2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumFrom what I've seen from both sides of Nevada's shit show. Everybody stepped in it.
Bernie's people on Reddit say this: https://www.reddit.com/r/SandersForPresident/comments/4jid77/basic_stepbystep_of_what_went_down_yesterday_at/
NVDems say this: https://medium.com/@nvdems/the-facts-about-the-nevada-democratic-state-convention-on-saturday-106cc5db3d83#.1ocikw25z
What I find interesting is the NVDems address points the Bernie people are upset about (like the 64 people challenged at the door), but Bernie people don't mention other allegations of what went on in the convention hall.
Here's what I think happened: Nevada Dems were going about what they normally go about in politics in Nevada with some of the most complicated rules in the nation. Bernie's people didn't all show up and take the slots Bernie earned in the primary and the scales tipped to Hillary at the convention. Expecting being able to run the show by a simple majority, but not having one, this surprised Bernie people and they became upset over this.
Given how easily Bernie people here and elsewhere online bandy about allegations of conspiracy in almost every single contest and attribute it to a vast Hillary Clinton cabal, Bernie supporters in Nevada were all to ready to presume dirty tricks before finding out if there were actual dirty tricks versus mistakes or misunderstandings. They flipped out and their worst natures were given free reign on the convention floor. This fanned things to a flash point and everybody got out of hand.
Hillary's people, for their part, should have worked harder to calm things down, but they choose poorly at the crisis point and got heavy handed. This plays right into Bernie supporters persecution complex issues. Instead of trying to sooth and reassure jumpy Bernie supporters, NVDems did the exact wrong thing and fanned an already roaring fire.
Hillary Clinton people did use normal political tricks to their favor on Saturday. Such as challenging people at the door to make sure they were the people they said they were and were registered properly. Mistakes were made there, intentional or not, I can't say, I don't have proof of either. But Bernie people insist all 64 were denied access and this is not true, at least 6 had the right paperwork on their persons and were allowed entry.
That's just one tiny detail if you look at both differing accounts linked above and compare them.
Bernie supporters have too much paranoia and Hillary people have too much arrogance. Seems to me both Hillary and Bernie's camps screwed up. But instead of trying to fix things up and move on, both camps are content to play the blame game and let this roaring fire burn out of control.
dchill
(38,493 posts)I like it! Except Bernie's supporters DID show up. Some were stripped and some were locked out. Plus, they voted early to change the rules.
apnu
(8,756 posts)These are points from NVDems:
Based on the county convention results, Bernie Sanders had 2,124 delegate slots to the State Convention and Hillary Clinton had 1,722 delegate slots to the State Convention.
On Saturday at the State Convention, after all of the alternates were seated, Hillary Clinton filled 1,695 of her delegate slots and Bernie Sanders only filled 1,662 at the State Convention giving Clinton a 33-delegate margin of victory.
Clinton only had 27 delegate positions vacant on Saturday. Sanders left 462 vacant. Clinton filled 98 percent of her available delegate slots at the State Convention, and Sanders only filled 78 percent of his available delegate slots.
In plain terms, the Clinton campaign organized and got nearly all of their delegates to the State Convention. The Sanders campaign did not.
So 462 Sanders vacancies. When did these people show up?
64 people were challenged on the Sanders side, Sanders people say none got in, yet 6 did get in, so Sanders supporters story here isn't accurate.
You can continue to play the blame game or you can help get to the bottom of this. Your choice, I don't give a shit what you do.
dchill
(38,493 posts)64 people were challenged on the Sanders side, Sanders people say none got in, yet 6 did get in, so Sanders supporters story here isn't accurate.
Their story is off by 6/64. So it's completely without merit?
And I'm accused of being snarky? What do you expect?
apnu
(8,756 posts)You brought that in with your first post.
I do expect a civil discussion, but that seems to be beyond you right now.
Have a nice day!
PS on edit. If their story is off 6/64, yeah that's a problem. It suggests Bernie's people in NV are lying when they say "all" (see the reddit post for that), or the can't count, or they're dangerously sloppy.
Of the people kicked, they all had issues with their registration. When challenged, if the delegate could prove there was a mistake they were allowed in. This is not evidence of dirty tricks. Also not all of the 64 were Bernie delegates, most were but not all. Again Bernie people insist that "all" were Bernie people.
Yeah that's a problem. Bernie people are either misrepresentating what happened in the check in process or they simply don't know what happened and are filling in the gaps with guesses and pawning them off as fact.
That's some shit to step in right there. Like I said, both sides have screwed up. If you can't get that, not my problem.
JCMach1
(27,558 posts)Demsrule86
(68,576 posts)The entire thing was orchestrated by the Bernie campaign per CNN recording.