2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumNevada delegates had to be Democrats to get that far in process-How did registrations get changed?
Hillary people are Hillsplaining how Bernie people are so dumb they weren't registered as Democrats for the convention.
This was the third round in the caucuses, Bernie people had to be Democrats for the first two caucuses, they know the rules they wouldn't all change their registrations.
There must be someone responsible for voter registration that can be pursued for fraud?
This is not the first state this has happened in, as everyone is well aware.
There is a paper trail and people need to be held accountable.
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djean111
(14,255 posts)far.
Issues aside, I can't vote for any nominee who uses these sleazy underhanded fraudulent strong-arm tactics to "win".
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Out of a total of 2124 who were supposed to be there. That's nearly a quarter of all those "enthusiastic" Bernie supporters who committed to be there, and critically, the Sanders Campaign failed to arrange babysitters and transport to get its delegates to the convention.
As for those who showed, many of those had been only provisionally okayed. Some were required to register by a certain date -- and failed to -- and some were required to provide requested paperwork to the NVSP by a certain date -- and failed to.
Some weren't from Nevada, much less registered as Nevada Democrats, some were from Nevada but did not register within the deadline allowed, some didn't carry proper ID.
Out of 64 who showed but had problems, 8 were able to be verified as the registered Nevada Democrats they said they were, and the other 58 not. (!!!) Eight of Clinton's delegate slots were not filled for similar reasons. In the end the Sanders campaign was able to muster up 1662 registered Nevada Democrats who could show that they were the people they claimed to be, out of 2124.
Needless to say, bad organization, frivolous uncommitted delegates.
Hillary's campaign seated 98% of their delegates.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)
reformist2
(9,841 posts)CrowCityDem
(2,348 posts)randome
(34,845 posts)Yes, there would need to be a paper or electronic trail to prove or disprove anything. But no one will do anything about it because the 'lost' Sanders delegates are likely aware that they forgot to cross a 'T' or something.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]
J_J_
(1,213 posts)They do not need to make up lie about Bernie supporters being violent.
I smell desperation.
bobbobbins01
(1,681 posts)Didn't you hear that someone at the convention called Barbara Boxer a bitch? That makes election fraud acceptable.
senz
(11,945 posts)
I'd much rather be called a "bitch" than have my vote taken away.
bobbobbins01
(1,681 posts)Sorry, I thought I was sarcastic enough, but I guess these days its hard to determine, since that is what passes for an argument around here now.
senz
(11,945 posts)I was totally supporting your point, bobobbins01. Sorry to be such a poor communicator. 
bobbobbins01
(1,681 posts)Thanks for agreeing!
senz
(11,945 posts)Misunderstanding is just a minor oops. 
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Cute that you argue against a premise no one has made. Mentally undisciplined, irrational and a logical fallacy indicative of a particular mind's limits, but still cute.
That, or merely ineffective and awkward rhetoric. 
bobbobbins01
(1,681 posts)I find it incredibly ironic that you insult my intelligence, when a two second search pulls up numerous posts that prove your ignorance. Go ahead and try it...give that big brain of yours a stretch!
JSup
(740 posts)I know of others that weren't seated because they selected "No" on the paperwork at the County Convention that asked if they were interested in serving as a state delegate. There may have been 64 of us (eyeballing), but I don't have a total count, and not all of us were turned down.
https://www.reddit.com/r/NevadaForSanders/comments/4jd7nq/where_is_everybody/d35vi8d
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)... to spite their face.
No wonder Bernie's camp is losing. Many can't bother to register with the party before the deadlines, others "unregister" out of spite (and vanity?) and end up being shocked (SHOCKED I tell ya) that they can't participate in PARTY activities.
I guess it could be a teaching-moment and a lesson to be learned going forward. But, it would also have to be a lesson REMEMBERED as well. I can easily see these same "activists" going silent for the next four/eight years and doing absolutely nothing to advance the causes they (appear to) hold dear. Then, they'll resurface and start the whole outrage act all over again.
DLCWIdem
(1,580 posts)The reddit group told berners to bring along all their supporters to be altetnates when or if Clinton supporters didn't show up. Who knows who got chosen. Some of them were disqualified because they didn't live in the county. Some were also disqualified because theyl had checked a box saying they didn't want to be a delegate in the original Feb caucaus. 8 of Hillarys delegates were also disqualified.
me b zola
(19,053 posts)These were credentialed delegates.
Blue Meany
(1,947 posts)a report listing 64 Bernie delegates who were not registered Democrats as of May 1 or who were not living in the district they were representing. But 6 of them had documentation with them proving that these assertions were not true and were allowed in. Eight of Hillary's delegates were also removed for one reason or another.
My question is whether delegates were told in advance that they needed to have this kind of documentation to be seated at the Convention and/or if this was one of the rules they changed at the last minute.
