America is a centrist, capitalist country. We are not and will never be socialist.

[ericson00]

Deal with it. There is a rich and poor. There is a middle class. There is a right, left, and center. America is about inducing upward movement towards equality, not forcing downwards "equality" by taxing the rich until they're poor, at 80%. America is an exceptional nation that will lead the world and use our military if necessary to do so.

I know some Berners don't like this. But if you want the economy to take a hit with President Trump, keep opposing Hillary. If you don't, Be With Her.

There will be no Velikaya Oktyabrskaya Sotsialisticheskaya Revolyutsiya. There will be no "hasta la victoria, siempre" with the face of a mass murder to boot alongside it. And nor should there be either, ever.

[One Black Sheep]

1. Ugh

[GreatGazoo]

14. "Inaccurate Psychic Authoritarians for Hillary"

[JRLeft]

19. ^ This

I told you guys a lot of Hillary supporters are former moderate republicans. Income inequality gap must widen. When it expands under her, they will blame the GOP.

[Yurovsky]

48. I call them the 'I've got mine, fuck everybody else' wing of the party...

The only things they MIGHT share with other Democrats are social issues like reproductive rights or gender equity. Even LGBT rights are not a given, just take a look at Hillary's lack of courage on that issue, only coming out in support of gay marriage after the majority of Americans had.

Economic justice MUST be a fundamental cornerstone of Democratic values, policies, and priorities, or we might as well just close up shop.

[QC]

139. I call them "Misplaced Republicans."

I think one of the worst things about the GOP's descent into madness is that it has sent so many relatively sane but conservative refugees rushing into the Democratic Party.

Rather than take their own party back from the crazies, they are trying to turn our party into GOP II.

They are the cuckoo in the nest.

[Yurovsky]

162. That would explain the shift in voter registrations & party identification

granted, both parties have lost ground to independents, but the GOP has been bleeding out relative to the scrapes & cuts the Democratic Party has suffered. What is left of the GOP is full on batshit crazy, and we've seen an influx of Wall Street/corporate-friendly types who may not have been comfortable with the snake-handling bible thumpers at the GOP helm.

[CobaltBlue]

216. QC—They already have.

That is a part of the reason why neoliberalism has been destructive to both the Democratic Party and the nation.

The unemployment percentage is really good—but the neoliberal Democrats are wondering why there are people who feel things haven’t improved for their economic position.

[vintx]

244. +1

[villager]

103. +5 nt.

[QC]

135. !

[Attorney in Texas]

215. this ^ + 100

[Exilednight]

2. Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Ronald Reagan, to name a few have said the same thing.

You're known by those you quote.

[leftynyc]

10. Do you even see the irony

in that statement given the right wing sources that are continually posted Bernie supporters to attack Hillary? Even throwing their arms around the repulsive judicial watch?

[Exilednight]

12. I see irony in the fact that a person named lefty is defending right wing talking points

[tenderfoot]

93. Been noticing that myself.

all over the site.

[QC]

121. You're not the first to catch that irony.

Whenever I see someone with a handle like ViolentMaoistRevolutionary or whatever, I assume I'm looking at a conservative infiltrator who's trying way too hard.

[leftynyc]

192. Yeah, you caught me

I've been posting here for 12 years just laying wait to fool everyone into thinking a pro choice, pro gay rights, pro union, pro human rights woman who lives in NY is actually a right winger. The idiocy I'm seeing here is very amusing.

[leftynyc]

175. Where EXACTLY am

I defending right wing talking points? Got a link or just a blind lashing out because your candidate is losing?

[trudyco]

245. Yes! It's the right wing mindset. Totally wrong, too.

[Phlem]

164. Your post is the fucking irony.

FFS.

Republican talking points? That's how you all get away from discussing facts, call them republican talking points and not refute them because, you know, Republican talking points?

[leftynyc]

178. What on earth are

you babbling about? I decry right wing links whenever ANYBODY posts them. Go ahead and find a link to a post of mine that proves otherwise. I'll wait.

[Phlem]

195. Sure you do.

I know exactly what I'm talking about and so do you.

I'm not the babbling mouseketeer supporting a corporate toady.

[leftynyc]

196. So you quite simply lied

Better to just admit these things and maintain a modicum of dignity.

[Phlem]

197. Really?

Pray tell, what did I lie about?

And while we're on the subject, what about these lies.


I was around during her first presidential run. I even have facts with links you can feel free to refute, but you won't because they're just Republican talking points.

Way to get around the "facts".

Below is why I
VOTED
for Bernie.

Well there's the lying:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x109944

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2008/mar/25/hillary-clinton/video-shows-tarmac-welcome-no-snipers/

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/lists/people/fact-checking-2016-democratic-presidential-candida/

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1017&pid=355426

There her IRAQ war vote:

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/article/2015/sep/02/11-examples-hillary-clinton-and-bernie-sanders-hol/

There's the fact that she's moved right:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tony-brasunas/there-is-a-moderate-republican-in-this-race_b_9704194.html

How about the Corporate friendly nominee's donors.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/jul/07/facebook-posts/meme-says-hillary-clintons-top-donors-are-banks-an/

Here's one fact about Bernie:

http://www.politifact.com/california/article/2016/apr/19/bernie-sanders-has-never-felt-burn-politifacts-pan/

There's a whole lot more where that came from, but I'm done doing your homework for you.

Refute it.

[Phlem]

198. Oh the fucking crickets yet again.

[arcane1]

187. You'll NEVER see Hillary "throwing arms" around rightwingers!

[leftynyc]

188. Awww

They played nice at a FUNERAL. BURN HER!!!

[rockfordfile]

177. yeah. why is this poster on a democratic website?

[treestar]

185. Said what? That Americans don't want civil insurrection and revolution?

They are also wanting overthrow of the system - they hate it as it is - it allows for change, positive change for equality for people they don't want being considered equal.

[Kip Humphrey]

3. Hillary represents what we have, Corporate Socialism. Bernie represents Democratic Socialism.

Deal with it.

[trudyco]

247. I like that. Corporate Socialism ... corporate tax breaks and subsidies and give aways.

Yep. You nailed it. Scarier in that more and more they aren't even American.
Unpatriotic Corporate Socialism.

[Thinkingabout]

4. I am a very proud centrist, capitalist loving American, have been all of

My life and will continue. No oligarchy from either extreme for me.

[clarice]

57. Smartest thing I've heard all day.nt

[Armstead]

65. You already have an oligarchy...

[cali]

76. You don't even know what the word oligarchy means

It can only come from.the 1%

[Scootaloo]

105. The list of words that Clinton supporters don't know the meaning of but use anyway is pretty big

[lumberjack_jeff]

111. Exactly.

"Liberal socialist oligarchy" is an oxymoron and exhibit #1 of a failed IQ test.

