Bernie supporters: a question.

[auntpurl]

Are you not embarrassed to be aligned with this person?

https://twitter.com/CMPreciado/status/731547437047775233
(A Bernie supporter shouts "Who gives a shit, bitch?" at Democratic Senator Barbara Boxer)

Do you want to be part of a political campaign that gives a voice to vicious misogynistic thugs?

As far as I can tell, most Bernie supporters are in favour of peace, of the environment, of economic justice, and of health care for all. Did you sign up to have that guy speak for you? Is it not embarrassing to be associated with that kind of behaviour?

I guess I'm honestly asking. Perhaps you're not. Perhaps this is the kind of campaign you were hoping for. So any answer is valid.

[hellofromreddit]

1. He is not representative. So I don't feel embarrassed.

[JaneyVee]

4. But Bernie's movement is creating a movement where this is becoming acceptable.

Silence is consent. Bernie needs to speak up. NOW.

[auntpurl]

6. I haven't seen ANY refutation on his part.

In fact, he tacitly endorsed the disruption by saying political protest is a-ok in his book as long as it's outside events, even when it's packs of angry red-faced men screaming at children and POC.

[hellofromreddit]

9. Are you sure you want to go there? Hillary is silent on Brock.

Guilt by association is bullshit.

[JaneyVee]

14. Bernie's movement has created...

A movement that believes Hillary is only winning due to superdelegates and voter fraud, instead of the fact shes winning popular vote and delegates by a landslide. A movement of artful smears and insinuations about transcripts and corruption without a shred of evidence. A movement that throws money at our candidate and calls her "whore!". A movement that believes conspiracy theories about the "evil" DNC, even though without the DNC Bernie would be nowhere. NOWHERE! A movement thats so obsessed with their dear leader they are willing to subvert democracy and the will of the people to install their preferred candidate.

Bernie is not speaking up, and by not doing so, the lies, smears, and misinformation is driving his fans to the tipping point.

[hellofromreddit]

24. All you complain about existed long before. I remember Clinton's vile 2008 campaign.

Bernie has spoken up plenty of times and has done a hell of a job pointing a lot of very pissed off people towards being productive rather than angry. It's not perfect, but there's no mandate he jump through each and every hoop you pull out of your ass.

A movement that so adores their dear leader they are willing to subvert democracy and the will of the people to install their preferred candidate

Now you're just lying.

[JaneyVee]

30. No it didnt.

[raging moderate]

41. Thank you. Yes, Bernie has called for civil behavior in his supporters.

And not everyone who opposes Hillary is a Bernie supporter.

[Loudestlib]

48. Will Hillary speak up about this?

"A fervent Hillary Clinton supporter, Pierce reportedly “got upset” when a woman he was speaking with declared her support for the senator from Vermont. Pierce allegedly pushed the woman’s boyfriend, grabbed her hair and hit her on the head"

[link:
?cache=ybgyuxtj0i|

[JaneyVee]

51. That wasnt at a political event, or a disruption of democracy.

So no. And she shouldnt have to.

[Silver_Witch]

56. Ahhhh just ask suspected!

Fine for Hillary supporters to hit woman. But oh no they booed Boxer ....the horror!!!

You show your blindness!

[Fawke Em]

61. LOL

[Loudestlib]

63. Ahhh got it.

She's ok with her violent supporters. Good to know.

[Renew Deal]

19. There have been two recent incidents that were similar

LA and NV. There are also many reports online about the same type of harassment. It might be the same minority over and over, but it keeps happening.

[hellofromreddit]

27. OK, so?

Millions of people across thousands of events and a handful get mouthy. That's pretty damn good, so I don't see a problem here.

[JaneyVee]

33. So its ok when it happens at Trump rallies?

[hellofromreddit]

38. Easy way to check: Is it the exception or the norm?

At the one I visited the derogatory language was very common. The fact that it's common at a Trump rally is unacceptable.

[timmymoff]

2. Can i judge the Hillary campaign on the actor who was charged with assault?

The one who assaulted a female for saying she is for Bernie? Please say I can. How can you be aligned with such a group?

[insta8er]

3. Hillary supporters are you not embarrassed to be aligned with this person?

http://www.tmz.com/2016/05/15/the-wire-arrested-wendell-pierce-hilary-clinton-bernie-sanders/

[morningfog]

5. I have no idea who he is, never heard of him and he doesn't represent me.

I am not embarrassed by asshole I have no control over. Their are plenty of assholes who support HIllary too. I don't expect Hillary supporters to be embarrassed by them.

