What it comes down to is this : if HRC has 'locked up

[merbex]

Then why fight so hard for 1 or 2 delegates out of NV?

You want unity?

You give up the 1 or 2 delegates to the guy supposedly trailing you, your supporters and everyone plays nice , by the rules, and in the long run, you planted the seeds of UNITY.

But no, let's cheat, railroad , ignore proper procedures all over 1 or 2 delegates .

What's that going to get you?

Alienation of activists that could last through November .

What pisspoor judgment .

And it is happening seemingly in state after state.

There are no words except: corrupt cronyism .

[Dr Hobbitstein]

1. So, treat Bernie like a child and let him have a few?

Rules are meant to be followed, not adjusted for the person who isn't winning to make his supporters feel better.

[merbex]

4. Do you follow Robert's Rules? Do you KNOW

What happened in NV?

Until you do , and there is plenty of stuff to check out, I will put you down as condoning cheating.

Got it.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

11. I do know what happend.

65 Bernie delegates were in doubt. 58 of those ended up disqualified due to party registration and/or address/location issues.

Then a bunch of babies threw a hissy-fit over it and claimed conspiracy.

[Fawke Em]

14. In doubt because their registrations "magically" changed.

Exactly how are people supposed to act when they've been wronged?

Are they supposed to sit down and shut up?

I don't know about you, but I'm 46 - hardly a child - and I still have that emotion known as anger. It's a human emotion. And when I feel wronged, I don't just sit and stew. That would give me indigestion or a heart attack.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

19. Yes, it's a vast conspiracy.

Except when it's not. Here's one of those delegates, who, in his infinite wisdom, decided to change his registration before the state primary. I'm sure he wasn't alone. And of course, all of them were not party affiliation related. Some couldn't even prove their residency.

[scscholar]

56. Refuse to be a member of the party,...

don't be surprised when we don't let you decide on the future of the party.

[bvar22]

67. That is ONE, and if your post is credible (and not a Brock false flag), then he was/is a dumbass.

But HOW do you explain the 63 others?

[karynnj]

21. You do know their registrations were checked in the earlier round

They changed between being selected as delegates to being at the state convention. Now, are you arguing that 58 people actually CHANGED their registration when they KNEW they were going to the State Democratic convention?

(The address issue is not one I have heard - but it seems unlikely that if their addresses checked at the earlier stage they are suddenly wrong. )

[Dr Hobbitstein]

22. As many Bernie supporters I have seen who, after voting, said they changed their registration to

spite the DNC? Yes. I'd believe that. Also of note is that in the last round in NV, Bernie gained a few and Hillary lost a few. Now it's evened itself back out.

[libdem4life]

23. Good lord. The Conspiracy of it all. Spite the DNC???? LOL

What will these silly folks do? Scan a copy of their New Registration to the DNC with the message that goes something like...."See there, take that."

Now that will sting.

ETA: You know this personally...from people you've actually spoken to? Hmmm.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

24. No one accused Bernie or Busters of being intelligent. nt

[libdem4life]

25. You didn't answer the question. Try again?

[WolverineDG]

37. It hurts the DNC's pocketbook

they love to slam Texas & treat Texas Dems like shit, but boy do they love our money!

[libdem4life]

38. Yes of course...that's how they roll.

But a few people dropping the DNC ...kind of like a drop in the bucket, IMO.

[karynnj]

26. I'll agree with the evened itself back out and the number of delegates that shifted is tiny

compared to the number Bernie needs.

I would think that ANYONE who was selected as a delegate and was intending to attend would not, at that point, change their registration. It makes no sense.

I have stayed out of caucus threads because I had nothing to add. However, I have a daughter, who was a selected as a delegate to her Washington state district and county caucuses. Her account, which I did not add then because I did not think it my right to share (when I told her that, she said she had no problem) was similar to the comments on DU threads.

In Washington, it seems the numbers of delegates remained what they should have been, but from her accounts, the party people running things were disorganized, yelled at people, and were totally ready for Hillary! She spoke of one delegate at the district level one, who was running for office herself who was allowed to advocate for her own election. After speaking, people from her district asked who she supported for President and she would not answer. From her delegation, people learned that she had been selected as a Bernie delegate but was now for HRC - and they suspected she always had been, but her district was all Bernie. It didn't make a difference in the state delegates, but my daughter was appalled by the dishonesty. She pointed out that she herself would not have changed, even if she personally did, because she was representing others.