[libdem4life]

136. Do you get Social Security? I wish I had kept the list of the dozens of

socialist programs we rely on. We are indeed already a Social (ist) Democracy. Otherwise we'd be calling our neighbors or church folks before pulling out our debit cards so the fireman will turn on the water to save the burning house.

Oh, and the burglar coming in the window...the flashlight will be to get said debit card ready for the police.

Such silliness. Hopefully someone else kept that graphic. If not, intelligent people really can look at our long-standing social fabric and find the many places we are "socialist". Even insurance is socialist...socialist capitalism. Otherwise...well, I'm sure you get the drift.

[RichVRichV]

232. How have you managed 25k posts on this site and not even know what oligarchy means?

[Thinkingabout]

233. I do, do you?

[Fast Walker 52]

5. WTF??? America IS socialist now, at least the better parts of it.

What a stupid, pathetic post to put here.

[Fast Walker 52]

6. this is the BS sentiment that really turns me off from Hillary

"America is an exceptional nation that will lead the world and use our military if necessary to do so."

[DLevine]

7. And there you go, folks. nt

[Fumesucker]

8. Except social mobility in the USA is less than most European countries

http://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21595437-america-no-less-socially-mobile-it-was-generation-ago-mobility-measured

The study confirms previous findings that America’s social mobility is low compared with many European countries. (In Denmark, a poor child has twice as much chance of making it to the top quintile as in America.)

[wilt the stilt]

9. what the bern's don't get

is the reason people come to America is for a better life. AKA make more money. That is probably the most binding thought in this country. Should we have a better health care of course and it probably some form of single payer though after pricing out Medicare( turning 65) that certainly is not it. I figured under the current medicare a family of four who probably be in the $1400 per month with out prescription coverage.

Bernie cries for $15 minimum wage and fixing the infrastructure all great things but he never deals with the underlying problem. Rebuilding manufacturing.

[HooptieWagon]

16. Medicare is 65+....

What family of 4 is 65 and over? Doesn't appear you have a clue what you're talking about.

[wilt the stilt]

17. whenever you hear "Medicare for all"

it sounds good until you actually go in and understand how it works. It is fine for one not so hot for four since each person is a single instance. My portion to the government will be $243 with no supplemental.

[Baobab]

31. It has to be free to the end user or its prohibited nd we have to privatize.

Single payer has to be free because otherwise you need tiers for those who cant pay.

Its also much cheaper, which is important, its what they hate. Also the government already pay2 2/3 of every healthcare dollar. So we are already paying enough for it.

Also jobs are going away fast so the current system wont work. Neither will sending sick people elsewhere help- globalizing it won't help, just crapify everything.

The system is literally doubled in cost by having the insurnce layer, which adds no value. Deal with it.

[clarice]

202. Whenever I hear "Medicare for all" . My first thought is whose going to pay for it?nt

[Karma13612]

235. Pay roll tax, and your premiums and deductibles

Disappear.

Cradle to grave.

[Recursion]

22. But if there were "Medicare For All" a family of four would have Medicare

The problem he's pointing out is that that would be about $700 per month per adult for coverage with a $1000 deductible and no out of pocket maximum.

[Baobab]

33. There can be no "deductible" with single payer. It has to be free. You dont have tiers in single pay

The average cost of insurance in the US is rising and its almost $20k per year per person.

A huge chunk of that cost is the cost doctors and hospital staff spend arguing with insurers. Doctors in Europe maybe have one part time accountant. Here they might have three or four full time accounting staff.

The cost of all that makes healthcare much much more expensive. Bringing in lots of cheap nurses and doctors from India, Bangladesh, Africa, - (Hillary's plan, she has similar plan for education, throwing our teachers under the bus) will solve nothing if the underlying system isn't changed.


Plus, its irreversible, wages will never rise back up.

[Recursion]

37. Well, Medicare certainly has a deductible. A pretty high one.

Doctors in Europe maybe have one part time accountant. Here they might have three or four full time accounting staff.

The bigger issue is that doctors in Europe make half of what they make in the US, and we don't have the political will to tell US doctors to take a paycut.

At any rate, Medicare certainly has a deductible (a grand or so), so if the battle cry is "Medicare For All" it's hard to fault people for assuming everybody would have a deductible.

[Baobab]

51. The amount they make has nothing to do with complexity. You're evading my question. Also, you know

about GATS Article I:3 (b) and (c) which is one of the reasons it has to be free, to escape the privatization monster.

The point I am getting at is that a single payer system because its the only game in town has to be free, it cannot have "tiers" - for example the deliberate attenuation of care given to everybody who is not the richest in the US. Everybody else in the US gets crappy care. And by the way, Americans don't use more care we use less care. These threads attract sock puppets like flies and they repeat the same BS over and over.

Another thing about single payer is that since people get care early, since its free, they catch illnesses earlier. Which means treating them is less expensive, dramatically less expensive.

[Baobab]

54. Hillary's solution, globalization will give them a big pay cut. The foreign nurses, teachers, etc

will make a lot less. Also, they will ship poorer sick people elsewhere for care. Or use virtual reality.

Wages will fall a lot. Its unavoidable when you have cheap foreign competition. That's unfair and going to be nasty because the people who will get the wage cuts or lose their jobs are not the people who are wasting money.

Its totally the wrong approach.

Look at it this way, jobs are going away for good. The last thing we need is a tiered system because the poor are going to be very very very poor and the rich are going to be very very rich. A system like that will lead, frankly to genocide.

[Thirties Child]

109. You talk about doctor's taking a pay cut

A pay cut might improve medical care. In 1959-60 we had neighbors from South Africa, both physicians, in New Orleans to study tropical medicine. They told us that with single payer (socialized medicine as it was called then) medical care improves. One reason is that those who are attracted to medicine choose the profession because they want to heal, not because they expect to make lots of money.

[wilt the stilt]

39. I'm for some form of universal health

I'm not sure how to get there. I have paid insurance out of my pocket for multiple years. know the insurance market better than most. I am turning 65 and when i saw how much medicare actually costs I was pretty surprised.i use the "family of four" as a typical example. The cost in our present medicare for a family of four is almost $1600 with no prescription coverage. there must be a better way.

[wilt the stilt]

55. "medicare for all" is a rallying cry

so if you apply today's medicare to "all then everyone is in and with today's rules it is not so hot.

[JRLeft]

21. But upwards mobility is dead in this country.

[raging moderate]

25. Except Fumesucker is right: this "better life" is being eroded.

Capitalism is great, as long as it has some restrictions. The laborer is worthy of his hire, and where your treasure is, there will your heart be. The wealth of this country is being sucked upward so fast that there is not enough left at the lower levels. I am not complaining for myself. I had it rough as a kid, but I made it, thanks to sources that are being reduced as much as possible by the oligarchs. I am complaining on behalf of the children I worked with whose families could not provide properly for them, and for their children and grandchildren who seem destined to suffer even more.

