2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumThe DNC needs to correct the blatant election fraud in Nevada. If they don't...
If they don't, they simply will *not* be able to win back Bernie's supporters, should Hillary prevail.
Because that was not democracy. It was fraud. It was a travesty. And we will not let it go.
Gomez163
(2,039 posts)Good.
floriduck
(2,262 posts)Response to floriduck (Reply #3)
Gomez163 This message was self-deleted by its author.
Arneoker
(375 posts)Would you enjoy the Trump picks to the SC, major tax cuts for the rich blowing up the deficit, millions losing Obamacare?
Oh I know, scare talk. None of that would actually happen.
bahrbearian
(13,466 posts)Response to bahrbearian (Reply #11)
Gomez163 This message was self-deleted by its author.
bahrbearian
(13,466 posts)Response to bahrbearian (Reply #13)
Gomez163 This message was self-deleted by its author.
bahrbearian
(13,466 posts)CorporatistNation
(2,546 posts)upaloopa
(11,417 posts)Some have already pivoted to the general and know we have to stop Trump.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)A majority voting for the motion, there were less Sanders delegates who showed up, there was more Hillary delegates who showed up, the Hillary delegates was in the majority and therefore the vote when their way. The majority wins.
kiva
(4,373 posts)that Lange mishandled. This was the motion for a recount, and I promise you there were more Bernie than Hillary people at that point, which is why she closed the convention, despite the fact that the at large delegates had not been elected.
So, given your "majority wins" mantra, there should have been a recount at that point.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)The delegates was supposed to be voting.
kiva
(4,373 posts)Many Clinton supporters had chosen to leave and there were many more Sanders delegates at that point.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Yes there was an attempt of fraud, the chair made the right decision, good of her.
kiva
(4,373 posts)at the Clark County convention - you know, the one that Bernie won - a Clinton delegate made a similar motion for a recount after the count was announced and that motion went to a vote and the delegates voted it down. Lange didn't allow the vote Saturday because she knew it would pass.
silvershadow
(10,336 posts)Someone unknown changed party registrations. Additionally, Sanders' supporters were told a start time 30 mins later than when convention was gaveled in.
That's just for starters.
Demsrule86
(68,586 posts)You all were there to cause trouble. You realize you are fighting over three delegates? Bernie is losing so badly, it really doesn't matter. And with the news out today how he plans to 'hurt' Hillary in the General..I honestly think he will do way worse now. This sort of behavior is just gross.
JimDandy
(7,318 posts)Il_Coniglietto
(373 posts)Cause it wasn't Bernie Sanders.
Surely you wouldn't support subverting the will of the people. And I know a principled man such as Bernie would respect those results...it doesn't stop being a democracy just because you lose.
kiva
(4,373 posts)Clark County Convention? That would be Bernie. And if you think only the February caucus counts, you do not understand the Nevada caucus system.
Demsrule86
(68,586 posts)There is only one caucus where voters show up to make their choice in February...the other two involve choosing delegates that should be awarded based on who won the state. The April convention is called not called primary because it is not...in normal years delegates are given out in proportion to who won the state...but of course you are the smartest people in the room and pulled a cruz...taking what you could not earn in votes. In may you tried to continue with the theft, but this time Hillary folks were on to you and of course the Bernie supporter who sent the letter only to the Hillary people with the wrong time in April was fired so the Hillary folk showed up in large numbers...larger numbers than you all. Then you all had a temper tantrum and acted so badly that you brought discredit on Bernie. And now you whine that 'you was robbed'. Do you have any idea how foolish you look?
JimDandy
(7,318 posts)Hillary lost at the County Convention level because thousands of her delegates across the state were so unenthusiastic about her they simply didn't show up.
Clinton, when faced with having to follow rules and use the processes of the Dem Party, as your team soooooooooo often says Bernie must, Hillary balked, because they no longer favored her.
Because your candidate lost at the 2nd level, she conspired with her supporters in the top levels of the Nevada Party to CHANGE the rules so she would not lose. They engineered it so that all the votes of every Democrat at the County Conventions were declared null and void.
