Say what you will about Clinton, but she rigged the hell out of the machine

[ProfessorPlum]

I'm not very keen on Clinton era policies, especially the ones that hobbled welfare, allowed telecommunications to coalesce around the wealthiest, deregulated banking, and demanded the continuing silence of gay military personnel.

And, I think this country needs to get back to FDR-style, New Deal regulations and social policy. Big time. As quickly as possible.

And so, my support for Sanders in the primary was a foregone conclusion. As I've watched him go from nearly-unknown to a candidate who will command very nearly half of the pledged delegates at the convention, I'm pleased at the way he has highlighted the need for more social justice and less income inequality, more banking regulation, more opportunities for young people.

But I have to say, I'm even more in awe of the way that Clinton and the Clinton organization rigged the living shit out of this election, to the point where there was never a chance for an upstart contender like Sanders.

She pre-bribed the state DNC organizations and the superdelegates with her technically-legal kickback scheme for donations from the super wealthy. She contrived to coordinate a debate schedule with her flunky at the head of the DNC which guaranteed low viewership, stacking the deck for her front-runner advantage. She pre-bribed herself by accepting huge personal gifts from the economic masters of the country, guaranteeing that they understood where her allegiance lay. She has taken advantage of the corporate media's absolute bias towards the status quo to praise and perpetuate the status quo. Her connections to foreign governments, corporate power, and celebrity were all greased by the Clinton Foundation, to ensure the corrupt system that the elite will find her palatable.

She entered the race as the 800-pound gorilla, and has used the corruption of the system to maintain that advantage fairly well.

She left nothing to chance this time around. The upstarts, like one-term senator Barack Obama, would get no breathing room, and the entire DNC apparatus would be rigged against them and for her.

It speaks to a certain ruthless, crushing, determination that her will be done, no matter the will of the electorate. And skill at organization, consensus building, coercion, glad-handing and strong-arming.

Say what you will about Clinton, but she rigged the hell out of this corrupt, fetid, money-worshipping machine that is our electoral process.

At least we will get a candidate that has some skill at thinking ahead, using power and money to get her way, and knows how to move among the elite to achieve some things (even if it is stamping down on the democratizing spirit of the country).

[puffy socks]

2. Sore losers

make up the most egregious conspiracies!

Bernie lost fair and square.

[Land of Enchantment]

35. ^

646 total posts: +6
29 days of membership: +3
20 or more posts in the last 90 days: +20
Not a Star member: +0
2 posts hidden in 90 days: -40
TOTAL: 0

[MattP]

52. Funny coming from a member since Feb

Going after members for not being here a long time is weak when you haven't been here but a minute yourself

[arikara]

96. Another

Joined middle of April - check
600-700 posts - check
Inflammatory posts - check
Strange structuring of sentences - check

And last but not least, what about that user name - LOL

[notadmblnd]

41. Curious- your choice of words

I guess you just couldn't bring yourself to say that "Hillary won fair and square."

Yeah, I know, that just doesn't feel right.

[puffy socks]

66. No, I just happened to post it that way because Bernie supporters

claim he hasn't lost and has a path to the nomination, or he lost elections due to rigging. But of course people will read what they want into a post.


Here ya go!

"Hillary won fair and square."






That felt right and fantastic!!!

[Yurovsky]

70. And she's the worst candidate the Democrtaic party could run vs Trump...

No other Dem has negatives nearly as high as hers. Plus that voice is fingernails on a blackboard for anyone but HilBots.

[puffy socks]

87. Yeah right

that's why she's beating Bernie.

[senz]

101. Read the OP. Understand it this time.

Go on, you can do it.

[Bohemianwriter]

107. How come Bernie is the crowd gatherer and Hillary not...

And what meaks you think that people willing to stand in line for hours to see Bernie are too lazy to stop by at the polls?

And do you think that only a small fraction of the entire voting base is legit - the CORPdems claiming Hilary embodies FDR while Bernie voters aren't "real democrats" whose votes can be purged at convenience?