The people who are running the country believe that rich people are best managed by fantastic over-reinforcement, but poor people are best managed by fantastic over-punishment. This snobbish assumption is visible throughout the social fabric, and it is wrong. My profession involved precise doses of reinforcement, so I know what that is better than most.

I worked with some children whose parents both worked split shifts at different times, just to keep a roof overhead and food on the table. These kids were taken by one parent to a relative's house and put to bed there, then awakened in the middle of the night and taken home by the other parent to be put to bed there for a few hours before being awakened at 6 to get ready for the school bus. I apologized to them on behalf of the people of the United States of America.

The world depicted on the TV series Little House on the Prairie never really existed; that is a fantasy. And the possibility of working out your own living off the land has been put out of reach for most people. The gap between incomes of rich people and poor people is too wide. When I was a girl, some textbooks mentioned such a gap as one of the factors that led to the French Revolution. Those of us who advocate for letting the poor people keep more of what they are producing are working to PREVENT violent revolution, not to foster it.

Bernie Sanders supporters actually want a more moderate country, in which rich people are not cossetted and worshipped. Where do you think Donald Trump came from? His candidacy is the inevitable result of giving too much unearned luxury to a few and inflicting too much unearned drudgery on many. This is not very different from what the other wing of the party USED to SAY they believed. I have worked for Democrats for several decades, when my drudgery allowed it. Can you hear me now?

[Armstead]

67. Nail on head - "Sanders supporters actually want a more moderate country"

That fundamental truth has been lost in the nonsense such as the OP

[7wo7rees]

96. "Can you hear me now?" Absolutely!

Why is there such a huge disconnect?

Globalization is not for the "working class".

"Working off the land", out of reach for most people. "Little House on the Prairie" never existed. Well yes, out of reach for most, sadly. Never existed, I question, I lived it, my grandparents lived it in the PanHandle of Texas.

[lumberjack_jeff]

112. To have it as good as they do in Canada, a family would have to make $25,000 per year more.

Just due to government intervention on behalf of the medical industry.

[polly7]

119. With all due respect, I don't understand this statement. nt.

[lumberjack_jeff]

120. Point: People come here for more money.

Counterpoint: They'd have to come here for a metric shitload more money to achieve the same quality of life.

Medical care in the US costs the average family $25,000.

[polly7]

124. Thanks. Sorry, I didn't read what you were responding to. nt.

[pangaia]

255. A better life = MAKE MORE MONEY? Maybe that is one opinion.

Rather simplistic, in my view.
...............................................

I pay the now standard $104/ month for basic Medicare...
...plus a supplemental or "Advantage" plan..
Without PART D (prescription coverage. ) premiums varied between ZERO! and $35/mo.
Now WITH Part D $95/MO

TOTAL now for me is $200/mo = $2400/year,,
I am with a very good (if that is not an oxymoron) not-for-profit Insurance company.

I do not know where your $1400/month comes from for a family of 4.

[Broward]

11. America is no longer a place for a New Deal Dem

according to a right-wing troll. Got it.

[highprincipleswork]

13. Perhaps you've been listening to too much propaganda for too long.

[RKP5637]

29. K&R!!! n/t

[mac56]

15. I'm sure your benefactors

are paying you well for this post. Yay capitalism!

[Yurovsky]

50. I think they pay by the word...

they certainly aren't paying for "minds changed" or "opinions altered".

Screw the corporatists. I'm sure the folks who think it (the 1%-centric economy) is no big deal will change their tune when they eventually get laid off.

[cherokeeprogressive]

18. So we should learn our places and settle. Got it.

[rock]

20. I would say that from the empty rhetoric

that you seem to have stirred up, you have a pretty good point. You are of course right in that this is a capitalistic culture and not socialistic.

[mindem]

23. What a crock of shit

The idea that your precious Hillary is even remotely familiar with what is going on with average folks is ridiculous. She flaps around like a flag in the wind - Hillary is about Hillary and that's it.

[redstateblues]

101. Bernie has been a politician pulling down six figures for 25 years

With cushy free benefits. You act like he actually has some connection to average folks. He's a very slick politician telling people what they want to hear with absolutely no plan to actually accomplish anything. Revolution? What a joke

[cali]

117. He absolutely does. Ask the farmers, loggers and blue collar workers here

in.Vermont's Northeast Kingdom.

You are clueless. There's a reason Vermonters support and approve of Bernie. One reason is how effective he's been. Btw, the state where hilly is least liked is Vermont. That was true before Bernie ran for president. And it's not because we're sexist or racist. Obama won here by greater margins than in any other state except for Hawaii. Hilly lost here by 70 points.

[phleshdef]

137. By your logic, no nationally elected figure is capable of having a connection to average folks.

Because they ALL get paid 6 figures.

Such bullshit.

[seekthetruth]

219. .....and the Clintons were flat broke after Bill's regime ended......

[YOHABLO]

231. It's not about how much they make, but how they're making it.

Yeah, Sanders gets a pay check .. move on.

[TheKentuckian]

24. Another example that all the talk of common goals and being on the same side is

phony as a three dollar bill.

These folks are corporate loving, intervention mongering liars and flimflam artists.

All they are is the secular wing of the TeaPubliKLAN party aka the more demographically inclusive money party.

[vintx]

246. Sure seems that way

[HumanityExperiment]

26. proof in the supporters and their posts...

HRC is republican light, this supporter and corresponding post here is proof of point

[AZ Progressive]

157. Malcolm X's words still ring true today...

[Baobab]

27. I have good reason to think Hillary's being put in there to destroy the middle class-and before

you freak out, consider that the process that's going on (economic integration of the developing world at the US working peoples expense) is a vast redistribution of wealth away from the middle class and has been hidden from the country in order to make corporations richer, not to effectuate any greater good.

Wages should go up not down. Bernie has the right idea, Hillary is playing a trick on the country.

Read up on labour mobility under investment agrmts. Its going to be a huge change people don't expect that's going to force wages way down and shovel away jobs to firms in developing nations.

[vintx]

248. Best post I've seen all day. nt

[morningfog]

28. And with this latest screed, you finally go ignore.

[RKP5637]

30. What a bizarre post! n/t

[sinkingfeeling]

32. Do tell, what makes America an exceptional country?

Our willingness to spend 57% of our budget on murder via military interventions?

