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bigtree

(85,996 posts)
Mon May 16, 2016, 10:40 AM May 2016

Why a 'revolution' against the Democratic 'establishment' is abhorrent to me

I'm in what I think is a unique position in my life (to many other younger folks), where I've been subject to a government which did not fully recognize or defend my rights or my citizenship as a black American.

Moreover, I've lived through a time where there was scant representation in our national government of black legislators, and the product of our government reflected that dearth of diversity. I still recall the mere handful of blacks I found in Congress when I first explored the Capitol as a young adult. I remember seeing the tall head of Rep. Ron Dellums, ever present on the House floor, and imagining that there were many more like him in the wings. It wasn't until 1990, though, that we actually saw a significant influx of minorities elected to Congress, enabled by the 1990 census Democrats fought to reform and manage (along with their fight for an extension of the Voting Rights Act which Bush I vetoed five times before trading his signature for votes for Clarance Thomas) which allowed court-ordered redistricting to double the number of districts with black majorities.

Now, in my 50's, I'm living through a time where there is not only a steady influx of blacks elected to the House, but also a smattering of legislators elected to the Senate. Of course, there's the two-term presidency of Barack Obama to measure the distance our nation has traveled from the passage of the Voting Rights Act, to the nomination and election of our first black occupant of the White House.

I raise these points to try and get folks to understand how much effort and struggle it took to get the leaders of our black constituencies in place in government - in positions where they could actually make a difference in the debates and deliberations which, only a few decades ago, excluded them from even being considered in allocations, benefits, protections, assistance, opportunity, and other vestiges of citizenship which had been denied to individuals in our communities.

If you could only see through my eyes just how absurd the notion of a political revolution against the Democratic establishment looks in the wake of a largely successful presidency which has only been limited in it's progressive accomplishments by an entrenched and obstructive republican majority.

I'm not a big fan of the process of government in our national legislature. It's an institutionally cumbersome process which too often dwells on the lowest common denominator. Still, you have to understand, I'm not feeling the glory and liberation of unsettling legislators who have overcome historical obstacles, as well as institutional ones (such as redistricting and gerrymandering) to gain a seat at the political table. From my perspective, we've barely just arrived, and some who profess to having 'progressive' interests want to show them the door.

I get that I'm exaggerating, but who has the luxury to be sanguine about supposed 'movements' which not only threaten legislators over daring to support another candidate for president, but denigrate the voters (South) who enable them into office with their votes? I don't have that luxury, and I reason that others in my community do not, either.

I know there are people who will come back to me about the primacy of issues over the color of a legislator. Sanders, himself, said pretty much that in an early interview. Although, he declared in another contradictory instance, that our party's problem was it's inability to appeal to white men. 'Wooing white males,' it was called in my day.

Moreover, Sanders has argued throughout the primary that progressive economics is a panacea for what ails the black community which is disproportionately disadvantaged by poverty, unemployment, and a crumbling infrastructure. Yet, there is much for our community to be wary of in that assessment of his. A rising economic tide certainly raises many boats, but it can just as certainly drown those unable to float on their own.

Democratic socialism isn't something which provides consideration for the unique problems faced by black Americans, many of which can be laid at the doorstep of discrimination. A higher minimum wage, for instance, is no good to someone denied employment or advancement.

Much has been written about Sanders' economics and its parallel to FDR's New Deal. Sen. Sanders and his supporters can confidently point to the legacy of Roosevelt in establishing a social safety net as they promote their candidate's own populist agenda - clearly influenced by a proud and thoughtful Socialist legacy - many facets of which, as he noted in a speech explaining his invented political moniker, are currently being practiced by successful, progressive economies around the world.

Yet, it should be remembered that FDR left a whole host of productive and worthy Americans out of his grand bargain... from wiki:

The New Deal programs put millions of Americans immediately back to work or at least helped them to survive. The programs were not specifically targeted to alleviate the much higher unemployment rate of blacks. Some aspects of the programs were even unfavorable to blacks. The Agricultural Adjustment Acts for example helped farmers which were predominantly white but reduced the need of farmers to hire tenant farmers or sharecroppers which were predominantely black... Some New Deal measures inadvertently discriminated against harmed blacks. Thousands of blacks were thrown out of work and replaced by whites on jobs where they were paid less than the NRA's wage minimums because some white employers considered the NRA's minimum wage "too much money for Negroes." By August 1933, blacks called the NRA the "Negro Removal Act."An NRA study found that the NIRA put 500,000 African Americans out of work...


And women were initially left out of the bargain as well...

