2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumHere's How Romney Is Going to Steal Ohio.
Last edited Fri Nov 2, 2012, 09:06 PM - Edit history (2)
From:
Jim Hightower
10/31/2012
The "black box" e-voting machines that [many] Ohioans will use on November 6 are owned by
Hart Intercivic - but that disguises the real owner.
Last year Hart was taken over by an investment fund with the cryptic name of HIG Capital.
Peek into HIG and you'll find that of it's 22 American directors, 21 are donors to Mitt Romney's campaign, and a third of them had been money managers at Bain & Company, the hedge fund that gave Mitt his start in corporate plundering.
But the enigma within Ohio's machines goes even deeper than these cozy partisan ties suggest,
for HIG itself is largely owned by an inscrutable private equity creature called Solomere.
Solomere was started by Mitt Romney's oldest son, Tagg, and financed by Moma Ann Romney and Uncle Scott Romney, with Papa Mitt himself chipping in $10 million and personally pitching Solonere to other rich investors.
Tagg cloaks the fund's operations through a dark maze of offshore tax shelters.
And now, the son has slipped out of Solomere to be a top campaign manager for his father
One wonders if Tagg's campaign duties include "monitoring Ohio's voting machines.
Can the Romneys even spell conflict-of-interest?
The people's trust in the fairness of our democratic elections has already been severely eroded by the unlimited corporate cash flooding into the process, but what are we to make of a multimillionaire presidential candidate with secret financial and crony control of the machines that can decide the outcome in this key swing state?
I ask you: Of all the things the Romneys could invest in - why voting machines?
http://www.jimhightower.com/node/7875/
http://www.clevelandleader.com/node/19137/
Hart Intercivic voting machines will be used in Hamilton County, with 565,000 registered voters, as well as Williams County, with approximately 25,000 registered voters.
To sign Change.org Petition To Attorney General Holder: Investigate Tagg Romney owning voting machines in Ohio
http://www.change.org/petitions/attorney-general-eric-holder-investigate-tagg-romney-owning-voting-machines-in-ohio/
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alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)And so should everyone else.
Just letting you know, before I shitcan this stupidity.
Floyd_Gondolli
(1,277 posts)And my trash can runneth over.
Coyotl
(15,262 posts)I agree that the defeatist "stolen election" before it is even counted threads are crap, if not purposeful psychological warfare operations, but there is substance to this charge.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)Yeah, too much pessimism isn't a good thing. I've dealt with this issue myself, in fact. But there is legitimate concern that we could in fact lose both Ohio and Florida, which really would make things that much harder for us. We can win without either state but we've GOT to be careful.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)You think they arent trying to steal the election? Just wow.
Coyotl
(15,262 posts)Republicans are working to steal elections on EVERY front possible, some we don't even know about here on DU, no doubt!
Floyd_Gondolli
(1,277 posts)Instead of looking for ways to lose. Your defeatist pablum does nothing to help Obama to win. If this issue was so near and dear to you, you should have done something about it LONG before the election. But that wouldn't feed your hysteria addiction, would it?
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)My hysteria addiction? Looking for ways to lose? Your disgusting attack and insults have earned you my first ignore. Have a nice life.
Floyd_Gondolli
(1,277 posts)RomneyLies
(3,333 posts)I have forever lost respect for Jim Hightower for pushing this tinfoilhat nonsense.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)You were saying?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014293408
RussBLib
(9,020 posts)Are you saying you have 100% trust in the machines and know they will all be tabulated correctly and fairly? You cannot say that with ANY certainty.
The machines have to be FIXED and not IGNORED.
LeftInTX
(25,383 posts)but most of what he has written has been covered here
Tx4obama
(36,974 posts)Here in Politics2012...
Tagg Romney Invested in Ohio Electronic Voting Machines
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251154436
and
Here in DU LBN ...
Does Mitt Romney's Son Tagg Have An Investment In Some Ohio Voting Machines?...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014273321
CCJORDAN
(24 posts)I believe the GOP would do just about anything to get their power back, remember GorevBush,
Come On People! Check out :
Maximumnegro
(1,134 posts)
reusrename
(1,716 posts)It's a right-wing lie that Gore sued Bush.
Bush sued in FL, was granted the relief he asked for by FL Supreme Court, then appealed to SCOTUS because he got what he asked for.
Gore never sued.
Maximumnegro
(1,134 posts)votes that have flipped given his early vote margin? I mean Jesus H. Come on... Obama's got more stones than the handrwingers here. Oh yeah and he's a constitutional law professor. I mean Christ, it really doesn't matter how much Obama is ahead does it?
