2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forum‘Game On’: Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump Just Agreed to Debate
Donald Trump just told late night host Jimmy Kimmel that hed be willing to debate Bernie Sanders in California for charity. And Sanders is game.
Trump, the presumptive Republican nominee, was asked if hed be willing to debate Senator Bernie Sanders ahead of Californias primary since Hillary Clinton rejected a Democratic debate invitation from Fox News. Surprisingly, the billionaire real estate developer was warm to the idea, saying hed debate Sanders as long as the hosting network was willing to donate the ad revenue proceeds from the event to charity.
<snip>
The venue, host, and time of the hypothetical debate has yet to be announced, though its likely one could be arranged in the coming two weeks before the June 7 contest.
The former Secretary of State has come under criticism this week for her refusal to debate Sen. Sanders, given that she agreed to four additional presidential debates in February, with one debate every month. The Democratic candidates have debated three times, and the Sanders campaign has pushed for a debate in California, the state with the most pledged delegates at stake out of all states and territories. Clinton reneged on that promise recently, flatly refusing to debate.
http://usuncut.com/politics/bernie-sanders-donald-trump-debate/
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)This election is clearly like no other.
firebrand80
(2,760 posts)The only reason Trump would agree to do this would be because he thinks he can use it make Hillary look bad. Trump doesn't give a damn about debating Bernie, he wants to use the free media to tee off on Hillary.
I already know that many of his supporters think that's just dandy, but I will lose some respect for Bernie if he goes through with this.
Sidenote: I don't expect this to actually happen.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)Bernie has given Hillary a free pass.....he won't do Trump the same favor.
firebrand80
(2,760 posts)then I have to problem with it. I tend to doubt that's how it will go.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)This is Bernie's opportunity to show everyone that HE is the person who can take down Trump.
It can go no other way.
Trump has been fooled by the generally hands-off approach that Democrats have taken with each other in the primary.
He imagines that facing Bernie will be child's play.
Baobab
(4,667 posts)Hillary may have trouble debating Trump because they are friends.
And thats not all..
their daughters are literally best friends.
R B Garr
(16,973 posts)He has to use Hillary to elevate himself because that is the crux of his message. Everything is rigged and corrupt, so Hillary is rigged and corrupt. That's how dedicated he is to NOT giving her a free pass.
Bernie would be lost without attacking Hillary. He's obsessed with it.
themaguffin
(3,826 posts)...over" etc etc. This forum would have even more irrational hatred of her.
R B Garr
(16,973 posts)would be riots. Now Bernie is suing California to allow more voters who would want to vote for him register past the May 23rd deadline. Can you imagine if Hillary expected an entire state to change rules so people could register past the deadline to vote for her?
IRRATIONAL hatred is the exactly correct word.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)You should come out of the Hillary bunker every once in a while and get some fresh air.
R B Garr
(16,973 posts)hating on Hillary. He is a broken record and says the same thing over and over. Everything is rigged and corrupt.
And bullshit on the "General Election argument." Bernie lost in the Washington primary last night where over 700,000 participated instead of the 26,000 in the caucus. The only "argument" left since he's losing in the delegate count and popular vote was that the super delegates would be badgered into supporting him in states he won by a large margin. But that's out the door, too, since Hillary won Washington.
Losing by every known metric does not make you a winner. It looks like you are the one spending too much time in the Bernie bunker.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)but not as fun as the upcoming debate.
R B Garr
(16,973 posts)has to offer. Anyone and everything that does not conform to Bernie coddling and adoration is belittled and called names. Bernie himself does nothing but attack others. It's pretty funny to watch the desperate measures Bernie takes to salvage his losing campaign.
I noticed you have no comment on Hillary beating Bernie in the Washington primary last night. Everything must stay focused on some last ditch hope you have to pull Bernie out of the loser column.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)As for Washington....I can't help it that Hillary supporters couldn't be bothered to show up when it actually counted.
