A Pipedream: Believing people will unite behind Clinton.

[Skwmom]

And you accuse Bernie supporters of not facing reality.


The state of denial in the Democratic Party is breathtaking. You have went on for months about how the Republican Party is divided while REFUSING to acknowledge the problem within the Democratic Party.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511993574

[YouDig]

1. I take it you're not voting for Hillary.

[TheCowsCameHome]

3. Is it mandatory?

[YouDig]

13. Um, no. Just doesn't seem the OP likes Hillary very much.

[Skwmom]

5. Did I say that? No. But have you talked to any millineal voters? They keep telling Bernie to get out

of the race so people can unite. I don't see that happening.

Of course, it is not only the millineals.

[YouDig]

10. I've talked to a few. They aren't really into politics so much, most millenials I know.

[psychmommy]

128. My daughter and her friends are they are voting bernie.

Millenials are the college age kids, they are voting. Just not feeling hillary.

[JaneyVee]

16. I am a millennial voter.

[SheenaR]

102. You keep saying this

You are 34/35. You are not a millenial. You had Atari, rotary phones and dial up internet.

You are not a millenial

I am 26 and I don't consider myself one.

Good try though for the nth time

[BlueStateLib]

129. millennial is a person reaching young adulthood around the year 2000;

[SheenaR]

130. Young adulthood is also known as adolesence

Which does not apply for her either.

[k8conant]

131. 34 year-olds are probably millennials; a 26-year-old definitely is.

From a Baby Boomer [1949] (via the Atlantic):

[SheenaR]

132. By the biggest stretch 34 is millenial.

When politcos are courting millenials, they arent coming around for 34 year olds.

[Katashi_itto]

125. Bullshit.

[leftynyc]

85. My nephew is a millineal (24)

He will vote for Hillary but he and 2 of his friends that were with us will vote Trump over Sanders (they think Bernie will destroy the economy). Here in NY, I've heard that FAR more than the other way around. I'll do what I can to convince them it's far more likely that donnie will cause such uncertainty, the market will crash (which I happen to believe).

[Fawke Em]

123. Interesting.

I think either Trump or Hillary will destroy the economy. Trump because he's a buffoon and Hillary because she loves those trade deals that send good-paying jobs overseas.

[leftynyc]

124. They don't trust Bernie

They think he's unrealistic and think his promise to raise everyone's taxes is a loser. A few were on the fence between Hillary and Bernie but now they just don't like Bernie.

[underthematrix]

2. I think President Obama and Vice president Biden will be

very persuasive. Not everyone will be able to let go of their rage and just do what's best for America. I understand. However, the majority will act in America's best interest.

[Skwmom]

8. Hmmm... America's best interest....

[underthematrix]

38. yes. You can't get progressive policies with a NAZI in the White House

[underthematrix]

62. I was talking about your Uncle Trump

[underthematrix]

65. lack of emotional intelligence

[mythology]

99. As opposed to suggesting up thread

That Clinton was a nazi? The phrase about people in glass houses not throwing stones seems applicable.

[underthematrix]

107. I never ever suggested that Clinton was a NAZI

I'm voting for Clinton on June 7th.

[basselope]

26. I am guessing "the majority" won't vote.

[underthematrix]

40. A majority that gives us a general election win

[basselope]

57. Unlikely.

[underthematrix]

58. Well you just stay in that bubble and enjoy the unicorns

[basselope]

59. The only bubble I see is the one where people think Hillary can win the GE.

Completely lost group.

[underthematrix]

61. She will definitely win

[2banon]

75. I'll say it again, Hubert Humphrey Won too.

go read history. this shit is repeating and the Hillary Camp had better figure out how to make nice to us Bernie supporters in a big way and in a big hurry. or it's gonna be pretty damn depressing to say the least, and I'm not referring to Bernie supporters either.

(yes, we will be depressed, but we''ll press on beyond the elections).