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Successfully?
In our generation?
roody
(10,849 posts)wiredshut
(31 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)And it went to the supreme court. The rest is history.
Doctor Jack
(3,072 posts)
I am scared
brush
(53,792 posts)Last edited Fri Nov 2, 2012, 10:09 AM - Edit history (2)
. . . all they want but it's not going to be that close. The President is too far ahead and there are too many eyeballs on Ohio and their voting machines this time. The machine hacking trick only works if it's very close and you catch people by surprise. If it's not close and if they try to swing it to Romney with a large 3-5% or more vote switch that doesn't jibe with the exit polls, it will too much of a statistical oddity to not raise suspicions.
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)Coyotl
(15,262 posts)the "many eyeballs on Ohio" do you?
The machine code is SECRET!!! Unless, of course, you own the machines liker Mitt Romney does!
I know about how easy it is to switch votes with hacking but there are counter measures to stop the crooks. There are going to be exit polls in Ohio. I assume you know that exit polls have proven to be accurate to within 1% of actual results. So like I posted, if there is a big discrepancy in what the exit polls say and what the repug pols produce as the election results, suspicions will be raised and those "eyeballs" I mentioned (dem poll watchers and attorneys) are poised take action this time and not just let it go like in '04 and '00.
Coyotl
(15,262 posts)But, it will be just like before. Once the theft has happened and the results are in, there is nothing that can be done that will change that. Look at how Congress reacted to Ohio in 2004. They just certified Ohio after a bit of screaming their lungs out. Even when statistical proof was offered, Dems in power in Ohio later simply had a move on attitude.
What good did it do to demonstrate the Milwaukee Anomaly?
Or the Ohio punch card vote switching? Has anyone bothered to analyze other Ohio elections or counties? NO
Just like they designed Ohio punch card voting TO STEAL elections and turn Ohio red, the same is true of voting machines. They are designed to steal elections, especially in other countries, but just as easily in the USA.
The only thing that changed was they passed laws removing the evidence from the process by forcing the machines upon everyone.
And without evidence, they will ONLY be able to scream their lungs out. Why, exit polls are not evidence, they are merely inference.
brush
(53,792 posts)These are not the same dems from '04 and '00. Maybe you haven't noticed but the Obama team hits back hard and they react quickly. I doubt if they are going to just let the Presidency slip out of their grasp to that lying, cheating pair of Romney and Ryan. This election has been too hard-fought to just walk away from any obvious vote hacking, and for the repugs to win in Ohio the vote hacking will have pretty obvious because it's not that close a race. And why are you so confident that Romney's operation will be able to pull that off without being detected? They haven't shown themselves to be that smart through this whole campaign. Try to be positive and go out and volunteer for the Obama campaign these last few days. We need help not naysayers. I'm canvassing Saturday through to election day. What about you?
roody
(10,849 posts)be the first powerful Dem to take a stand, Barbara Boxer excepted.
Coyotl
(15,262 posts)We need to be realistic. When the only clue you have is the Rembrant is no longer on the wall, you have one more clue than you would for a stolen election.
krawhitham
(4,644 posts)1 county is too small to matter, the other is Hamilton
freshwest
(53,661 posts)Coyotl
(15,262 posts)Take a closer look at who owns the other companies and at where Hart machines are more common.
mzmolly
(50,996 posts)Both, have paper ballots with an opti-scan machine made by H.I. A loser in an election can request a recount. IF they try to steal Ohio, there is plenty of reason to request such a count.
SnoopDog
(2,422 posts)You are naive at best...
Adding a few lines of code to flip one vote per x votes (x depends on the precinct) per voting machine is very simple...
That's all it takes to 'win' an election...
Paper trails are nothing but a false sense of security - for the voter only. It is where the votes are counted and reported...
Gobama will have to many lawyers and vote watchers to allow this. They can try but the will of the American people is too strong!!
SnoopDog
(2,422 posts)Thanks.
Coyotl
(15,262 posts)How many lawyers is too many lawyers? And are these all cyber-security enabled lawyers?
What is a "vote watcher"?
NYC Liberal
(20,136 posts)Coyotl
(15,262 posts)Was that expected? Did it match the reliable polling?
defacto7
(13,485 posts)the code would have to have a hedge that maintains a pseudo random output based on predictable and unpredictable input. Without that measure of seemingly random behavior it can go outside of reasonable boundaries ending up with a tally too easy to recognize as manipulated. A few minor calculations and whamo you have a crime. On the other hand, it can have a failsafe command that just reverts to the default or erases the results and it looks like a big mistake.
It all just goes to show that these machines are not a part of a good breakfast.