[CorporatistNation]

111. Oh, You Are SOOO Right... There Is No One In American History Like Her... It Is Frank Testimony To

HOW FAR WE HAVE FALLEN AS A NATION! ANYONE WHO THINKS FOR ONE SECOND THAT THIS IS A REPRESENTATIVE DEMOCRACY IS FEASTING ON FETID POPCORN!

She may well end up as the nominee... but what is that when the people are so disgusted with the purposefully contrived "process" that they will not vote for the "inevitable one." then

[leveymg]

80. I suppose you get extra points for applauding yourself and waving the flag. nt

[puffy socks]

86. I'm applauding Hillarys nomination

and it so pains so many people here.

I like smilies, what's it to you?

[leveymg]

90. You are applauding political Kabuki Theater.

This has all been to keep the party mechanism in place while they decide what the hell to do about Hillary's security clearance violations. Now that they think the nomination is locked up, the FBI report will come out. I hope they have a workable, orderly succession plan in place, or we will end up with President Trump. Gawd forbid.

[puffy socks]

92. Please.

"This has all been to keep the party mechanism in place while they decide what the hell to do about Hillary's security clearance violations."

And you know this because?


Bernie's Fanatical Supporters

[leveymg]

97. I know this because that's how it has to work. The facts

and the law dictate that she violated several felony statutes by mishandling classified materials and not reporting the same violations of others. This has been public knowledge since March, 2015. The party leadership would have had to act to develop contingencies and implement a succession plan.

And this surprises you, why?

[onecaliberal]

3. K&R

[djean111]

4. Precisely.

With Hillary as president, we will never have chance, either.

Third Way and MIC win. Big time. Not with my cooperation, though.

[-none]

5. If this is how Hillary runs her campaign, then how will she govern?

Logic dictates that she will carry on and govern the same way, to the detriment of the country, the Middle East and South America.

[J_J_]

69. exactly! I remember too well what Bush did with his stolen election

nt

[Katashi_itto]

6. It will be the first corporate Presidency?

[ViseGrip]

11. Ah, no, Bill's was the first, and he said so! Welcome the DLC and centurists who take corp cash.

[ProfessorPlum]

12. You're way late on that

If you think that Reagan, both Bushes, Nixon, Clinton I, hell ,go back to Harding - go back to the robber baron era presidents- the government has always been under the sway of business. We've invaded countries just to make life better for a few companies.

Don't be naive about where Clinton falls in among them.

[VulgarPoet]

23. We're just hard charging right back into the Roaring 20's, robber baron era.

"Those who don't learn from history", and all. It's all just a BOHICA situation all over again.

[FlatBaroque]

7. and she is still going to lose

[pangaia]

8. As we used to say, TOO MCH, MAN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BRAVO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ViseGrip]

9. Election fraud in MA,IL,NY,DE,MD,AZ,NV & now KY make Hillary an illegitimate nominee

For sure.....and she is going to lose. No one EVER won with her numbers, and NO ONE EVER had those negative numbers in the past!

Only the machines can make her win.

[dchill]

15. +1,000,001

[Flying Squirrel]

22. Makes sense, since she's basically a machine herself.

I would like to know just how she got the incredible luck to be in position to be facing a GE candidate with equally high negative numbers.

This cannot be coincidence.

[2banon]

42. TPTB will make that happen... they can't bank on Trump

With the Clinton's back in, they'll be riding high on the hog with no obstructions to amass even greater wealth, MIC will have more $$$$ for their War Plans, and on and on.

[2cannan]

71. As with everything they have both sides covered so they win with either one. nt

[kwassa]

88. IT'S A CONSPIRACY!!!!!!####!!!!!! $$$$!!!

Couldn't possibly be just, you know, votes.

[reformist2]

91. It could be more votes. But it's not. Her victory is a fraud.

[TDale313]

10. And yet with all that

Nearly half the party supporyed 74 year old nearly unknown socialist. In large part cause they don't like the way the game is rigged.

