Am I the only one who likes Barbara Boxer AND believes she was in the wrong with the way she acted?

[phleshdef]

No one is perfect. People make asses of themselves. I'm known to do it quite often myself.

She really misread the situation. She was condescending. She was, frankly, talking to people like they were total shit.

That does not undo her record. That does not take away from a lot of good work she has done. It just means she fucked up and turned a tense situation even worse.

[oldandhappy]

1. agree with you

[NV Whino]

2. I'm with you

She has served us well over the years, and I'm sorry to see her go.

I am, however disappointed with her action/reaction in Nevada, and in her support of Hillary.

[pdsimdars]

54. She has been on the corporate side of many important issues. This was the clearest example

of who she is. Listen and learn or you will regret it later.

[Fresh_Start]

3. also agree

don't know what happened in Nevada.
don't like what I'm hearing

[riversedge]

4. She was right to stand up the the bullies who were trying to shout her down as she

gave her speech. You did not hear Clinton fans shout down Nina Turner as she spoke. Shame on the Sanders fans who made fools of themselves!

[Fawke Em]

27. If you'd get your head out of the sand and watch some of the videos, you'd know they were booing

the process and NOT her.

She just chose to make it about her by giving a "now now children" speech instead of just simply supporting her candidate, which is what she was there to do.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

76. Head in the sand? A Bob did NOT say that, PLEASE tell me NO

[riversedge]

78. LOL. So the 'process' is a 'B**ch???

[vintx]

77. Why are you still peddling the lie about Nina Turner? nt

[CrowCityDem]

5. Yes you are. Bernie's bullies didn't deserve to be treated with any respect, if they act like that.

[phleshdef]

8. Based on other responses in this thread, no I'm not the only one.

[demmiblue]

6. That is my take, as well. n/t

[LonePirate]

7. She is a good, liberal Dem but she screwed up.

I think there is a lot of frustration among long term elected Dems because they know Bernie cannot win the nomination yet he remains in the race. I expect other Dems share that frustration and we may see similar mistakes in the next three weeks. Boxer was definitely in the wrong and should apologize. That does not make her some evil Dem trying to thwart democracy, though.

[ViseGrip]

9. Agree, but if she let's it go, it will taint her legacy, as this was her last YUGE act!

It is what will be remembered. If she doesn't speak out, (how can she?), maybe it should be?

You only need cops/guards standing by, when you are going to upset something, you know is not right. It's obvious they were ready, and had their shenanigans in place.

[pdsimdars]

55. Yes, they knew what they had to do and they called in the jack boots.

More like a dictatorship than a democracy.

[kgnu_fan]

10. I liked her until this horrendous "mistake" she made. She lost me.

[FlatBaroque]

19. How many more will fall on their sword for Hillary?

Most revealing election ever.

[pdsimdars]

56. This is what I have been thinking all along.

It is shocking how clearly the lines are being drawn and who goes to which side. Very enlightening. Seeing where people's sentiments really lie.

[SwampG8r]

11. Agree

[YouDig]

12. I don't see that she did anything wrong.

I saw the video, the Bernie supporters were way out of hand. Trying to win by bullying and disrupting when they couldn't win democratically.

[dsc]

26. women are never permitted to speak to men like that

and when they dare to they are bitches who deserve to be called that. She should have known her place.

[yeoman6987]

13. Agree. I HATE that this could be what she's remembered for since she's retiring

I think she got overzealous and excited about Hillary. It was a mistake. I make a few myself daily.

[pdsimdars]

59. This was more than a mistake.

This is her field, her workplace. The arena she has been working in her entire career. This isn't just dropping a vase, a "mistake".

Those who try to characterize this as a "mistake" are RATIONALIZING. Plain and simple. She didn't make a mistake, she showed us exactly who she really is. She'd like you to excuse her, but she knew what she was doing. She was doing what the establishment thought they had to do and she was a part and party to it. Stop making excuses and rationalizing.

[yeoman6987]

66. Fair enough

I may very well could have been making excuses for her because I like some of what she does. Good points you posted for sure.