[Skwmom]

94. It's more than playing nice.

[2banon]

95. Absolutely, only a beginning.

they all need to grovel at our feet.. they need our support to carry them over Trump. They need to start acting like they get that.

[COLGATE4]

133. Are you insane?

"They all need to grovel at our feet".
If you think that anybody is going to grovel at your feet you're clinically Delusional.

[basselope]

98. See.. the bubble.

[2banon]

74. Hillary is inflicted with the Hubert Humphrey Syndrome

look how well that turned out for him and the party..

To say he and they were Tone Deaf wrt electorate, (hell to the delegates inside the Convention Hall) would have been an understatement.

There is a willful blindness that is rather bizarre.

[felix_numinous]

96. Deja Vu

"Ohio"

Tin soldiers and Nixon coming,
We're finally on our own.
This summer I hear the drumming,
Four dead in Ohio.

Gotta get down to it
Soldiers are cutting us down
Should have been done long ago.
What if you knew her
And found her dead on the ground
How can you run when you know?

Gotta get down to it
Soldiers are cutting us down
Should have been done long ago.
What if you knew her
And found her dead on the ground
How can you run when you know?

Tin soldiers and Nixon coming,
We're finally on our own.
This summer I hear the drumming,
Four dead in Ohio.

[2banon]

97. going to be an interesting summer...

So much depends on the Hillary Camp right now.

Older party elites may have learned the wrong lessons. sort of seems like that now.

hopefully I'm wrong.

[bjo59]

34. Maybe so but a lot of people's eyes were opened during Obama's first term.

I personally don't think Obama's and Biden's encouragement to back a member of the club is going to have a huge effect.

[underthematrix]

43. Well maybe not for you. And that's fine. Not everyone can see past themselves

[djean111]

71. Obama and Biden cannot persuade me to vote for a Third way warmongering corporate

candidate. That's ridiculous to even think it possible.

[Skwmom]

105. So exactly how is Biden going to explain this when campaigning for Clinton?

Biden: The middle class does NOT have a fighting chance because of money controlling the politics

I believe the huge sums of unlimited and often secret money pouring into our politics is a fundamental threat to our Democracy, and I really believe that. I think it's a fundamental threat, because the middle class will never have a fighting chance in this country as long as just several hundred families, the wealthiest families, control the process. It's just that simple. And I believe that we have to level the playing field for the American people. And that's going to take access to education and opportunity to work.

SO is Biden supposed to say to middle class Americans, sorry you don't have a fighting chance but vote for Hilary anyway?

I would be surprised if the GOP didn't run this as an ad in PA.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/10/21/full-text-bidens-announcement-that-he-wont-run-for-president/

[Godhumor]

4. Oh, we'll see what happens when Bernie and Liz start campaigning for her n/t

[Skwmom]

12. Bernie has tried to tell you he can't snap his fingers and Clinton will define Warren MUCH more than

Warren will ever define Clinton.

The state of denial over what is happening is mind boggling.

[Godhumor]

17. I agree there is a state of denial about the primary and how it ends n/t

[uponit7771]

18. Sanders CAN snap his fingers and campaign for her though as he will

[HooptieWagon]

70. Sanders doesn't own our votes.

If Sanders endorses Clinton it will have no effect on his supporters. They all extremely dislike and distrust Clinton. Fewer than half will hold their nose and vote for her, and that % is steadily dropping with the continued lying, smearing, and cheating from Camp Westhervane. The only thing keeping her close in the GE is the Rrpublicans havent rallied behind Trump yet...but they eventually will. Clinton will have no such luck with the left, since DLClinton has been shitting on us for 25 years. It's fucking payback time.

[uponit7771]

72. True, and he'll still campaign hard to make sure Clinton is in office

[NutmegYankee]

80. Then I guess you don't belong here.

[NutmegYankee]

82. Unlike you

I don't have to sign up each day. Just a thought.

[underthematrix]

44. i think Elizabeth Warren will be great. She recognizes what's at stake.