As has been said, she's the best candidate for the system we have. Bernie's the best candidate for the system we should have.

If/when she gets the nomination the struggle continues to fix our broken system. It's a long game. It'll take years and many election cycles most likely, but we have to move in that direction. The status quo is not sustainable.

[ProfessorPlum]

13. Agreed. Well said

[pmorlan1]

33. Well Said

I agree with you and ProfessorPlum.

[2banon]

43. Well put!

As has been said, she's the best candidate for the system we have. Bernie's the best candidate for the system we should have.

[DRI]

14. We have a serious problem.

Hillary is a terrible candidate. Bernie has energy, fires up the base, has the ideas but was shut out in getting his message to the general Democratic voter in the fall by the DNC and the Hillary machine. Unfortunately I do not see a way Bernie can win.

Now in three polls this week, NBC, FOX, and Rassmussen Trump is leading or tied with Clinton. The worst news is that Clinton in all three polls worse with men than Trump with women!!! She also is trailing Trump by eight to ten points with white women!

It is my belief that once the primaries are over many of the Bernie supporters who may be responding to a Trump/Clinton poll today are protesting and responding Trump will come back to Clinton but many may still not vote. This would be bad not just for Clinton but the .democratic party candidates down the ballot. Why the hell does Wasserman-Schultz and the DNC not seem to care and continue to attack Bernie!

[2banon]

47. Yes, there is a serious problem, she polls badly, and always has, but TPTB will fix that

come November, I really don't think they want Trump. With the Clintons back in the WH, they can breath easily and continue with amassing greater wealth at the expense of the 99%.. With Trump, he's too much of a loose cannon for their interests. Clinton is a sure thing for them.

They'll make sure the machines flip for her.

I've been sorta thinking Trump was always just a "cut out", but it appears it's gone to his head.

[LondonReign2]

74. Absolutely agree

As detestable as I find the Clinton-engineered Third Way takeover of the party by faux Democrats, it's hard to believe anyone could lose to Trump, particularly as the Republican cooperate types and their media will fall in solidly behind Hillary.

Blankfein has raised money for Hillary. She's their Golden Goose, Trump is uncontrollable.

[LonePirate]

16. No matter the will of the electorate? So far the electorate has put her in the lead.

Say what you want about her but she is not an unknown to the electorate. They know her and this far they have been voting for her in larger numbers than for Sanders.

[Lizzie Poppet]

45. A rather small cross-section of the electorate, though.

That's the entire point: what it takes to win a primary (full support of the party leadership, an advantageous primary schedule, and the media in your corner) doesn't necessarily apply to the GE. There are good reasons to believe Hillary is the far weaker GE candidate.

[ProfessorPlum]

48. excellent post

Clinton has all three of those things in spades (and so, good for her, I suppose - whether it is good for the rest of remains very much to be seen).

[book_worm]

17. Right, keep telling yourself that the candidate who is leading by over 3 million votes

rigged the system.

[pinebox]

18. You all trott that number out but in reality

it's a misnomer.

How many weren't allowed to vote in say NY because they had to switch their registration months prior?

Hillary IS the weaker candidate in a GE and all polls say that, ALL. She is popular among conservative Dems only and doesn't have the millenial or indy vote, the 2 biggest voting blocks in 'Murica.

Spin the numbers all you want in your favor but it doesn't change the facts.

[Katashi_itto]

21. +1000

[LondonReign2]

75. The more people see of Hillary, the less they like her

[blm]

19. Loves ya, PP, but common sense must prevail. Had it actually been rigged the primary would've ended

by mid-March.

The fairy tales being furthered sound to me no different than RW whiners insisting there is a liberal media rigged against them.

And I voted for Sanders last March.

[ProfessorPlum]

24. what fairy tales?

that DWS set the debate schedule to limit the exposure of all candidates, guaranteeing no media oxygen for the non-presumptive nominees?

that the rich can keep the letter of the law but not the spirit by donating to each and every state, allowing them to funnel that money up to the candidate at the top of the DNC and creating a kickback system to the state committees and the superdelegates?