At this point, like many here, she is 100% for doing away with caucuses.

One thing I wonder is that because the norm seems to be that they are a mess AND the Democratic party officials are all behind Clinton is whether the candidate (HRC) is getting blamed for the messy processes that she has nothing to do with.

[Andy823]

61. I live in Washington state

Only 5.8% of registered voters turned out for the caucus. I too want to see them do away with the caucus and just have a primary like the republicans do. We vote by mail in Washington state so we would get a lot more voters voting in a primary.

[eridani]

63. That will never happen unless we get voter registration by party n/t

[azurnoir]

41. ah ya right Bernie supporters/delegates change their registration so they can not vote for him

I'd say back to the drawing board with that one

[beedle]

28. Yes rules are meant to be followed

You are aware that the rules being changed were not because Bernie or his delegates wanted them changed ... the rules being changed were to prevent the country caucuses (the part that Bernie won, following the rules) from counting.

Those people who were supposedly not registered Democrats, most of them (58) were not even given a chance to see why they were rejected, let alone correct the record or appeal.

----

Rules ar emeant to be followed until they benefit Hillary .. FFS, at the end when the Hillary executive refused to let the credentials committee co-chair present the minority report, even Hillary supporters started to see how fucked up the convention leadership was and started chanting with the Bernie supporters to all the minority report to be read .. and the convention leadership still refused.

Don't be lecturing Bernie supporters about 'rules', not when Hillary surrogates are so blatant in their disregard for the fucking rules.

[onehandle]

2. It was worst when they tried to cheat, got caught, then threw chairs.

Oh, wait...

[SheilaT]

3. Yep. If she really has the lock on the nomination,

her supporters are behaving in ways that don't make sense.

We keep on being told that she's already won -- we were told that before Iowa and New Hampshire. A brief history lesson here: She won Iowa by two-tenths of one percent, and lost New Hampshire. And Bernie has been nipping at her heels ever since.

No one is suggesting Bernie be treated like a child. Rather, the Hillarybots need to behave like adults and concede the various things they've actually lost. Instead they bully, lie, and steal.

[merbex]

6. Yes n/t

[YouDig]

8. Bernie supporters were the ones throwing chairs. Hillary supporters were following the rules.

It seems that Bernie's followers, knowing he can't win, are now just going to try to disrupt conventions and do whatever they can to help damage the Democratic party and get Trump elected.

[apcalc]

17. they can't follow rules....and when called on it

Stomp their feet, yell , call people names, , throw things....

[beedle]

29. Hillary supporters DID NOT follow the rules

You're confused listening to the fucked Hillary media who got it totally wrong on who was 'changing the rules'.

There's lots of information available, but DU Hillary supporters are just too lazy to bother to go looking for it.

BACKGROUND INFO:

Nevada Caucus - has 3 tiers, 3rd tier wins state/delegates:

1st Tier (main televised caucus Feb 20th): Hillary won
2nd Tier (April 2nd): flipped to Bernie
3rd Tier (May 14th): last night's shitshow

(1st Tier Feb 20th problem: At the county level convention 20% of the voters at the original caucus were missing valid ballots. So 20% of the delegates were up for grabs. That means Hillary did not legitimately win the first round of caucus and that is an important factor everyone is leaving out. - Thanks to /u/vamub for pointing this out.)

Shady rule-changing prior to last night:

Nevada Democratic Party knew that based on the 2nd Tier vote, the 3rd Tier would probably go to Bernie. They didn't want this. So they changed some rules around!

Changed the Nevada Democratic Party rules so that Nevada's delegates would be awarded to the winner of the Feb 20th 1st Tier (ie Hillary).

However, they also knew that educated people would try to make motions at the convention to object to this rule, and that those motions would probably pass! So....

They also changed the Nevada Democratic Party rules so that all votes on the floor of the convention would be decided ONLY by a voice vote (all in favor say "aye", etc), and that the results of that voice vote would be decided ONLY by Nevada Democratic Party Chair Roberta Lange, and that her say was FINAL.

When you heard people talk about "Temporary Rules" last night, it was referring to these rules.

WHAT HAPPENED YESTERDAY:

"Temporary Rules" debacle:

Item #1 on agenda of convention was to vote for these "Temporary Rules" to pass. This was conducted by paper ballot.