[Skwmom]

135. Huge risk for Warren b/c so many people have been exposed this primary season. People are much

more questioning than they once were.

[Snotcicles]

6. I sent another donation the the Sanders campaign, just my way of saying I'm with him all the way. nt

[Cheese Sandwich]

7. They won't even let people unite. They're practically kicking us out.

Changing the rules in the middle, lying about us, having their friends in the media spread more lies.

They don't want Bernie voters. We annoy them. We talk about war and inequality. They find it unbearable annoying.

[azurnoir]

11. we talk about issues-they talk about us-much like 2008

[uponit7771]

19. No yaw don't... yaw scream bitch, post peoples phone numbers, call PoC uninformed, condescend

... to anyone who doesn't want to be a Bern Victim and scream Bernie or Bust...

Issues my ass

[Kentonio]

83. While you call half the party a bunch of racist, sexist, violent thugs and closet Republicans.

(Am I doing this right?)

[uponit7771]

87. asshole is what asshole does right? tia

[TCJ70]

89. You would know...n/t

[Cheese Sandwich]

23. Was it like that in 2008 as well?

Oh my.

They won't talk about issues. They seem very amped up too. Very defensive. A lot of hard hitting personal attacks.

[azurnoir]

35. yep Obama's folks wanted to talk issues Hillary's want to talk Obama and Rev Wright

that's what made finally decide on Obama

[Cheese Sandwich]

41. I didn't really follow the news so closely back then.

But yes the Reverend Wright thing was very memorable. I remember Obama then gave that huge speech on race relations and race in America. That was really something. They pushed him into a corner and man he did ever come out fighting. He was awesome in that campaign. I wish his whole 8 years were that awesome. But yes I see your point.

[azurnoir]

46. IMO one the main differences between Hillary and Obama is that Obama actually used race to unify the

party while Hillary actually seems to use it as a divisive tool - it is disappointing and ultimately defeating not to her perhaps but to the party

[Cheese Sandwich]

51. Absolutely yes. Obama was actually a very good president

I disagree with many of his policies like on TPP and stuff like that but he united the party like you said. It meant so much. Hillary used race to divide in 2008 and she's doing it again today but in the opposite direction kind of. It's sad. It's bad for the country actually too because it plays into the Republican hands because they use race to divide as well. I think the DLC Clinton Dems are basically Republicans that had a long game of entering the Dem Party to take it over, and they did it.

[liberal_at_heart]

73. I disagree with Obama on many, many policy issues, but I will say this about the guy.

He never tried to steal an election. Can't say the same about Hillary.

[nadinbrzezinski]

67. It was, but far, far, far less bad

[nadinbrzezinski]

42. And climate change

[JaneyVee]

9. Hillary has united every demographic except white males.

Too bad.

[uponit7771]

21. +1, I've said multiple times how in the hell is the Sanders campaign supposed to be a progressive

... one were he loses among all demos except white males

[TheCowsCameHome]

22. and a lot of women

she can't afford to ose.

[Kittycat]

37. She never had me.

Didn't support her on 2008, she has done nothing to earn my vote in 2016.

[JudyM]

110. She had me until I really looked into her record.... and Bernie's.

Then it was a total shutout, she was scoreless. Except for her gender and some things she'd said and written quite a while earlier. Neither effective nor progressive except compared to rethugs.

[XemaSab]

39. And women. And people under the age of 50.

And every other demographic.

[slipslidingaway]

45. Not this over 60 white female, nor my 30 year old daughter. Where do you get your info. nt

[Beacool]

14. A Pipedream: Believing Sanders still has a chance at the nomination.

And you accuse Hillary supporters of not facing reality.

[TheCowsCameHome]

30. How about in the GE?

She's going to have a real struggle on her hands.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

113. You know this, because how?

It won't be that much of a struggle if the party unifies around Hillary and against Trump. Most people I talk to think that Trump's a loon and don't take him seriously as Presidential material. He'll have the backing of a major political party and probably wind up with most of their votes simply for being an R but which blue states is he going to turn red? If anything, Hillary might be able to turn some red states blue running against Trump.