[bvf]

81. Don't we all enjoy ignorant jingoism, though?

[pinskinny]

34. Sound more like republican values then democrat.

[B Calm]

259. I think the OP has been listening to Rush Limbaugh way too much.

[phleshdef]

35. We are a socialist capitalist hybrid and you are a right winger

[VulgarPoet]

36. I want you to apologize to every single electron you've inconvenienced with this dung heap of a post

"And you, Sorority Girl, just in case you accidentally wander into a voting booth one day, there’s some things you should know. One of them is there’s absolutely no evidence to support the statement that we’re the greatest country in the world. We’re seventh in literacy. Twenty-seventh in math. Twenty-second in science. Forty-ninth in life expectancy. A hundred and seventy-eighth in infant mortality. Third in median household income. Number four in labor force and number four in exports. We lead the world in only three categories: Number of incarcerated citizens per capita, number of adults who believe angels are real, and defense spending, where we spend more than the next twenty-six countries combined, twenty-five of whom are allies.

Now none of this is the fault of a twenty-year-old college student, but you nonetheless are without a doubt a member of the worst, period, generation, period, ever, period. So when you ask what makes us the greatest country in the world, I dunno what the fuck you’re talkin’ about. Yosemite?" -- The Newsroom

[kcr]

38. What utter nonsense

One doesn't even have to be a Berner to disagree with it. You don't sound like a centrist. You sound like a straight up right wing Republican with this drivel.

[CrispyQ]

40. You should watch "Where to Invade Next" by Michael Moore. -nt

[demmiblue]

41. I am constantly amazed by the conservative talking points I see on DU. n/t

[bkkyosemite]

44. It's unbelievable! They want Hillary and Hillary does not want the middle class to survive.

[bkkyosemite]

42. Some of these posts are very republican and very scary...omg....

[LWolf]

43. It's okay to be a Republican as long as you

have that "D" on your voter registration.

[Arugula Latte]

144. It's the new Orwellian DU.

[TransitJohn]

45. Wow.

With disgusting enabling like this, nothing will change. You are in the wrong party, my friend.

[Octafish]

46. Oh, so THAT's why the taxpayers are always bailing out the Banksters!

It's like they own Washington, see?



Yeah, Wall Street-on-the-Potomac, see.

For instance, in the the late 80s:

Know your BFEE: They Looted Your Nation’s S&Ls for Power and Profit

Then, after the Bankstershitstorm in September 21, 2008, :

Know your BFEE: Phil Gramm, the Meyer Lansky of the War Party, Set-Up the Biggest Bank Heist Ever.

What's weird is how, rather than the jail cell he so richly deserved, Phil Gramm ended up as Vice Chairman of UBS -- the Swiss Bank that received about $59 Billion with a Billion in TARP funds -- from where Gramm hired Bill Clinton, who signed into law the repeal of Glass Steagall. Since then, they've also brought in George W Bush to specialize in Wealth Management:

http://financialservicesinc.ubs.com/revitalizingamerica/SenatorPhilGramm.html

PS: Do you know what the only business named in the Constitution is, ericson00?

[Rex]

129. That one won't be here after the admins effect new rules.

Notice the huge transparency page, it goes along with the agenda. I cannot wait to see them banned from DU, their divisive voice year after year has cost this site a lot of people leaving.

[CanadaexPat]

47. Canada is a centrist, capitalist country

and has healthcare for all, one-year paid maternity leave, and in Ontario is experimenting with basic income support and starting free college. So...

[Eric J in MN]

53. +1 (NT)

NT

[katsy]

169. ^^^This

[forjusticethunders]

49. There is nothing about America or any other nation that inherently precludes socialism.

Also Hillary isn't as "centrist" as you (or ironically the Bernie or Busters you castigate here) think, largely because the coalition that has powered her to victory is considerably more marginalized and thus considerably more open to socialism and other radical solutions than you might think.

Not trying to be combative here, and I understand why you might feel this way but I don't agree with your analysis.

[Eric J in MN]

52. In the 1930s, the New Deal

...was denounced as socialist.

And there was truth to that, since ideas in the New Deal were in the Socialist Party platform.

[FourScore]

56. My 8th grader and the rest of his social studies class have a better understanding of these terms.

But you keep talking those republican talking points!!! It makes you seem real "centrist".

[obamanut2012]

58. To repeat: I am a long-time Hillary supporter -- stop the red baiting

[clarice]

59. For those attacking ericson00...

What happened to the Liberal idea of free thought and expression?

[VulgarPoet]

63. He more than has the right to express what he likes.

But at the same time, his right to expression ends at the tip of my nose. If I find something he's said to be stupid, I will exercise my right to free thought and expression, and tell him he is a moron. There is no evidence to support the assertion that we are an "exceptional" country. None. He deserves the lambasting he's getting.

[clarice]

66. No he doesn't...and we ARE an exceptional Country....

That's why the flow of immigrants seems to run in one direction.

[VulgarPoet]

70. Oh please, I guarantee you if you lived in the systemic corruption in Mexico's government

You'd come running here too. How about some actual examples? You tell me, what makes us exceptional? We're 26th for child well-being. 28th for child poverty rates. 29th for teen pregnancy. 3rd for homicide. 34th on life expectancy, 41st on infant mortality. Quality of math and science? 47th. You tell me. What makes us so fucking exceptional? What makes us the arbiters of the entire goddamn globe? What makes you believe that we're some sort of God-given gift to the entire goddamn world? We have never in my lifetime been "an exceptional country".

So put up, or shut up-- because the only people I hear saying we're an exceptional country are Republicans.

Source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eric-zuesse/how-the-us-performs-in-re_b_3080446.html

[clarice]

73. Putting your obvious disdain for America aside...

The fact that we can even HAVE a forum like this says a lot....

BTW.... is playing the "Republican card" all YOU got? Pretty weak.

[VulgarPoet]

80. Obvious disdain? For presenting facts?

Wow, you're just as bad as he is. "The fact that we can have a forum like this"-- are you aware that we're only fourth in terms of countries with the most freedom of speech? Being beaten by Switzerland, Canada, and Ireland-- in that order. Two hundred and seven sovereign states in the world, at least a hundred fifty have the freedom to "have a forum like this". Please, educate yourself before you pull a neuron in your frontal lobe trying to mental gymnastic your way into slandering me.

[clarice]

84. I will close with this quote from Jonathon Swift...

"You cannot reason someone out of a position to which reason hasn't led them"

Have a great weekend...game, set, match goes to Clarice.

[islandmkl]

91. an observation...you apparently are keeping score for a different game

than the one you have been playing....

[clarice]

94. Please explain islandmkl.nt

[islandmkl]

100. "...game, set, match goes to Clarice."

you are possibly 1-0 if you count scoring against yourself...

[clarice]

102. I only responded in that way because the other poster was so nasty and belligerent.Peace.nt

[VulgarPoet]

125. Try to defend an indefensible standpoint and that's what you'll get

for sheer fact that I have a hard time believing someone can really tout the Republican talking points of "American Exceptionalism" when we've done nothing but fuck the world up for the past sixteen years. I hope you can have peace with yourself inside that bubble.

