2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumBernie or Bust Faithfull are Heroes to Me
It simply amazes me, how contrary to be a progressive, this whole paradigm is, of the "I'm with Her" diehards; no matter how much bad faith is documented; and how much loyalty to oligarh'ism, Hillary Rodham Clinton resume empirically denotes. Even worse, is the fact that her loyalists are not just opponents, but that they actually despise me, and others alike, because I'm for Bernie Sanders. Now there's so much hate here, at DU, against U.S. Bern'rs, there's even a thread lambasting Bern's or Bust as not being heroes.
Bern or Bust faithful, are heroes to me!
All things considered, here we are, loyal to a 70ish ole man, who has spent all his life, 99% of the time, on the progressive side of things, L O N G before doing so was popular; and because we dare to be democratic about the Democratic election, we are disparaged - regularly.
Do you not understand, Bern or Bust is a commitment to U.S.?
Have those who look down upon U.S., their fellow citizens, with such disdain, ever even considered the fact that you likely need our vote, to win the general election?
Is there any time, ever, of Hillarians taking the time to review Clinton's actions, speaking louder than words, of how she represented a rapist, or Walmart (that rapes all of U.S., including their workers - monetarily), or Monsanto?
Or how about the fact that she took millions of dollars - from foreigners - as Secretary of State?
That really doesn't bother you? ..................................... REALLY!
If Bernie had done 1/10th of those things that Hillary has done, we would never be backing the guy.
NEVER!
Bernie Sanders is one true, red white and blue American, so good at what he does, he gets 25% of Republicans, to vote for him, in Vermont. This is a guy that Hillary's loyal lambast for his wife's tenure at a school that gones bust, as if such were Senator Sanders fault;
but you find no fault at all - whatsoever - of Hillary's vanishing 30,000 emails, and that of her aides too....
REALLY????
The definitions of heroes, are warped, as the very 1st item in most dictionary's, online, state it is a "man" distinguished. So in that sense, neither I, nor half of Sanders followers, fit the bill. But as for the 3rd or 4th, define (depending on where you're looking) it states a heror is "someone who fights for a cause".
As I've been called both a Quixote and a hero, I'll own both the quixotic moniker and this latter denote of fighting for a cause.
To all my fellow Anonymous, 99%'rs, decent progressives and, especially, my fellow Bern'rs
THANK YOU - you are heroes to me - as those who are fighting a noble and just, cause.
As for Hillarians, you are diehard loyal to her, and that's your choice; because you've adopted a stance that "what difference does it make" for her email server, vanishing items, decades of workings with the dark side; and don't even care about things like ManPADs.
What difference does your posture make - to me - is a permanent line in the sand. Hillary Rodham Clinton took money from Goldman Sachs, who deliberately destroyed our eToys.com public company, and my career, with my daughter being abducted and an eToys shareholder (Robert Alber) having to shoot/kill, a career criminal, when he turned down their bribe.
Goldman Sachs partnered with Bain Capital, using a MNAT law firm partner, arranged to be the prosecutor over our case. https://www.justice.gov/archive/olp/colmconnollyresume.htm
And the Public Corruption Task Force was shut down, to cover all that up - with career federal prosecutors being ordered to silence (as was those who raised questions about Hillary's non government email server), while Eric Holder didn't do a DAM thing about it.http://articles.latimes.com/2008/mar/20/local/me-shakeup20
With Bernie Sanders, I have a 99% chance of getting a new U.S. Attorney General that will look into the matter.
Unfortunately, with Hillary Clinton, the opposite is more likely to be true. I'll have a 99% chance she will never look into the matter. She's been taking money from big oil, big pharma, foreign persons and Goldman Sachs. The chances she'll pick anything other than a female version of Eric Holder, is not even a rhetorical question. For dang sure, with her as President, I'm not ever going to see justice.
The fact that Hillarians don't care about that - due to the diehardiness - is just plain sick.
As for the general election - we'll see.
