On the Nevada dispute, it's alleged that the Chair, Roberta Lange did something illegal

[CreekDog]

Please tell us what law was broken and what the sentencing for that act should be, given her actions.

Since people can't be sentenced simply because you don't like what they did, we'll be needing some statutes and codes and examples of sentencing.

Any blah blah without that is just your way of saying you're unhappy without any evidence of criminal wrongdoing.

[NWCorona]

1. It's hard to do something illegal when you write the rules.

[CreekDog]

2. What law did she write?

This should be good.

[NWCorona]

3. Did I say law? I said rules.

[CreekDog]

6. This thread is about whether she did anything illegal, as some are alleging

I understand you think she acted improperly with respect to the procedures of the meeting, I disagree with that without proper evidence.

That said, it appears you're saying she didn't do anything illegal, as in a violation of law, federal, state or local.

Thank you for clarifying that.

[Meteor Man]

4. Robert's Rules of Order

And the rules of the Nevada Democratic Party were violated.

Please take two mood tranquilizers and take the rest of the month off.

[CreekDog]

5. There is a thread here that says she did something illegal

So you're saying you disagree that she did anything illegal.

Your disagreement with her is that she didn't follow the procedures for that forum, correct?

Just to confirm, you don't think she did anything illegal.

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. Have you ever attended a public meeting?

if you have, have you ever read Roberts Rules of Oder? I would start there. As to whether it is illegal in the state that is a whole different wicket of wax. Since this is a private organization apparently violating it's own internal rules. Happens. Prosecutable I am not familiar with the law of the state of nevada insofar as this. I now in CA a private organization, unless a non profit, can pretty much do whatever.

What happened though adds to the cloud of illegitimacy of this primary season and the worst part is, not needed.

[CreekDog]

8. Thank you for pointing out that you don't know of anything illegal about what she did

Since others are making the accusation that she did something illegal, it is helpful for people to come here and point out that her actions didn't violate any laws to the best of your knowledge.

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. There is a difference between what is ilegal in law

and what is unethical. Right now I don't expect my vote to count, and I will pretend to vote in a pretend election. That is what these shenanigans are causing. They did not start now, they really started in 2000. But one consequence of this shit, is that people stay home. You ignore this at your peril, or not, I particularly don't give two shits about it. But if the "election" is "stolen" from her in November, don't ask for my sympathy.

The only reason why I will pretend to still vote, in case it mistakenly counts, are some down ballot initiatives and people who I actually do know who are on the ballot. Suffice it to say, the top ticket, I consider it now fully compromised. I am not alone.

[CreekDog]

11. why is it unethical? changing the rules requires a 2/3rds vote

why should protestors be able to change the rules without the votes?

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. When you put something in for a vote on the floor, you do not second it yourself

that is like basic Roberts Rules of Order. That is where you start to see the problems at a process level. And trust me, I have seen some meetings, public meetings that are this bad... usually it is the planning board somewhere where most members are so new they do not know the rules. Once I actually had the chair, first meeting, never done in his life, ask about very basic things like that. He assumed, correctly, that we reporters there for the entertainment, would know. So we all kind of gave him a crash course in the very basic, and then helped him find the rules in Kindle, and all of them got the book that night. So none of us reported on the things that were out of order, but they admitted. they had no clue.

Then in Nevada they started to take votes before the credentials process was over. To the point that a CLINTON delegate walked out, and a few HRC supporters stood with Sanders supporters, as far as I have been able to piece this together. So even people on the floor knew something was amiss.

By the way I do not believe the chair was that new, or greenhorn. If she was, ok I get it... but then the other question is why have such a greenhorn in charge?

People who chair things like that, have been doing this for years. That is the truth, and are used to running party meetings, as raucous as they can become at times.

And as I said it has gotten so blatant that I am back in Mexico, where we joked about the corruption of the Presidency and elections. I will still pretend to vote, because that is what we used to do in Mexico. None in my cohort, as far as I know, expected it to really be counted. A few tortas and a few cokes and the boxes were stuffed. All the shenanigans are very familiar at this point, including the changing of registration status, though that would not be Mexico, Those are managed down there by the parties, not the state. The shenanigans, they are just electronic and by other means.

Now here is your problem, and it is a process problem... it is called legitimacy. And when enough people believe the corruption is that bad, in the US they stay home. In Mexico we were stubborn I suppose... or my civics instructors were very effective, or going to the ballots with my mother as a kid, any of those is good. Take your pick.

As I said, I have no idea if NV law regulates a private entity, I know in the public sector what happened there could lead not to criminal charges, but to issues going into civil matters, perhaps even a lawsuit, civil lawsuit. And that would be in CA, and under the Brown Act. And for the record, I have reported on violations of the brown act. It is inversely proportional, seriously, to the size of the body. The smaller they are, and farther from the city, the more you are likely to see them.

Starting in 2000 legitimacy keeps getting a pounding. Here. That is a report to the POTUS in 2014. I got a hard copy.

https://www.supportthevoter.gov/files/2014/01/Amer-Voting-Exper-final-draft-01-09-14-508.pdf

[CreekDog]

13. the rules were created by a committee of 3 Sanders and 3 Clinton supporters

if you think that was unfair and should have been overruled because people shouted, then I suspect you don't know Robert's Rules any better than you don't know Nevada laws.

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. You do not put something on the floor and second it yourself

that is a no-no under Roberts.

And if you think it is normal procedure, I will repeat myself. When this is stolen in November, becuase I agree with Palast, all this is a dress rehearsal... do not ask for sympathy. You will get a full violin and viola concerto.

You either care about this crap all the time, or you don't. You are either pregnant or you are not. It is kind of the same thing. And at this point... I am not the only person who considers the top of the ticket not legitimate. Or expects a dirty election anymore. As I said, I vote to remain in practice, because it really does not matter.

[Electric Monk]

17. Please read this, then get back to us. Thanks.

The fundamental right of deliberative assemblies require all questions to be thoroughly discussed before taking action.

Silence means consent.

http://www.robertsrules.org/

[CreekDog]

18. Discussing all issues thoroughly was not in the rules, nor was there time to do so

The rules created by a committee of 3 Sanders and 3 Clinton supporters specified very limited terms for debate.

Those were the rules.

[snagglepuss]

10. "I did not have sex with that woman."..."Define "it""

The fact that something isn't illegal doesn't make it right.

[CreekDog]

14. to say it's illegal you have to prove it's illegal

to say it's wrong, you have to prove it's wrong.

[lumberjack_jeff]

16. "Illegal"? Perhaps not. But the Roberts rules evolved because duels fell out of favor. n/t

[CreekDog]

19. the convention itself had rules which governed what could be debated

and how long each item or person had.

i'm not sure why democratically created rules should be overruled because people are yelling the word "b-tch".

[azurnoir]

20. Party rules are not laws but I never cease to marvel at how one dynasty manages to always find

the gap between ethics and legality and fit itself in that space so very nicely