"Is Bernie or Bust Having Unintended Consequences?"

[bloom]

by Dr. Ruth Nemzoff

"Politicians are beholden to those who vote for them. They are swayed by their concerns as they are the people who “brought them to the dance.” No, the superdelegates are not going to go against the majority of the Democratic voters to put someone else in because a subset of voters threatens to take their ball and go home if they can’t get their way. No organization could do that. So I am left wondering if the Bernie or Bust group is shooting themselves in the foot. They are well organized, they have some power, they can influence the course of the election—but not if they threaten to leave the party, or to support someone whose ideals are so different from their own....

Taking home your ball and refusing to play because you can’t get your way may seem like you are empowering yourself. But really, you are not. Those of us who consider ourselves progressives have watched, appalled, as Republicans have replaced scientific reasoning with fantasy and insisted it was true. We have seen them deny the existence of climate change, and hide behind freedom of religion to limit women’s access to comprehensive medical care. It is sad to see some who claim to be progressives online creating a different but equally fallacious fantasy of there being no difference between Trump and Hillary, or that Trump will help bring in the revolution.

Of course, in the online realm, we never do know who is creating this false fantasy. Are they progressives or Trump supporter,s who want you not to vote or to vote for their man, regardless of your reasons? Either way, fantasies may be fun to pass the time on a rainy day, but they can be dangerous, if you confuse them with reality. The fantasy that Trump and Hillary are the same is one such fantasy.

Don’t buy into the the fantasy that the Republicans have been creating for years, that Hillary is dishonest or weak. We have seen time after time, in one expensive and unwarranted investigation after the next, that she is neither. Bernie can have real influence now, but only if he can rely on those who have been his most vocal supporters to join him in supporting the Democratic candidate."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-ruth-nemzoff/is-bernie-or-bust-having-_b_9885572.html

[CrowCityDem]

1. It's not unintended. Those ungrateful 'progressives' want Hillary to lose, and a madman to be Pres.

[Gavile]

3. It's not that anyone "wants" that

But that will likely be the outcome if Bernie isn't the nominee. You have to ask yourself why Trump prefers to run against Hillary.

[Adrahil]

14. Bernie or Busters DO want her to lose.

If they didn't, they would vote for her. The American political system has some serious issues. One of those issues is how the electoral college works. Either the Democrat or Republican will win. If you don't vote for the Democrat, then that helps the Republican. Third parties can ONLY act as spoilers in this process, at least the way things are now.

[Fawke Em]

16. What we want is neither.

That's the sad state of affairs we find ourselves in.

Both are equally horrifying to us, but for different reasons.

Trump is a bigoted madman, so who the hell knows what he'll do.

Hillary will further pull the party to the right by drawing us into more wars and further dissembling the social safety net.

Either way, the working and middle class of this country will not see their grievances addressed and may finally be finished off between Trump's lack of political understanding and the Clinton's Third Way corporatism.

#ImScrewedNoMatterWho

Seriously, you need to read Thomas Frank's book, "Listen, Liberal," so you'll understand why Hillary turns my stomach as much as Trump.

[Adrahil]

22. But that's not an option at this point. Time to put on your grown up pants. NT

[Arugula Latte]

2. And millions of us have watched, appalled, as the

so-called Democratic Party has moved ever rightward and embraced the interests of multinational corporations and Wall St. over struggling regular people. Hillary Clinton is the poster child for this poisoning of our party. A lot of us are simply fed up and have decided we will no longer be enablers.

[cherokeeprogressive]

6. Yup. Well said. nt

[bkkyosemite]

4. "Don’t buy into the the fantasy that the Republicans have been creating for years, that Hillary is

is dishonest or weak."

really

[dana_b]

10. as if we don't have eyes/ears ourselves n/t

[NightWatcher]

5. If the idea that Hillary is weak is "fantasy", why did she lose last time to an unknown?

Not only did she lose to a relatively unknown Senator, but to a black guy with the middle name Hussein. She had name recognition, and that's why she lost last time and why she's having such a hard time this go round. Even though she has the entire apparatus of the party behind her, big donors, and Super PACS on her side, she is struggling with a self identified "democratic socialist" who's campaign finances are coming from individuals who average $28 bucks a pop.

She'll have her ass handed to her by Trump even if the evangelicals stay home.

She'll have lost to a black guy named Hussein and a reality show celebrity. That's pretty weak.

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

23. So are you saying you think Barack Obama was a weak candidate

and Hillary even weaker for losing to him?