[br][hr][br]
65 votes, 3 passes | Time left: Unlimited | |
Bernie Sanders followers are heroic, fighting for a good cause. | |
0 (0%) |
|
Hillary is fighting for herself | |
1 (2%) |
|
Bern of Bust is a commitment to America | |
0 (0%) |
|
We will never have another chance for a guy like Bernie | |
0 (0%) |
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All of the above | |
58 (89%) |
|
Hillary is going to be the next President of the United States - No Matter What | |
6 (9%) |
|
3 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided. | |
Show usernames
Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll |
Metric System
(6,048 posts)Bust since it helps your side.
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)And your inference that its wrong, to remark up a start fact, just demonstrates how obtuse you desire to be.
We have the right to vex bad faith people, with their bad faith acts.
pinebox
(5,761 posts)laserhaas
(7,805 posts)emulatorloo
(44,182 posts)Very rarely does the person I support in the Primary end up being the nominee.
Bernie came really close this time. Been a hell of a trailblazer and advocate. This movement is not over.
That being said, every person should vote their conscience.
IMHO that should includes some thought about those who would be most damaged by a Trump presidency.
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)It won't matter what the DNC did.
emulatorloo
(44,182 posts)laserhaas
(7,805 posts)Can't wait to see the legalities - unfold.
840high
(17,196 posts)some though about those who would be most damaged by a Hillary presidency.
Bleacher Creature
(11,257 posts)laserhaas
(7,805 posts)I'm betting your ram of her, down our throats, is more of a chance to elect the dark side.
Then it would have been, had you backed the real progressive - Bernie Sanders.
Metric System
(6,048 posts)pinebox
(5,761 posts)You forget that.
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)stop being such a hater
Alex4Martinez
(2,198 posts)The most ardent supporters, the blind supporters and super-delegates with them, are more responsible for the Trump presidency, if it happens, than Bernie Bros or the millions who decide to sit it out and not vote for her.
It is not the job of voters to support the mistakes of the party.
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)Just because they think the way they do
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)Doesnt agree with top brass speaking for all the members
Alex4Martinez
(2,198 posts)Hard working caring voters, screwed by entitled leadership, dizzy with power.
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)Elite v U.S. .......is always a struggle
840high
(17,196 posts)CorporatistNation
(2,546 posts)Hillary really betrayed Andrea Mitchell... The entire context of this report was of a solemn nature... A Funeral so to speak...
Andrea Mitchell "I do not see this report as ...ANYTHING BUT... DEVASTATING!"
Chuck Todd "After this I don't think that she could get confirmed for Attorney General!"
Lots of FIBBING by Hillary here.. for more than a year!
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)In the hopes it will all be forgotten....by Tuesday.
We'll see.....
pinebox
(5,761 posts)If he doesn't vote for Trump wouldn't that help Hillary?
Same. Exact. Logic.
Bleacher Creature
(11,257 posts)The "0+0=0" crap has been debated ad nauseam here. Skinner himself has debunked it. If it isn't clear to you now, it never will be.
Hillary may not be your ideal candidate. I support her completely, and there are still plenty of things that I disagree with her on, or that give me pause. But anyone who has been so jaded by the primary to believe that she doesn't offer a better vision for everyone in this country who considers themselves left of center - including the most ardent liberals - has lost their mind.
pinebox
(5,761 posts)Are you upset that 17 year olds are helping Trump too seeing as how they can't vote?
Does she offer a better vision than Trump? Sure. So did W. And?
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)But rather of those who dare to fight for a cause, against the brow beating fray.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)But for different reasons.
Trump is a buffoon who knows little to nothing, which could ruin our country.
But Hillary will have the backing of establishment Democrats and will mean-test Social Security, thus ruining it, with the support of half the Democrats and all the Republicans. She'll also have us at war with Iran so fast you're head will spin.
The fact is BOTH are horrible choices for our country, so it IS a "0+0=0" sum game.