At first the New Deal created programs primarily for men. It was assumed that the husband was the "breadwinner" (the provider) and if they had jobs, whole families would benefit. It was the social norm for women to give up jobs when they married; in many states there were laws that prevented both husband and wife holding regular jobs with the government. So too in the relief world, it was rare for both husband and wife to have a relief job on FERA or the WPA.[209] This prevailing social norm of the breadwinner failed to take into account the numerous households headed by women, but it soon became clear that the government needed to help women as well.


FDR's Social Security Act had similar exclusivity for white men... from wiki:

____ Most women and minorities were excluded from its benefits of unemployment insurance and old age pensions. Employment definitions reflected typical white male categories and patterns.

Job categories that were not covered by the act included workers in agricultural labor, domestic service, government employees, and many teachers, nurses, hospital employees, librarians, and social workers. The act also denied coverage to individuals who worked intermittently.

These jobs were dominated by women and minorities. For example, women made up 90% of domestic labor in 1940 and two-thirds of all employed black women were in domestic service. Exclusions exempted nearly half the working population.

Nearly two-thirds of all African Americans in the labor force, 70 to 80% in some areas in the South, and just over half of all women employed were not covered by Social Security. At the time, the NAACP protested the Social Security Act, describing it as “a sieve with holes just big enough for the majority of Negroes to fall through.”


It bears reminding that most legislative progress has been historically incremental (and progressively evolving), even with passage of sweeping initiatives. There's certainly much to be desired and demanded from our political process, but progressive change requires coalition-building, not tearing at the fabric of our party that many vulnerable and politically precarious Democratic communities are counting on to represent them. For many of these legislators (most minority legislators are in the House), they are, essentially, the voices of their communities or districts - voices unique to these communities and desperately needed.

We wage revolution against enemies, not allies. If we are to be successful in effecting progressive change, we'll need to build and repair bridges of support within our party as we continue to press for action. That's how change happens. There's no shortcut to be found by dividing our ranks. Let's make it happen.
44 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Why a 'revolution' against the Democratic 'establishment' is abhorrent to me (Original Post) bigtree May 2016 OP
Hillary and the HillBill Supporters have been waging war on us already JimDandy May 2016 #1
who is 'us'? bigtree May 2016 #2
She isn't. Agschmid May 2016 #11
Surely you remember both Clintons trashing BLM activists. It's on video if you missed it. -nt- chascarrillo May 2016 #40
So elect Drumpf? Jackie Wilson Said May 2016 #27
Very well said. MADem May 2016 #3
that's a good point bigtree May 2016 #8
Cults of personality usually have a bright, hot flame at the center, that burns out and MADem May 2016 #13
Usually yeah: forjusticethunders May 2016 #34
It's a protest vote designed to make wannabes feel like they're doing something. forjusticethunders May 2016 #9
And will abandon Bernie when he asks them to vote for the candidate. Jackie Wilson Said May 2016 #28
Its not a revolution. Its a bunch of angry white people that want their country/party back. nt LexVegas May 2016 #4
ONLY white people? Fawke Em May 2016 #5
What a wonderfully bigoted statement. R. Daneel Olivaw May 2016 #6
That's a hell of a calumny you leveled there, DemocratSinceBirth May 2016 #10
Seing how POC already support Senator Sanders. R. Daneel Olivaw May 2016 #15
That must be why exit polls show BS losing African Americans 4-1 and Hispanics 2-1. DemocratSinceBirth May 2016 #18
And yet that proves that POC still support Bernie Sanders: R. Daneel Olivaw May 2016 #19
Who is Lex? DemocratSinceBirth May 2016 #21
Amended. R. Daneel Olivaw May 2016 #22
When I make a mistake I admit it. I thought you were referring to bigtree. I apologize. DemocratSinceBirth May 2016 #29
Forget about it. R. Daneel Olivaw May 2016 #32
Different that the administrators of the vote decided no exit polls for the remaining primaries. PufPuf23 May 2016 #42
Yes, and big business loves and cares about you AZ Progressive May 2016 #12
That's too bad because it's needed whatchamacallit May 2016 #7
The establishment preserves white privilege AgingAmerican May 2016 #14
it appears you have an attachment to the Democratic party based on how they used to be Viva_La_Revolution May 2016 #16
Ron Dellums was one of the co-founders, along with Bernie Sanders, of the Progressive Caucus Bluenorthwest May 2016 #17
And yet he endorsed Clinton in 2008 ContinentalOp May 2016 #20
You support the establishment because you're black? Did I read that right? n/t lumberjack_jeff May 2016 #23
no bigtree May 2016 #25
Okeydokey. n/t lumberjack_jeff May 2016 #26
what do you think of the dem party moving further and further to the right? wendylaroux May 2016 #30
I have literally never seen another organisation auntpurl May 2016 #24
You support a candidate who needs a corrupt party system to win the primary. Marr May 2016 #31
Oh No's! Phlem May 2016 #33
I remember that many liberals preached incrementalism Blue Meany May 2016 #35
incrementalism characterized many Civil Rights era advances bigtree May 2016 #37
I'm certainly not suggesting that federal laws enacted Blue Meany May 2016 #39
Shorter... HumanityExperiment May 2016 #36
"We wage revolution against enemies, not allies." randome May 2016 #38
And as a women.... Nt seabeyond May 2016 #41
You really need to look at "intent" Seeinghope May 2016 #43
I prefer the word transformation to revolution. PufPuf23 May 2016 #44