Drunken Irishman
(34,857 posts)
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)Take a deep breath. Remind everyone you know to vote, and vote early if they can. We have a few things riding on our side.
1) Despite the claims of the right-wingers (and a few leftover Dixiecrats) Obama's pretty popular. presidential elections see big turnouts, and in 2008, he got one of the biggest we've ever seen (maybe it was the biggest, I don't have the numbers).
2) Obama's opponent in this is, frankly, a flake. His campaign has had absolutely no success stories, and he's been visibly losing ground since the nomination. The media might keep saying "neck and neck" but the people who do the voting know better; Romney has no popularity, even among his supporters. He's a vehicle to get Obama out of office to them, and they would have sided with a turnip had the GOP nominated it.
3) Money is a problem, but all it can do is advertise. The system is still one person, one vote, and even the vast sums of money poured int othe GOP campaign has given Romney about as much bounce as a deflated volleyball. THWAP.
4) demographics. As the GOP said, "we're just not generating enough angry white guys." Broad swaths of American society understand that the GOP is not just not o n their side, but actively antagonistic towards them. Those demographics are growing steadily, while the GOP's percentage of the population dwindles.
5) Obama is an incumbent. Like it or not, that gives quite a bit of weight; what's more, he's an incumbent who's done okay in the last four years.
6) An election can only be stolen if 1) the margin is already slender, and 2) if the people it's stolen from don't persist. Both of these were evident in 2000 and 2004, when voter apathy stifled the voting margins between Bush and Gore, and when both Gore and Kerry completely fumbled the contesting of the disputed states.
It all boils down to.. .the people who voted Obama in '08 are likely to do so again next week. The people who are new voters, are going to lean towards the Democratic party. The "undecideds" of 2008 are going to lean to Obama., while this year's undecided will probably stay home and chew their toenails (they're always an election cycle behind). The GOP is going to have moderate and largely unenthusiastic turnout, while the Democrats are showing just the opposite.
If people vote, we've got this one. easy. Getting htem to the polls is the crucial part. Democracy falls apart without participation!
freshwest
(53,661 posts)NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Kick and Recommend.
Columbus Free Press
(141 posts)there are multiple ways to de-furr a feline
http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19/2012/4766
http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19/2012/4768
red dog 1
(27,820 posts)From the October 31 article:
"Why did the Ohio Secretary of State Jon Husted's office, in an end run around Ohio election law,
have "experimental" software patches installed on vote counting tabulations in up to 39 Ohio counties?
Voting rights activists are concerned that these uncertified and untested software patches may alter the election results."
From the November 2 article:
"An unelected partisan group of attorneys appears to have conspired to install election software without testing or certification that they are professionally unqualified to pass judgment upon.
These types of last minute installations of software patches on voting machines are considered suspect by knowledgeable and experienced election protection attorneys, in light of all the voting machine irregularities exposed during the 2004 election in Ohio."
This is apparently a much bigger issue than Hart Intercivic or Tagg Romney, and these two articles deserve a thread of their own.
The Office of Ohio's Secretary of State, Jon Husted, is preparing to steal another election; this time using untested, experimental software "patches", and it appears that neither President Obama nor the Justice Department will be able to stop it from happening
Partisan Secretaries of State, whether Republican or Democrat, should not be able to in any way, directly or indirectly, influence the outcome of an election that they oversee.
Perhaps I should have titled this post:
"Here's how Romney is going to help Ohio Secretary of State Jon Husted steal the Ohio vote."
AverageJoe90
(10,745 posts)
SoapBox
(18,791 posts)I just like to think of ALL possible situations...this is just one.
And for those that rant and trash, scared to consider scenarios...you scare me.
I do not for one stinking second think that the Pukes and Baggers are not plotting and planning how
they can steal this away, given the chance, if we only have a small winning margin.
All things need to be considered and I hope that our side is indeed ALSO considering a variety of situations.
In the mean time...GOTV!
Coyotl
(15,262 posts)and the Rs have been doing it in plain sight, with voter suppression/ID laws, etc. There is no doubt that there is a concerted effort to shave every point possible, and there is evidence this spills over into the illegal realm. So, I agree, all things need to be considered. The Rs have, after all, been considering every possible way to cheat this thing, purging, registration destruction, ID laws, dirty tricks, you name it, it is a full-frontal assault on the Left and on democracy. Anyone who thinks we can trust the ultra-right voting machine companies, or that we even know the true owners of those machines, is truly naive in the face of a lot of contravening evidence in plain view.
