Yes, voting for the lesser of two evils IS how we got here! That is absolutely correct!

[Actor]

Voting for the lesser of two evils, dont wanna do it, you say?


Yes, it is how we got

1. ACA

2. Women's reproductive healthcare rights

3. 40 hour work week

4. Social Security, Medicare

5. Jobs, thank you President Obama

6. Civil rights for ALL , not just white people


You are welcome to add to the list.


I only use the term "evil" because others are, there is no evil, only wrong. Obama is a good guy who is part of a very corrupt and fucked up system, and so he has to play the game as they all do. He is not evil, but he is part of a system and yet was still able to be very successful.

If you are unable to acknowledge my point here, then there really is nothing else to say to each other. Only liberals and democrats who understand what is at stake will understand my point.

[Merryland]

1. I thought the American Revolution was how we got here. eom

[yallerdawg]

2. "Who wants less evil?"

"When you have principles and dignity," Satan said.

[Kelvin Mace]

32. Who needs less evil when you can simply rebrand overt evil as "pragmatism"?

[ViseGrip]

3. Your argument no longer holds water, and here's why:

2. Women's reproductive healthcare rights - so many states have chipped that away, the fight is within the states elections. So holding my nose there did not work.

3. 40 hour work week - really? you still have that? I work two jobs, so I don't get their healthcare, and I'm a contractor who has to pay 100% of the employee tax! That is slave labor at an hourly rate! Who hires for 40 hrs a week? Many states no longer do!
Again, the states are chipping away at this. Hmmm....wondering if I have to hold my nose again, as I must fight this in our state house.

4. Social Security, Medicare - Bill Clinton had a deal with New Gingrich in his lame duck to PRIVATIZE SOCIAL SECURITY! Monica saved us!

So, this is not a race you have to hold your nose. The court, the court!

This is a 30 yr old stale argument, as states have chipped away at all the rights that you write about. So I'm over holding my nose for federal office, and being miserable with our electeds.

I'm going to vote for whomever makes congress more miserable.
That ain't Hillary! Why should the voters always be the miserable ones?

[yallerdawg]

7. When the "lessor of two evils" vetoes Congressional legislation...

that would nationalize the horrors of rightwing policy you describe, how can you not make the choice?

If you think this nation is ready to elect a self-described socialist, is this the same nation you describe as having a profound rightwing drift?

You advocate "more evil" when the real world makes you "miserable?"

[ViseGrip]

37. No, the status quo on trade, jobs, college, climate, healthcare, and Hillary.

Not gonna do a damn thing. She has taken too much special interest money, like the rest. How do you think we got here with the lesser of two evil shit we have all the time? From taking dirty dollars.

NO HILLARY!

[WhiteTara]

10. It's time to work for down ballot Democrats

and stop concentrating on just the presidential elections. There are local elections every year and only a very small percentage of voters bother with them. This is where federal campaigns begin, is at the local level.

[Hortensis]

42. Hey, yes! The Kochs et ilk have been investing

like crazy to defeat Democrats on hundreds of downballot races. They're very satisfied that the SBSers and Republicans so foolishly blame the Democrats for 30 years of their and the GOP's work. Hardly an accident, of course. Seeds long ago planted and carefully tended.

[WhiteTara]

47. As activists in the 70s we made a fatal

mistake of thinking that we ended the war and that we could live our lives. The republicons on the other hand, took that as the occasion to build their stranglehold on local governments and we are reaping the results of those years now. Unfortunately, it seems that the BoB activists don't understand any better than we did and we will all suffer for these mistakes.

[mikehiggins]

4. Well THAT is a crock

Why would you think any vote for the lesser evil resulted in those results?

3, 4 and 6 didn't occur because people voted for the less evil choice. They resulted because people voted for leadership.

1 and 5 were not the result of voting for a lesser evil. In fact the voters chose someone they felt would be better for this nation than his Primary opponent in 2008. Had they not done so we'd still be talking about the McCain/Palin White House.

2? A long, strange trip that hasn't ended yet, despite faith that Roe v Wade settled everything.

I suggest you look a little closer at history.

[Zen Democrat]

5. I don't think either one is evil (at least not like Cheney), but I characterize this as the

Evil of Two Lessers. It's evil that we have such a poor choice this year between two New Yorkers who have bigger egos than hearts.

[Actor]

8. And yet you do have that choice ONLY, those two. Either one votes for one or they dont, and

if you dont one is supporting the other.