[Armstead]

7. Are Clinton supporters embarrasse to be associated with people who rile that kind of behavior up....

by acting in a high-handed and heavy-handed manner in running a meeting and controlling the process, instead of being open and reasonable in their application of the "rules."?

[auntpurl]

8. "Rile that kind of behaviour up"?

So, she was asking for it?

[Armstead]

10. Your words, not mine

[auntpurl]

11. Ha ha, ok then.

[Matt_in_STL]

12. I love how you answer this but ignore the replies pointing out assault

You feminism in this post can't be taken seriously when you can't form a serious reply to an actual assault on another woman.

[auntpurl]

13. There is no video of the event.

We don't know what happened. If it did happen as the news agencies are alleging, then it is obviously a terrible event, perpetrated by ONE man in the ONE example of violence of Hillary's campaign. I'd be very surprised if Hillary didn't refute it immediately as the facts emerge.

On the other hand, we have a pattern of behaviour of WALLS of vicious thugs in Bernie shirts/signs screaming at women, children, and POC in MULTIPLE incidences. With no refutation by Bernie whatsoever.

There is really no comparison. It's a strawman argument and I find it interesting that those who posted the link to this story did not answer the original question - namely, are you not embarrassed to be aligned with a campaign that is willing to have so many of its supporters show this kind of vicious misogyny?

[Matt_in_STL]

21. That's awesome. Witnesses, and in a hotel bar where I am sure video will turn up.

Yet you are questioning the victim. Meanwhile, other people said bad words and that is just too much for you. If you got one of those woman cards Hillary is sending out, you should probably cut it up.

[auntpurl]

23. Ok then. I'll put you down for a no.

[Matt_in_STL]

34. Let's put it this way

I'd be more concerned if they were beating women, as you seem to be okay with. I am not a fan of shouting anyone down but that's how politics have worked for as long as people have been political. If you want to pretend it is new, go for t.

[Trust Buster]

15. Their mask's have come off and their real faces revealed.

[Gregorian]

16. Kissinger's girlfriend.

No comparison. Just pointing out the massive flaw in your argument.

Corruption versus concern.

[auntpurl]

20. So, you're not embarrassed then?

[bobbobbins01]

17. Henry Fucking Kissinger.

The big difference is Bernie Sanders doesn't call the "Who gives a shit, bitch?" guy up for advice, or call him a close friend, or go on vacations with him.

Some choice quotes:

"The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer."
"It is an act of insanity and national humiliation to have a law prohibiting the President from ordering assassination."
"The emigration of Jews from the Soviet Union is not an objective of American foreign policy. And if they put Jews into gas chambers in the Soviet Union, it is not an American concern. Maybe a humanitarian concern."

Embarrassed yet?

[auntpurl]

22. So, you're not embarrassed then?

[bobbobbins01]

25. Not in the slightest.

I'm sure every candidate has some unsavory followers. Like your pal Bunk, who just assaulted a female Bernie supporter. This tit for tat guilt by association bullshit is ridiculous.

[Silver_Witch]

57. They know no shame!

[aikoaiko]

18. Yes, but I'm more embarrassed by Boxer.

Everyday people aren't always as eloquent as I wish they could be.

Of course people say stuff and then come to realized years later they shouldn't have -- especially when convenient.

Like "yea" on the IWR, like "superpredator" when pimping the 1994 Crime Bill, like "no" when asked if one supports same-sex marriage.

[Marrah_G]

26. Are you aligned with every crazy person who supports Clinton?

[auntpurl]

29. If it were an irrefutable pattern of behaviour

you can damned well bet I'd be having another look at a campaign that was willing to let that be their public face.

[Marrah_G]

44. Sure you would

Careful, someone might put you to the test on that.

[Fawke Em]

62. It is documented that Hillary supporters are worse.

http://www.dailydot.com/politics/online-incivility-study-bernie-bro/

[dana_b]

28. oh purl, come on, you know better

Seriously - we are as responsible for him as you are for that actor who beat up a Bernie supporter a few days ago.