Vote was supposed to be held after convention started, but instead it was held immediately at 10 am early at 9:30 when not everyone was inside the convention and not everyone who was inside had ballots. But you know who was inside and had all their ballots ready? All the Hillary earlybirds (early-hawks) that knew this vote was going to happen early. Vote passed.

Motion to have a re-vote of the Temporary Rules was demanded by citizens. Nevada Democratic Party Chair Roberta Lange instead held a voice vote that the temporary rules would stay. Some AYES, resounding NAYS. But who cares! She votes to pass it. Video of that CHILLING MOMENT here, (PS the beginning of this video is confusing because Roberta Lange is on screen, but the voice is from a woman talking OFF-screen. The voice is of a concerned citizen demanding a re-vote.) :

Sanders delegates debacle:

64 delegates were ejected from the convention because they didn't have "the proper credentials", even though they did. They weren't allowed to prove they were credentialed. Shady.

Most, if not all, of these ejected were Sanders delegates.

Therefore, Clinton won by 30 delegates. How convenient.

Highlights from the resulting daylong/nightlong shitstorm:

Barbara Boxer mocks Sanders supporters (who were objecting to how things were going down): http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/05/15/barbara_boxer_to_nevada_democrats_if_you_boo_me_youre_booing_bernie_sanders.html

Roberta Lange commandeered all mics and surrounded herself by police so that no Sanders people could get on the mic

Eventually Dan Rolle (NV 2nd Congressional District Candidate) was able to get on the mic and he made a motion to call for the removal of Roberta Lange as Chair. As soon as he made that motion, his microphone was cut immediately. Of course. Motion was ignored. Great explanation of why this motion was ignored, here. Thanks /u/wormhog! Happens at 42:40 here: https://www.periscope.tv/FenyxFX/1yNGawjozjrxj CRAP this periscope link expired - NEW LINK: Happens at 42:40 here:

?t=43m24s

Nevada Democratic Party employs stalling tactics and psychological tactics to try to force people to leave. Making them wait hours while nothing happened, playing music SUPER LOUD, charging $5 for tiny little bottles of water. People online started ordering pizza for those inside. Some pizzas got in, but once it was realized what was going on, police started intercepting the pizzas and throwing them in the dumpster. the pizzas had to be moved outside.

Jesse Sbaih (NV 3rd Congressional District Candidate) gets on microphone and makes motion for a recount to resounding cheers. Motion is ignored (it is against the rules to ignore a motion). Happens at 16:50 here:

?t=16m50s

Roberta Lange jumps onstage and in like 15 seconds makes a bunch of motions that basically say "all the shady votes that happened here tonight stand, the pro-Hillary delegate results stand, and this meeting is adjourned". She does voice votes on all this. NAYs are ridiculously louder every time. But she passes everything regardless, ignoring the nays, then runs off stage. COMPLETE CHAOS ENSUES Videos of this: From Periscope Superhero FENYXFX great video, 21:42 here:

&feature=youtu.be&t=21m42s From Adryenn Ashley - great closeup video, start at 3:50 https://www.facebook.com/AdryennAshley/videos/10153761902337695/ From Asia Zamora, this one well captures the pain and sadness of the aftermath of democracy being stolen from us, start at 2:30 though: https://www.facebook.com/asia.zamora.3/videos/1195756427101567/

Police come in and everyone is told to leave or they will get arrested. Here's a pic: https://mobile.twitter.com/Clyatt/status/731725898211151872 Video of DNC leaders running out side door: https://www.facebook.com/AlexanderLChambers/videos/1059531310749260/

RESULTS: By the rule change and delegate suppression there is a change of 8 net delegates. Instead of Bernie winning by 19-16, the result is 20-15 Clinton now. Thank you to /u/puppuli for this info!

SHOUTOUTS:

Periscope User FENYXFX - Internet Superhero of the Night!!!

Periscope User SENSESTAKER - took over for FENYXFX when his battery ran out and he had to recharge

EVERYONE who stayed up last night and helped disseminate information online.

Most of all - EVERY SINGLE GOOD, HONEST CITIZEN AT THAT CONVENTION WHO STAYED UP LATE TO REPRESENT US!!