It is so crucial people not act with emotion right now, Donald Trump will cause irreparable, possibly life ending harm

[baldguy]

6. And how we DON'T make progress is beleiving the "lesser of two evils" lie.

That type of stupidity gave us Bush II.

[WhiteTara]

11. For that we can thank Nadir for using that meme over

and over and over.

[Zorra]

9. No. Real Democrats brought us Social Security, Medicare, women's reproductive

choices, civil rights, and the 40 hr work week.

Third Way lesser of two evils DINOs still called themselves Republicans back when real Democrats forced those basic rights into existence. If DLC/Third Way had not taken control of the Democratic party, we'd have the rest pf these basic rights today.

With the exception of President Obama and his administration in the area of social justice, most especially with regard to LGBT rights, pitifully little social and economic progress has been made for minorities/working people by those calling themselves Democrats since the DINO coup of the Democratic Party during the Reagan era. It's shameful. We must set higher standards for our leaders other than to simply be "the lesser of two evils".

We need really great Democratic leaders who want great things for our people, not corporate tools whose only reason for being president is to increase the profits and power of the 1%.

These are the things that great Democratic Party leaders do, and try to do:

President Franklin D. Roosevelt's message to the Congress of the United States on the State of the Union, January 11, 1944:

"It is our duty now to begin to lay the plans and determine the strategy for the winning of a lasting peace and the establishment of an American standard of living higher than ever before known. We cannot be content, no matter how high that general standard of living may be, if some fraction of our people—whether it be one-third or one-fifth or one-tenth—is ill-fed, ill-clothed, ill-housed, and insecure.

This Republic had its beginning, and grew to its present strength, under the protection of certain inalienable political rights—among them the right of free speech, free press, free worship, trial by jury, freedom from unreasonable searches and seizures. They were our rights to life and liberty.

As our nation has grown in size and stature, however—as our industrial economy expanded—these political rights proved inadequate to assure us equality in the pursuit of happiness.

We have come to a clear realization of the fact that true individual freedom cannot exist without economic security and independence. “Necessitous men are not free men.”[3] People who are hungry and out of a job are the stuff of which dictatorships are made.

In our day these economic truths have become accepted as self-evident. We have accepted, so to speak, a second Bill of Rights under which a new basis of security and prosperity can be established for all—regardless of station, race, or creed.

Among these are:

The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;
The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;
The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;
The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;
The right of every family to a decent home;
The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;
The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;
The right to a good education.

All of these rights spell security. And after this war is won we must be prepared to move forward, in the implementation of these rights, to new goals of human happiness and well-being.

America's own rightful place in the world depends in large part upon how fully these and similar rights have been carried into practice for all our citizens. For unless there is security here at home there cannot be lasting peace in the world."

President John F. Kennedy:

“I hope that every American, regardless of where he lives, will stop and examine his conscience about this and other related incidents. This nation was founded by men of many nations and backgrounds. It was founded on the principle that all men are created equal, and that the rights of every man are diminished when the rights of one man are threatened.”

“Today, we are committed to a worldwide struggle to promote and protect the rights of all who wish to be free. … It ought to to be possible, in short, for every American to enjoy the privileges of being American without regard to his race or his color.”

“Difficulties over segregation and discrimination exist in every city, in every state of the union, producing in many cities a rising tide of discontent that threatens the public safety. Nor is this a partisan issue. In a time of domestic crisis, men of good will and generosity should be able to unite regardless of party or politics. This is not even a legal or legislative issue alone. It is better to settle these matters in the courts than on the streets, and new laws are needed at every level, but law alone cannot make men see right. We are confronted primarily with a moral issue. It is as old as the Scriptures and is as clear as the American Constitution.”

“The heart of the question is whether all Americans are to be afforded equal rights and equal opportunities; whether we are going to treat our fellow Americans as we want to be treated.”

“This is one country. It has become one country because all of us and all the people who came here had an equal chance to develop their talents. We cannot say to ten percent of the population that you can’t have that right; that your children cannot have the chance to develop whatever talents they have; that the only way that they are going to get their rights is to go in the street and demonstrate. I think we owe them and we owe ourselves a better country than that.”

Some quotes from Martin Luther King, Jr

"The hope of a secure and livable world lies with disciplined nonconformists who are dedicated to justice, peace and brotherhood."

