There was no justification for any hardline tactics in support of HRC at the NV Dem convention.

[Ken Burch]

Even if delegation control had flipped from HRC to Bernie, it wasn't going to make any significant difference in how the overall nominating contest played out.

And there was no reason for anyone to go in and flip the voter registration of those 64 Sanders delegates and use the involuntary flipping as a justification for de-credentialing them.

It simply wasn't worth whatever was gained, and it wasn't worth causing the ugliness and the bitter taste in the mouths of young progressive activists.

[Kang Colby]

1. False. "Everyone gets a trophy" doesn't apply to delegate math. That's not how the real world works.

Bernie lost Nevada, his supporters need to learn to cope with reality.

[Ken Burch]

4. There was no justification for ruling against the Sanders side on floor votes

when it was obvious that their side had won those votes. And there was no justification for any of the ways the convention chairman presided over things.

We're talking about a total of 35 delegates. There is no reason to be a hardass over a delegation that small. It's not worth it. And in doing it, you reinforced the "leave politics to the grown-ups" attitude young people think Clinton's campaign exemplifies.

Your side should have been better than that.

[Kang Colby]

8. Why do you say that? Do you believe it's true?

A) Clinton won Nevada - do you agree?
B) The Sanders supporters who showed up weren't actually registered Democrats and were thus ineligible.

Case closed.

[Ken Burch]

17. The Sander supporters WERE registered Dems...they had not changed their registrations.

They wouldn't have come to the state convention if they had re-registered as non-Democrats.

[LiberalFighter]

23. So the Sanders' reps on the Credential Committee were in cahoots

against Sanders too?

[Vincardog]

45. The Sander's reps who were denied admittance and couldn't get past the armed guards? Those reps?

[truedelphi]

48. Where are you getting that?

Here is what us sanders supporters are watching and reading:

...dex=74&list=WL

"Roberta Lange stole this," said someone named Matt in the comments section of this article, about Chairwoman of the Nevada State Democratic Party & member of the DNC Executive Committee Roberta Lange: "It was not democracy. We had a motion for Recount on the Floor, Roberta ignored it, and called a motion to adjurn the meeting and then Ran out, even though the Nays won it. She did that on purpose, she is a crook, and needs to be kicked out of her position as Nevada Democratic Chair Woman. I am officially registering as an Independent, I was considering voting Hillary if I had to over Trump, she just changed my mind. She just proved Democrats are Crooks.""

[auntpurl]

73. At least one did

https://np.reddit.com/r/NevadaForSanders/comments/4jd7nq/where_is_everybody/d35vi8d?context=1
(The post is deleted, but I saw a screen shot which I can't currently find - the poster said he'd unregistered is a fit of disgust and didn't realise he then couldn't vote in the caucus - the replies make it clear)

I've certainly heard loads of people on DU say they're going to change their registration to be non-Democrats after their state's primary process. It doesn't seem out of the question. A surprising number of Bernie supporters seem new to the political process.

[rhett o rick]

55. Clinton corruption will catch up with her. They are arrogant to us at their peril.

Unlike the Clinton followers, we will not heel or kneel. The Clinton followers have the Oligarchy on their side but we The People will prevail.

[grasswire]

46. Authoritarians gotta rule. nt

[Ash_F]

27. The party should follow its own rules.

[Kang Colby]

29. I agree, and the rules were followed. n/t

[Ash_F]

30. Nope

We all saw the video. That was not a properly conducted floor vote.

[Kang Colby]

32. Please cite line and verse where there was a deviation from party rules.

You can't.

[Ash_F]

34. I'll link you to someone who knows better than you

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511976732

[Kang Colby]

38. That's not specific. You can't offer a floor motion if you are ineligible. I'm not going to explain

it...trust me, all rules were followed, I's dotted and T's crossed.

[Ash_F]

39. I will take the congressman's account over random internet poster. Thank you

[Kang Colby]

41. Why? Google the rules or ask a Nevada party official to provide you with the handbook.

While I don't support Bernie, I'm not here to mislead. Not everything in life is some grand conspiracy orchestrated by the DNC.

[Ash_F]

43. When you give a floor vote, there has to be a clear majority

At that point, by all accounts, there were clearly way more Sander's supporters in the room. No one is arguing against this, not even the speaker. She has not spoken to the press, and we all saw the video.

Even Clinton supporters who were there, such as the Congressman I linked to, understand this.

[Kang Colby]

71. You can't vote on floor motions if you are ineligible. n/t

[Ash_F]

75. Everyone in the room was "deemed" eligible

Way to think before banging your keyboard.

[frylock]

82. "Everyone gets a trophy" is more right-wing language.

You people don't even bother to try and hide it anymore.