ADDITIONAL RESOURCES:

Another great timeline from user /u/sublime_revenge https://www.reddit.com/r/SandersForPresident/comments/4jdn3y/nevada_democratic_convention_mega_thread/d36591z

Great 10 minute long explanation of events from Dan Rolle here:

Another super great video explaining what when down (thanks /u/treein303 !):

A great firsthand account of the night - thanks to friend of /u/PeopleWhoDrawStuff!

Lots of pics and videos of the night here: http://www.berniesandersvideo.com/the-nevada-democratic-convention.html

An FAQ + discussion about the nights events from a comment in /r/NevadaForSanders: https://www.reddit.com/r/NevadaForSanders/comments/4jexj9/what_happened_in_nv_today/d36fmcf

[merbex]

31. Thank you! Awesome reply and I appreciate the work that went into it n/t

[beedle]

48. It was someone else who did all the work

all I did was do a little bit of due diligence to go out and research the story for myself instead of listening to partisan hacks that claim to be journalists.

[SheilaT]

45. Thank you so very much for your post, and all the information

it contains.

If the only way Hillary can secure the nomination if for her supporters to cheat, change the rules, and systematically exclude any other supporters, than she is definitely not the favored candidate.

[azurnoir]

42. ya cause it says so on twitter and some reporter parroted the tweet about chair throwing

ummmhmmm

[YouDig]

43. Reported by AP and Washington Post. But in conspiracyville, I'm sure they are

all part of the overlord corporatist mafia.

[Kang Colby]

9. What do you mean?

I don't know what you mean by Bernie has been nipping at her heels. Bernie is over 280 pledged delegates behind at this point.

[SheilaT]

47. You all have been telling us since

the Iowa caucus, where her resounding win was an astonishing two-tenths of one percent, that she has it locked up. And somehow, the man who was polling in single digits a year ago is incredibly close to passing her in delegates.

Let's see, how have the predictions gone? He was only going to win Vermont, and maybe not even that state. He was definitely going to be completely out after Super Tuesday. He could only win caucuses. Well, maybe only open caucuses and open primaries (as if Hillary wasn't going to need support outside her core in the Democratic Party to win in November). And then he won a bunch of caucuses and primaries in a row. But they didn't count.

It was all over at the second Super Tuesday. Then at the third one. He's still in the race. She simply isn't as much of a sure thing as her supporters want to think.

Yeah, she may still get the nomination, but unless she actually does move to the left -- which I doubt will happen -- she will get very few votes from the Bernie supporters.

Meanwhile, I happen to live in a state that still hasn't voted, and I'm very much looking forward to casting a vote for Bernie Sanders next month.

[Kang Colby]

58. Bernie has done remarkable.

I don't dispute that. Despite what the media may suggest, this isn't a close race at all. Let's say he wins Oregon tomorrow 70/30. It's possible. What does he get? He nets 25 delegates.

For the good of the party, I hope he does tighten this race up in the home stretch. But I recommend not getting your hopes up. Just go and vote and ignore the noise.

[YouDig]

5. The Dem Party isn't going to let Bernie cheat just because his supporters start throwing chairs.

You think they should placate an angry violent mob of Bernie supporters? No thanks. Barbara Boxer and the Nevada Dems did the right thing.

[merbex]

7. Educate yourself as to what really happened

Enough with the David Brock spin

[YouDig]

10. I did. Bernie supporters threw chairs, are you denying that?

[Fawke Em]

18. Yes, I do, actually.

I just tried to find a video of that and can't.

I found some videos of the cash throw, but no chairs.

I Googled it and searched for it on YouTube directly. Nope. No videos. No proof.

I see some "news" outlets reporting it, but no real evidence of it.

[YouDig]

20. Wow, denying widely reported facts. Whatever it takes to keep up the conspiracy, I guess.

[grasswire]

33. I, too, would like some corroboration of thrown chairs

I suspect there's no there there.

[lumberjack_jeff]

35. Reasonable. You're talking to people who describe sidewalk chalk as "horrific vandalism", after all.

[nadinbrzezinski]

44. Never mind actual case law shows them

To be wrong. I particularly enjoy getting schooled on my own city dynamics. That was special. I mean, it's not like I don't spend time in court covering some of this shit

[B Calm]

64. Next claim will be that they were breaking bottles on top of old women heads.

[Ned_Devine]

12. View this person's profile before responding

He just signed up two weeks ago and has over 400 posts just like this one. I'll come right out and say he's a plant.