"I submit that an individual who breaks a law that conscience tells him is unjust, and who willingly accepts the penalty of imprisonment in order to arouse the conscience of the community over its injustice, is in reality expressing the highest respect for the law."

"There are some instances when a law is just on its face and unjust in its application. For instance, I was arrested Friday on a charge of parading without a permit. Now, there is nothing wrong with an ordinance which requires a permit for a parade, but when the ordinance is used to preserve segregation and to deny citizens the First Amendment privilege of peaceful assembly and peaceful protest, then it becomes unjust.

Of course, there is nothing new about this kind of civil disobedience. It was seen sublimely in the refusal of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego to obey the laws of Nebuchadnezzar because a higher moral law was involved. It was practiced superbly by the early Christians, who were willing to face hungry lions and the excruciating pain of chopping blocks before submitting to certain unjust laws of the Roman Empire. To a degree, academic freedom is a reality today because Socrates practiced civil disobedience.

We can never forget that everything Hitler did in Germany was "legal" and everything the Hungarian freedom fighters did in Hungary was "illegal." It was "illegal" to aid and comfort a Jew in Hitler's Germany. But I am sure that if I had lived in Germany during that time, I would have aided and comforted my Jewish brothers even though it was illegal. If I lived in a Communist country today where certain principles dear to the Christian faith are suppressed, I believe I would openly advocate disobeying these anti-religious laws ...

I have no fear about the outcome of our struggle in Birmingham, even if our motives are presently misunderstood. We will reach the goal of freedom in Birmingham and all over the nation, because the goal of America is freedom. Abused and scorned though we may be, our destiny is tied up with the destiny of America. Before the Pilgrims landed at Plymouth, we were here. Before the pen of Jefferson scratched across the pages of history the majestic word of the Declaration of Independence, we were here ...If the inexpressible cruelties of slavery could not stop us, the opposition we now face will surely fail. We will win our freedom because the sacred heritage of our nation and the eternal will of God are embodied in our echoing demands ...

http://www.quotationspage.com/quotes/Martin_Luther_King_Jr.

Bernie Sanders:

[randome]

15. Quotes from the last century are not necessarily germane to today.

Our choices should be based on what's right in front of us, not on what someone in the 20th century said or did.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[Dem2]

12. We can't sit here and criticize the Republicans for not compromising

... and then be a bunch of uncompromising fools in our own process. People who don't learn to compromise usually end up in jail.

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. Let me tell you something

That ain't going nowhere any more. Neither is fear. You are heavily misunderstanding the mood of the country. 2008 should have woken tje system...2016 will.

[Actor]

17. So give nuclear weapons to a known narcissist sociopath who will use them

to avenge his comb over.

Fucking BRILLIANT

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. So give fucking nuclear weapons to an outsider

Since his party was not able to put down that brush fire. You are not understanding at all...the mood of the country, and the quiet desperation. Trump is a fascist. But your party is willing to put in the ultimate insider in a base revolt. That is what I call rank stupidity. And that is what I call stupidity beyond belief.

One under investigation to boot.

[Actor]

19. My party?

Why are you on a board called Democratic Underground?

[nadinbrzezinski]

26. Yes, I am one of those silly independents you will need in November.

I have voted consistently Democratic my whole voting life. But I have come to realize that my vote depends on what the central tabulator decides Still nice deep response YES YOUR PARTY is putting up an extremely weak, and quite compromised standard bearer in the year of the base revolt. YOUR PARTY BASE in full fledged revolt, and by the way, I still get to vote on June 7, again, who the central tabulator decides I voted for.

I do not think votes anymore, are counted the way they are cast, That idiocy started in 2000 by the way

But your party and the other guys don't give a shit about that either.
Why? The elites benefit from it.

So yes, you are doing all in your power, even if you do not understand why and by that I mean you ACTOR poster, to give nuclear weapons to Trump GOOD GOING DEMOCRATS!

Historians someday will not be kind.

[Actor]

28. I only care about one thing. One.

Not complicated.

I have the opportunity to keep nuclear weapons out of the hands of a sociopath narcissist.

[nadinbrzezinski]

39. And if you do not get the dynamics why that threat, and it is a threat is going to fall on

deaf ears this year, I cannot help you. But I will try

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511994370

Also, here is a pro tips, and I cover politics... and this is as basic as poli sci 101. DO not tell people what to vote against, but tell them what to vote for. The former leads to alienation and actually suppresses the vote. This is a lesson that many local democrats understand, but somehow forget up the ladder.