Your point on margin is very important. They have point shaving down to a fine science, and a lot of it is in plain view. But polling ios also a fine science and it delineates precisely where the last point has to be stolen for the overall scheme to succeed.
Maraya1969
(22,484 posts)pay. He is to far up in the polls.
EDIT - Nate Silver has him up at an 80% chance of taking Ohio now.
world wide wally
(21,744 posts)for inspection.
Coyotl
(15,262 posts)So, it is pointless to look at the machine after the fact or even before the fact. Programming can end-run anything you can come up with, short of watching each voter cast their vote.
Do you do anything but post how the election is going to be stolen? If you're such an expert offer the Obama campaign some solutions, or maybe try working on the campaign so the margin is too big for them to steal. This Chicken Little crapola gets old fast ("Oh, they're going to steal. They're going to steal it"
. We heard it in '08 but we worked to make the margin too big. Try it yourself, your fingers need the exercise.
Coyotl
(15,262 posts)VIDEO: 'Can E-Voting Machines Be Hacked?' RT America Asked. 'Of Course,' I Told Them.
By Brad Friedman on 10/31/2012, 9:19pm PT
http://www.bradblog.com/?p=9676
It's that time of year. I've been doing a lot of talking lately, on a bunch of media outlets. That means I haven't been able to write and report here as much as I might like of late. In any case, below is one of those appearances, from earlier today, on RT America with anchor Kristine Frazao, in reference to a Christian Science Monitor article from last Friday, by Mark Clayton, accurately headlined: "Could e-voting machines in Election 2012 be hacked? Yes."
It's nice to see stories we reported here at The BRAD BLOG as long as six years ago, many of them exclusively, finally covered in mainstream media outlets, as the CS Monitor piece does. It's also fun to see them quoting the term "sleepover" --- in regard to vulnerable voting machines being sent home with poll workers for days or weeks before Election Day --- a phrase that this blog has been credited with coining about six years ago as well.
I realize that sounds sarcastic, but I don't actually mean it that way. ....
andrewgr
(23 posts)Every time I read one of these articles, I get nervous.
However, I keep coming back to the same thought over and over again:
The Democrats in charge of the country and of charge in the election have access to every bit of this information, and almost certainly more information besides. They appear completely unconcerned. They've had 4 years to figure something out (since a lot of the more damning information was available shortly after the election), and haven't done anything (so far as the public is aware).
I honestly hate to put it this bluntly, but: if the election is stolen by something as obvious as rigged voting machines owned by one of the candidates, then we deserve to lose, because politics (not just elections) is a dirty knife-fight with few rules, and you'd better be able to make a correct decision about something like this.
SB2
(23 posts)wiredshut
(31 posts)It has been reported that just having a sign in your yard from a home security company can provide protection. Why? Because buglars who see that the house is being monitored are concerned and cautious, often walking away. To raise this topic of Romney voter machines and being "paranoid" and "defeatest" about election theft is to let them know that we are monitoring. We're looking over your shoulders, maybe more. To not show concern is foolish!! The GOP is incompetent (proven) and can only win elections by stoking fear, misleading voters, or...cheating. Be pro-active, not re-active!!
AmandaInAustin
(13 posts)Lies are a major way Romney is trying to Lie His way to the Top...
Run Down on MANY of Romney's Desperate Recent Litany of Lies This Week And Why it is our responsibility to call them out on it and demand that our media cover these untruths. Please RePost by hitting the 'Share' button below, sending to news orgs, etc...
******Examples include: Romney continues to run ads that he knows are LIES, such as
a) That Jeep is moving some of its production to China (even though Jeep denies this vehemently), b) Re-running an ad that was fact-check as invalid in the past stating that has several lies a) States that Pres. Obama gutted the work requirement from welfare when he didn't , c) false claims that Obama DOUBLED the deficit, when it is in fact, much lower than the beginning of his term. How can we let this stand? Please write stories sending the American voters 'the Memo' that these things are NOT in fact true and that is outrageous for any candidate to run these blatant ads and then refuse to be accountable for them. Romney has refused interviews and is hoping the low information voters will not be informed....if he succeeds in doing this, what have we come to? Let's take a stand against lies. As Cenk says, this does not have to EVER be politics as usual. It is NOT. It is worse than ever and the information manipulators will be rewarded will be reinforced by any citizen or reporters' inaction. Let's Act to stand up to this deception!
****Please REPOST this to Stop the LIES.
*Fact filled Video from 10/30/12 Young Turks Show is at: <a href="http://current.com/shows/the-young-turks/videos/romney-continues-to-run-ads-about-jeep-production-moving-to-china-even-though-its-a-flat-out-lie">