[Txbluedog]

2. I just don't see why the Clinton campaign would do that....

I think the rules were followed and the Bernie delegates were not properly credentials but wanted a pass just because

[seabeyond]

14. Of course Clinton wouldn't. She has to be pure as snow called, accused on everything. Real or not. N

[grasswire]

47. hahahahahahahahahahaha!

"Clinton" and "pure as snow" ---- a juxtaposition rarely seen.

[Kang Colby]

40. That's exactly what happend. They had the nerve to try and change the rules on the fly via a floor

motion and it went nowhere. Then they decided to throw a temper tantrum.

[winter is coming]

3. It wasn't "hardline tactics". It wasn't "chaos".

It was cheating. It was fraud. And you're right, it will cost both Hillary and the Party more than could possibly have been gained.

Hillary is her own worst enemy, but some of her supporters are running a close second.

[silvershadow]

59. The Grand Disenfranchisement Primary marches on...lockstep. nt

[dchill]

5. It must have been worth something...

To somebody. The cheating and strong arming started on Feb 20th and kept up through right now. A lot of it on video. They seem rather proud of themselves.

[msongs]

6. the "ugliness and bitterness" were personal behavioral choices by the not that young

protestors

[Ken Burch]

13. There was no reason for the convention to be run arrogantly.

The convention chair is supposed to be totally neutral in a presidential nominating contest, anyway.

And some were not young, but they had every right to feel their side was being treated unjustly.

We're talking about a total of 35 delegates here. Why even do hardball over a delegation that small?

And why has it never been enough for you to just make a positive case for YOUR candidate? Why has your tactic, throughout this campaign, been to bait people and sneer at them? There is nothing the Sanders supporters here have ever done to you to deserve that from you.

You're hurting your candidate by being like that...you are making it harder to unify the party behind her if she DOES win. She won't be entitled to just demand unified support after her supporters have used these tactics. What you SHOULD be doing is trying a conciliatory approach and acknowledging, even if you don't support Bernie, the validity of the points his campaign and the Sanders movement have raised-rather than just getting all "you kids get off my lawn" about the whole thing.

[pmorlan1]

42. I agree with you

and your use of the word "sneering" is spot on. It's almost as if they want all Bernie supporters to become Bernie or busters. I don't get it. It's the weirdest campaign tactic I've ever seen. When I worked on Bill Clinton's '92 campaign I didn't see any of this crap.

[grasswire]

76. it comes from the top

David Brock and Sid Blumenthal are known for their vicious, sneering style.

And Hillary is often dinged by that in herself, too. It's why a majority of people just don't like her.

They just can't seem to help themselves.

[sandyshoes17]

79. I can't believe these are fellow democrats

The posts I read here just push me further away. I'm a life long dem and never in my life would I believe that the party would go so far right that I wouldn't recognize it any more. I feel like I'm reading posts from republicans. It's really gotten bad. They very rarely use words like liberal and progressive.

[pmorlan1]

80. I'm with you

My first vote as a Democrat was in 1976. I've worked on a number of campaigns including Bill Clinton's campaign in '92. I went to his inaugural and one of the balls. I've traveled to swing states to work on getting out the vote. I also worked on the Kerry/Edwards website. I've never voted for a non-Democrat for president but even I'm wavering this year.

[Cheese Sandwich]

7. It's worth it for them to establish the principal of literally dictatorship in the Democratic Party

It never was about a few delegates. It's about controlling the process.

The establishment doesn't want an expectation of democracy or fairness at the state conventions. They are making a point. Conventions are not going to be a place for debate, or a place for elected delegates to set the party rules and bylaws.

They do not want any grassroots movement getting a foothold in the party committees. It could threaten their control down the road.

They want it so the party bigwigs set the rules, and the delegates just rubber stamp it. They want a theater display of democracy, but not the real thing.

[LiberalFighter]

26. Dictatorship involves breaking the rules.

The State Party gets to make the rules because it is their event.

[Cheese Sandwich]

36. No it doesn't. Dictators love rules.

The party didn't allow the traditional workings of the convention to operate, with floor motions and all that stuff.

Instead the executive committee made a rule that pretty much turned the party chair into a dictator. Maybe you call that following the rules. OK. And that's why people were mad.

That is what happened according to several credible eye witness accounts from experienced attendees. And it matches what we saw with our eyes on the videos.

https://www.facebook.com/AdryennAshley/videos/10153761545822695/

[truedelphi]

49. All I know is I will be at the Million Person March, in Philly

for the Convention.

They can break the rules over my dead body, if that is how it has to be!