As I said, I cover this shit, and pols who run on look at the other guy, how ugly and horrible, tend to do worst than those who go, ok this is what I am going to do, and how I am going to help you. Locally people would like to know what democrats are going to do about silly shitty stuff like income inequality. The nuclear codes are nowhere in their day to day thinking, unless they are serving in the US military and they happen to actually be part of the nuclear program.

Another pro tip, Trump is telling them what he is going to do... he won't do it, there are many reasons why he won't, but he is telling them what he is going to do. And he does have an actual philosophy, as weird and odd as that sounds to silly partisans, This is one reasons the Rs did not put that brush fire down. And you guys are barely succeeding with yours, but that party base revolt is not over either.

[Matt_in_STL]

38. You have been here since Brock o' Clock and are questioning why a member with 151K posts is here.

You might want to check your privilege at the door. If you truly are a Democrat, you will know that there are many different types of Democrats and those who vote for Democrats. This isn't the Republican hive mind.

[hobbit709]

14. If you're willing to open your mind a little I suggest you read "Listen, Liberal" by Thomas Frank.

[Actor]

16. Open my mind?

IDK where to start.

This has NOTHING to do with his point.

If you haven't figured that out yet, there is probably no hope you ever will.

This is ONLY about STOPPING a narcissist sociopath from getting his hands on nuclear weapons.

This is about nothing else

Do you understand?

[Actor]

21. Did you just discover him? Did you just discover liberal politics?

This isnt working, you simply arent understanding.

When you figure out what this and all elections are about, get back to me.

In the interim Frank and myself and other long time liberals will work to get our party back from the centrists, while showing up to vote in ALL elections against republicans.

[hobbit709]

48. You've been here all of a month and you ask that?

[Actor]

49. That isnt an answer. Either you are a seasoned political junkie and voter and

active participator or you are not.

If you are, you are amazed that you have to argue with alleged liberals about what to do on election day

[hobbit709]

50. I know you weren't with me in Chicago in 68.

You weren't with me in 1972, 1976, 1980, 1984, 1988, 1992, 2000, 2004, 2008, 2012 and all the other elections in between.

So once again I question a newbie spouting the talking points

[Actor]

51. NOBODY who even remembers that doesnt RACE to the polls on election day to vote

for the nominee.

Even the most cynical, liberal friends of mine like one who is kind of famous.

He hates Hillary, but will do everything in his power to stop Trump.

[hobbit709]

52. Who were you in your previous incarnation?

[Actor]

53. Thanks for not debating what I just said, even you have to admit that it is true.

[hobbit709]

55. you don't want debate. You want total agreement with yourself .

[Actor]

57. Exactly, I dont want to debate whether or not it is OK to let Trump become our president.

You get a star for that one.

[hobbit709]

58. I don't want Trump to be president. That's why I'm not for Hillary.

[seabeyond]

20. Welcome to our Democratic board.... Rollin eyes.

[Actor]

22. I am surprised so many people who say they are democrats are unable to understand

what is at stake.

[seabeyond]

23. I agree, just not the way you mean. For example, the very stupid, lesser of two evils.

[Actor]

24. I am not sure I know what you mean. My point is there is a drastic

difference between the candidates Trump and Clinton and to NOT vote for Clinton is very destructive.

If she is the nominee, that is.

[seabeyond]

25. Ignore EVERYTHING I posted to you.

Here is the thing, we get so much of the stupid, that I stop when I hear things like, .... voting for the lesser evil. Yes.

I finished reading your piece and I think you and I totally agree with one another. I may want more, I may want different, but, the two parties are not like the other. We are progressing forward. Obama has been a solid president.

Thanks, and sorry. MY bad.

[Actor]

27. IT's all good. Obama is actually one of the most successful of all time.

History will love him, but current day he is treated poorly but outright racists.

America is still a very racist place where white privilege and supremacy reign.

[seabeyond]

29. I agree. What is interesting about Obama is he has done so much

in very quiet ways. He has his huge too, that too many of us forget. But, a lot of his accomplishments is in small doses. That matters too. That is still moving us forward.

[jack_krass]

68. Same team same team! :)

[Trajan]

30. You lie

NOT true for half of that list ...

How can I tell you are a Hillary Supporter?

Is it the lying? ... Could be ..