LiberalFighter
(50,942 posts)Some they were not able to locate. That would likely be how they would know.
That is a very small number of the nearly 500 that didn't show up.
Blue Meany
(1,947 posts)is that the Hillary campaign was emailing their delegates to be sure to be in the room by 9:00 am because there might be a vote on the rules, and that the Bernie delegates don't want them to pass. But the vote on the rules is scheduled on the agenda for a session that runs from 10:00 am to 12:00 noon. The vote actually took place at 9:30, when there many Bernie delegates waiting in line to be "certified." This suggests that this was pre-planned to maximize the likelihood that Hillary supporters would carry the vote.
Also, because the parking lots were full, many delegates showed up after 10:00 am for the session and could not get in at all. It is true that the schedule said that registration of delegates would end at 10:00 am, and anyone who was not in line by that time would not be registered. However, I've seen photographs on social media of lots of people, said to be delegates, locked out of the room, and it was not much after 10.
MuseRider
(34,111 posts)getting an explanation. I expressed that yesterday in an active thread and was never responded to. Gosh, I wonder why?
aspirant
(3,533 posts)LiberalFighter
(50,942 posts)They were the 58 of 64 that were contacted by both the State Party and Sanders campaign.
aspirant
(3,533 posts)LiberalFighter
(50,942 posts)aspirant
(3,533 posts)Blue Meany
(1,947 posts)registration was closed at 10:00 am. Apparently the parking lots were full, making quite a few people late.
brooklynite
(94,587 posts)Brian Sandoval, Governor
Barbara Katherine Cegavske, Secretary of State
J_J_
(1,213 posts)So you have no good answer?
J_J_
(1,213 posts)And they have the corporate media to back them up with their chair throwing story so it's a good day.
Of course the same corporate media lied to sell Bush's wars for him and has since lost all credibility, but you know, just trust the media won't you?
Is anyone pursuing real accountabiliy here?
auntpurl
(4,311 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)Nah, we're not going to let the Hill campaign get away with election theft.
auntpurl
(4,311 posts)and the first one talks about how he knows of others who filled out their paperwork wrong.
So yeah, I suspect user error far more than I do systemic conspiracy.
senz
(11,945 posts)I hope the good people of California will be on guard against what is stacking up to be the most corrupt Democratic campaign in decades.
Cheaters gonna cheat. May they be caught. May they be punished. All the way up to the top.
auntpurl
(4,311 posts)Yeah. I'm not buying it.
senz
(11,945 posts)auntpurl
(4,311 posts)and I have yet to see any credible evidence that any Bernie-destructive disenfranchisement has occurred this primary season. There were irregularities in AZ and NY, both of which likely hurt Hillary more than Bernie. NY's cut off date for registration is way too early, but that wasn't put in place to hurt Bernie. The rest is closed primaries, administrative fuck ups, and regular old voter error.
Blue Meany
(1,947 posts)voters tended to be older and mostly, in Arizona, voted absentee, while the younger and newly-registered voters who tended to favor Bernie voted the day of the election You would expect that the NYC problems might have hurt Hillary more, but the Election Justice group says these irregularities happened across the state, with large numbers on Long Island, and some poll workers in Manhattan have said it was mostly Bernie supporters who were affected. In Chicago, the vote shifting that took place on machines during the audit, as attested by a number of witnesses from a citizen observer group, favored Hillary Clinton by 18%, while the ballot shortages that took place in the less urban areas of the state generally lost votes for Bernie, except in one town that Hillary won by a slim margin. In St. Louis, on the other hand, I think the problems probably did cost Hillary votes, as there is a large African-American population there, and she was carrying that population by large margins.
YouDig
(2,280 posts)And some were never Dems to begin with.
aspirant
(3,533 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)The spinners are still spinning.
May truth prevail. May the perps be punished.
Blue Meany
(1,947 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)Can eke out a little punishment that way.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)iT's how they roll, and it's what will cost them the general election.,
eastwestdem
(1,220 posts)LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)"Hillary people are Hillsplaining how Bernie people are so dumb they weren't registered as Democrats for the convention"
That was a lot creative fiction couched in awkward grammar for one sentence.
(My response allowed your allegation all the credibility it is in fact, due)
apnu
(8,758 posts)And many of those challenged on that Saturday, should not have been allowed in at the county conventions.
Each state runs its elections and the counties hold the party affiliations and voter registration. Anything wrong there will cause problems in complicated systems like Nevada's.
See the saga of 'CoffeeCat' here. Her story is she switched to Repub in 2012 to see what the repub convention was like in Iowa. She says she switched back to Dem one week later. That registration and a day-of registration form were never entered by her county auditors. Technically, the state of Iowa thinks she is still a Republican.
aspirant
(3,533 posts)We need to clean house.
apnu
(8,758 posts)Last edited Thu May 19, 2016, 06:05 PM - Edit history (1)
One that lies, I think, at the feet of the Nevada State Democratic Party. Its on them to make sure that precincts and counties are following the rules of whatever system is in place.