JimDandy

(7,318 posts)
1. Hillary and the HillBill Supporters have been waging war on us already
Mon May 16, 2016, 10:55 AM
May 2016

The ranks are already divided, and were done so with the vigor and approval of all parties involved in her campaign.

After the naked corruption her camp openly displayed on Saturday, there was no more unified Democratic Party.

bigtree

(85,996 posts)
2. who is 'us'?
Mon May 16, 2016, 10:59 AM
May 2016

...I missed the part where she was campaigning against the party and legislators, or dismissing regions where black voters overwhelmingly supported Sanders' Democratic rival, labeling them as 'conservative' and 'low-information.'

I'll wait here for proof of that.

Jackie Wilson Said

(4,176 posts)
27. So elect Drumpf?
Mon May 16, 2016, 02:46 PM
May 2016

Yes, that is what you are working to do whether on purpose or not, wont make a difference in the end why you did it, will it!

count me out

MADem

(135,425 posts)
3. Very well said.
Mon May 16, 2016, 11:01 AM
May 2016

I am astounded at the number of people who will throw allies under the bus because they are all too eager for "revolution" that will change nothing without a legislative overhaul that their "revolutionary leader" has no coattails to produce.

bigtree

(85,996 posts)
8. that's a good point
Mon May 16, 2016, 11:10 AM
May 2016

...that occurred to me but didn't make it past my brain to the keyboard.

It would be one thing if there was such a movement of support and assistance for electors to replace the ones Sanders folks are waging revolution against, essentially for supporting Hillary. But there isn't! There's absolutely zero effort being made to even point to replacements. They'd get around to that, I guess. What a farce.

There's not even a focus on initiatives which may or may not be supported by these pols. It's just an opportunistic free-for-all against anyone who dares to oppose the Sanders candidacy. Support Hillary and you're declared an enemy to progressiveness.

It's absurd, on its face, but it betrays a shallowness in the campaign's appeal; one that is more focused on advancing Sanders than any of the issues he's raising. Where's his support in the legislature? None there? Where the hell do his fans get off claiming they have some lock on progress if they can't demonstrate any avenue to success for their candidate's initiatives? It boggles the mind to listen to them.

Who has the luxury of living through this ill-prepared, and ill-conceived revolution?

MADem

(135,425 posts)
13. Cults of personality usually have a bright, hot flame at the center, that burns out and
Mon May 16, 2016, 11:27 AM
May 2016

leaves people angry, disappointed and eventually, feeling duped.

If Sanders doesn't pivot soon, support the Democratic nominee, and make his "movement" about something other than him, his little bird, his quirky hair/glasses, rumpled-suit-persona, his crowds of people who are more interested in the party atmosphere "happening" of the rally than going to the polls and voting, etc., he's going to have all the barely-remembered currency of an H. Ross Perot. People thought HE was starting a "movement" too, with his high-pitched, quirky, nasally delivery of wonkish facts, his "non-politician" appearance, and "pox on both your houses" attitude. I'll bet if you polled BS's supporters, they'd have no clue who he was, and probably guess "actor" or "author!" And that wasn't that long ago, either!

I've noticed that the more cartoons, clever "memes," unusual signs, costumes, and quirky expressions of support a candidate has, the worse they tend to do. It's almost like a harbinger of doom, a forced expression of support, an attempt to make a thin veneer look like thick, rich wood. It's not lasting, these curiosities, though if you store them well they'll probably get a good valuation in fifty years on Antiques Roadshow!