[clarice]

134. And I hope that you can come to...

some inner peace and relieve your "AMERICA phobias"

[VulgarPoet]

138. "American-phobic" for pointing out what the fuck is wrong with our nation.

You're just-- a real piece of work, aren't you? Gimme a call when the propaganda wears off.

[clarice]

199. Don't hold your breath.nt

[Amaril]

211. Oh, snap!

[Karma13612]

236. Not really. But, have a great weekend anyway. Eom

[sinkingfeeling]

168. That's right no other country in the world let's citizens

complain about government online. Really? Travel the world a little and learn something.

[clarice]

200. This must be "Grumpy Friday"lol. nt

[Exilednight]

224. There are 195 countries in the world, and you're free to have this discussion without repercussions

In over 60% of countries. Reporters Without Borders ranks America 41st in freedom of speech.

Tell me how exceptional we are. If you don't have empirical evidence, then you don't have a much of an argument.

[clarice]

241. Without starting a fight...I'm curious about something.....

You almost seem PLEASED to be able to report that we are ranked 41st.,
as if we are somehow an evil Country.
What is your opinion on America in general? I swear that I'm not trying to be argumentative,
and well aware that everyone has the right to their views. Just trying to understand the mindset.

PM me if you would like.

[Exilednight]

250. I'm not pleased about it. it's a disgrace that we go around

Thumping our chest that we're better than everyone else, and yet every measurable index puts us near the middle to the lower half of the scale.

An one point we lead the world in several categories, now we lead only in a handful. We're the largest consumer of goods, we lock up more people per capita, and we spend more on defense fighting pointless wars.

Please tell me: what do we have to be proud of?

[clarice]

253. One thing for sure.......sending a LOT of money that will.....

probably never be repaid to Countries that are probably ahead of us on most lists. Just sayin'

[Exilednight]

256. yes, like Israel.

[clarice]

260. And? You don't think that it's important to have a home base in.....

that God forsaken area?

[Exilednight]

261. mistake is a poor strategic alliy. we can't

House troops there due to the Saudis.
We can't house air craft there due to Egypt.
We can't house tanks their due to Kuwait.
We can't house military hardware there due to Turkey.

We get attacked by Isis due to our alliance.
We get attacked by al queda due to our alliance.
We get attacked by any splinter group due to our alliance.
We get attacked by Israel just because they don't care we're their ally.

So why should we give them money when they can't do anything for us?

[clarice]

262. I'm not justifying it...just

sa yin' that it's money better spent than the money that we send to many other hell-holes.

[Exilednight]

263. how is it better sent and what hell holes are you speaking of?

[clarice]

264. Get a map... 10 darts...throw them randomly.....you will hit some.nt

[Exilednight]

265. that's a very flippant response.

[clarice]

266. I figured it was either that... or getting alerted on.lol

[chascarrillo]

68. So we should allow Trump supporters in here? Why?

And, I should remind you that ericson00 supports closing off the borders to Syrian refugees, just like Trump. He red-baits, just like Trump. Why shouldn't those backward views be attacked by liberals?

[clarice]

86. To quote George Orwell....

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”
― George Orwell

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

72. What are we supposed to do? Applaud the nonsense?

Or, use our free thought and expression to expose it?

[clarice]

74. No....simply be open to differing opinions. It's the Liberal way.nt

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

77. Open? Yes. Accept them? No. Comment on them? You bet.

[clarice]

79. EXACTLY !!!! I'm just opposed to the nastiness in some of the other posts.nt

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

88. Well, the OP wasn't exactly tolerant and polite.

More reminiscent of Joe McCarthy than Mohandas Gandhi.

[clarice]

90. I just re-read the OP...

and yes, perhaps he/she could have been more diplomatic.....but I don't know
if it is worthy of some of the attending vitriol.

[LanternWaste]

209. Like calling people America-phobic?

"attending vitriol..."

Like calling people America-phobic? (insert justification here to allow pretense you're not holding others to a higher standard than you hold yourself to-- as long as you believe it, it's good enough)

[clarice]

210. Fastest alert finger in the West.nt

[clarice]

242. Whichever you decide is most effective.nt

[mac56]

83. ---

[clarice]

87. Sage advice from a true mental giant.nt

[mac56]

114. Ah. When you can't dispute the statement, insult the speaker.

[clarice]

115. That wasn't an insult... I always like to hear his views on current events.nt

[lumberjack_jeff]

113. I welcome his (presumably honest) expression of free thought.

If nothing else, it proves that the subject of our complaints isn't a strawman. The Democratic party has been undermined by neoliberal corporatists.

[clarice]

116. Well said.nt

[frylock]

148. For those attacking those attacking ericson00...

What happened to the Liberal idea of free thought and expression?

[clarice]

201. Free thought and expression are one thing...common courtesy is another. What's your beef?nt

[LanternWaste]

205. Precisely how do those verbal responses prevent free thought or expression?

Precisely how do those verbal response prevent free thought or expression?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

60. Golly, that's really scary. Red Bait much?

[VulgarPoet]

64. McCarthy called... He wants his Red Scare blinders back.

[libdem4life]

141. Just an aside...is that gif from Boxer's speech?

[VulgarPoet]

142. Yep.

A conscious reminder of the oncoming fascism of the Democratic party.

[libdem4life]

145. Funny, I watched very little of it, but that really stood out...along with

her fear and trembling.

I Hate it that this will likely be her last national appearance. She was one of the good ones. Like Steinhem, she squandered her usually good judgment to fall on the sword for someone who will likely never see the White House. HRC likely called in a favor.

We are getting used to lines of armed and ready types. Ugh.

[amborin]

61. Pure HRC propaganda statement; Americans overwhelmingly want what Sanders (Dem Soc) proposes, plus

we have many aspects of socialism already: public services, etc.

Let's not forget how Main Street bailed out Wall street: socialized debt

[Armstead]

62. Here ya go -- Some movies and books I'm sure you'll love

?w=610

?w=610&h=343

[AgingAmerican]

69. There is no centrist ideology

So saying the country is 'centrist' is saying nobody believes in anything.

[Armstead]

71. So True -- Everyone views "The Center" as their own views

[bullwinkle428]

153. Exactly. So how would the OP define the "centrist" postion on abortion?

How about LGBT rights? Voting rights? I could go on and on!

[pinebox]

75. Typical status quo defense from a Hillary supporter

And now I am going to debunk you.

Why is that you say "America is a centrist, capitalist country. We are not and will never be socialist."
Are you aware what Socialist even is because I'm thinking you don't.

Socialist is the former DDR and USSR, it isn't countries like Canada, Germany, Sweden or Denmark.

We need to clear the air with that first.

Secondly, you say we'll never be socialist but in reality we already are.
What are things like social security, national highways, libraries, police and fire and public education?

Now let's look at something else. That whole "we'll never be" thing.

