2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumA Split Over Israel Threatens the Democrats’ Hopes for Unity
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/26/us/politics/bernie-sanders-israel-democratic-convention.html?_r=0Two of the senators appointees to the partys platform drafting committee, Cornel West and James Zogby, on Wednesday denounced Israels occupation of the West Bank and Gaza and said they believed that rank-and-file Democrats no longer hewed to the partys staunch support of the Israeli government. They said they would try to get their views incorporated into the platform, the partys statement of core beliefs, at the Democratic National Convention in Philadelphia in July.
thanks Bernie, for trying to split the party on an issue which has overall Dems (since moderates/conservative Dems still count and vote) have a consensus view:
not to mention the country and electorate as a whole!
Some wanted this fight. I hope they reap what they sow.
fun n serious
(4,451 posts)cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)Spraying bullets in every direction hoping to hit something, anything. It's like you're stars in a cops & robbers movie directed by someone who's never even heard a gun fire, much less held one.
ericson00
(2,707 posts)about the people Sanders put on the committee?
You can't just alienate a majority or plurality (Gallup vs. Pew, respectively) of overall Democrats without resistance. Nor can do alienate the most loyal voting bloc to the party (Jews have been voting Dem since Coolidge) or the most financial generous without a big time fight.
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)Now I can't even see the goalpost any longer because you've gone and changed the subject. It's like you don't even remember which bad guy you're shooting at so you shoot at them all and hope to hit at least one.
You've built a goalpost engine with about 500 cubic inches, aspirated by twin intercooled turbos, and that fucker's fast.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Be nice if we could help both sides come together for a peaceful solution, get Hamas out of the picture, and have some peace talks. Anybody not down with a equitable and just solution will be outvoted. Cannot have any demagogues making the decisions during the convention, attention seekers will be outvoted. So, Cornel will not be in control of anything, he will have to abide by th rules. I wish he was not on the committee, even though I support Palestine. His way of trying to ge progress seems a bit too much about getting attention for himself, punishing Israel, and being a demagogue. That is not helpful in anyway to getting stateship for Palestine. Most of the party does not see it the same as he and I do, so there cannot be ultimatums and lines drawn in the sand. Gotta work together, not tear the entire party down and burn whats left.
ericson00
(2,707 posts)what's problematic is the derangement of the far-left, to the point that of all foreign policy issues, only Israel/Palestine has its own board here (no Tibet, Western Sahara, South Sudan, etc.), "Israel" has more tags on Daily Kos than the tags "Trump" and "Bush" combined (thats aggregate 2003-now), only Israel is singled out for BDS among nations of the world in both the US and abroad. This comes from a far-left that is normally not seen in America and was mostly confined to Europe until mid last decade.
The hatred of Israel makes no sense; ILGA, the International Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Trans and Intersex Association has a map of LGBT rights across the world, and in the ME, only Israel has protections and recognizes same-sex marriages at all; of all the countries in the Middle East (excl North Africa), Israel is the only one Freedom House's Freedom in the World ranks free. Aren't "progressives" supposed to like open, liberal-democratic societies with civil liberties, sexual liberties, and minority rights (Israeli Arabs-not Palestinians who see themselves as part of their own country, not Israel, sit in the same parliamentary chamber, go to the same schools, use the same bathrooms/facilities, all antithetical to "apartheid" . Its both scapegoating for all the war in the world by the simplistic and wrong idea that Islamic terrorism would not exist but for Israel, as if Islamic terrorists have no responsibility of their own, or their rationale would be acceptable (if that indeed were their rationale, which is not; restoration of a world power Caliphate like the Ottomans is)
West/Zogby in the platform is legitimizing anti-Semitism; both support BDS, and that has no place in the Democratic Party or American political life, ever.
I think the ideological purity leads us to a place where compromise is a dirty word and negotiation is like giving in. Rather than try to get the best deal we can at the moment, many seem more interested in all or nothing. Not helpful. Starting to think that maybe they are not actually trying to help, don't really care, and are just using it as a prop or catchline, like Free Darfur. There always has to be a bad guy and a good guy, can't just be two sides that need to negotiate a solution.
A nation being punished usually doesn't give in, they fight back, goes both ways. Can't negotiate with Hamas if they are taking credit for Cafe attacks and things of that nature. Can't get Israel to give right now with Netanyahu in control, and the attacks going on, it is just too hard to come in from the outside and think we know how to fix it. I think we are kinda clueless on Israel and Palestine in America. I stopped even discussing it because I am just as clueless as everybody else.
I think I prefer people who are moderate from each side to negotiate a plan, not the loudest ones who have the harshest positions. Can't work.
I would love to see both Israel and Palestine working together and both side have freedom like we have, less oppression, less fighting and fear. I have no idea why anyone would think that all the terrorism is Israel's fault, makes no sense. I see more stupid conspiracy theories about everybody these days than ever before. This was the ugliest primary in my life, changed me to be way more open to reason and compromise, because of the rigidity of the far left.
fancypants75
(54 posts)all they know is the narrative the media has been pounding into their heads for decades.
ThePhilosopher04
(1,732 posts)If you ask them to rank the top 10 issues of importance today, it wouldn't make the top 10.
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)from Hillary. She will not want to lose support to Trump over this.
ericson00
(2,707 posts)Israel/Palestinians used to be a rare unifying issue in our country until the extreme-left and the ivory tower lib arts professors (who literally get paid to have opinions) needed an easy scapegoat/explanation for Islamist terrorism. I do hope to see something like what you describe, tho I'd rather see it now, and if there are actually people who will stay home over it, we don't need 'em. But on this issue, the law will be laid down.
And the GOP already has their knives out over this;
http://www.breitbart.com/jerusalem/2016/05/24/sanders-picks-two-bds-supporters-for-dnc-platform-committee
http://spectator.org/bernie-sanders-just-nominated-man-democratic-platform-committee-who-accused-israel-of-committing-holocaust/
http://www.weeklystandard.com/dnc-appoints-long-time-israel-critic-to-draft-platform/article/2002526
Vote2016
(1,198 posts)grossproffit
(5,591 posts)grossproffit
(5,591 posts)ericson00
(2,707 posts)mainstream Democrats, Jew or Gentile. Here's a good take
http://forward.com/news/national/341332/will-bernie-sanders-ignite-israel-feud-at-democratic-convention/#article-comments
Wexler went on to argue that Sanders comments, which centered on a claim that Israel used excessive force against Palestinians, have given credence to some of the most anti-Israel voices in the world.
More pro-Israel Jewish Dems need to start attacking Sanders. Hillary should've done this a while ago, since Bernie hides behind being Jewish even tho his positions don't reflect Jewish Democrats' majority views.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)I'm not rich.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)Fuck the party. It's nearly dead anyway.