 

forjusticethunders

(1,151 posts)
34. Usually yeah:
Mon May 16, 2016, 03:13 PM
May 2016
I've noticed that the more cartoons, clever "memes," unusual signs, costumes, and quirky expressions of support a candidate has, the worse they tend to do.


but trump won though

The problem with Bernie is that he's a product of the 60s new "Left" (in reality those people did more to damage the Left than almost anything the FBI/CIA or the Republicans ever did) and those bad political instincts never fully left him, even though he has had SOME success working incrementally with the Party. But he could have been even more successful if he hadn't spent years as a purist protester who took a my way or the high way WAKE UP SHEEPLE approach to politics.
 

forjusticethunders

(1,151 posts)
9. It's a protest vote designed to make wannabes feel like they're doing something.
Mon May 16, 2016, 11:18 AM
May 2016

The people who actually need change don't got time for wannabes.

 

R. Daneel Olivaw

(12,606 posts)
15. Seing how POC already support Senator Sanders.
Mon May 16, 2016, 11:58 AM
May 2016

I will leave the transparency king, Kex, to defend his/her bigoted statement.

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
21. Who is Lex?
Mon May 16, 2016, 01:58 PM
May 2016

I am white. That being said it is interesting that some anonymous poster is calling a black poster a bigot, especially when the poster is one of the most racially inclusive posters on this board . White privilege is intoxicating.

" "

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,710 posts)
29. When I make a mistake I admit it. I thought you were referring to bigtree. I apologize.
Mon May 16, 2016, 02:47 PM
May 2016

I like Lex but I wouldn't use such stark terms.

PufPuf23

(8,776 posts)
42. Different that the administrators of the vote decided no exit polls for the remaining primaries.
Sun May 22, 2016, 01:52 PM
May 2016

New way for the media consortium that conducts exit polls to do business by suspending exit polls for remaining primary states.

Odd.

AZ Progressive

(3,411 posts)
12. Yes, and big business loves and cares about you
Mon May 16, 2016, 11:26 AM
May 2016

And capitalism is warm and fuzzy...

What a world you live in!

Saving America from the greed addiction of the 1% is more important than pleasing people like you.

Viva_La_Revolution

(28,791 posts)
16. it appears you have an attachment to the Democratic party based on how they used to be
Mon May 16, 2016, 11:59 AM
May 2016

I did too, until I realized it's morphed into the corporate party, and is no longer interested in helping us little people.

I haven't decided yet if I will just leave the party completely or stay and fight to take it back.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
17. Ron Dellums was one of the co-founders, along with Bernie Sanders, of the Progressive Caucus
Mon May 16, 2016, 11:59 AM
May 2016

which is now the largest Democratic caucus within the US Congress. Ron Dellums was not nor is he the establishment of this Party. Not in any way, shape or form.

wendylaroux

(2,925 posts)
30. what do you think of the dem party moving further and further to the right?
Mon May 16, 2016, 02:48 PM
May 2016

not standing up for the common/poor man?

auntpurl

(4,311 posts)
24. I have literally never seen another organisation
Mon May 16, 2016, 02:42 PM
May 2016

that will so willingly eat its own as the Democratic party.

 

Blue Meany

(1,947 posts)
35. I remember that many liberals preached incrementalism
Mon May 16, 2016, 03:15 PM
May 2016

during the Civil Rights Movement, but often that was just code for doing nothing, or at least nothing significant. When the establishment politics are not addressing the needs of large segments of the population, political movements will arise to fill the void. We are in such a historical moment now

The DNC had a wonderful opportunity to harness this the power of this movement simply by being fair, and Hillary Clinton herself might have been able to do so by repositioning herself away form her corporate donors' interests. They made their decisions to stick with corrupt establishment politics and to repel Bernie's supporters from the party, and, I think, they stand on the wrong side of history. They may win the election--or they may not because, finally, progressives decide to be heard by taking their votes elsewhere. But they will lose in the long run. Either the Democratic Party will change, by virtue of increasing participation of young people, or support for it will shrivel and another party will emerge. Either way, the corporatists lose, so they should enjoy their victory parties now, before the crowds with pitchforks show up.

bigtree

(85,996 posts)
37. incrementalism characterized many Civil Rights era advances
Mon May 16, 2016, 03:34 PM
May 2016

...we know that the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act have been enhanced over the years to include more protections for women, minorities, and disabled individuals.

Although President Kennedy didn't live to see the passage of the Civil Rights Act, he did manage to accommodate the lobbied demands of Dr. King in both, his Executive Order 10925, introduced in 1961, establishing a 'Committee On Equal Employment Opportunity' (providing for the first time, enforcement of anti-discrimination provisions) ; and in his introduction of the Civil Rights Act to Congress on 19 June 1963.

Almost a year after President Kennedy's assassination, Lyndon Johnson pushed the Civil Rights Act through Congress and signed it into law. One of its major provisions was the creation of the 'Equal Employment Opportunity Commission.' The law provided for a defense by the federal government against objectionable private conduct, like discrimination in public accommodations; authorized the Attorney General to file lawsuits to defend access to public facilities and schools, to extend the Commission on Civil Rights, and to outlaw and defend against discrimination in federal programs.