[Codeine]

77. Your dead body?

/revision/latest?cb=20150324022530

[99th_Monkey]

9. Actually it was probably "worth it" to HRC: For them, it's a three-fer.

Last edited Mon May 16, 2016, 11:54 PM - Edit history (1)

1) they pick up even more delegates, AND
2) they get to excessively provoke Bernie supporters enough to create chaos.
3) They get to whine & play victims of "those mean Bernie supporters"

Quite a feat actually.

I agree there isn't any justification for this ethically or morally, but just sayin,
it's become a net "win" for HRC, rewarding them for going ugly.

[grasswire]

50. smash mouth politics, Brock -- Blumenthal style. nt

[silvershadow]

60. The first primary powered by Caterpillar. :( (No offense to CAT). nt

[truedelphi]

52. But it will not at all change the way Karmic Retribution will come for Hillary.

Karmic Retribution occurred once before in my Lifetime,.

Remember Mandela's ascension into office? Mandela "logically speaking" should never have gotten that top spot in South Africa. But it happened.

And it is the turn of all of us who really want a return to True Democracy to create the Ripples that become the Wave that become a Bernie Presidency.The Collective Manifestation of every man woman and child whose lives have been ripped asunder by the neo cons, all of us will be pining for having what is needed to happen on such levels of intensity that it will happen.

It is already in place.

[99th_Monkey]

62. I like how you think re the Karmic Retribution. Cool. nt

[truedelphi]

63. It's really not me - it's the people I hang with

And kuhl they are!

[NuclearDem]

19. No, you won't.

At this point, your candidate is going to be lucky if he gets a speaking slot at the convention or gets to keep his committee assignments. The Nevada state party has already decided to warn the national party that Sanders supporters have a penchant for violence, and all it's going to take is for one person "feeling the Bern" to do something in Philadelphia for Sanders to be unceremoniously kicked out.

[NuclearDem]

11. Ever the victim.

Sanders supporters riot, threaten the lives of Democratic Party officials, and end up forcing the end of the convention and the closure of Democratic Party offices due to security concerns...

...and they're the victims.

Good fucking grief.

[Ken Burch]

15. There was protest, not a riot, and the protest happened only after provocation,

The presiding officer at a state political convention has an obligation to be neutral and to be fair to both sides.

[NuclearDem]

20. No, it was a riot.

And no, you're still not the victims. Once again, you're the instigators.

[AgingAmerican]

56. There was no riot

And Hillary supporters pompously and ignorantly started the whole thing with their blatant cheating, which they have been caught at once again.

[truedelphi]

66. All very reminiscent of that famous

Dean scream!

[sadoldgirl]

24. Please, give proof or video for your accusations!

Otherwise they should be considered slanderous lies.

[JimDandy]

35. Put up video of a 'riot or quit your smears. n/t

[grasswire]

51. Wah! Did someone beat Hillary to the victim status? nt

[seabeyond]

12. But it is worth stating for a fact those registrations were flipped when you damn well do not know!

[Ken Burch]

16. Those people had all registered as Democrats for the caucuses. NONE had changed their registrations

If they had, they would simply not have shown up.

[seabeyond]

21. We had one state he did saying he hadnt realized he need to be registered Dem for this.

One admitted it. Not all 64 was about flip registeration, only a small number. 64 were denied and 8 able to prove data were allowed to sit. Others were suppose to provide data and didn't when they were contacted. 8 of Clinton's weren't allowed either.

[Codeine]

78. You're categorically wrong about that.

There have even been admissions by Sanders people that they dropped their Democratic status.

[ucrdem]

18. Nobody "flipped"any voter registrations. They weren't Democrats, and they got caught.

The real question is, who where they and why were they there?

[Ken Burch]

22. They were registered voters from Nevada. There was nothing illicit going on.

The Sanders campaign doesn't do dirty tricks. We've been above-board on everything throughout this campaign.

[ucrdem]

25. Were they registered Democrats? No. Who were they then? Who recruited them how?

What were they doing there? Those are the questions I'd like answered.

[Ken Burch]

33. They were elected delegates. You're making it sound like some sort of conspiracy was afoot.

They were legitimately elected delegates and they had registered as Democrats. Their registrations were changed in the state elections system database.

[Ken Burch]

54. Nobody "recruited" them. They were registered voters(registered Dems)who support Bernie

There is nothing else there.

There was nothing illegitimate in their presence.

[AgingAmerican]

57. They were there because they were delegates

And the whole thing happened when Hillarys people cheated. They cheated OPENLY so your denials are about as genuine as a laugh track on Gilligans island.

[ucrdem]

68. But they weren't Democrats. That's cheating. And they got caught. nt

[frylock]

83. Have you asked Alex Jones?

[sadoldgirl]

28. The HRC supporters know the truth, but they

have to find cover for their queen, to make her
little snow white, yet at the same time show
the power that the Dem. establishment holds.