R B Garr
(16,973 posts)He thrives on maligning her. That's his whole strategy. And he's still losing.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)That is the problem with Hillary's candidacy.......too many inconvenient truths.
R B Garr
(16,973 posts)one single Wall Street executive he would prosecute, but he calls them all frauds. He just likes his talking points. He just calls everything corrupt and rigged, and his adoring fans clap. He is not held accountable for anything he says. It's all applause lines.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)These firms don't face multi-billion dollar fines for the actions of one individual here or there.
His attorney general would get more specific.
Hillary thinks the solution is taking cash from Wall St.
R B Garr
(16,973 posts)More losing talking points. Sanders is not held accountable for his rhetoric. After campaigning for a year on Wall Street fraud, he can't name any of the actual fraudsters.
He hasn't said anything about an Attorney General getting more specific. The Wall Street collapse was eight (8) years ago.
All he has is applause lines mostly rooted in Hillary hate by claiming everything is rigged and corrupt, so Hillary is rigged and corrupt.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)that explains it all.
The corruption is hiding in plain sight.
R B Garr
(16,973 posts)single decision Hillary made that was influenced by her Wall Street speeches and he choked.
He had no answer to that. Proof it's all talking points.
He is not accountable for his rhetoric. They are just applause lines.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)with no expectations from big business.
When they pay you in advance, how can you point to a decision that is influenced? The influence comes after she becomes President.
R B Garr
(16,973 posts)bkkyosemite
(5,792 posts)She is now watching what she says because she needs his supporters. She changes like the weather. Bernie is running for President and the Primary is still on. I hope he does debate the ass.
R B Garr
(16,973 posts)Bernie attacks her constantly to make a name for himself, but she cannot respond because his supporters will have a cow. She said it on MTP and many others in the media have said it --no one has attacked Bernie. His supporters here have even complained how much he's been ignored by the press. You can't have it both ways.
bkkyosemite
(5,792 posts)smacking down Bernie just like HRC has done over and over...You are the denial folks. Bernie has talked about her catering to Wall Street and big bucks she got from them. She owes them big time. He's talked about her bad judgement re: war, he has targeted the issues she has flipped flopped on. Those are primary based issues. I'm sick of the 180 degree turns on Bernie. She has constantly put him down and now is kissy kissy cuz she needs his supporters...where is that throw up icon
R B Garr
(16,973 posts)getting enough press coverage. That means he has gotten a cakewalk since no one has attacked him. It's obvious to everyone rational person that he has not been attacked. The GOP has left him alone because he's doing their job attacking Hillary.
He is not vetted. He sticks to his talking points, which is that everything is corrupt and rigged.
He was asked in a debate to name one policy that Hillary influenced as a result of her speeches, and he couldn't name one. It's all talking points.
And I've got some throw up icons right here. So sick of his phoniness!
PufPuf23
(8,816 posts)Hillary Clinton chose to run for POTUS on her record and her campaign tactics are those of a Republican.
Sanders himself has been low key and relatively respectful of Hillary Clinton, more than Clinton deserves imho.
I would be glad to see a Sanders - Trump debate happen in California before the primary here.
I would expect that Sanders would do an adroit take down of Trump in favor of the Democratic party (and nation) and Trump would not benefit from the many real and perceived negative actions of Clinton. I do not think Clinton would fare as well as Sanders in debate with Trump.
R B Garr
(16,973 posts)much all he has. His whole message is about a rigged system and everyone is corrupt. He has been extremely disrespectful to Clinton. His surrogates are nasty creeps about not only Clinton, but anyone who supports her and the Democratic party, as well. He channels his entire campaign through the lens of Hillary hate. It's completely irrational.
Sanders hasn't won a debate yet to the point that he is mocked because of his repetitiveness. Google Bernie Bingo. Someone posted that here last week. Sanders can't or won't deviate from those words: corporations, Wall Street, 1%, oligarchs, etc. He hasn't done it yet, and he isn't going to.