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)With Hillary....1/2 Democratic party is already worshipping her...even if she will open up SS &go to war
Demsrule86
(68,667 posts)They are his heroes too...7 - 14 days and then bye bye to posts like this one.
Maru Kitteh
(28,342 posts)I think I'll start a countdown widget to June 16. Or write a song about it. Or maybe try to capture it in watercolors.
Demsrule86
(68,667 posts)YouDig
(2,280 posts)NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)And I'm a nice gal.
😀
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)laserhaas
(7,805 posts)I just believe your heart is in the right place; but your head isn't (sometimes).
As it is written "the road to hell is paved with good intentions"
With her, expanding on the empirical (undeniables) - we are on the road to hell.
And Democrats will be blamed.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Sorry you had to take a weak shot in a positive conversation.
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)I believe all who are on board with Hillary, can't justify their actions - with sound logic.
And, as you can see from my notes, in the thread (that I've testified to - btw - under penalty of {many times}) - I've got good reason to worry; because my life, liberty and children's inheritance (stolen) - is on the line.
She took money from those who stole from me
Therefore, she has my money (though it may be .000000941 percent)
How would you feel, as a victim of Capone, who had your daughter abducted;
about anybody telling you it is Nitti's "time".
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)laserhaas
(7,805 posts)As a byproduct of my being 'Laser the Liquidator'.
I've given to wine, more than beer (except, maybe, a Heiniken or 2 - on my birthday.
Which is 10/31 - btw - as most say that explains alot.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)I believe I know what you mean when you say that.
If so, successful ones are some of the most intense and hardest working people I have ever come across. Both physically and mentally.
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)Getting back what Goldman Sachs and Bain Capital stole.
Ive got confessions to lying under oath to chief justice
Who said she doesnt care.
dlwickham
(3,316 posts)laserhaas
(7,805 posts)Is electing Drumph
Demsrule86
(68,667 posts)So think hard on that. The GOP packs the courts...it is over. All the progress since Roosevelt gone. Millions would die. I am not exaggerating...
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)Surely you don't wish that - to demise?
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)laserhaas
(7,805 posts)Your thread stated - boldly - what you think of me.
And my retort, is what I think of the whole process.
I'm not voting Trump, nor am I voting Hillary (actually - die is cast)
Because, IMO - in DEMOCRATIC America - neither of them are fit.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)laserhaas
(7,805 posts)But I'm use to being the reject - and lone wolf.
Has always been that way
...... will always be that way.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Last edited Sun May 29, 2016, 03:16 PM - Edit history (1)
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)Of doung the very thing you are doing..
Putting a nation at risk because of emotion
I stead of having common sense
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)DemocratSinceBirth
(99,711 posts)Everything else is commentary.
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)Romney, instead of the other 2.
Hillary will have U.S. Dems, fighting each other - and the GOP being glorified, all the while.
With Mitt there - I can target him - and the press just might pay attention.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,711 posts)I would support him against Hitler, too... Hell , I would have supported Ernst Thalmann, the Communist, and prayed for the best.
To recap if I was a Verman citizen in 1932 I would have voted for
First choice- Otto Wels (Social Democratic Party of Germany)
Second choice -Ludwig Kaas -(Centre Party)
Third Choice-Ernst Thalmann - (Communist Party)
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)I've no choice - in the matter.
BootinUp
(47,186 posts)baldguy
(36,649 posts)Phony "progressives" who refuse to support the progressive Democratic candidate who WILL be the nominee of the Democratic Party. Trump loves them.
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)I'm going to write in Bernie's name, no matter what; because I'm a Progressive, votig for a Progressive.
And you - dare to tell me, call me, a faux progressive - condescendingly; because my vote for anyone else - but your gal - makes me a Trumpists.
As it is, odds likely, you are going to get your way, with her the nominee - we'll really see.
It seems to me that Trump, like Hillary, is the one afraid to debate Bernie, in California.