[uponit7771]

15. Enough people will so she'll win the GE, a bigger pipe dream is Sanders can still throw stones

[oasis]

20. Real Democrats will get behind Hillary. Devil take the rest.

[Skwmom]

24. There are not enough Democrats for her to win the election.

[TheCowsCameHome]

27. Oh, stop that silly talk.

They don't want to hear the facts.

[oasis]

32. She'll get a large chunk of Independents and GOP women.

The Bernie or Busters, she can do without.

[riderinthestorm]

69. What GOP women?

Trump gets a solid 30% every primary. Cruz's conservative evangelical women voters make up @ 60%. Kasich's moderate female voters @ 10%.

If you think Cruz’s crazy conservatives will vote for Hillary Clinton you are mistaken. These folks are the "crawling over broken glass" types to vote against Hillary. They HATE her.

Kasich's moderates aren't enough to matter if they go to Hillary. Honestly, I'd bet this group sits it out. Kasich actually is a batshit RWNJ posing as a reasonable guy. His female supporters hate Hillary as much as Cruz's but they're too polite to actually vote to destroy.

[Beacool]

28. Isn't it amazing how they seem proud when they claim that his supporters won't support the nominee?

I guess that they really don't give a hoot about the country. If Sanders had ended with more pledged delegates and won the nomination, I would have voted for him in the GE. Any Democrat would be better than the GOP's orange narcissist.

[Beowulf]

36. It's because I give a hoot about this country

that I can't support your candidate. Now that involves talking about issues and you guys don't like to do that so I'll spare my arthritic hands from typing any more.

[SamKnause]

78. I think the 'Devil' has already taken the Hillary supporters.

[JEB]

25. She wants Bush donor money more than progressive votes.

[bkkyosemite]

29. They know damn well that they cheated and they know damn well that the unity speel

is just that.

[grasswire]

31. agreed

The talking heads of the media have the same pipe dream. It just ain't gonna happen. Because Brock, and because snide, and because insulting Millennials time after time after time, and progressives as well.

It's not gonna happen.

[spinboas]

33. Actually Vann Jones said roughly the same thing tonight.

He said he does not see the party uniting and it is much different then 08.

The look on axl Rods face was priceless!

[One Black Sheep]

49. Van Jones is one of the few CNN pundits that gets it, and that is not talking

like he is living in a Washington D.C. bubble.
Refreshing to see someone talk as if they are close to the ground, and know what is actually going on in real America...
CNN needs more like him.

[cheapdate]

47. I'm supporting the Democratic Party in November.

[arcane1]

106. Unfortunately, the Democratic Party won't be supporting ME in November.

I'm not wealthy.

[emsimon33]

48. K&R

And the exodus from the Party will shock, I say SHOCK, them.

[jillan]

50. Not after the lies coming out of NV or DWS comments tonite. Ain't happening.

I am disgusted with Hillary and her campaign.

[mindwalker_i]

56. I'm disgusted with the whole party

The shit they've pulled is incredible.

[GoneFishin]

52. They are in a corner. They can't get the nomination without rampant cheating. But in doing so they

have confirmed every allegation about Hillary being dishonest and being an establishment hack.

[tazkcmo]

53. Ruh Roh Raggy! n/t

[Sheepshank]

54. Yet Bernie and BS DUers spouting all the things that DNC and Hillary need to do

...to bring those energetic voters into the tent.

I figured all along it was bullshit. Op confirms it.

[The_Casual_Observer]

55. I hear that there is some libertarian candidate

Might be just right for you. Don't let the door smack you in the ass.

[nadinbrzezinski]

66. I hear that if enough people do that in swing states

she might lose the election.

You are correct though, don't let the door hit you...

[SwampG8r]

93. Im in a swing state

Do you want me gone too?
Just say the words.