Are you aware that most American's agree with Bernie's policies?
http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/more-and-more-americans-agree-bernie-sanders-and-not-just-those-who-identify-left

http://reverbpress.com/politics/datalog/americans-agree-bernie-sanders/

[7wo7rees]

85. Really good post. Nice refutation to Ericson! Bookmarked

and sharing. Thank you.

[bullwinkle428]

158. This post defines why we need a "mike drop" smilie!!

[Yurovsky]

206. Yes indeed... The smack hath been laid down!

Crickets from the corporate wing of the Party...

[vintx]

249. So much win

[B Calm]

258. Great post, must read for Hillary supporters!

[merrily]

78. Untrue, which is why your beloved Hillary has had to "evolve" her centrist positions so much to run.

[Jester Messiah]

82. Red-baiting and defeatism.

I can't imagine why people would seek an alternative.

[immoderate]

89. Capitalism is unsustainable.

--imm

[cry baby]

92. We are a capitalist/socialist hybrid.

And please stop red baiting.

[cali]

97. Right wing red baiting uninformed hogwash

[ThePhilosopher04]

98. Go join the Republican party

[islandmkl]

99. i'm always amused at how many words it takes for someone to exhibit that they

don't know what the hell they are talking about...

your lack of historical knowledge seems to show that you either skipped some classes early in your education, didn't pay attention, or just bought into some rightwing fantasy about America (while thinking, somehow, that you are 'centrist')...

check out the income tax rates on the rich pre-Nixon...you know, the period after WWII with the greatest growth economically ever, a growth that benefited more Americans than ever before (yes, minorities got shorted...which doesn't change the math), with the greatest expansion of the Middle Class....

and let us all know how that Middle Class is faring now...how does the future look...?

[Orsino]

104. Well, an awful lot of money is backing your agenda..

...but socialism is already here and working every day. Were you unaware of who pays for the military, for the Docial safety net, for fire and police forces, for disaster relief, etc?

[WDIM]

106. That's a very Republican point of view.

If Hillary supporters are really this far right there may not be much hope for this country.

There are many things that are socialized in this country and rightfully so and we should expand that to health care and higher education and banking and natural resources and utilities to name a few.

In the 1950s the top tax rate was 90 percent with a Republican President. And we built the great infrastructure that is crumbling today. It is time to rebuild our infrastructure and our country and the mega wealthy who benefit the most from this infrastructure should pay for it.

[Scootaloo]

107. I'll bet you didn't intend for this post to be as funny as it is, did you?

[hollowdweller]

108. You are completely wrong.

In the 20's and 30's both communism and socialism were gaining a foothold because of inequality.

The New Deal and Unions stopped the trend.

I think that unless we either increase the social safety net or repeal Taft Hartley and give unions more power we will see a gradual move that way.

[lumberjack_jeff]

110. See? This is what is now meant by "democratic underground"

The neoliberal moles who are now validated by DLC/Third Way politicians like Clinton to poke their heads out of the dirt where they have been industriously undermining the few remaining bits of the new deal and great society.

This primary has been the most distressing time to be a democrat that I can remember.

[Rex]

126. A total eye opener that is for sure.

Oh well, the OP like so many other disruptive voices better enjoy their stay while they got it. It is interesting how all the people trying to keep us divided have a transparency page...that is overflowing with hides.

[CobaltBlue]

118. ericson00—The nation is not Washington, D.C. (Perhaps you will wake up eventually.)

[rockfordfile]

180. That person had to come from redstate

[tenderfoot]

122. And this is why America will never change for the better. Ever.

There. I finished your headline.

Now back to your copy of National Review. Or is World Net Daily more your speed?

[Rex]

123. Enjoy your stay.

[Logical]

127. FFS, "look at me"

[hamsterjill]

128. I am a proud Democrat but I'm not a Socialist.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know - every Bernie supporter who posts here will say I don't know what I'm talking about. It's their standard response to everything these days. Anyone who disagrees with what they say is just simply too stupid to understand. Well, believe me, I understand.

My issue with Bernie's platform is that he's not JUST going after the uber wealthy, but he's going after people who are middle income. He wants to take my money from me, and then give it back to me in a form that HE believes is appropriate. No, thank you.

It is hard work that has made this country great. No, that's NOT a Republican value - it's an American value. There is nothing wrong with being proud of the fact that you've worked your ass off to provide for your family and that you've made strides for doing that. That does not mean that you "have yours and to hell with everyone else". Like many of us, it means that the more we have, the more we can GIVE to causes that we believe in. Who here has the right to judge what any other does with their hard earned money?

Free tuition? I'm fine with that, but show me how it will be PAID for and show me how those who take advantage of it will give back for having received it? Military service? Community service? How many years of service for each year of free tuition? I mean, we're all about the common good, right? I applaud that. But what are these people going to do to contribute to the common good once they've received this benefit?

[katsy]

182. Healthcare should be a human right just as it

is in all modern industrialized countries. Full stop.

Single payer will work for all and everyone will chip in and it will be a savings for all of us.

Here's a heads-up about all you "hardworking" people who made this country great: AI

AI will replace most jobs in the future. So. Now what? Let the "freeloading" unemployed die off? Ovens for the newly "unemployable" so you don't pay a nickle more in taxes? What if you're replaced? Do you want us to fight for you?

You better look beyond those pennies you want to hoard to the bigger future. We either fight for our basic human right to life or we all burn together.

[hamsterjill]

222. Hoard?

Utterly pathetic. You don't know shit about what I do with my "pennies".

How much are you going to contribute to universal healthcare? Yes, I'd love for everyone to be covered, but that's not going to be reality in the wink of an eye and especially not under Bernie Sanders.

AI???? Put down your play station and join reality.

[katsy]

225. Read the science journals.

And yeah... Penny wise pound foolish.

Unless you already get Medicare & just don't want the same for others. Better to pay profiteers 20% and reduce services than let the govt negotiate pricing?

You are going on ignore because you don't make sense.

[hamsterjill]

239. Happy to be ignored by people such as yourself.

That way, you won't feel compelled to answer my posts with utter nonsense.

The dire warnings about AI have been around since the 60's, you know that time period when America first rebelled against "the establishment"?

But you won't be reading this, of course.

[katsy]

257. I saw my post come to top of my post list & knew you answered.

But today's news is something you should read because it's not scifi as you implied.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141464906

Also... Adidas is making their products in Germany again using robots.

That is AI.

Crack a science or manufacturing journal & get a clue.

[hamsterjill]

267. Get a clue?

Good grief! Please go forward with your intent to ignore me. It's not necessary that you respond further.

[Lodestar]

130. Well Lets Poll The Country On That! Which of the candidates' values

do American's most identify with? Who would make the best leader??
Who is the most trustworthy?

I think we ALL know who the majority of Americans would be in alignment with.

But lets do it...let's just simply ask in a very public way. No delegates to hide behind,
just a straight up questionaire.