And those actions, speak much louder, than your bogus words, haughtily
baldguy
(36,649 posts)"How dare you!", indeed.
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)Is much more valid...than we're the ones.
Your pushing an oligarch ..haughty..her turn down our throats...with tons of baggage
And Im active for a true progressive
basselope
(2,565 posts)She is what is wrong with the democratic party.
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)Greatly concur
Joob
(1,065 posts)I'm going to stand up for what I value and believe in as many others are. Bernie sends a message for people to stand up and take action. That a President can never do anything alone. That a President will need the people. And I'll be damned if I ever vote Hillary just because of Trump.
No. I want this lesser of two evil shit to end and many others do too. I believe in people and their values.
I believe a lot of people are waking up because of Bernie Sanders. Think about that. They aren't waking up because of Hillary or Donald. We will stand up and fight corruption and bigotry. A president can't do that alone.
No matter what happens, nothing will get done if we keep giving in to corruption.
Nothing will ever get done if money continues to influence candidates.
I will fight that throughout the election, that includes fighting Hillary if she wins the nomination.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)basselope
(2,565 posts)Clinton was never a consideration for my vote. NEVER. I didn't vote for her husband, I didn't vote for Obama or Kerry (Gore and Dukakis were the only democratic presidential votes I cast in my lifetime).
The ONLY thing that made me decide to register democratic was Bernie Sanders joining the party. I will change my registration as soon as the primary is over.
The democratic party abandoned its values back in the 90s when it became the party of big business. When the democratic president declared "the era of big government is over", just solidifying the nonsense that government is a bad thing and can't do anything right.. when if you worked in the business world for 5 minutes, you would find out that ANY large company is EXACTLY the same.
I am guessing there are very few (if anyone) who considered voting for Clinton and then decided, that's it, "I'm Bernie or Bust". People have simply adopted this as way of expressing that we are not voting for another corporate candidate. We didn't plan to and no amount of fear mongering is going to change it. If you want our vote, you put forth a candidate that shares our values. If you don't want our vote.. go with Clinton and enjoy 4 years of Trump.
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)Or oppression ejectings ...could ever assuage U.S. from our bereavement for the demise of America and the Democratic party.
I stand up each and every day...giving the finger to Sachs, Romney and the DOJ corrupt that protects them
They will never take away my devotion to calling them into account...
Vinca
(50,303 posts)the actual choices. One is sane and the other is insane. I don't agree with the sane person much of the time, but she's definitely safer around the nuclear codes. Trump could start WWIII and he'll be so self-obsessed he won't realize he's done it.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)Just think of all the books and movies that would be made about him if he started as big a war as Hitler started!
Assuming there would still be people around to write the books and movies.
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)Much
Vinca
(50,303 posts)laserhaas
(7,805 posts)Your remark wasnt on running the country
It was on who would be quicker..to pull the Nuke trigger
Vinca
(50,303 posts)Last edited Sun May 29, 2016, 08:01 PM - Edit history (1)
And what's any of this got to do with "dignity?" Or "authority?" Strange remark.
My avatar speaks of this.
You dont see us Bern'rs calling you names...and saying your anti American...because you wont vote for Bernie
Nor do we scream..condescend
We just tell you who we are...and back a good man
AtomicKitten
(46,585 posts)The IG report came out yesterday verifying that Hillary lied through her teeth about her private server and emails all last year. What was the result? Her camp immediately parsed the report, actually claiming it validated her lies. And the lies didn't phase a single one of her supporters here. Just business as usual. To me, it shows how untrustworthy Hillary is, that she will lie about anything and everything, and would be as secretive as Nixon. No thanks. I'm a lifelong Democrat, have worked for the party for many years, and I'm saying no to this bullshit. The party has been taken over by Clinton Corporate Democrats. They jammed her down our throats and they are on their own.
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)if Clinton becomes the nominee.