[YouDig]

13. I'm a plant! Easier to throw around accusations than to respond to facts.

[BillZBubb]

30. Brockbot says what?

[libdem4life]

39. I must say that your Screen Name lends itself to this discussion.

[YouDig]

40. Damn! I have to tell Brock to pick better ones!

[libdem4life]

49. Thought it was ironic...all in a good sense.

Hope you took it that way.

[d_legendary1]

16. You're right. Another weed.

We've been getting a lot of these ever since Brock spent that million hiring internet trolls.

[grasswire]

34. yes, dozens.

there ought to be a one month waiting period before posting is allowed.

[arcane1]

52. Indeed, that was a busy week in April!

And they're all over this place now.

[arcane1]

51. The Mid-April brigade is here to Correct the Record again!

[YouDig]

53. You're a little late this time.

[Cheese Sandwich]

15. It's not about a couple delegates. It's about keeping control of the process.

The insiders, the party bigwigs, they have control of the process. But they also have this legacy of some democratic participation with the idea that the party actually represents its members because it's internally democratic. They're making it clear that democracy can't be allowed to affect the outcome and grassroots movements can't be allowed to to use rules and democracy to have influence inside the party, for setting the internal rules and stuff. Even if they might win today, they don't want to crack the door open for that type of movement to enter. They don't want to set a precedent where the Democratic Party conventions become an actual site of political debate. They want bigwigs to set the rules, and the delegates can just rubber stamp it and put on some theater of democracy.

[libdem4life]

27. It will ultimately be their undoing. It's called Over-reach.

For one thing, it has educated lots of Democrats, myself included, about some of the finer arts of our Party.

No Populists, say the Plutocrats. We can manage just fine without all of these tacky Peasants trying to have a say.

[felix_numinous]

32. Like someone who has been cornered

and constantly on the defense, but with a lot of money and paid off resources to make a nasty fight.

[lumberjack_jeff]

36. Rembember the Brooks brothers riot? Those guys had a motive to undermine an election.

They were desperate because they were losing.

Hillary? If she's got this in the tank, there's little reason to steal elections in this way.

[reddread]

46. yep. they wanted to go into Iraq.

that was their whole game.
they didnt have that entire overthrow of the process orchestrated just to protect the Republican win record.

[FlatBaroque]

50. That's a great point merbex

I think they understand the nature and extent of their weak nominee

[Metric System]

54. Read Ralston Reports for the truth. Sanders supporters were in the wrong.

[KPN]

55. Well, when your lifelong goal is to be President ...

what do you expect?

There's a difference between wanting to do what is best for the people and wanting to be President.

[Red Oak]

57. Hillary has nothing if not bad judgement

See Iraq war et. al.

[JEB]

59. Will McCain sing "Bomb, bomb, bomb" at her coronation?

[pnwmom]

60. Hillary is playing by the rules. Bernie people want to change them because he lost. n/t

[Jim Lane]

62. If any of the Clinton people answered your very sensible question, I missed it.

In my law school course in Trial Advocacy, we learned about the rules of evidence. If the opposing counsel tries to introduce evidence that the rules render inadmissible, you can object, and have it excluded.

In addition, however, we learned that it's not always smart to object. The issue is not whether your adversary is violating the rules. The issue is what will best serve the interests of your client. There are various circumstances under which, in furtherance of that goal (your primary goal), you would refrain from objecting, and would instead allow the inadmissible testimony or document to be received in evidence.

I haven't studied either the rules applicable in Nevada or the facts of what happened at the convention. I express no opinion on the subject that the Clinton people are so keen to argue, namely, which side was in the right on the procedural point. It's clear to me, however, that the Clinton forces in Nevada lost sight of the forest for the trees. Even assuming for the sake of the argument that their position was legally correct, they did not act in their principal's interest.

Did the conduct of Clinton's allies at the Nevada convention increase, decrease, or have no effect on Clinton's chances of becoming President? I'd say their conduct decreased those chances.

[Demsrule86]

65. The principle

of not allowing the other side to steal delegates...and it is locked up...tomorrow. After all the votes are counted ...remember a win means 66%...24-100. Not going to happen and even the delusional will have to see that.

[NorthCarolina]

66. They already stole it once, so why not twice? -nt-