2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumPerverse media incentive watch: Chris Cillizza
Today, the Washington Post's Chris Cillizza has moved Ohio from "lean Obama" to "tossup." Yet the current margin in Ohio is Obama +3.0+/-0.5% (n=14 polls, Oct. 13-Nov. 1) and probably insuperable. What could be Cillizza's reason?
He writes: "...the absolute necessity for Romney to win the state if he wants to be president - leads us to move it back to the 'tossup' category." Now here is some problematic reasoning. Romney needs Ohio, so therefore it's a toss-up. Ah yes, the "let's not bicker about who killed who" argument.
Cillizza is hardly alone. A few days ago, Wolf Blitzer at CNN cited a single Ohio poll, done by his own organization, showing Obama up by 4%. He then proceeded to call this a "tie," revealing an amazing inability to interpret a simple number. Compounding this is the fact that dozens of polls have been conducted in Ohio. The odds of an Obama lead are extremely high. So why does he persist?
The news media have an incentive to fuzz up the picture: ratings and profit. A message that the cake is fully baked does not automatically bring back the viewers. Without the artificial suspense, Cillizza and Blitzer are put in a position of having to say something substantive or interesting that gets beyond a horserace number. Think how much work that would be.
http://election.princeton.edu/perverse-media-incentives-cillizza-2nov2012.php
Anthony McCarthy
(507 posts)The WaPo and CNN are part of the media apparatus that helped steal the 2000 election. They're worse today, if anything. The corporate media are the problem. I'm marking Cillizza and Blitzer as "tossup" tossers.
sandyshoes17
(657 posts)I'm with you. I don't believe this horse race crap. People who don't watch cable news, still don't . Doesn't matter if it's close. He needs Ohio so they say it's a toss up. Then when he wins Ohio, will everyone say the pundits were right or realize that they set it up for him? They want us to believe they are doing it for money, it's just a coincidence that they can also steal it that way.
longship
(40,416 posts)In fact, there are a few conspirators under my bed, too.
I have no idea why the media promotes this horse race shit. But, one thing's for sure. It is not so that Romney, or anybody else can (so-called) steal the election. I suspect that the tied contest is yet another meme that gets spewed out, just like the stolen election screeching.
Ignore the screeching and look at the data.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)It's probably the one area where I deviate from DU orthodoxy. I despise conspiracy theories, whether they come from the left or the right. Occam's Razor usually gets thing right. When you eliminate all the possibilities the most likely possibility is correct.
longship
(40,416 posts)And Occam's razor also says that it is the simplest theory consistent with all the data.
That's one part that the conspiracy theorists ignore. They cherry pick their data, ignoring the disconfirming points. Another thing they do is anomaly hunt. Any anomalous thing -- many of which are no such thing -- are touted as evidence for the conspiracy.
It's really weird how they think.
Thanks for the response.
Chemisse
(30,813 posts)And I don't want to believe it.
But Romney's son somehow owns part of the company that makes them.
And the company came to Ohio and added new software to them a few months ago.
Please tell me some data that will refute this worry of mine!
longship
(40,416 posts)And if a person thinks that any government audit wouldn't make sure votes were counted fairly, then I don't know what else to say to convince them.
Also, do people honestly believe that there wouldn't be a temptation to blow the whistle on some skulduggery?
Programmers are very intelligent people. Surely some on a team would be Democrats, or Independents. Many in tech are Libertarians who despise the Republicans.
But the conspiracy theorist insists that there is no incentive to blow the whistle on statewide voter fraud that would give the White House to a person you don't like?
The CT has answers to that. They are paid off. (I'd bet the NYTimes would pay more.) They would be killed if they told. (Seriously, murder on top of it?)
The CT has to instill increasing omniscience and omnipotence to the conspiracy in order to keep holding onto their beliefs. The problem with all these conspiracy theories is that they collapse under their own weight.
Okham's razor slices them right off.
merrily
(45,251 posts)The testimony was that rigging them would be incredibly easy.
BetterThanNoSN
(170 posts)You need to spend some time at Bradblog.com. The source codes are what has to be verified and these voting machine owners DON"T let you see the code, its proprietary you know!!
longship
(40,416 posts)I stick by my post. I appreciate your response, but must respectfully disagree.
If I am incorrect, I will be glad to defer to your opinion.
Chemisse
(30,813 posts)I would like to know how an electronic machine is audited, and when/how they are planning to do that.
If there are no backup ballots, how do they determine if something is rigged? It could be set to alter the voting ratios just on election day, with no signs of such tampering before or after.
My biggest criticism of all CTs is like yours: Anytime you have a group secret, there is somebody who just can't keep their mouth shut. It always comes out, sooner or later.
So I am hoping all goes well in Ohio.
LibertyBell7
(22 posts)I say to assume your concerns are all true, and maybe even worst than that Tagg Romney has some controlling interest in one of the major voting machine companies. Example: That there are maybe a couple dozen states where the people responsible for ensuring votes get counted are Corporazi, er, Republican, operatives.