I thought Obama was a pretty strong candidate. He managed to win the general election two times after all. I also think that having a black president was something very culturally significant that a lot of people wanted to see happen and I think at the time that was wanted more than a female president. I think it takes people longer to warm up to the idea of a female president. It is seen by a lot of people as being radically different then the status quo. Obama is still a guy and so that is not as much of a change... he just looks different then the other men we've had as president. Now having a president with breasts and a vagina is totally different for a lot of people. This is because they think women are like aliens compared to men. There's no telling what sort of crazy things a woman would do as president.

[onecaliberal]

7. I don't need a repuke to tell me hillary is dishonest and weak. I think she is dishonest because I

hear lies come out of her own mouth repeatedly. I think she's weak, because 67% think she's a liar. AND she's under FBI investigation, a VERY legitimate investigation.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

8. I am a Bernie supporter and will vote for someone whose ideals are like my own.

Neither Trump or Hillary do that.

[DookDook]

12. Exactly!

I am not a one issue voter, but to take just one issue, I'm against capital punishment. It goes against everything I believe in, therefore, I really can't support a candidate if they support capital punishment. I always thought that the Democratic party was against capital punishment and I'll not support any candidate that they put forward who supports it.

I'll be voting in November for either Bernie Sanders or the most progressive candidate on the ballot. Let's all cross our fingers and hope that if Secretary Clinton is the nominee she has an epiphany and realizes that in the end you can't eat money and maybe we should take care of the planet, then I'll be able to proudly vote for her, but anyway, as I said, I'll be voting for the candidate that has ideals that are like my own, and that's not Trump.

And also, a vote for a candidate is a vote for a candidate, I don't buy into any of that, "if you don't vote for our Hillary Clinton you are really voting for Trump." If you vote for Hillary Clinton you are voting for Hillary Clinton, not against Donald Trump. The electoral college really doesn't care about your intention, just the name you picked.

[mattvermont]

15. ^^^^^^^^^^^^that up there!

[bloom]

9. Bernie has had the effect

of making people more extreme - to expect or even demand extremity.

I think there are plenty of DUers who would have been pro-Hillary pre-Bernie, who are now too idealistic or whatever to vote for her now.

[Fawke Em]

18. He's not made anyone more extreme!

He's simply addressed issues that REAL PEOPLE have been facing for 30 plus years, but which have never been dealt with by the two party system wherein both sides are beholden to corporate interests that simply don't consider our problems real.

What Bernie talks about are the issues the average person wants to talk about but has never been allowed to get passed the corporate media censors. Hell, we're still having trouble doing that even with a candidate that's picking up 46 percent of the Democratic Party's votes!

[CobaltBlue]

11. bloom—This Dr. Ruth should ask that of Hillary’s primaries voters plus…

the superdelegates of never-elected people like lobbyists and current and former Democratic officeholders who got on board for Hillary Clinton before the first scheduled primary—Iowa was on February 01, 2016.

How about their unintended consequences?

[basselope]

13. It's NOT Bernie or Bust.

At least for most of the people I know (including myself) who will not vote for Hillary.

I have not been a member of the Democratic party for many years.

I didn't vote for Kerry or Obama. The democratic party left me behind in in the 1990s.

I voted for Gore in 2000 and then organized and campaigned for Dean in 03/04. After it became apparent that the DLC was firmly in control.. I haven't voted for a democrat since and had absolutely no plans to vote for a democrat in this election UNLESS someone new came along.

They did. His name is Bernie Sanders and I switched my registration just to make sure there was no confusion and I could cast my vote for him.

If he doesn't get the nomination. I'm not voting for a democrat, as I originally planned.

So, no, it's not "Bernie or Bust".. it's Bernie or I'm voting the way I originally planned.

[Nye Bevan]

17. He needs to start trying to calm things down a little.

Enthusiasm and energy is one thing. Throwing chairs and screaming the "b" word at Senator Boxer is quite another.

[Fawke Em]

20. No one threw a chair.

[Nye Bevan]

24. Has the New York Times issued a correction yet?

Thrown chairs. Leaked cellphone numbers. Death threats spewed across the Internet.
No, this is not the work of Donald J. Trump supporters, some of whom have harassed critics of the presumptive Republican presidential nominee. It was angry supporters of Senator Bernie Sanders who were directing their ire at the Nevada Democratic Party — and its chairwoman, Roberta Lange — over a state convention on Saturday that they think was emblematic of a rigged political system.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/17/us/politics/bernie-sanders-supporters-nevada.html?_r=0

[SheenaR]

19. I have a slight issue with....

Don’t buy into the the fantasy that the Republicans have been creating for years, that Hillary is dishonest or weak. We have seen time after time, in one expensive and unwarranted investigation after the next, that she is neither.

[NorthCarolina]

21. "the superdelegates are not going to go against the majority of the Democratic voters"

What about in the Biden switcheroo scenario should that become necessary?