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DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
Fri Nov 2, 2012, 07:33 AM Nov 2012

Perverse media incentive watch: Chris Cillizza

Today, the Washington Post's Chris Cillizza has moved Ohio from "lean Obama" to "tossup." Yet the current margin in Ohio is Obama +3.0+/-0.5% (n=14 polls, Oct. 13-Nov. 1) and probably insuperable. What could be Cillizza's reason?

He writes: "...the absolute necessity for Romney to win the state if he wants to be president - leads us to move it back to the 'tossup' category." Now here is some problematic reasoning. Romney needs Ohio, so therefore it's a toss-up. Ah yes, the "let's not bicker about who killed who" argument.

Cillizza is hardly alone. A few days ago, Wolf Blitzer at CNN cited a single Ohio poll, done by his own organization, showing Obama up by 4%. He then proceeded to call this a "tie," revealing an amazing inability to interpret a simple number. Compounding this is the fact that dozens of polls have been conducted in Ohio. The odds of an Obama lead are extremely high. So why does he persist?

The news media have an incentive to fuzz up the picture: ratings and profit. A message that the cake is fully baked does not automatically bring back the viewers. Without the artificial suspense, Cillizza and Blitzer are put in a position of having to say something substantive or interesting that gets beyond a horserace number. Think how much work that would be.

http://election.princeton.edu/perverse-media-incentives-cillizza-2nov2012.php

36 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Perverse media incentive watch: Chris Cillizza (Original Post) DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2012 OP
Setting up an election to be stolen Anthony McCarthy Nov 2012 #1
Exactly!! sandyshoes17 Nov 2012 #2
Yes, and CNN and WaPo are in on the big conspiracy! longship Nov 2012 #3
I Have A View That Makes Me A Bit Of An Outcast Here DemocratSinceBirth Nov 2012 #4
I agree. longship Nov 2012 #5
It seems CT crazy to fear that the voting machines have been rigged. Chemisse Nov 2012 #10
Well, the machines do have to pass an audit. longship Nov 2012 #14
Are you familiar with the hearings Waxman held on voting machines a few years ago? merrily Nov 2012 #15
Very naive BetterThanNoSN Nov 2012 #17
Well, we will see some time Tuesday or Wednesday. longship Nov 2012 #22
That is somewhat reassuring Chemisse Nov 2012 #21
Answering your concerns with a different tack... LibertyBell7 Nov 2012 #23
You are right, that is the best way to combat Republican cheating efforts, Chemisse Nov 2012 #35
I totally am not into conspiracy theories. Jennicut Nov 2012 #19
Occam never met a Republican GeorgeGist Nov 2012 #34
"But, one thing's for sure..." FiveGoodMen Nov 2012 #12
ever since the scotus said lying is protected speech under the 1st amendment SemperEadem Nov 2012 #24
The media promotes it because it drives up their ratings... Drunken Irishman Nov 2012 #26
Good post. I agree with your narrative. nt longship Nov 2012 #29
+1 nt ProudProgressiveNow Nov 2012 #33
This morning ... 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2012 #6
Why is everyone forgetting 2000? It was pretty equally close in terms of national polling. Jennicut Nov 2012 #20
Romney needs OH so Cillizza makes it a tossup??? When did Romney hire Cillizza? n/t dsharp88 Nov 2012 #7
Statistical accuracy of what - zero percent? Blue Idaho Nov 2012 #8
Create your own reality! TwilightGardener Nov 2012 #9
MOST corrupted vote count possibilities with Husted in chg and absentee ballots being tossed. CarmanK Nov 2012 #11
and chuck todd EC Nov 2012 #13
Chuck Todd and Willie Geist pretend to be objective, but both slant right merrily Nov 2012 #16
Agree.. n/t EC Nov 2012 #18
I noticed that comment between Chris and Chuck Todd Chemisse Nov 2012 #36
I usually like to hear what Chris bagimin Nov 2012 #25
Cillizza SMELLS NASTY, SOUNDS NASTY, THINKS NASTY, I BET HE IS... drynberg Nov 2012 #27
I posted a nasty (but polite) comment on his comments section DFW Nov 2012 #28
a plant ropercarmine Nov 2012 #30
Chris Cillizza is a preposterous little man radiclib Nov 2012 #31
Romney really, really, really, REALLY wants a pony . . . MrModerate Nov 2012 #32
 