[Lil Missy]

76. HRC is within 100 points of winning, officially. Obviously she's had more support than St. Bernie.

Really, you don't have to accept it. Maybe you don't belong here??

Per Skinner:

"Once the primaries are over, we are all on the same side again. Anyone who isn't on the same side was never supposed to be here in the first place. And anyone who persists in disrupting this site -- no matter what side they're on -- will no longer be welcome."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1259&pid=10321

[highprincipleswork]

77. Even Bernie says they will do so, and he will help IF she sticks with a Progressive agenda!!!!

What is so fucking hard about that! That's especially a question for all of you who claim she is so Progressive.

Easy, simple.

But no, now the convention seems designed to shut out the influence of Bernie and his supporter. What sense does that make when he holds the key to roughly half the votes, with the promise of many more?

Where's the sense in abandoning the will and energy of those people? In search of a few errant Republicans who MIGHT get over their traditional hatred of you to vote for you?

In improv there's a rule called "yes,and", which is powerful and keeps the action going. How about a yes, and if Hillary wins. Try it out if you're a Hillary supporter. Something like this. "YES, and we're going to find a way for Bernie supporters to join us and we're all going to fight for the Progressive ideas that have always made the Democratic Party strong, and together we're going to knock Donald Trump into the next Galaxy, and we're going to take the Senate and maybe the House,etc

You can add some more of your own "ands". They feel good, don't they? A lot better than "buts".

[Skwmom]

134. People will not BELIEVE that she would stick to any agenda.

[highprincipleswork]

137. There's one way to prove it. Do it.

Could be by far the best thing she's ever done.

Heck, she could become a greater President than Bill. She could surpass him by being Progressive. If she tries to surpass him in the other direction, I think she will be out of step with the times, and she will lose.

Be Progressive all the way, further than anybody expects. That's the way to victory, and that's the way to legacy.

[Skwmom]

138. And they accuse Bernie supporters of believing in unicorns. She has taken to much money.

She has to deliver the goods.

[highprincipleswork]

139. I am a Bernie supporter, and I'm willing to believe in anything that works. By the way,

apparently there were unicorns.

https://weather.com/science/news/real-unicorn-fossil

But you know, cynicism is overrated. Some call it realism. When actually, nobody knows the future.

Let me ask you something, do people always honor their obligations? No. Does Clinton have to pay those people back? No. What do you think they do to her, kill her? I think not. Is she ambitious, beyond imagining? Would it be an incredible thrill to beat the shit out of Bill's record. You betcha.

I'm not holding my breath. I just know that Progressivism is a far safer bet this year than retrenchment. If you call me naive on that one, I'll definitely tell you where to stick it, because I'm absolutely sure that it is.

I also know that people have a strange predilection to believe in some of the stupidest, most nefarious things - like Reagonomics and its idiot cousin - triangulation. Me, and I'm pretty damn sure the majority of the American public, are over both those things.

[silvershadow]

84. They sure are fixing to find out. They actually think it is just politics, rather than visceral

disdain for much of what she represents.

[RBInMaine]

86. I hear the lunatic Trump is hiring. Why don't you go and apply.

[pinebox]

90. Why are you mad? Hillary isn't going to win a GE

if she is the nominee.
Bookmark me now.

And you better hope and pray Bernie doesn't go indy.

[LiberalElite]

88. i know right? WE'RE the ones who want unicorns!

[Adrahil]

91. Well, the more the campaign goes on, the less I like Sanders.

So maybe it is a two-way street. I use to admire the dude. Now he just strikes me as bitter and delusional. Would I vote for him if he got the nom? Yup. But like many Sanders voters thinking of Hillary, it would not be an enthusiastic vote.

[apnu]

92. BoB are the PUMAs of 2016.

[apnu]

120. And BoBs arent relentlessly hateful toward liberals and moderates?

Do tell.