PufPuf23
(8,816 posts)who don't want the violence and greed associated with neo-liberals and neo-conservatives.
I am not so locked into Sanders but find his rejection of neo-liberalism and neo-conservatism refreshing and an unexpected choice.
There is plenty to mock about Hillary Clinton and other aspects not so funny.
R B Garr
(16,973 posts)Sanders is not anti-drone; he is not anti-war. He is not against advancing military weapons via the F-35 manufactured in his state. But it makes you feel superior to think otherwise, so who cares what fantasy world you live in. The rest of us live in the real world.
Sanders could not or would not name one single Wall Street executive he would prosecute, but he talks nonstop about their fraud. He couldn't get Single Payer passed in Vermont, yet he attacks others for something he, himself, failed at. Meh, too many of his phony talking points to list. It's boring at this point.
imagine2015
(2,054 posts)RKP5637
(67,112 posts)MyNameGoesHere
(7,638 posts)that is not the character of a good leader. He is unfit to lead the Democratic party. Maybe it's time he changes again to another party of convenience.
Eric J in MN
(35,619 posts)...she shouldn't debate Trump because it "legitimizes" him?
crystal dawn
(85 posts)Hillary would never fn tweet to Donald J. Drumpf and agree to debate him on FAUX news before the primary process is completed. A real leader would never do this!
Second of all, Bernie is just nuts. Not fit to lead!
NWCorona
(8,541 posts)pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)And now BERNIE will have the first GE debate with the GOP candidate.
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)and instead running on a "Hate" Hillary" campaign designed by Jeff Weaver
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)complain you acknowledge that she's not a strong candidate.
Hillary is the nominee, but Bernie needs his message on as many outlets as possible.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)Princess Weathervane is the biggest fraud the Democratic Party have ever perpetrated on the electorate.
asuhornets
(2,405 posts)Sanders will embarrass the Democratic Party and himself...
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)You also need to come out of the bunker.
peace13
(11,076 posts)Just sayin'.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)The GOP primary voters legitimized Trump. A stupid thing for them to do (hey...they're Republicans), but that's all the legitimizing a candidate needs.
Jester Messiah
(4,711 posts)Response to MyNameGoesHere (Reply #6)
Name removed Message auto-removed
pinebox
(5,761 posts)He is legitimate. He's the Republican candidate.
Would you say the same if Hillary is the nominee and debates Trump in the GE?
Maybe it's time Hillary quits being a chicken.
imagine2015
(2,054 posts)that would legitimize Trump.
Right.
That makes perfect sense .... nonsense that is.
ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)...police!!!
crystal dawn
(85 posts)Who does this? What in the high hell is Bernie thinking by doing this? He isn't even the nominee and he's going forward with a debate against the Republican before the process of primaries are even finished. And note Bernie tweeted he wanted it done BEFORE the California primary. What does he have to gain other than stroking his ego???
Demsrule86
(68,643 posts)airtime...not a team player...Bernie with 'friends' like him...who needs Republicans.
Eric J in MN
(35,619 posts)...his opposition to Trump.
Also, let Sanders spread his ideas (Single Payer, free tuition, etc.)
crystal dawn
(85 posts)by simply attacking him during his ego-driven rallies. Instead, he attacks the DNC and Hillary only. WTF is wrong with this old man and his faux revolution?
Eric J in MN
(35,619 posts)A debate would have more viewers.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)Fail.
pinebox
(5,761 posts)BernieforPres2016
(3,017 posts)Bernie has been attacking Trump in his stump speeches for months.
Say hi to David Brock for us.
Ned_Devine
(3,146 posts)"WTF is wrong with this old man and his faux revolution?" And now you're ageist?
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)You give a Hillary a pass on her dishonesty, but have the nerve to attack Sanders. Pathetic.
crystal dawn
(85 posts)what more could possibly be debated between Hillary and Bernie that we already don't know????