[libtodeath]

131. This is why Hillary supporters sicken progressives.

[VulgarPoet]

132. + 1000. nt

[DemocraticWing]

133. There will be a new America. And it will be socialist. Deal with it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

140. HMM there is plenty of ahem socialism

so when are you privatizing all this?

[Rex]

212. The old rank and file here is starting to lose it.

Their ignorance of what socialism is, mirrors another groups ignorance...how curious?

[nadinbrzezinski]

213. Yup

[AZ Progressive]

143. Thats right, own up to it, be proud of it!

Tell everyone here that's in the bottom 80% to go fuck off and accept social darwinism! Tell them that its their fault that they didn't have the gall to manipulate many people in order to become wealthy!

[panader0]

146. You may be a socialist if....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002475949

[MisterP]

147. 70-90% of Americans want peace, education, healthcare, etc.--but the political class

is getting its money mostly by denying these things to the country (Emanuel even set up a "veal pen" to block it)

Sanders points this out, Clinton runs by saying she'll be Wall Street's biggest enemy

two different paradigms

[BootinUp]

149. ericson, this is no way to win primary votes. The facts are all Hillary needs to convince them.

[AZ Progressive]

152. You people have been deceitful long enough

It's refreshing to see some honesty from Hillary supporters from a change, even if its ugly.

[BootinUp]

156. Thanks for the broad brushing, attack. nt

[AZ Progressive]

150. This thread shows that Malcolm X's "fox and wolf" analogy is still true today

[merrily]

151. Dude. 1405 views, 150 replies and 5 recs. Get a clue.

[neverforget]

159. And if it weren't for Amnesty, this bs wouldn't be here.

11 hides. Lovely.

[merrily]

161. ericsson? LOL! I always thought of him or her as innocuous. Then again, I look at the Op post

and the OP name and I get the drift, so I don't bother to read the whole thread that ericsson starts. LOL!

What a group! They were an endangered species here on hides alone before amnesty. And they complain about us!

BTW, have you noticed the Brockolis today? I guess trained period ended? Proof! Links! Direct quotes! Exact words! Lots of demands, but under 40 posts total. It's hysterical. I never thought he was that clueless. I guess he makes up for it in sheer evil and souless-ness. (does soul less have two ls or one?)

[QC]

170. One has racked up 1,100 posts in just a month.

Sure, they're all robotic repetitions of talking points, along with a few personal attacks, but one must still admire the work ethic.

[HooptieWagon]

154. This country had to pass a constitutional amendment....

...because we kept reelecting a Democratic Socialist.

[larkrake]

155. thanx for the call to Hell, I wont sit still for that. socialism isnt communism

our economy is at risk with Hillary more than anyone. Bernie will only improve it

[jamese777]

160. The Proof Is In The Pudding

Primaries' total popular vote as of May 20th
Hillary Clinton: 13,192,713 (55.5%)
Donald Trump: 11,266,041
Bernie Sanders: 10,158,889 (42.7%)

Clinton over Sanders: 3,033,824
Clinton over Trump: 1,926,672

Hillary Clinton: 1,775 pledged delegates
Bernie Sanders: 1,499 pledged delegates

Hillary Clinton: 522 superdelegates
Bernie Sanders: 42 superdelegates

Hillary Clinton: 2,297 total delegates
Bernie Sanders: 1,541 total delegates

Hillary Clinton: 26 contests won
Bernie Sanders: 21 contests won

[derpderpderp]

163. Hit n' run.

Sign says you should have turned right. Oh, you did.

[katsy]

165. You are mistaken

Capitalism is an economic system. Well governed countries with effective safety nets for the common good also have a capitalist economic system.

Effective government regulates capitalistic endeavors so we don't end up fucking over the least of us.

Here are some problems that capitalism is either at fault for, not adequate for, or needs better regulation:

1. Healthcare is a human right in most 1st world countries. Capitalists should not dictate who lives or dies, who is worthy of life or not. That is not saying that common sense shouldn't apply to costs/risks. Just that corporations who answer to shareholders & are profit driven shouldn't be in charge of those decisions.

2. Environment, climate change & sustainability. This needs no comment. Governments must regulate better.

3. Ya wanna french kiss capitalism? It's ok by me but don't fucking look to taxpayers to bail out these banking fuckers when they fuck themselves over AND if taxpayer $$$$ was used to develop new tech that corps use... Consider us fucking shareholders. And pay your fucking taxes douchbags.

Now... If you are still confused, sign over your socialist social security check to me. Refuse help from your fire dept when your house is burning. Don't use the libraries. Ask your neighbor to take out that brain tumor cuz ya know who needs government regulations and accreditations. Don't send your kids to public school. Drink FLINT water. In short... Somalia is your fucking dream country.

Your op is ignorant. We are a representative democracy who pool resources for the good of the commons... We the people. It's the capitalists who stole our money and resources and diverted those funds to their own pockets and now we need to take that back.

[Fawke Em]

166. What total horseshit.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/05/senator-bernie-sanders-policy-platform-presidential-campaign

http://reverbpress.com/politics/datalog/americans-agree-bernie-sanders/

[Fawke Em]

167. BTW, the economy will suffer under her just as much.

Incrementalism isn't working.

[passiveporcupine]

171. Not even reading the thread

just another Hillary supporter with a yellow button.

Buh Bye!

plonk

[Quixote1818]

172. Democratic Socialist countries are also capitalist.

But you didn't take the time to look into that did you? That Sanders just wants to fix capitalism in the US not get rid of it. Make it work for everyone not just the 1% because currently there is NO free market, only one rigged to help the rich. Wall Street can collapse the economy and get bailed out while regular folks never get their debt waved. The Unions have been crushed and the middle class is in decline. Capitalism needs to be fixed to work for everyone and it takes a bit of socialism to balance things out. Not a radically difficult thing to understand.

[ucrdem]

173. I agree to the extent the US is historically resistant to taxation.

That's what our revolution was all about. We've come a long, long way from 1776 but the GOP can always play the history card when they need votes.

[kentuck]

174. We are about 50% socialist already.

The question is: Is that enough? That is at the core of the debate between Democrats and Republicans.

[rockfordfile]

176. This poster should cut the fox news crap

The poster's first paragraph sounds like a republican.

I'm a democrat and that junk is right wing all the way.

[merrily]

179. 175 posts and counting and still no sign of the OP returning? Hmmm.

[guillaumeb]

181. You really should give Rush Limbaugh credit for your post.

At least Limbaugh gets paid to speak this silliness.

[treestar]

183. Yes, it is very unrealistic to think the masses of Americans

really want instability. The US is extremely stable. Ask people from countries with unstable governments if it is worth it. And the "Revolution" can make things a lot worse than they had been.