[Garrett78]

100. I think the bulk of those who've voted for Sanders will vote for Clinton in November.

And then there are those who won't (a disproportionate percentage post on sites such as DU, which is not representative of the population at large). Among that crowd, I suspect a fair number have never voted for a Democratic candidate for president. Some will vote for Stein or another 3rd party candidate. A small fraction may actually vote for Trump.

There are also people who participate in primaries/caucuses with no intention of supporting anyone from that party come November.

Put it all together and I see no reason to believe Clinton isn't an overwhelming favorite to become the next POTUS.

[Skwmom]

101. Suggestion: Get out and talk to the people.

[hamsterjill]

103. I definitely acknowledge there is a problem within the Democratic Party

That problem has now been compounded by all of the press attention that the Nevada convention received. Bad behavior gets air play.

But as for believing people will unite behind Clinton, I don't know the answer to that any more than you do. Time alone will tell. It's fine to state your opinion, but none of us knows what will happen between today and the general election.

I hope there will be a united effort to elect Hillary, and I hope she will defeat Donald Trump. Hoping and knowing are, of course, two different things.

[anotherproletariat]

104. True...people HERE will not unite. The vast majority I talk to while canvassing are willing to.

We have gotten so down in the mud on DU, that no minds will be changed. Heck, even though Sanders won't win, I still plan to do all I can to ruin his legacy in the future. All because of the people I've encountered on DU.

That's why so many Hillary supporters have been speaking up on DU lately, we realize that there is no down side to provoking the Sandroid army.

[azurnoir]

108. glad to you confess that Clinton's surrogates are purposely attempting to provoke Sanders folks just

like they did in Vegas

oh and if had one of you guys on my door step I'd agree just to get you to leave quickly and quietly, in fact I have


Star Member anotherproletariat (760 posts)
104. True...people HERE will not unite. The vast majority I talk to while canvassing are willing to.

We have gotten so down in the mud on DU, that no minds will be changed. Heck, even though Sanders won't win, I still plan to do all I can to ruin his legacy in the future. All because of the people I've encountered on DU.

That's why so many Hillary supporters have been speaking up on DU lately, we realize that there is no down side to provoking the Sandroid army.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1995803

[Garrett78]

109. I recall a poll posted on DU that said 1/3rd of Sanders supporters won't vote for Clinton in Nov.

And even that's probably a stretch. Come November, a majority of those who voted for him in the primaries/caucuses will vote for Clinton. Those who won't vote for Clinton won't vote for Trump either (with a few exceptions, of course). So, I don't think Clinton and the Democratic Party are too concerned with the Bernie or Bust crowd, outside of what kind of scene they might make at the convention.

[eastwestdem]

119. Excellent idea. Count me in on the legacy destroying team! nt

[Proud Liberal Dem]

111. So what do you expect Hillary to do?

If Democratic primary voters wanted Bernie and his agenda, a majority of them would have voted for him but they didn't. The majority of Democratic primary voters want Hillary and unless something extraordinary happens she will be the nominee and we choose between her and Trump for the Presidency. Nothing will change that reality. Once the primary is over, the party will stop being divided and unify around its nominee, Hillary Clinton.

[Skwmom]

112. They will try to paint it as the party being united with smoke and mirrors but it won't be united.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

114. Why won't it be united?

[Proud Liberal Dem]

117. And Hillary (and supporters) haven't been pretty demonized too?

Once the primary is over, we should put this nonsense aside and unite to beat Republicans, not nurse primary grudges.

[SidDithers]

118. Less of a pipedream than thinking Sanders will be the nominee...nt

Sid

[TalkingDog]

121. I think the word you are looking for is UNICORNS

[riversedge]

126. Hoping smart people will NOT unite for Hillary is YOUR silly pipedream.

[beachbumbob]

127. People who don't want America ruined with trump will support

Hillary.the others don't care how badly America will be damaged by trump....they want to see America fail..I say screw them...for what they are..

[senz]

136. Her personal & professional history, her campaign, and her followers are the problem.