Anthony McCarthy

(507 posts)
1. Setting up an election to be stolen
Fri Nov 2, 2012, 07:38 AM
Nov 2012

The WaPo and CNN are part of the media apparatus that helped steal the 2000 election. They're worse today, if anything. The corporate media are the problem. I'm marking Cillizza and Blitzer as "tossup" tossers.

sandyshoes17

(657 posts)
2. Exactly!!
Fri Nov 2, 2012, 07:52 AM
Nov 2012

I'm with you. I don't believe this horse race crap. People who don't watch cable news, still don't . Doesn't matter if it's close. He needs Ohio so they say it's a toss up. Then when he wins Ohio, will everyone say the pundits were right or realize that they set it up for him? They want us to believe they are doing it for money, it's just a coincidence that they can also steal it that way.

longship

(40,416 posts)
3. Yes, and CNN and WaPo are in on the big conspiracy!
Fri Nov 2, 2012, 08:43 AM
Nov 2012

In fact, there are a few conspirators under my bed, too.


I have no idea why the media promotes this horse race shit. But, one thing's for sure. It is not so that Romney, or anybody else can (so-called) steal the election. I suspect that the tied contest is yet another meme that gets spewed out, just like the stolen election screeching.

Ignore the screeching and look at the data.

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
4. I Have A View That Makes Me A Bit Of An Outcast Here
Fri Nov 2, 2012, 08:54 AM
Nov 2012

It's probably the one area where I deviate from DU orthodoxy. I despise conspiracy theories, whether they come from the left or the right. Occam's Razor usually gets thing right. When you eliminate all the possibilities the most likely possibility is correct.

longship

(40,416 posts)
5. I agree.
Fri Nov 2, 2012, 10:37 AM
Nov 2012

And Occam's razor also says that it is the simplest theory consistent with all the data.

That's one part that the conspiracy theorists ignore. They cherry pick their data, ignoring the disconfirming points. Another thing they do is anomaly hunt. Any anomalous thing -- many of which are no such thing -- are touted as evidence for the conspiracy.

It's really weird how they think.

Thanks for the response.

Chemisse

(30,813 posts)
10. It seems CT crazy to fear that the voting machines have been rigged.
Fri Nov 2, 2012, 12:39 PM
Nov 2012

And I don't want to believe it.

But Romney's son somehow owns part of the company that makes them.

And the company came to Ohio and added new software to them a few months ago.

Please tell me some data that will refute this worry of mine!

longship

(40,416 posts)
14. Well, the machines do have to pass an audit.
Fri Nov 2, 2012, 01:27 PM
Nov 2012

And if a person thinks that any government audit wouldn't make sure votes were counted fairly, then I don't know what else to say to convince them.

Also, do people honestly believe that there wouldn't be a temptation to blow the whistle on some skulduggery?

Programmers are very intelligent people. Surely some on a team would be Democrats, or Independents. Many in tech are Libertarians who despise the Republicans.

But the conspiracy theorist insists that there is no incentive to blow the whistle on statewide voter fraud that would give the White House to a person you don't like?

The CT has answers to that. They are paid off. (I'd bet the NYTimes would pay more.) They would be killed if they told. (Seriously, murder on top of it?)

The CT has to instill increasing omniscience and omnipotence to the conspiracy in order to keep holding onto their beliefs. The problem with all these conspiracy theories is that they collapse under their own weight.

Okham's razor slices them right off.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
15. Are you familiar with the hearings Waxman held on voting machines a few years ago?
Fri Nov 2, 2012, 01:43 PM
Nov 2012

The testimony was that rigging them would be incredibly easy.