So, Dr. King and others in the civil rights effort, had done their part in agitating and promoting through demonstrations, the notion and the ideal of advancing equal opportunity into action and law. The passage of the Civil Rights Act was, by no means, the end of advocacy by black leaders. Neither was it the end of the political effort by Johnson and others committed to advancing and enhancing black employment and establishing anti-discrimination as the law of the land.

On September 24, 1965, President Johnson originated and signed Executive Order 11246 which established new guidelines for businesses who contracted with the Federal government agencies, and required those with $10,000 or more of business with Uncle Sam to take 'affirmative action' to increase the number of minorities in their workplaces and keep a record of their efforts available on demand. It also set 'goals and timetables' for the realization of those minority positions.

I think you've reduced our history to a cliche about liberals which really doesn't rise to the level of what actually happened in that era and beyond.

 

Blue Meany

(1,947 posts)
39. I'm certainly not suggesting that federal laws enacted
Mon May 16, 2016, 03:47 PM
May 2016

(Civil Rights, Voting Rights, Fair Housing) were the end of the movement or that those who practiced politics within the system had not part in bringing those accomplishments about. In some ways, I see them more as a beginning than an end, because the provided new tools that took many years to implement and have an impact on the ground. The movement was not sufficient to accomplish those things, but it was necessary.

 

HumanityExperiment

(1,442 posts)
36. Shorter...
Mon May 16, 2016, 03:19 PM
May 2016

'If we are to be successful in effecting progressive change, we'll need to build and repair bridges of support within our party as we continue to press for action. That's how change happens.'


Don't think big, do big,... think small, do small,... it's the HRC way! that's how 'change' happens... brought to you by HRC corp control special interest unlimited!


 

randome

(34,845 posts)
38. "We wage revolution against enemies, not allies."
Mon May 16, 2016, 03:37 PM
May 2016

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]
 

Seeinghope

(786 posts)
43. You really need to look at "intent"
Sun May 22, 2016, 02:24 PM
May 2016

What is the intent of the Democratic Party right now? It isn't the same party that is was 30 years ago when we were fighting for civil rights, equal rights, against segregation. Now it is pro big business, sending jobs overseas, saving the banking, aggressive foreign policy...which costs this country a huge portion from our economy. Those are the front burners, it is not like it used to be.

Bernie Sanders has actually fought same fight for over 30 years he has never stopped fighting for people's rights. He hasn't evolved into a corporate protectionist.

The Democratic Party needs to be reminded of it's core values. Pro unions....what happened with that? Pro workers? That is left in the dust. Pro schools. The Democratic Party has turn way right of center. It needs to be brought back to left of center....liberal part of party not the conservative part of party.

We are seeing how extreme some of the Republicans have evolved over time. The rest of the party has drifted more right as well. Some of the Republicans who do not support that movement to the extreme conservatism came to the Democratic Party helping to anchor or even move the Party to the right. If you look back at the Kennedys and Johnson, they were much more liberal Democrats than we have now. I don't want to see this Party go backwards. You can talk about some the program's from Roosevelt not being helping the AA community right away, that more had to be done and I agree with you but when you knock down a wall you have to start with a portion or a brick of that wall. That is just how the system works. At least the system started the growth in the right way. That all started back when the Democratic Party had people like the Kennedies, Johnson, Carter...... That is not the Democratic Party of today. The things that you talk about don't exist in the party today. That is why it needs to go back to it's roots and start representing the poor, middle class, all ethnicities and races, both sexes, children, old, veterans, workers.......not the Corporations and the wealthy.

PufPuf23

(8,776 posts)
44. I prefer the word transformation to revolution.
Sun May 22, 2016, 02:26 PM
May 2016

POTUS Obama, while IMO a good POTUS and who I supported strongly in 2008, took the USA away from a cliff but never attempted the transformation spoken of in his 2008 POTUS campaign.

POTUS Obama made mostly neo-liberal appointments and governed as a neo-liberal.

What I would like to see is a transformation to pivot away from neo-liberalism and neo-conservatism within the Democratic party and in the nation.

No way is this inconsistent with civil rights but better addresses domestic economic and social justice and internationally halt our intentionally guiding the internal affairs of other nations by stealth, power, and violence.

That is a transformation not a revolution.

A revolution implies a violent over-throw or at least a replacement of system.

I don't think a true revolution is warranted or of benefit.

Better a transformation now to avoid a revolution in the future.

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