The two have had enough debates..between the TWO of them...not 16 or so side circus Republican dicks arguing who is the better dick.
Bernie is being blatantly disrespectful because he knows the DNC doesn't want to alienate his supporters.
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)It doesn't matter whether there is more to learn from the debate (and I disagree, you can always take something away from a debate), a promise is a promise. Keeping promises, no matter how inconvenient, is a sign a character--something Hillary and her followers don't seem to understand.
crystal dawn
(85 posts)This is nonsense. This kind of thing where debates are cancelled happen all the time and we have had more debates and town halls than originally planned for anyway. Remember there were only a few debates scheduled then Bernie yelled and screamed and the DNC and Hillary agreed to more.
Nontheless, candidates with a lead often decide not to debate because they're protecting a lead. Granted, you can fault Hillary for that. But maybe Hillary decided not to debate on FAUX news because she'd be crazy to, where that station and Sanders would love to humiliate her.
Ino
(3,366 posts)you're giving Brock his money's worth.
Bernie did not yell and scream. Hillary asked HIM for another debate, and he agreed on certain conditions. She said OK. Now she is reneging. Because her word means nothing.
Why are you soooo upset? Hillary doesn't want a debate, Hillary does not get a debate. If she wants one, she gets one.
Your poutrage and excuses are amusing.
:waaambulance:
crystal dawn
(85 posts)where Bernie and his supporters were deeply upset with Debbie WS and the DNC for scheduling so few debates and during time slots that were just unacceptable, I tell you! That must have been another universe I was living in. *eye roll*
ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)crystal dawn
(85 posts)You Bernsters have been whining since the beginning. The DNC and Hillary have given you babies concession after concession, given him 5 spots on the committee for the convention, and all Bernie does is sue, and complain, and bitch about the rules he agree to. The man (and his supporters) have gone full on mad.
ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)You should report this to somebody!
crystal dawn
(85 posts)the substance of what is said, simply deflect with insults. Later troll.
ChisolmTrailDem
(9,463 posts)Don't forget to tell Brock I said fuck off!
Ned_Devine
(3,146 posts)You can't even make this shit up
crystal dawn
(85 posts)is when you drop a drive by insult, which is what that other guy did and did not address a word I said. And now you are trolling me in this thread. Get a life.
Ned_Devine
(3,146 posts)dana_b
(11,546 posts)the biggest electoral state in the union, by not doing us the courtesy of a debate. And people are miffed about it. We do have issues that we'd like addressed too. How about the drought? Outrageous real estate? Worries about a future housing bubble/dot com bubble?
But you know what? Fine. Let's hear Bernie and Trump.
dana_b
(11,546 posts)SHE refused to debate. It's not his fault, Ms. "Anytime, Anywhere" can;t follow through.
I hope to the high heavens that this happens and that they DON'T allow Ms. Clinton into it.
Jester Messiah
(4,711 posts)And I must say it was very gracious of Hillary to clear the field and give Bernie this opportunity.
peace13
(11,076 posts)tom-servo
(185 posts)... better for Bernie Sanders if it goes well, but pretty good for Hillary Clinton no matter which way it goes.
AirmensMom
(14,648 posts)Bernie's not the one with the oversized ego. He actually cares about what happens to this country. Go figure. Maybe Hillary should stick to her word and do the debates she agreed to do.
Demsrule86
(68,643 posts)Wow, that should impress Democrats in California (not)...but I doubt Bernie can afford it because he has no money for charity or anything else.
Eric J in MN
(35,619 posts)NT
Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)Did anyone invite Rubio?
firebrand80
(2,760 posts)NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)This would be awesome. It would be a great starting place for Sanders to start making amends.
crystal dawn
(85 posts)but I see the only person gaining from this is Trump. Trump will agree with Bernie on many issues, such as trade, and use the Bern's words to hit Hillary hard. Bernie won't see it coming and basically allow more Hillary bashing. Trump knows Bernie won't be the nominee and is only using him.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)It would really backfire if he got used or run over.