Most Americans are happy with the system as it is, not assuming the worst of everyone else, and fine with the stability.

[Ash_F]

184. 63% of Americans think the minimum wage should be $15 by 2020

Sanders plan is by 2022. Objectively to the right of the majority opinion.

America may not be "socialist", whatever that means.

But it is definitely to the left of Sanders!

[arcane1]

186. Minion says what?

http://correctrecord.org/barrier-breakers-2016-a-project-of-correct-the-record/

[Todays_Illusion]

189. I'm sticking with Bernie and I notice you don't mention that our current Congres is no reflection

of people's beliefs and desires.

And there is opposing research to your talking point "centrist right nation" opinion.

http://www.salon.com/2014/07/28/gops_30_year_spin_job_is_over_why_we_are_not_a_center_right_nation/

[Betty Karlson]

190. Status quo wants more status quo. Let's pretend that FDR never was president.

Yawn. Desperate nonsense from camp Weathervane.

[imagine2015]

191. "We are not socialist" Thanks for the info! We didn't know that!

What is "centrist capitalism" as opposed to "right-wing capitalism" and "left-wing capitalism" whatever the frick the later may be?

We sure don't want to tax the rich until they are poor and have to depend on food stamps and other government relief.

I didn't know that's what Bernie and his supporters were planning to do.

You must have inside information!

[GeorgeGist]

193. Arrogance ...

is never a virtue.

[gordianot]

194. The United States is a Socialist country.

The Socialism practiced here makes it possible for Capitalism to exisist. Think about it the next time you drive on a paid road.

[LanternWaste]

203. i think socialism could indeed happen in the U.S. with effective evolution.

i think socialism could indeed happen in the U.S. with effective evolution. Revolution however, would send the concept into a death-spiral for 75 years.

[Vinca]

204. Very odd the most favored programs in our government are socialist programs.

Try taking Medicare and Social Security away from Grandma, my friend. She'll straighten you out about socialism.

[Amaril]

207. "Deal with it"

Nice.

AND, a President Trump will be all on you for backing a candidate who couldn't beat him. YOU deal with THAT.

Oh, and, buh-bye.

[seekthetruth]

208. .....and you're what's wrong with the left.

Deal with it.

[Attorney in Texas]

214. That's why we pay our fire department subscription fees, elementary school tuition, and road tolls!

[kaleckim]

217. ...

says 1986. Look at the polling on the actual issues. The "center" is defined by popular opinion, and the center is to the left of people like yourself and corrupt politicians like DWS and HRC on the issues. Sorry if it's hard to keep up with the changes in the country, but the system has not benefited enough people for people to feel the need to maintain the system. You forgot to make policies equitable enough to get enough people that want to maintain the system, and now the chickens are coming home roost.

[CobaltBlue]

218. ericson00—Thank you for trying to channel Alex Keaton, Michael J. Fox’s character, on ‘Family Ties!’

[EndElectoral]

220. Yeah, let's throw out all those socialist ideas like Social Security,Medicare, public ed, fire depts

etc...

What an idiotic black and white op.

[forjusticethunders]

221. Btw, socialism doesn't preclude markets either

And really, it's honestly not an economic system (neither is capitalism), it's a political outlook in terms of who has power, the capitalists or the workers. Socialism in America would, even if every other country went socialist, be more market based most likely (for example I could see a formally socialist United States still having Wall Street, even if it's still 10% of the power and influence it currently has). That's why social democracy and market socialism exist. This is why we call fascist states in the 30s capitalist even though businesses were highly regulated by the state, and we callled states like the pre 1980s UK socialist, despite having markets and corporations, because the state was directed more towards human needs.

That's why it's incoherent to say that Scandinavia isn't socialist or even that we weren't moving in a socialist direction in 1960-1970 (granted Vietnam fucked it up) because we were seeing that people power was starting to become a powerful counterweight to corporate power (though the racism of the white working class fucked it up too)

That's why I consider socialism and capitalism more of *political* outlooks than social ones.

[cliffordu]

223. Ah, bullshit.

Just keep up the republican talking points and name calling and slander and you can HAVE your republican presidency.
Free religionist psychotics included, some assembly required.

[craigmatic]

226. Ameerica is a trophy to be won by whichever side is strong enough to take it point blank

period.

[ZombieHorde]

227. Europe will always have feudalism.

Oh wait!

[Rosa Luxemburg]

228. you mean like Great Britain?

Britain is not a socialist country yet it has most of the things Bernie is campaigning for Britain has. America needs to get its act together or fascism will come to America or perhaps its here already?

[brush]

229. I'm a Clinton supporter but this OP doesn't represent my views, or her's.

The country needs to move left as the oligarchs are attempting to take over.

Many of Sanders' ideas are good, he is just the wrong proponent of them. Too bad Warren didn't run.

He bashes the Democratic party more than he does Trump and the repugs.

[dflprincess]

230. There is more upward mobility in Scandinavia

than there currently is in the United States.

Might explain why we don't see hoards of Scandinavians swarming our embassies and begging for refuge from their socialist hell holes.

[Karma13612]

234. It didn't start out this way, and the

Pols and corporations have created this mess.

This is not a fair representation of what the actual voting citizens of this country have wanted to happen.

We have been down trodden and taxed/managed/controlled/lied to and ignored into this current mess.

And please update yourself: there is barely a middle class alive anymore.

[rdking647]

237. the problem with bernie supportes is if you dont agree then you are branded a republican

America is a centrist country.
calling hillary a right winger shows just how far to the left some bernie supporters are. america however is not that far left.
its time for bernie supporters to face reality.
he isnt going to be the nominee. its not going to happen.

and declaring that if he isnt the nominee you wont vote for HRC is really just cutting off your nose to spite your face
its almost like they want trump to win so they can protest .

[forjusticethunders]

269. The Overton window has been shifted significantly far right

Everyone agrees on this. The problem with the Bernie supporters is that they put the cart before the horse. Reagan was the result, not the cause, of the conservative counterrevolution in the 80s. To shift it back left, it takes a lot of activism and coalition building and outreach, and while some of it has happened, a lot of it still needs to be done.

[frustrated_lefty]

238. You are genuinely an idiot.

I'd say more about how moronic your position is, but you're too stupid to comprehend your own idiocy within the context of history. You go on cheering for the 1% and see how far it gets you.

[Odin2005]

240. You are a Republican, go to Free Republic and suck up to the 1% there.

[snowy owl]

243. If you read more, you'd know this is not true. BTW, what does "capitalist" country mean?

Do you know?

[pangaia]

251. Holy shit. A "Democrat" just wrote this?

Not in my book.

[arcane1]

252. In 1776, that poster would be telling us to remain loyal to the British Crown.

[floriduck]

254. Never say never. You are not Nostradamus.

[TransitJohn]

268. This is right wing Republican dogma

And pretty fucking disgusting.