[DURHAM D]

14. iows - Women are just supposed to take abuse from bullies

NO THANKS !

sorry guys

[phleshdef]

16. No one said anything remotely close to that. Lying doesn't help this situation.

[DURHAM D]

20. You are lying to yourself. nt

[phleshdef]

21. Nope.

[Starry Messenger]

15. They were total shit. They deserved it.

[Betty Karlson]

17. She is too establishment to my taste, but there are things one can like about her.

Other than her preferred candidate, she has not opposed gay rights. There is one.

[aikoaiko]

18. Yeah, some people booed her and she flipped out in anger.

When did booing become bullying?

[FlatBaroque]

22. Booing became bullying when it was decided to be made a specific strategy

in advance of the Philadelphia convention. They plan to steamroll half the voting base and they are pre-positioning the propaganda to conform to their chosen narrative. This is the absolute worst, most cynical political campaign that I have ever had the displeasure to witness.

[aikoaiko]

30. wow, all that from booing. Sorry, but if one can cheer, one can boo. That's how it works.

Otherwise demand silence at conventions.

[FlatBaroque]

36. You might have misconstrued my meaning

I was saying that Hillary's campaign is framing the booing as bullying meme as a strtegy for how they will handle the protests at the convention. I hope that was more clear.

[aikoaiko]

43. I did misconstrue. Thank you for clarifying.

[pdsimdars]

61. Good tag line

[dsc]

28. she was called a bitch

that is bullying.

[aikoaiko]

32. Yes, one person called her a bitch. There are better words to describe her behavior/rhetoric at NV

[Bluenorthwest]

23. I fully agree and I've campaigned for Boxer and voted for her many times.

I was disappointed in her comportment in the face of strong opposition. That's not how elected officials should speak to or about the electorate. Misuse of her status.

[shanti]

69. Really though...

Has she EVER faced opposition in her elections? In CA, all she ever has received is cheers, never been primaried, just like Feinstein. (Come to think of it, where is DiFi hiding?) This is probably blowing her mind.

Not that it matters. She's retiring, so it's fine for her to fall on her sword. Probably expects a cabinet position w/Hillary.

[Fawke Em]

24. I feel the same way.

I said yesterday that I wasn't throwing her under a bus, but her condescending attitude was uncalled for.

[pdsimdars]

52. She's dead to me. She'll have to earn her way back into my trust. And she won't be able to

because she just showed you that she is just one more who has been taken over by corporate think.

[seabeyond]

25. When being called a b* and being shouted down in a party of civility, ya... No, Boxer was not wrong.

[phleshdef]

29. One person said the word "bitch". It was unacceptable. It also was provoked.

[seabeyond]

31. I was going to say, thank you for actually saying unacceptable, as I read you excuse. wow.

As long as the man had a justifiable reason to throw out sexist spew. I guess Obama provokes into being called the n word. Good that they have a valid reason.

Oh wait. That really voids the "unacceptable".

[phleshdef]

33. Its not an excuse. Its just a description of what happened.

People can get emotional and say awful things when they feel like they are being talked down to. I would never allow myself to stoop that low, but someone in that audience did.

Try being objective for once in your life.

[seabeyond]

40. I get how easily it is to grab the easy sexist slur to throw at a woman. I dunno.... have seen it

lifetime. Or a racist slur.

And ya.... I do not need to excuse it as simply being provoke. We always have a good reason for it.

So... thanks.

Unacceptable, without excusing it.

[bettyellen]

72. Provoked is no excuse at all. Where the hell do people get off with that bullshit? Sexist shit

is STILL sexist shit no matter how the person who spews it feels. Stop making excuses for it.

[phleshdef]

73. I never said it was an excuse.

It was wrong to say it. That doesn't excuse the horrible way Boxer handled the situation though. She was provoking people and she is more seasoned than that.

[bettyellen]

74. "Provoked" absolutely implies that on some level, those words were well deserved. Whether it is

Palin, Rice, HRC or Ann Coulter in the past, or HRC now- people here have a habit of trying to find weasel justifications for sexist behavior. Guess what- there are none. None. Zero fucking tolerance, no excuses for progressives. Stop acting like cave men.

[phleshdef]

75. They could have called her an "asshole" and I would be saying the same exact thing.

You can get off my fucking back about it already, you're getting nowhere.

[bettyellen]

79. They did not. You're reacting the same to sexist shit as you are non-sexist shit. That is the point.

[phleshdef]

80. I'm reacting to name calling.

I understand the notion that "bitch" is sexist but I also understand that most people don't even realize it as its made its way into mainstream common vernacular.