ProgressiveEconomist
(5,818 posts)not just spewing the same lies about Hillary as Trump, but doing so from the same stage, as orchestrated by Team Trump?
Such a sore loser that he joins the General Election campaign of the other side?
IMO Bernie has joined in infamy Tom Cotton, who with 46 other Senate Rs sent a letter to the Iranian Parliament, trying to undermine US nuclear nonproliferation policy. Bernie may be so miffed at DWS and the DNC that he feels compelled to usurp their authority NOW, and not wait until July, consequences be damned. This egotistical opportunistic demagogue has just crossed an important red line from which he cannot return. Apparently, he cannot think even two steps ahead, let alone play the three-dimensional chess of a President Obama or a Hillary Rodham Clinton.
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)peace13
(11,076 posts)She refused to debate. She folded. Only children think that if they quit no one else will play. Hill needs to take some responsibility here!
yodermon
(6,143 posts)2) 3 dimensional chess like setting up an unencrypted email server in your basement in order to keep your emails off-book and hidden only to see them exposed by fucking GUCCIFER and having them made into a public spectacle anyway?
Hell my 3 year old would beat her at Go Fish.
ProgressiveEconomist
(5,818 posts)and your (1) is nonsense, IMO. During his whole "campaign", Bernie's main value has been as a vehicle for those who want to express Hillary-hate. Sanders is and has been mainly a cipher, a stand-in representing those against the Democratic Party "establishment", and those who can't wait until November to vote against HRC.
Trump and Sanders now are telling exactly the same lies about Hillary, echoing each other daily. Sanders apparently has defected to the Republican Party.
corkhead
(6,119 posts)Don't bother answering that. it was rhetorical.
ProgressiveEconomist
(5,818 posts)R delegates needed to clinch the nomination this week, though he's been the presumptive R nominee for, what, a month now?
See http://politico.com/2016-election/results/delegate-count-tracker
Cruz could at least count, and conceded, unlike Bernie. Bernie still needs 844 of 921 remaining delegates to reach 2,383, while Hillary needs just 78. With proportional delegate allocations of a minimum of 15 percent, Hillary has been a shoo-in for months.
Ned_Devine
(3,146 posts)And her losses have all seemed to come in succession at a point where, if she were really the dominant presumptive nominee, she would just keep on winning without contest like Trump did. Instead, Bernie is winning with a lot of dominant numbers in states that democrats should and do win the GE. See the difference? Hillary has not been a shoo in for months. In fact, she has gotten weaker the more people get to know her.
mikehiggins
(5,614 posts)Hard to believe but you did point out it was your opinion. Well, everybody has one.
ProgressiveEconomist
(5,818 posts)of what I said. pdsimdars provided it in post#29 below: your guy has "jumped the shark"!
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Let 'em!
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)ProgressiveEconomist
(5,818 posts)JudyM
(29,265 posts)BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)asjr
(10,479 posts)carnival for a long time and we do not need side shows. If Bernie wants to debate the Trumpet that's fine but I just can't imagine what would be said. We have become a third world country and a laughing stock so maybe they can just utter dirty words to each other.
Response to asjr (Reply #38)
Name removed Message auto-removed
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)pinebox
(5,761 posts)Hillary supporters can't grasp that.
JudyM
(29,265 posts)asuhornets
(2,405 posts)Response to asuhornets (Reply #47)
Name removed Message auto-removed
asuhornets
(2,405 posts)He has no shame. Trump will say all these nasty things about Sanders, then tell him he should run as an Independent.
nruthie
(466 posts)ProgressiveEconomist
(5,818 posts)repertoire, and the one-liners Trump's Hollywood writers will provide, the whole thing will be a big joke at Bernie's expense, as well as Hillary's. A Trump GE campaign event, withe Senator BS as straight-man.
Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)Let's get all the second place finishers involved.
woodsprite
(11,923 posts)BUT, I hope whomever the moderator(s) are, that they have a kill switch on Trump's mic. Unless they do something like that, I can't see Trump letting Bernie or anybody getting a word in edgewise.
I just thought of something -- whenever there is a debate, they should make the politicians stand in individual"sound proof booths". Then they can continue to bloviate as much as they want on their question, but their mic cuts off after the alotted time so the audience can hear the next person.
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)peace13
(11,076 posts)This will be good practice.
Tarc
(10,476 posts)There's a line between staying in a race even though it is no longer competitive and actually undercutting the party you were allegedly seeking the nomination of. This is crossing that.
ProgressiveEconomist
(5,818 posts)the Trump General Election campaign against HRC: "Hillary-haters of the world, unite!"
crystal dawn
(85 posts)Apparently, Trump's campaign never asked Bernie to debate, it was just Trump answering Kimmel if he would consider doing it, to which he said yes,
and the sad little man Bernie jumped on it and agreed to debate Trump via fucking twitter. Not fit to lead!
ProgressiveEconomist
(5,818 posts)and Trump would not ACCEPT him?
Egotistical opportunist Bernie has just demonstrated exactly how pitifully irrelevant he has become.
Nonhlanhla
(2,074 posts)is if Bernie goes there as a Hillary surrogate, and since he's constantly attacking her, that does not seem likely. She will be the nominee, not Bernie. There is no reason anymore for anyone (whether Hillary or Trumo) to debate Bernie, just as there is no reason to debate Ted Cruz.
B Calm
(28,762 posts)lunamagica
(9,967 posts)Even her "Bad Days" are better than Sanders "Good Days"
SDJay
(1,089 posts)that supporters of HRC would be good with this. Bernie will hand Drumpf his orange, vacuous ass on national TV and bloody him good heading into the GE for HRC. He'll hand her a dumbass who's been pummeled publicly on a platter. Not to mention, HRC came off as a combo of arrogant/cowardly/distrustful when she broke her word on debating SBS in California. That will largely be forgotten when this debate happens.
Drumpf will go after HRC in this debate and SBS will defend her and kick Drumpf in the neck 876 times. I would think that would be good news to HRC supporters, which I will be if/when she's the nominee.
I'm surprised to see the opposite. That's disappointing. At the end of the day/primary, we're all on the same team. This is a good thing for the folks who don't want an insane idiot in the WH.
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)Enough is enough.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)Here it is and now they're complaining that he is.
This is the debate that the people want to see. I doubt that the name Clinton gets mentioned by Sanders at all.
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)Republican in the deepest sense.
brooklynite
(94,703 posts)Donald Trump was only kidding about debating Bernie Sanders, sources told CBS News. The GOP presidential candidate was asked by Jimmy Kimmel if he would consider a debate with the Vermont socialist. If he paid a sum toward charity, I would love to do that, Trump said, adding the event would have such high ratings. Sanders responded quickly in a late-night tweet: Game on. I look forward to debating Donald Trump in California before the June 7 primary. Turns out, it was all a joke.
DebDoo
(319 posts)Election. I bet Bernie does extremely well against Trump and then Hillary decides she wants one too and schedules it for after Bernie's. In the end Bernie will do the damage to Trump and in typical HRC style she'll sweep in and take the credit for the damage.
fleabiscuit
(4,542 posts)It's a lose/lose situation.
xloadiex
(628 posts)Because it isn't a DNC "sanctioned" debate?
Though it might not make a difference since it looks like Drumpf may be backing out now.
democrattotheend
(11,605 posts)This is the same debate that she declined to be a part of, right? Presumably she could decide to be part of it after all.
I think either by law or just as a matter of policy, networks usually invite all candidates of both major parties to debates, especially once one side has a nominee, so they can't be accused of giving more air time to one side. In 2004, I remember that at the beginning of several Democratic debates, the moderator made a point of telling us that they had also invited George W. Bush, but that he had declined.