[ucrdem]

31. LOL, yes we do, and it isn't pretty.

[jillan]

37. All that was accomplished Saturday night was more Bernie supporters

vowing never to support Hillary Clinton. All over a five delegate gain.

I hope it was worth it to her campaign.

[kiva]

61. Nevada was purple.

Now I'm pretty sure it's red.

[Jarqui]

44. Some of this stuff reminds me a bit of the Watergate break-in

because it wasn't necessary either. Nixon was already headed to a landslide victory.

I'm not saying Hillary is as bad as Nixon but they do have a lot in common.

The term flip-flop was first used in Nixon's era for his flip-flop on wage and price controls (and on the Vietnam war, etc). I can't think of any politician who has done it as brazenly and as frequently as Hillary.

Both are well known for lying (Hillary's untrustworthy polls).

Nixon, it has been alleged with some evidence, undermined the Vietnam peace talks and kept the war going for several more years. Hillary voted for the Iraq war. It could be argued both supported war for their own personal political gain or reasons - until Hillary flip-flopped to be against the war for her own personal political gain or reasons.

Both were known for alleged dirty tricks in campaigns. "Tricky Dick" Nixon's dirty tricks ultimately cost him the presidency when he didn't need to do them. Nevada is at the end of a fairly long list of allegations of dirty tricks done by Hillary's campaign that started against Obama in 2008. And at this juncture, they're unnecessary if we're to believe her campaign's math argument (which is difficult to refute).

Does that mean I'm lobbying for Trump? No chance. Can't stand that racist meathead.

I protested Nixon and his flip-flop support for the Vietnam war. I couldn't stand his dishonesty, his flip-flopping, his dirty tricks or his war mongering. He was the first president I really disliked. Now, I'm being asked to hold my nose and support a liar, flip-flopper, and war supporter who reminds us of all that when her campaign pulls dirty tricks like this Nevada convention delegate sleaze - because she's a "democrat" (that I see as Republican lite).

And when I question this hypocrisy I'm being asked to commit or lay it bare to talk about, I'm in danger of being banned or getting my post hidden because I exercised first amendment rights on a democratic forum.

Cut some of us a little slack. From where I sit, things look pretty f**ked up and I'm having a struggle with it.

[MFM008]

53. IF you cant properly register

as a DEMOCRAT , by the correct date, place and time then drawing a line in an arrow or marking a BOX
may be to high in the skills department for you.

[ContinentalOp]

58. Exactly!

You have just perfectly explained why the conspiracy theories are so ridiculous.

[Hekate]

64. HRC WON THE CAUCUS IN FEBRUARY.

Golly gee, when someone wants to join a club (or a political Party), they should at least acquaint themselves with the rules, such as how to sign up and how to sign up on time.

Not go in and throw chairs and bottles around like a damn preschool group tantrum.

[2cannan]

85. Then didn't Sanders win the second step in the process in April?

Sanders wins most delegates at Clark County convention
http://lasvegassun.com/news/2016/apr/02/sanders-wins-most-delegates-at-clark-county-conven/

The county convention was the second in a three-step process for Nevada to choose its delegates to send to the Democratic National Convention this summer. The first was the February caucuses, the results of which are used to apportion 23 of the delegates Nevada will send to the national convention. The second step, the county convention, is when delegates are selected to the state convention in May. The third step is the state convention, when 12 more delegates are apportioned based on attendees’ preferences.

[hellofromreddit]

65. I'll tell you exactly what's going on. Baiting.

An effective way to discredit any group is to bait them until they react and then play the victim card.

So, treat the Bernie delegates like garbage, trot Barbara Boxer out there to shush them like a bunch of little kids, and plaster the forums and airwaves with the worst reactions and present them as if they're unprovoked and typical.

There's no conspiracy. It's just assholes being assholes. They learned it in grade school.

[winter is coming]

67. And to guarantee it goes over, seed your audience with plants. n/t

[TheFarS1de]

72. Next thing you know

they will be buying internet trolls .... hang on There is no depth low enough for Brock .

[Waiting For Everyman]

74. Yes, the standard smear.

I read that as lots of adjectives, but most of all WEAK and a tactic of LOSERS.

Cheating isn't winning.

[senz]

69. A calm, complete video explanation of what happened in Nevada.

[joshcryer]

70. Given that the credentials committee was staffed by both...

...campaigns I think their disqualification was completely on the up and up.

What Sanders failed to do was get all those delegate candidates to show up. Clinton had 93%, Sanders had 70 something %.

[dana_b]

81. This young Hillary voter agrees with you:

https://www.facebook.com/shelbyhagensmith/videos/10154184401226241/

From FB so sorry there is no youtube video link

[Ken Burch]

84. Good for her. It shows character. n/t.