[bettyellen]

82. Nope, sexist shit like calling women "bitches" is not okay- especially in progressive spaces.

Like here at DU, that is in the TOS- like Dem party functions of any kind- it is heinous. No fucking excuse for it.
Women are the majority, and anyone making excuses needs to fuck off.

[TwilightZone]

34. Our outrage at bullying behavior is often selective...

based on which way we lean.

Frankly, I'm more outraged that more than 100 people rec'd a thread insisting that certain women can't think for themselves and need men to make decisions for them. It's that kind of behavior that led to this, and it only seems to be getting worse. If that's how they were acting, her response was appropriate.

[TDale313]

35. Yep, I agree. n/t

[QC]

37. Sorry, we don't do nuance around here.

People are either gods or devils. There's nothing in between.

But yeah, I generally like Boxer. I appreciated her opposition to the Iraq War, something other Democrats in the Senate should have emulated and I think she was trolling the Bernie supporters at that convention.

Good people do not-so-good things every day. It's part of being human.

[phleshdef]

41. ^^^ This.

[JudyM]

38. Liked her a lot. The combo of what she said and what *she failed to do* have destroyed

my respect for her ... She was aware of the blatant mishandling of the vote and as a party leader, positively should have stepped in to fix it, which would have been fairly easy to do... A revote with an actual count.

Just standing by would have been bad enough, but stepping in to supposedly validate it is reprehensible.

When it came down to it, she was NOT about democratic principles, but about crony politics. The fact that I agree with her substantive political positions does not excuse this travesty of democratic process usurpation.

[pdsimdars]

50. ^^^^^^^^^^^ Amen! ^^^^^^^^^^^ and YES, YES, YES!!!

Just like I lost all my respect for those members who were in the civil rights struggle who threw Bernie under the bus and went for Hillary. . . .They lost is all, a whole lifetime of integrity, sold out for something. . .

[JudyM]

53. Our principles matter. Character matters. When these are no longer a politician's compass they

justifiably lose their cred. The true blues are too few.

[JudyM]

86. Yes, similar circumstance of showing what they really pledge allegiance to.

[Waiting For Everyman]

60. Exactly, JudyM.

It's standing by while others are victimized. She did it for her own advantage, which is pretty bad.

I used to think a lot of her too. She was losing me by being among the insiders calling for Sanders to drop out a number of weeks ago. But this made it too clear who she really is.

I'm glad she won't be back to the Senate.

[blm]

39. I agree with you - I am also a Sanders voter who believes that many there were acting badly, and

what some of them have construed as 'conspiracy' is pretty standard for larger state conventions. I think the fact that many were new to the process also added to their confusion of how these state conventions operate. As a precinct chair a few years ago, I was almost prevented from being allowed to cast votes for my precinct because of a book keeping error at the Board of Elections regarding one of the precinct organizers who was listed as Unaffiliated when he had changed to Democrat months earlier. We worked at clearing it up as quickly as possible before the convention.

I like how everything went smoothly for Alaska's convention, but, then, that's a much smaller state when it comes to Dem participation.

[pdsimdars]

62. What. I just read that DWS went up to Alaska and tried to mess things up.

[blm]

83. Then you must only read what propagandists want you to read and missed the REAL story:

From the longtime DUer Blue In Ak:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511968951

Star Member Blue_In_AK (46,327 posts)

And another reason to love Alaska...


According to my friend Phil Munger, who was a delegate,

"This afternoon, Alaska's Democratic Party Convention became the first in the USA to endorse Sen. Bernie Sanders by acclamation."

Gotta love Alaska Democrats.
--------------------

So…who wants you to further false stories undermining the Dem party, pd? Can you post what you 'read'?

[tularetom]

42. Nah, she defended the indefensible, got called out for it

and reacted childishly.

In the span of a few minutes she trashed the image she built up over a long and productive political career.

I always had a lot of respect for her but maybe she only looked good by comparison to the other one.

[phleshdef]

47. She was out of her element and did not handle the situation like I'd expect someone with her...

...experience in politics would be able to handle it. But you can't say a few minutes destroyed everything good she has done. That isn't fair and its not true.