But with THAT fallacious screed, you have earned a very special place in Iggyville, where the liars and exaggerators go ....

[Actor]

31. No, I am a Bernie supporter and long time liberal. But many here are new to this

and are confused.

It is OK, I understand.

Calling me a liar is something I would expect from right wingers.

It is immature and unproductive, but I will take solace in knowing I will do more for the liberal cause before lunch than you will do in a lifetime with that kind of attitude.

[Trajan]

33. If you lied

Then calling you a liar is apropo ...

This list is a travesty of lies ...

Enjoy that Brock money .... It will be short lived ...

Gone

[Actor]

34. Again, your behavour should not be tolerated on a board of liberals, it embarrasses me

I am not sure why it is tolerated here, but oh well.

[Actor]

36. At any reasonable cost. agreed

[beachbumbob]

41. Compromise and pragmatism is the only path...i am afraid to burst

Sanders supporters bubble but he has never been willing to do either...and is much more aligned with tea party mentality of "my way or the highway" ...them the facts... The reality...sanders is the next to the last person in America...trump being the first...to be able to have meaningful impact on America...

[d_legendary1]

43. The lesser of two evils didn't bring us change

People who wanted to improve their lives brought us change. Those people were beaten, arrested, and some died for the things we take for granted. To state that the lesser evils gave us all of this is spitting at the graves of those who have been through hell during their lifetime.

The lesser of two evils has chipped away at everything they fought for. We had a president who signed NAFTA and managed to move great paying jobs overseas. We have the ACA instead of a public option (which Obama promised to fight for but never delivered). We have Dodd-Frank which does jack with regard to regulating the banks (see how many fees a person accumulates if they don't have direct deposit on their accounts). The 40 hour work week has been replaced with contract to hire schemes.

We used to call the lesser of two evils the third way and we're sick of it. Its hard to believe that a Bernie Supporter would embrace this crap.

[nc4bo]

45. They don't.

They especially don't if they've listened to Sanders' speeches or read his campaign platform.

[d_legendary1]

46. I kinda figured this person lived up to their name

No Bernie supporter listens to his message and starts spouting Clintonesque view points on how good we got it now. The cognitive dissonance is strong within this post.

[Thinkingabout]

54. Now that we have seen evil in Dick Cheney and Donald Trump, it should be enough.

[Hoyt]

56. Not sure we always know who is most evil. Civil Rights Act and Medicare enacted under Johnson.

But he would likely not have been re-elected. I'm not even sure FDR was that well thought of before being elected.

[ThePhilosopher04]

59. It's how we got NAFTA, will likely be force-fed the TPP, start wars

and foment terrorism around the globe, funnel everyone's Healthcare through private insurance that is usually woefully inadequate ... have failing public schools which are underfunded and bein prioritized less and less every day. I could go on.

[HassleCat]

60. I disagree

Several of the accomplishments you list came to pass because people enthusiastically supported progressive Democrats and New Deal Democrats. At various times, our party boldly nominated candidates who pushed hard for change. Lyndon Johnson, for example, worked like hell for civil rights, even though he knew he was sacrificing the South to Republicans, and even though he used the N-word when referring to black people. Obama is successful, but he could have been far more successful if we had not allowed our party to put him in such a tight bind on so many issues.

[Actor]

61. You disagree...

Oh for krist fucking sake, how did I know that!

This is becoming comical.

[HassleCat]

70. Huh? Do you have me confused with someone else? (eom)

[dchill]

62. That is a list of six piss-poor compromises.

They all should be far more robust and representative of a true democracy, not a corporate republic. We need to end privatization, not extend it.

[Actor]

63. This is a waste of time.

You would do away with them all since they are not perfect, so we have very different agendas.

[dchill]

64. That's not what I said, Mr Brock.

Go away.

[Actor]

65. Not Brock, and you pretty much said exactly that. Dont pretend to be a democratic socialist

liberal and then say you will risk Trump being president by not voting for Hillary.

Cant be done.

[dchill]

66. Learn to read.

Go away.

[jack_krass]

67. new strategy Hillary not as bad as the opposition

Trying to prop Hillary up as anything more than a "lesser evil" is a hard sell IMO so this probably isn't a bad idea.

[Actor]

69. What are you doing on a liberal board?

[Vinca]

71. But you have to admit. It is sad to be going into a general election and the choice is

sane or insane. Lesser of two evils doesn't begin to describe this situation.