That kind of anti-democratic manipulation crossed the line into corruption. It was unprecedented. Unprecedented not just in Nevada, but in every state Democratic Party in the entire US.
That's YOUR candidate. Not a single Hillary supporter on DU has condemned that corruption, because you all, like Hillary want to win at ANY cost.
It's going to cost you.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)you'd perhaps realize that the NV caucus has three separate tiers, and delegates are awarded at each step, and there was nothing at all that was subverting the Feb 20 results.
Now you can go to the ignore list.
/bye.
Demsrule86
(68,586 posts)the rest are conventions where delegates are chosen...you pulled a Cruz.
Il_Coniglietto
(373 posts)Snotcicles
(9,089 posts)Metric System
(6,048 posts)Response to reformist2 (Original post)
NowSam This message was self-deleted by its author.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Response to Thinkingabout (Reply #23)
NowSam This message was self-deleted by its author.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)And if you equate peace loving by the actions of some one hundred people standing near the stage it was not. One Sanders supported alliluded to a bad set up outside and the lack of food may have contributed to irrational behavior then say this, havec Sanders make a statement to this affect but blaming the establishment for their irrational behavior is wrong.
Demsrule86
(68,586 posts)Or maybe what frightened her happened before or later than your sorry video...sorry you acted badly...and only make yourselves look silly posting stuff like this.
all american girl
(1,788 posts)That she couldn't be scared, because I guess she wasn't hiding in a corner somewhere. She was standing up to the bullies and not taking shit from them, but that certainly doesn't mean she wasn't scared...they were aggressive in their behavior, and when you got 50-100, mostly men, that can be unnerving...but hey, it was her fault....In my opinion, anyone who condones the behavior of these delegates are really not liberal, because how could a liberal think that this is OK?
JimDandy
(7,318 posts)at the NV Convention subverted democracy, the very essence of how we live and govern ourselves, affected MILLIONS of Democrats, created an atmosphere of disdain for our party and undermined the trust and confidence they had placed in our party.
As horrible as the alleged threats were, they affected ONE person (the very same corrupt person who manipulated the system to favor Clinton, by the way).
You are the FIRST Clinton supporter to admit that the theft of votes in NV on Saturday was horrible, so maybe we have something in common we can work to fix, perhaps?
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Raise help at the Sanders delegates who did not show up, threatening the chair was the wrong place. They still needed two thirds to overturn the rules.
JimDandy
(7,318 posts)The rule should never have existed. The people who proposed such a corrupt rule need to be forced out of the party, by everyone: Sanders supporters, Clinton supporters, unaffiliated Dems-everyone. There is a line that should never be crossed. We can't allow 'winning at any cost' when the cost is the integrity of the party and holes punched in the mantle of democracy.
You were right the first time: the rule was horrible.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Rule, it does not rise to the occasion of the actions of those disrupting the convention and surely the resulting threats. Where is the rule which says this behavior is acceptable.
riversedge
(70,243 posts)AtomicKitten
(46,585 posts)annavictorious
(934 posts)game the Nevada convention, and no one is buying the alternate reality of what happened.
Sanders could have left this race as a very influential progressive leader. He chose not to. Clearly is agenda takes second placeto his ambition.
riversedge
(70,243 posts)Uncle Joe
(58,366 posts)Thanks for the thread, reformist.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)What is the end count that came out of the weekend?
LonePirate
(13,426 posts)For some reason, overturning the will of the voters is not election fraud in this situation. I wonder why.
Demsrule86
(68,586 posts)Who are they kidding? It is sleazy to try to take delegates you didn't earn...and a letter was sent to Hillary people with the wrong time ...in April. These BSSers should stop digging.
mindwalker_i
(4,407 posts)It's a feature.
The "Democratic" party needs to be destroyed and remade into something that has values beyond knob-gobbling corporations. Right now they are set up to prevent any grass-roots uprising that could jeapordize their revenue stream.