Personally, I think all these debacles show we need national election reform and a normalized process used by all the states. Clearly the states alone, are uncapable of running fair and clean elections.
Waiting For Everyman
(9,385 posts)that we're supposed to forget about.
It's just another insignificant election fraud event, among many. But she won!!!
Cheating is not winning.
WhiteTara
(29,718 posts)herself. She is that powerful and petty.
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)WhiteTara
(29,718 posts)(she knows each employee by name) and had the employees change the registration of Bernie supporters, because she know each one of them by name.
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)DNC passed on the "we support Hillary - the Clintons are great for fundraising, and you want money from us for your candidates, right?" to the State party people. And then the State people started making sure that things were in place with a wink and a nod and a nudge.
It usually doesn't feel like cronyism and corruption when it just feels like part of your job or that your job might be at risk if you don't go along to get along.
It's the type of thing that enables staff in corporate America to find themselves participating in the occasional illegal or unethical behavior; it usually just kind of evolves into the corporate culture as part of "this is just how things are done".
But your minimizing lame nonsense is plausible, too -- just not as likely as the obvious way these things happen here in the real world that isn't trying to ridicule reality.
WhiteTara
(29,718 posts)the DNC? Wow.
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)and behaving in unethical ways to support Hillary. But you can keep making up your nonsense theories/attempting to misrepresent what I am saying; I'm done with you now.
Bye!
WhiteTara
(29,718 posts)you live in. Sorry I made light of your very serious concern because I can see you are truly in great pain.
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)You were around when the 2004 oddness was happening. Yes, I am very concerned with election integrity issues.
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/tech/news/techpolicy/evoting/2004-11-19-nh-recount_x.htm
WhiteTara
(29,718 posts)and I have seen many things. I watched us lose to Nixon during the 68 elections and that wasn't my first electoral experience either. Whatever happens, we can't let the republicons take the WH. Can you imagine Tom Cotton on the supreme court? I can and it makes me sick.
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)I like Bernie. I have no idea why she didn't bow out once the FBI recovered her deleted emails last October. She knows they have her on destroying government records if nothing else, and it would have given a batch of candidates solid vetting time. It's a very odd year.
dogman
(6,073 posts)WhiteTara
(29,718 posts)that she made sure that people who have never been involved in the process before become disqualified, rather than they didn't know what they were doing and didn't make sure they were properly registered.
Gothmog
(145,291 posts)Here is some fact checking on this issue http://www.politifact.com/nevada/statements/2016/may/18/jeff-weaver/allegations-fraud-and-misconduct-nevada-democratic/
The rules, which can be read here, also state that any amendment attempts must be approved by two-thirds of the convention delegates — which would be difficult given the nearly even number of Clinton and Sanders backers present.
Sanders backers say the continuing nature of the presidential primary necessitated more rule changes.
The Sanders campaign did not respond to a request for comment. In a previous statement, the campaign detailed several allegations of misconduct from the state party, which we considered as part of this fact-check. "At that convention the Democratic leadership used its power to prevent a fair and transparent process from taking place," the campaign said in that statement.
However, there were no last minute rule changes sprung on convention-goers — the rules had been publicly available weeks in advance, largely unchanged for three presidential cycles, and given to both campaigns.
The first major fight happened in the morning, with the convention being gaveled in nearly 40 minutes after the scheduled 9 a.m. start time.
In a voice vote, Lange approved adoption of a preliminary credentials report showing more Clinton than Sanders delegates. Immediate howls of protests from the Sanders contingent emerged, many of whom rushed the dais and started screaming insults and obscenities directly at Lange.
Although several videos from the event appear to have louder "nays" than "yeas," both preliminary and final delegate counts showed that Clinton supporters outnumbered Sanders supporters in the room.
And trying to determine the outcome of a voice vote from a video of around 3,000 delegates is somewhat arbitrary to begin with. The only person with authority to call for a different voting mechanism is the convention chair: Lange.....
Our ruling
Sanders campaign manager Jeff Weaver said Nevada Democratic Party leaders "hijacked the process on the floor" of the state convention "ignoring the regular procedure and ramming through what they wanted to do."
Caucuses and delegate math can be incredibly confusing, and the arcane party structures don’t reflect how most people assume presidential selection works.
But the howls of unfairness and corruption by the Sanders campaign during Nevada’s state Democratic Convention can’t change the simple fact that Clinton’s supporters simply turned out in larger numbers and helped her solidify her delegate lead in Nevada.
There’s no clear evidence the state party "hijacked" the process or ignored "regular procedure."
We rate this claim False.