[pdsimdars]

63. Sure you can say that. She has been on the corporate side of many important issues.

She has made progressive gestures but has shown herself to be pretty corporate, and this incident has put the seal on it. Like many others in this campaign. They are choosing sides and showing their true colors. Don't ignore it, don't rationalize it. Be brave and face it. She just told you who she is. You have to accept that.

[phleshdef]

65. Accusations of corporatism are starting to lose meaning because such accusations are being abused.

As a Sanders supporter and New Deal Democrat myself, I really hate seeing that happen.

[pdsimdars]

68. I just remember over the years, there would be some important issue the Dems needed to push

back on the Repubs. and Boxer was most often on the side of, "oh well, what can we do", or some excuse for not fighting back. It's just easier to say "corporate". Maybe I should say "establishment". But she was mostly on the side of those who didn't fight for the progressive value.

Did you ever think that maybe the reason corporatism is coming up so often is because it is rearing its ugly heard a LOT in this election?

I'd obsess less on the LABEL than the substance. It's a mistake a lot of people make. Seems like a lazy thing to me, rather than think about the issue they grasp at the superficial label or messenger or something rather than what it's about.

[joshcryer]

44. She was repeating Sanders own letter about civility!

Anyone who acted uncivil was not a Sanders supporter, that includes people who think the uncivil behavior was OK.

[TheSarcastinator]

45. so name-calling is now being used as an excuse for voter fraud and corruption

Good work, Hillarians. I'm sure these tactics will get you the win: never forget that the ends justify the means!

[phleshdef]

46. Not sure what you are getting at, I'm a Sanders supporter.

[vintx]

48. K&R

[pdsimdars]

49. But she has been on the corporate side of many, many issues.

I have been surprised over the years, also thinking she was "progressive", but this Clinton campaign is finally making people come out and show their true colors. And when someone shows you who they are, believe them. And she has just showed you that she is one more corporate candidate.

[onecaliberal]

51. This isn't the only time she fell on the side of corporate america. Good thing she's retiring.

I wouldn't vote for her again.

[redstateblues]

57. I'm sure you will get someone who passes the Purity Party test

[NCTraveler]

58. I don't fully agree with you.

K&R for not doing the black and white thing.

[pmorlan1]

64. My thoughts

While I thought what she said was politically tone deaf in the extreme I would like to think she made those hostile remarks to the Sanders delegates in the heat of the moment. If that is the case, she really should come out and explain and yes, apologize. This moment does not negate her prior good work in my eyes but I think if she cares about what people think about her going forward she really needs to address this. Her silence about this matter will only reinforce the idea that some have that this was done on purpose.

[Demsrule86]

67. She was booed by assholes

so yes ,you re wrong.

[B Calm]

70. I think her goal of getting the first woman president elected clouded her train of thought.

[Dems to Win]

71. Boxer got started in political activism opposing the Vietnam War

Hard to understand how she can now support Hillary, knowing Hillary is buddies with Kissinger.

The whole thing is very sad to me. I hate to see Sen. Boxer defending the indefensible. Not just yesterday, but her statements for months as a Hillary supporter.

She has been out there saying that bank and corporate money doesn't influence Hillary, not a bit, not a problem.

It's as if the entire DC Democratic Establishment never heard of Occupy Wall Street, or the foreclosure crisis, where banks stole millions of homes from Americans via mortgage fraud while Obama and Holder stood by and watched.

Same old corporate funded Dems are not good enough anymore! We know better!

How can so many good people not understand the anger among the people they represent?

[bkkyosemite]

81. Barbara was my Senator for years. I am disgusted that she will go along with winning

no matter what.

[TSIAS]

84. Has she apologized?

If she does, it will change how I view her.

Sometimes one moment can really impact how somebody is viewed. I'll never forgive Ted Strickland for bobbing his head in approval behind Clinton when she attacked Obama on health care. That would was re-opened when she disingenuously attacked Sanders this time around.

I'll never forget, or forgive, either's actions.

[PufPuf23]

85. I have liked Boxer and voted for her many times in the past.

The tape from NV is what I will remember her for and think now I misjudged her character,

Boxer is probably a good example that shows voters are better represented when there are term limits.

To be kind to Boxer would be to say that she has been inside the bubble too long and lost her touch with common people.

Boxer should apologize but won't and one could argue that there is not a suitable apology after what she said and how she said it.

Too bad.