Demsrule86
(68,586 posts)Go start your own pure party...don't let the door....
mindwalker_i
(4,407 posts)I'm sick of the undemocratic BS of the Democratic (tm) party.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)I doubt they're going to either investigate or apologize for rigging an election.
peace13
(11,076 posts)Why be angry when you're the thief. Very perplexing!
YouDig
(2,280 posts)have been ejected. We can't bend the rules for this kind of people, next time kick them out as soon as they start acting up. Fortunately, the intimidation tactics didn't result in Bernie being able to steal any delegates, but attempted vote stealing like Bernie's campaign did there should not be tolerated.
anotherproletariat
(1,446 posts)care. If the NV DNC was guilty of anything, it was not having the delegates sign something to indicate that they had read the rules before coming to the convention.
Renew Deal
(81,863 posts)The winner won
msongs
(67,420 posts)Gothmog
(145,321 posts)Here is some fact checking on this issue http://www.politifact.com/nevada/statements/2016/may/18/jeff-weaver/allegations-fraud-and-misconduct-nevada-democratic/
The rules, which can be read here, also state that any amendment attempts must be approved by two-thirds of the convention delegates which would be difficult given the nearly even number of Clinton and Sanders backers present.
Sanders backers say the continuing nature of the presidential primary necessitated more rule changes.
The Sanders campaign did not respond to a request for comment. In a previous statement, the campaign detailed several allegations of misconduct from the state party, which we considered as part of this fact-check. "At that convention the Democratic leadership used its power to prevent a fair and transparent process from taking place," the campaign said in that statement.
However, there were no last minute rule changes sprung on convention-goers the rules had been publicly available weeks in advance, largely unchanged for three presidential cycles, and given to both campaigns.
The first major fight happened in the morning, with the convention being gaveled in nearly 40 minutes after the scheduled 9 a.m. start time.
In a voice vote, Lange approved adoption of a preliminary credentials report showing more Clinton than Sanders delegates. Immediate howls of protests from the Sanders contingent emerged, many of whom rushed the dais and started screaming insults and obscenities directly at Lange.
Although several videos from the event appear to have louder "nays" than "yeas," both preliminary and final delegate counts showed that Clinton supporters outnumbered Sanders supporters in the room.
And trying to determine the outcome of a voice vote from a video of around 3,000 delegates is somewhat arbitrary to begin with. The only person with authority to call for a different voting mechanism is the convention chair: Lange.....
Our ruling
Sanders campaign manager Jeff Weaver said Nevada Democratic Party leaders "hijacked the process on the floor" of the state convention "ignoring the regular procedure and ramming through what they wanted to do."
Caucuses and delegate math can be incredibly confusing, and the arcane party structures dont reflect how most people assume presidential selection works.
But the howls of unfairness and corruption by the Sanders campaign during Nevadas state Democratic Convention cant change the simple fact that Clintons supporters simply turned out in larger numbers and helped her solidify her delegate lead in Nevada.
Theres no clear evidence the state party "hijacked" the process or ignored "regular procedure."
We rate this claim False.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)when MATH, the most basic and unbiased of known facts, proves time, and again, unconvincing on DU?
I appreciate your clarity and efforts, though.
Gothmog
(145,321 posts)I like the real world, math and facts.
How are you doing?
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)real world, math and facts are foreign to DU these days.
I'm good ... trying to survive a public/private merger, where the organizational cultures couldn't be more disparate ... we, the public sector entity, value transparency and Due Process for employees; whereas, our private sector conquerors seemz wholly unfamiliar with the terms ... Neutral fact finding inquiries are more like, adversial cross-exams.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)they do not want their left flank. It is a strategic error, but hey... it is their decision.
And this has a stinky smell of dedazo.
riversedge
(70,243 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)or, they will *not* be able to win back Bernie's supporters, who were never going to vote for her (you've told anyone who will listen, again and again, to the point I, for one, believe you, when HRC prevails.
BTW, it seems that HRC and the DNC are doing pretty well with non-foot stomping, fit throwing, Bernie supporters that recognize the horror that would be a trump presidency.