. Bill Clinton and the rest of the establishment rallies around Biden and persuades HRC's pledged delegates. Supers are already on board.

Third ballot or fourth ballot. Everyone coalesces around Biden, who can win without any Sanders delegates.

Biden is the nominee.

[SheilaT]

38. I find it hard to imagine that enough Supers

would unite against Bernie to deny him the nomination. You are assuming that not a single Hillary delegate would switch to Bernie.

Here's my take: If (and that's a huge if) Hillary is indicted and (another huge word, that and) Hillary withdraws from the race, all of her delegates are set loose at that point. They are now free agents. At least some of them will have a sense of fairness sufficient to move them to vote for Bernie.

In your scenario, who do the super delegates vote for on the first ballot? If not Hillary, who? Already some (not very many, I grant you that) are planning to vote for Bernie. It's quite likely that very many more will turn to Bernie at this point, possibly enough to nominate him.

In reality, I don't see it going beyond the first ballot: Hillary indicted. She drops out of the race. Her delegates are now free agents. Some number of them move to Bernie. About half of the Supers likewise go with Bernie. And that's the nomination.

It's simply not credible to me that every single one of her pledged delegates would move directly to Biden.

The real nightmare scenario is that she's indicted either at the very start of the Convention, or anytime between it and election day.

A related question: Would a person have to have been formally nominated for the delegates, pledged and super, to be able to vote for him or her? Are they free to vote for anyone at all, once the votes to which they are bound ends?

[annavictorious]

5. How dare the newspapers rig the election for Hillary

by endorsing her.

Why is it that the editorial boards always endorse Hillary? How much is Brock paying them?

[bigtree]

9. Brock is EVERYwhere!!!III

[livetohike]

7. More evidence DU is not the real world. n/t

[OhZone]

8. Liked for sarcasm nt.

[yellowcanine]

11. I guess they just don't DU so they don't know.....

[Ken Burch]

14. Biden would be unacceptable.

He's past it and he no longer has any broad appeal(if he ever did).

Nominating him would insult women and POC(he STILL hasn't apologized, as far as I know, for throwing Anita Hill under the bus) and would give Trump the perfect person to run against...a bland, detached establishmentarian who is totally out of touch with the people.

[Chasstev365]

15. Hillary Supporters Literally Can't Even Entertain the Possibility that She May Be in Legal Trouble

They are in denial. It's not Benghazi and it's not the serve issues. It's going to be the Clinton Foundation "Pay to Play." You can't have an indicted nominee, even with the name Clinton.

[katmille]

16. Like Jane Sanders?

And like Bernie? Can you say FEC violations?

[sadoldgirl]

18. Do you know by chance that an FBI investigation

is somewhat more serious than the FEC problem?

Are you still claiming that the FBI is only performing
a "security review", after what Comey said?

[NorthCarolina]

36. I thought they were claiming

it was an "inquiry" by the Federal Bureau of Inquiries.

[Chasstev365]

22. Such a clear comparison. NOT!

For the record, I have said on many DU posts that ANY candidate (Bernie Sanders included) who has been indicted should not be the nominee of the Democratic Party. Can you say the same about Hillary Clinton?

[BootinUp]

17. They hadn't heard about the Racketeering investigation yet

[Sunlei]

19. no, no worries, Bernie will be the VP so he can step-in if needed.

"Everything's going to be ok"

Biden 2015

[stone space]

26. How many delegates does Biden have so far?

Last I heard, most of the delegates were split between two candidates.

I wasn't even aware that Biden was running.

[apcalc]

27. Total bullshit

She will not be indicted. Silly. A republican wet dream.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

28. Well, you're half right... the part about Hillary being indicted. Say hello to president Sanders.

Bernie & Elizabeth 2016!!!

[redstateblues]

29. LOL. Bernie would get crushed in the GE

[Algernon Moncrieff]

31. Yep!

Aging socialists aren't who mainstream America is looking to elect.

[Algernon Moncrieff]

30. If Hillary can't be the nominee, I'm good with Biden

[brooklynite]

35. Um, the LA Times endorsement was two weeks ago.

I know; I posted it here.