BetterThanNoSN

(170 posts)
17. Very naive
Fri Nov 2, 2012, 01:54 PM
Nov 2012

You need to spend some time at Bradblog.com. The source codes are what has to be verified and these voting machine owners DON"T let you see the code, its proprietary you know!!

longship

(40,416 posts)
22. Well, we will see some time Tuesday or Wednesday.
Fri Nov 2, 2012, 02:51 PM
Nov 2012

I stick by my post. I appreciate your response, but must respectfully disagree.

If I am incorrect, I will be glad to defer to your opinion.

Chemisse

(30,813 posts)
21. That is somewhat reassuring
Fri Nov 2, 2012, 02:00 PM
Nov 2012

I would like to know how an electronic machine is audited, and when/how they are planning to do that.

If there are no backup ballots, how do they determine if something is rigged? It could be set to alter the voting ratios just on election day, with no signs of such tampering before or after.

My biggest criticism of all CTs is like yours: Anytime you have a group secret, there is somebody who just can't keep their mouth shut. It always comes out, sooner or later.

So I am hoping all goes well in Ohio.

LibertyBell7

(22 posts)
23. Answering your concerns with a different tack...
Fri Nov 2, 2012, 03:10 PM
Nov 2012

I say to assume your concerns are all true, and maybe even worst than that Tagg Romney has some controlling interest in one of the major voting machine companies. Example: That there are maybe a couple dozen states where the people responsible for ensuring votes get counted are Corporazi, er, Republican, operatives.

What are we to do in the face of the fact these people are waging civil war against our democracy?

We must flood the poles. We have to literally swamp their efforts to usurp our collective will.

Where they can steal a percent here and a point or two there, we must get 5-8-10% more bodies to the poles, ignore (or report to the police — crying "voter intimidation&quot Corporazi brownshirts like those <i>True the Vote</i> thugs, and stand in lines for as many hours as it takes to cast your ballots.

We have to eclipse the 2008 turnout, and erase the shame of the 2010 turnout.

In unity, strength. We control our destiny here.

Chemisse

(30,813 posts)
35. You are right, that is the best way to combat Republican cheating efforts,
Sat Nov 3, 2012, 08:19 AM
Nov 2012

whether they are voter suppression laws, workplace intimidation, or voter machine tinkering.

Everybody to the polls!!

Jennicut

(25,415 posts)
19. I totally am not into conspiracy theories.
Fri Nov 2, 2012, 01:58 PM
Nov 2012

You better back that up with some solid evidence for me to believe. The MSM naturally does like a horse race as it is more interesting for them to cover then one in the bag. Are they evil? No, just hacks.

FiveGoodMen

(20,018 posts)
12. "But, one thing's for sure..."
Fri Nov 2, 2012, 01:12 PM
Nov 2012

Really?

Why is it for sure?

What do you know that you're not telling us?

(Because if you DON'T know something that you're not telling us, then you certainly don't know that your "one thing" is for sure)

SemperEadem

(8,053 posts)
24. ever since the scotus said lying is protected speech under the 1st amendment
Fri Nov 2, 2012, 04:09 PM
Nov 2012

these assholes have gone off the deep end.

 

Drunken Irishman

(34,857 posts)
26. The media promotes it because it drives up their ratings...
Fri Nov 2, 2012, 06:18 PM
Nov 2012

I think this has its roots in the '96 election. The race was never tight ... Clinton led Dole for the entire length of the race and because of it, interest in the campaign was very low. No one cared. No one really feared a Dole presidency and most supported Clinton enough to give him a second term. There was no news to the campaign. No stories about how close it was going to be, as was the case four years prior in '92, so, the media was left focusing on a race no one gave a damn about. When the polls closed, and the votes were counted, '96 saw the worst turnout of any modern election in American history.