The primary _WAS_ over in March, and well before that, because any nominating process was going to come down to the superdelegates in the end, and they are in the pocket of the machine. Only an insurmountable lead in pledged delegates would have allowed them to make a switch. And putting our most populous and in many ways most progressive state at the absolute, bitter end, ensured that the more progressive candidates could only come from behind, never lead.

She will win, in the end, and part of that can be attributed to the uneven field that she and the DNC have been putting together for years. That is smart politics on her part, from where I'm sitting, but it doesn't mean she didn't rig it.

[pmorlan1]

36. Yes!

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[blm]

50. Having attended many a county and state convention I know firsthand they aren't

the cesspools of corruption as imagined - they aren't competent enough for that. Heheh, usually those in charge were only voted in a few months earlier or within the past year, and they are doing the best they can with the rulebook as their guide. Some circumstances demand freelancing which usually does NOT end well for them or their further ambitions, if they had any.

I think what actually is going on is the more newly engaged participants were/are unfamiliar with the process, and kinda shocked by it - usually, well in my case, by how dull it can be. When primaries are still going on, though, it seems everyone is looking to throw a sharp elbow. The perpetrators/victimhood is hardly one-sided, though.

[Progressive dog]

20. Hillary and President Obama ran in 2008

and there was a huge turnout. Bernie runs against Hillary in 2016 and turnout drops. Hillary overwhelmingly wins votes in primaries, Bernie does better in caucuses.
If cheating took place, it's a lot easier to do in caucuses.
Then there is Nevada where Bernie fans ignored fairness, ignored rules to disrupt a legal Democratic convention, with pushing and shoving, yelling, obscenities, and graffiti on walls and claim they're being cheated by not being able to steal two whole delegates from Hillary. Then Bernie says they were "outraged".

[lakeguy]

34. 8 additional years of crushing voter id laws and the repeal of the

voting rights act is a large part of, or completely responsible for that drop in turnout.

[islandmkl]

112. nice version of the 'facts' re:Nevada...other than the stuff you left out...& what the videos prove,

or actually disprove, about all the 'violence' claims, etc.

it seems like all the ignoring of the rules was done by the local Dem PTB...

[amborin]

25. Hillary is incredibly corrupt

a vote for Hillary is a vote for endless war and the destruction of the last shreds of our democracy

[CrowCityDem]

26. Since most of the 'rigged' voting rules have been in place for decades, she must be a genius!

[ProfessorPlum]

30. you can show me where I said anything about voting rules

I'll be waiting.

[YouDig]

27. She got more votes. A lot more. Why did you leave that out of your conspiracy theory?

[ProfessorPlum]

31. the description was about why and how she got votes

and also how she will get the votes that truly matter, the superdelegates, in the end.

[Optimism]

44. It's a shame our votes here in Washington state ...

... which went overwhelmingly for Sanders, are not part of THE VOTES meme the trolls continuously spew. Mixing apple's and oranges to come up with that one, all to push their narrative.

I've voted the straight Dem ticket for nearly forty years now. I will NOT vote for Clinton under any circumstances this Fall, nor to re-elect the Superdelegates who say they'll vote to install her despite their constituents wishes. Playing the scary boogie man card is not enough. Based on the recent past, Hillary is the candidate most likely to start the next big war, either in the Middle East or S. America. A business opportunity and all, dontcha know.

We don't need friends of Netanyahu and Kissinger in such positions of power, thank you very much.

[pmorlan1]

28. All True

Now the question is how can we actually get her to fight for the rest of us now that she will have what she wants.

[ProfessorPlum]

29. yes, it is. That's where *our* political genius has to shine

by putting pressure on her and the corporate stooges that run things.

[Trajan]

32. Excellent OP

Very well spoken ... You speak for me ... Thanks

[cliffordu]

37. K&R

[LexVegas]

38. ...