What are we to do in the face of the fact these people are waging civil war against our democracy?
We must flood the poles. We have to literally swamp their efforts to usurp our collective will.
Where they can steal a percent here and a point or two there, we must get 5-8-10% more bodies to the poles, ignore (or report to the police crying "voter intimidation" Corporazi brownshirts like those <i>True the Vote</i> thugs, and stand in lines for as many hours as it takes to cast your ballots.
We have to eclipse the 2008 turnout, and erase the shame of the 2010 turnout.
In unity, strength. We control our destiny here.
Chemisse
(30,813 posts)whether they are voter suppression laws, workplace intimidation, or voter machine tinkering.
Everybody to the polls!!
Jennicut
(25,415 posts)You better back that up with some solid evidence for me to believe. The MSM naturally does like a horse race as it is more interesting for them to cover then one in the bag. Are they evil? No, just hacks.
GeorgeGist
(25,321 posts)FiveGoodMen
(20,018 posts)Really?
Why is it for sure?
What do you know that you're not telling us?
(Because if you DON'T know something that you're not telling us, then you certainly don't know that your "one thing" is for sure)
SemperEadem
(8,053 posts)these assholes have gone off the deep end.
Drunken Irishman
(34,857 posts)I think this has its roots in the '96 election. The race was never tight ... Clinton led Dole for the entire length of the race and because of it, interest in the campaign was very low. No one cared. No one really feared a Dole presidency and most supported Clinton enough to give him a second term. There was no news to the campaign. No stories about how close it was going to be, as was the case four years prior in '92, so, the media was left focusing on a race no one gave a damn about. When the polls closed, and the votes were counted, '96 saw the worst turnout of any modern election in American history.
So, in 2000, they readjusted and came back with a stronger narrative that the race was going to be the race to end all races. Sure, the fact it was close helped, but even before it was close, even before things came down to the final days, the media was still pushing this idea that the election would be closer than close. They did the same thing in '04 and, more impressively, I guess, in '08. The final days of the race weren't spent on talking about Obama's lead ... it was spent on talking about how McCain could still win.
http://pjmedia.com/blog/ten-reasons-why-mccain-could-still-win/
http://www.salon.com/2008/10/13/obama_69/
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2008/10/29/54972/mccain-could-still-win-if-everything.html
http://www.redstate.com/dan_perrin/2008/10/28/the-seven-reasons-mccain-palin-are-a-lock-to/
It's what they do. It's how they keep people interested. They want people watching the returns on election night anticipating a very close race because if people think Obama has this in the bag, what's the point of even watching?
longship
(40,416 posts)ProudProgressiveNow
(6,129 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)my local broadcast news outlet flashed a screen indicating (President) Obama - 49%/romney - 49%, then went on to talk about "this is the closest race in recent history."
So I posted to their website: 49%/49%? How about looking at the polling of Nate Silver ... a pollster that actually uses a transparent methodology; rather than wishful thinking?
Jennicut
(25,415 posts)Stupid hack journalists.
dsharp88
(487 posts)Blue Idaho
(5,049 posts)Hey Chris just because you say it doesn't make it so...
TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)It's fun, and easy.
CarmanK
(662 posts)We have to be careful, bec we know that OH is not going to get a FAIR count of votes. It is REPUG distorted and discounted. They will do anything. The next big effort is for DEMS to get HUSTED out of office. He can go be a lobbyist for KOCHS etc... but he is UNFIT for public service and the power that goes along with representing the ppl.
EC
(12,287 posts)I'm beginning to see tension on MSNBC between Tweety and some of these guys. Yesterday Todd and Tweety were at each other - you could just tell - at one point Tweety even said he didn't want to get into a fight. So all those losers are doing what they can to promote the stiff, while Tweety and the other progressives seem to be making them mad by asking them why they would want to help the repubs.
merrily
(45,251 posts)every chance they get.
The people who disgust me most are the ones who pretend objectivity.
Chemisse
(30,813 posts)Todd was at a loss to respond.
bagimin
(1,333 posts)has to say on tv but this is just nuts.
drynberg
(1,648 posts)DFW
(54,410 posts)Some right-wing nut blasted me immediately under my comment, so I know I hit home.
I asked if Cillizza was taking his words from Luntz and his Christmas bonus from Rupert Murdoch, and said that if I had a wooden Pinocchio for every lie Romney had told this year, I'd have enough wood to open a supply depot for IKEA.
ropercarmine
(24 posts)chris seems to be andrea greenspan's little pet
radiclib
(1,811 posts)A buffoonish mouthpiece for Beltway, horse-race obsessed nonsense.
His clownish appearances on Hardball usually provide an opportunity for a bathroom break.
MrModerate
(9,753 posts)And so the chance of a pony materializing out of thin air has increased?
Damn, I wish that worked for me.