But, Hillary fans have been longing for their bubble and will continue to ignore the brewing unsecured server mess until it blows up in their faces and they can't ignore it.
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)Her charity (Foundation) took in many millions of dollars ....while she was Sec. Of State....from foreigners she presided over.
We use to call it something else
.........when heads of state took in millions of dollars
Just ask Senator Stevens (went to jail over a chair)
Or Traficant ( who went over a rent-a-car)
...or Governor Siegelman who still is in ..for less
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)even people like Elizabeth Warren have the courage of their convictions. The word heroic is a bit strong although I would consider the people willing to go jail during OWS were pretty heroic. I'm almost willing to put Bernie and Elizabeth into that category too because instead of taking the easy way out in order to become rich and ensure they keep their jobs they are willing to turn down millions of dollars in easy money and risk their job in order to fight for workers, the poor, and the disabled. Not many people have the character to do that.
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)World class examples of great character
qdouble
(891 posts)laserhaas
(7,805 posts)Nobody is supporting Trump
Other than the ones who believe she has a better chance than Bernie does...because they dont care how much baggage she has
But Trump sure will
qdouble
(891 posts)you are essentially supporting Trump.
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)And your logic assumes many things
Including the dynamic that Mitt's not coming
qdouble
(891 posts)It's a waste of time basically, but once again, if you're not advocating that democrats actually vote for the party's nominee, it achieves the same thing as being a Trump soupporter
And We're all fighting over hypothetics
Its not there....yet
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)laserhaas
(7,805 posts)So..being that I've always been on the wrong side of the tracks....I posted this one....of my opine....retortive
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)I've never seen DU this way before.
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)And no one is going to bully me or anyone else around me
barrow-wight
(744 posts)The point of a poll is to gauge opinions. This poll essentially only allows for one overarching mindset. Nice echo chamber you've got there.
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)They're sayin...
barrow-wight
(744 posts)zappaman
(20,606 posts)Last edited Sun May 29, 2016, 06:09 PM - Edit history (1)
The Bernie or bust contingent.
MyNameGoesHere
(7,638 posts)Makes as much sense as this diatribe, poll, unicorn worship. Not sure what it is really.
ZombieHorde
(29,047 posts)but I will vote against Trump if that is the situation I find myself in.
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)Unless...of course...Trump is not the only option
It's a strange year
......and it ain't over.....yet
[center]
Just sayin.....
ZombieHorde
(29,047 posts)I think people should vote their conscience and logic, whatever that may be.
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)And conscience is the right word
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)Mitt's probably coming
democrattotheend
(11,607 posts)I think your post draws a false dichotomy. Yes, Bernie is 1000 times better than Hillary in a lot of respects. Yes, I would much rather have him as president than Hillary. And yes, everyone who has been fighting the good fight on his behalf is to be commended.
But Bernie or Bust is not about getting Bernie nominated over Hillary or getting Bernie elected president. Bernie or Bust is about refusing to vote for Hillary in the general election if Bernie is not on the ballot, which, at least for swing state voters, will do nothing but potentially enable Donald Trump to become president. And as someone who supports Bernie and all that he stands for, I refuse to play any part in allowing a racist meglomaniac to get into the White House.
I have periodically flirted with the idea of casting a protest vote in November, but only because I live in a solid blue state. If I lived in a swing state I wouldn't even have to think about it.
Joob
(1,065 posts)I refuse to let people stand aside for corruption and bigotry. I want what Bernie wants.
I want to wake people up and stand up for Democracy. We need to know our political system inside and out to stand and fight with it. Not ignore it because Corruption vs Bigotry.
So what? Are with left with two options? Fight Bigotry or Fight corruption?
Why can't we have both options??
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)Another choice
Instead of Capone or Nitti
Joob
(1,065 posts)instead of my own. Works better, because people think without being told to
laserhaas
(7,805 posts)laserhaas
(7,805 posts)The bust is all who aren't...to allow her highness to be the choice..come hell or high water