[2banon]

39. Excellent Post!

[workinclasszero]

40. TL;DR version: wahhh!

My guy lost!

[LondonReign2]

77. You are an embodiment of Hillary's classiness

well done

[LanternWaste]

46. I'm in even more awe of people who attribute super-powers to her ability to be in seven precincts at

I'm in even more awe of people who attribute super-powers to her ability to be in seven precincts at once, disrupting each one single-handed.

(I think our allegations are equal in that neither cites objective sources, avoid objectivity in and of themselves, and dramatically fails to lay out the cases we present-- hence, both are mere allegations.)

[ProfessorPlum]

49. ?

care to translate what you are trying to write into something like a coherent expression of thought?

[BeyondGeography]

51. Not only that, she made sure Bernie mostly sucked at the debates

RIGGED.

[jeff47]

53. The problem is what she wants to move ahead with.

We don't need another ground war in the Middle East. But that's one of the things she wants.

[procon]

54. He's losing because voters don't vote for him.

He's in 2nd place because the voters just don't like him and the choose Hillary. Oh snap!

Maybe all those photos of angry, red faced, Sanders followers screaming at Hillary's people, scaring little kids, and the nasty things they say about women and the death threats... well, maybe that turns potential voters off?

All these fiction stories are like a pacifier, they soothe away the bitter truth. That may work for you, and maybe you really believe these contrived conspiracy theories about some nebulous plot to snatch Sanders victory away. The bad news remains, the numbers still point to his inevitable defeat.

[ProfessorPlum]

55. I'm curious as to what you think is a "fiction story"

that Clinton came to this primary determined to win? That she had strategized and planned to take advantage of her position where she could? That she used influence over the party machinery? That money has changed hands with implicit support for her as the nominee?

All those things are not only obviously true, they are smart, on her part, if she was serious about winning. Maybe you don't think she's that smart.

[procon]

68. If you're going to pose questions and answer them yourself,

I think you're a bit confused. When I challenged the OPs tiresome Bernie fiction story, did you mistakenly assume that translated to mean that I'm somehow against Hillary? Or did you just forget to add the flashy sarcasm thingy?

[ProfessorPlum]

73. "the OPs tiresome Bernie fiction story"

please explain

[procon]

81. Why bother?

I'm not a baby sitter.

[Fairgo]

93. You are my huckleberry though

[ProfessorPlum]

95. a relief to babies everywhere.

thanks for the thoughtful critique.

[mrdmk]

98. Good, just updated my IL

[snagglepuss]

56. HEAR! HEAR!

Well said.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

57. However, the well oiled machine is being clogged by toxic baggage.

See IWR vote, support for fracking and TPP, payoffs from banksters, negligence regarding emails, Ronald Reagan's "help" for gays, etc, etc, ad nauseum.

How many "mistakes" are allowed before the CYA statements don't cover her ass?

[Beacool]

58. Please, Sanders was never going to be the nominee.

He wasn't even a Democrat until he decided to use the party to gain media attention. Who in their right mind actually thought that the majority of Democrats were going to nominate a 75 year old (by election day) "democratic socialist", who spent his 40 years in politics as an Independent and assiduously criticized the party.

Give me a break.......

[ProfessorPlum]

60. Sanders is more of a Democrat than either of the Clinton's ever will be

and by that I mean, "champion of the common person".

"Who in their right mind"? About half of the Democratic primary electorate.

[Beacool]

65. More registered Democrats voted for Hillary and this is a Democratic primary,

not the Independents' primary.

[ProfessorPlum]

67. who said anything about independents?

also, thanks for pointing out the obvious.

except this "More registered Democrats voted for Hillary" is mostly not provable, because of caucuses. I think that it is likely to be true, barely, but that in the end after California it will be about half and half with Clinton having a slight edge. But again, because of caucuses, we'll never really know.

If you want to say "of the direct votes we can count", then that's true.