So, in 2000, they readjusted and came back with a stronger narrative that the race was going to be the race to end all races. Sure, the fact it was close helped, but even before it was close, even before things came down to the final days, the media was still pushing this idea that the election would be closer than close. They did the same thing in '04 and, more impressively, I guess, in '08. The final days of the race weren't spent on talking about Obama's lead ... it was spent on talking about how McCain could still win.

http://pjmedia.com/blog/ten-reasons-why-mccain-could-still-win/

http://www.salon.com/2008/10/13/obama_69/

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2008/10/29/54972/mccain-could-still-win-if-everything.html

http://www.redstate.com/dan_perrin/2008/10/28/the-seven-reasons-mccain-palin-are-a-lock-to/

It's what they do. It's how they keep people interested. They want people watching the returns on election night anticipating a very close race because if people think Obama has this in the bag, what's the point of even watching?

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
6. This morning ...
Fri Nov 2, 2012, 11:36 AM
Nov 2012

my local broadcast news outlet flashed a screen indicating (President) Obama - 49%/romney - 49%, then went on to talk about "this is the closest race in recent history."

So I posted to their website: 49%/49%? How about looking at the polling of Nate Silver ... a pollster that actually uses a transparent methodology; rather than wishful thinking?

Jennicut

(25,415 posts)
20. Why is everyone forgetting 2000? It was pretty equally close in terms of national polling.
Fri Nov 2, 2012, 02:00 PM
Nov 2012

Stupid hack journalists.

CarmanK

(662 posts)
11. MOST corrupted vote count possibilities with Husted in chg and absentee ballots being tossed.
Fri Nov 2, 2012, 12:58 PM
Nov 2012

We have to be careful, bec we know that OH is not going to get a FAIR count of votes. It is REPUG distorted and discounted. They will do anything. The next big effort is for DEMS to get HUSTED out of office. He can go be a lobbyist for KOCHS etc... but he is UNFIT for public service and the power that goes along with representing the ppl.

EC

(12,287 posts)
13. and chuck todd
Fri Nov 2, 2012, 01:23 PM
Nov 2012

I'm beginning to see tension on MSNBC between Tweety and some of these guys. Yesterday Todd and Tweety were at each other - you could just tell - at one point Tweety even said he didn't want to get into a fight. So all those losers are doing what they can to promote the stiff, while Tweety and the other progressives seem to be making them mad by asking them why they would want to help the repubs.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
16. Chuck Todd and Willie Geist pretend to be objective, but both slant right
Fri Nov 2, 2012, 01:45 PM
Nov 2012

every chance they get.

The people who disgust me most are the ones who pretend objectivity.

drynberg

(1,648 posts)
27. Cillizza SMELLS NASTY, SOUNDS NASTY, THINKS NASTY, I BET HE IS...
Fri Nov 2, 2012, 06:20 PM
Nov 2012
Nasty. Nasty, as in the keep of dark forces, y'know, the RR boys and Koch Bros, etc. Cillizza is simply not relevant anymore.

DFW

(54,410 posts)
28. I posted a nasty (but polite) comment on his comments section
Fri Nov 2, 2012, 06:40 PM
Nov 2012

Some right-wing nut blasted me immediately under my comment, so I know I hit home.

I asked if Cillizza was taking his words from Luntz and his Christmas bonus from Rupert Murdoch, and said that if I had a wooden Pinocchio for every lie Romney had told this year, I'd have enough wood to open a supply depot for IKEA.

radiclib

(1,811 posts)
31. Chris Cillizza is a preposterous little man
Fri Nov 2, 2012, 11:30 PM
Nov 2012

A buffoonish mouthpiece for Beltway, horse-race obsessed nonsense.
His clownish appearances on Hardball usually provide an opportunity for a bathroom break.

 

MrModerate

(9,753 posts)
32. Romney really, really, really, REALLY wants a pony . . .
Sat Nov 3, 2012, 01:49 AM
Nov 2012

And so the chance of a pony materializing out of thin air has increased?

Damn, I wish that worked for me.

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