If you want to say "the results of the primaries and caucuses have given her a lead in pledged delegates", then that's true.

[kwassa]

59. "Rigged" is the new Bernie meme.

Just because Hillary has 3 million more votes couldn't possibly matter.

It was a conspiracy.

[ProfessorPlum]

62. Please give this "3 million votes" meme a rest

If you aren't counting caucus voters (and you can't), then that number doesn't mean anything.

And if by "conspiracy" you mean people working together to achieve a goal, then yes it is a conspiracy.

[workinclasszero]

83. 3 million more votes equals RIGGED

And this from people who swear they love democracy and voting.

[kwassa]

84. And how is that rigged?

This should be interesting.

[workinclasszero]

89. Ask a Berner

Its just sour grapes as far as Im concerned.

Im sure if Bernie was in Hillary's place there would be no rigged talk at all from them

[Blue_Tires]

61. Holy damn... It's almost like she wants to be president or something...

And if you think the Sanders campaign hasn't engaged in their own behind-the-scenes shadiness, there's nothing more I can tell you...

[ProfessorPlum]

63. That's pretty much my point

She wanted to win, and she used every advantage to game the system in her favor. It looks like it will certainly pay off for her when the superdelegates unimaginatively hand her the nomination at the convention. She came to win, and she crushed her opponents using bribery, influence, name recognition, the power of the status quo, and corporate pandering.

Let's hope she's as imaginative and Machiavellian when it comes to beating the piggish man-child.

[azmom]

82. Let's hope she is because many won't be

Voting for her.

[AgingAmerican]

64. All the cheating has been by the Hillary camp

And it is all documented

Sanders has not cheated, sorry, and you cannot name a single instance of same.

[postatomic]

72. Hmmm... I'm going with "in the Parlor with a Plastic Butter Knife"

Why so many words? All ya' need is to say Hillary is a Cheat and a Liar and you'll engage the warm blessings of the Hate Squad. What's that called when you state an untruth to prove the existence of another untruth?

No one ever expects the Hate Squad.

[mrdmk]

99. Hate Squad, another addition my IL

[postatomic]

113. The irony was obviously lost on you

Thanks for the IL.



No one expects the Hate Squad.

[HooptieWagon]

76. It's positively disgusting.

[ucrdem]

78. Also known as "winning."

Surprise, it takes a lot of legwork no matter how many birdies land on your podium.

[ProfessorPlum]

79. Legwork, and quid pro quo corruption

She had them both, by golly.

[kwassa]

85. Fantastical. And pure paranoid fantasy.

[ProfessorPlum]

94. indeed. It isn't like the head of the DNC is totally in the bag for her

[frustrated_lefty]

100. Not really impressed.

She didn't lay out some magnificent plan. She stood by her husband during the Lewinsky affair and you know she demanded payback. She deferred to Obama to become Secretary of State as a stepping stone to the presidency.

Even with the full support of a past president and a sitting president, she's barely cobbled a lead among pledged delegates.

[senz]

102. You summed up the whole hideous monstrosity very well.

Thank you.

[slipslidingaway]

103. Even with all the advantages, Sanders got 45% of the vote, when independents are ...

factored in he can win the GE.

After watching Trump get away with all kinds of stuff and sensing the anger against a Bush/Clinton nominee I am uncertain that she can come off as the winner. People see the unfairness and some are inclined to vote for it.

[uponit7771]

104. She rigged it against the black guy in 08 too? :rolleyes:@ConsummateWhining

[ProfessorPlum]

109. Read it again, carefully

Before you fail to rolleyes again.

[Califonz]

105. Seems like Americans need a crisis such as the Great Depression to vote their own best interests

Otherwise they fall for some celebrity corporate stooge.

[ProfessorPlum]

108. Even then most Americans seem to buy the propaganda

That it is some other poor person's fault.

[RBInMaine]

106. Another INSANE conspiracy theory post.

[ProfessorPlum]

110. Thanks for the thoughtful critique