It seems to me that people had been pushed to their limit in Nevada. They were there to vote but instead they were ignored, ridiculed and made to feel that they didn't matter at all. That's what the NV Democratic leadership caused. Then Barbara comes out and says "let's all get along" anf people had had enough. They were already taken for granted and made to feel that they didn't matter and then she comes out and says this. People exploded and acted badly. Np doubt. No one should have said anything like that. But Barbara was not on her best behavior either. She sure wan't acting like a stateswoman when she mocked the people booing. I think if she had remained calm, empathised with people and then told them her point of view, things would have turned out much better for everyone.

[auntpurl]

39. One-to-one, yes, but there is a pattern of behaviour

I'm talking about that is very unsettling from SOME Bernie supporters (not even close to a majority, obviously).

The incident you refer to with the actor is the first incident of violence associated with Hillary supporters, and obviously if it happened as the news agencies are alleging, it is a terrible event and I'd be very surprised if Hillary doesn't condemn it immediately.

But there is a pattern of behaviour of MULTIPLE incidents of big groups of angry shouting men who are Bernie supporters screaming at women, children and POC. At multiple events.

Would you ever shout "Who gives a shit, bitch?" at a sitting Democratic liberal, female Senator? Of course I know you wouldn't. Nor would I. No matter what the circumstance. IF (and nothing has been determined with confidence yet) there were procedural problems in Nevada and you were there, you'd be shouting "Let us vote!" or "Let us fucking vote!" if you were feeling particularly angry, ha. You would never in a million years shout what these guys were shouting.

I find the behaviour of these thuggish groups quite frightening, and as I said earlier on this thread, if I saw that behaviour in groups of Hillary supporters in MULTIPLE incidences and Hillary wasn't out condemning them at every opportunity, I would absolutely be reevaluating my support for her. This kind of boorish behaviour has no place in Democratic politics. We are better than that!

[dana_b]

45. I can agree with you on that

and I don't know if Bernie is aware of how some people reacted. I really don't. Just like maybe Hillary hasn't heard about this man.

I will tell you something, purl. In one video of Nevada I saw an angry man (I am assuming Bernie supporter) who was so angry that he picked up his chair and I think he was going to throw it at the stage but another man stopped him.

People get so passionate and then angry when they are ignored/taken for granted that they don't act like they normally would. No excuses though because I feel that violence is wrong. I won't apologize for those men though, purl. It's not my place to do so. They should be men and apologize for themselves. As far as seeing angry groups of men acting badly, this is the first place that I've really seen it. I do believe you, but I jus haven't seen it.

I will leave you this. Watch this video, listen to what the man is saying, and then hear the true anger and anguish in his voice. He was distraught over what happened. When people are pushed and abused like this, they do things that they aren't proud of. This was an embarrassment for the Democratic party and they should apologize to these delegates.

It's not on youtube - I found it on twitter. Sorry.

https://twitter.com/BernieVolunteer/status/731750706193932288

[auntpurl]

47. I watched the video.

There seem to be a lot of questions about what actually happened in Nevada. I do know that some 60 Bernie delegates were not allowed to vote because they had left the Democratic party, and only Democrats can vote in the state convention. That seems to be procedure - not a snub. But they basically got so furious that the Boxer incident happened, and THEN the hotel asked them to leave and they wrapped it up in a rushed manner, and THEN Bernie supporters posted the home address of Lange online, which is just awful.

Here's a pic from the Hillary Clinton rally in LA re: big crowds of screaming dudes:



I completely understand getting passionate and angry (god knows I do it sometimes! Less than I used to, though) but I do not understand this kind of behaviour. Yell about issues, about policy, about principles. The Democratic party is supposed to be the champions of women, children, and POC, not their bullies.

I don't think you have to apologise personally for their behaviour (obviously! It's not your responsibility what other people do!) but I wondered if Sanders supporters were reevaluating their support for the campaign after this pattern of behaviour. That was my reason for the OP.

[Ghost Dog]

60. I see no "big crowds of screaming dudes" in your pic. Do you have better?

Also, as currently massively employed around here, are terms like 'dudes', 'bros', amongst others not somwhat misandrist?

[mikehiggins]

49. I would agree if there was a pattern of such behavior.

However, I have seen/heard/read of no such pattern, only claims sometimes disproven by video and audio records. Recently people screaming at attendees at a Clinton rally were labeled as a Sanders group. A little more research showed the demonstration was mostly aimed at Hillary's actions as Secretary of State and the group consisted mainly of Hispanic groups that had good cause to feel aggrieved.

Earlier, Delores Huerta was supposedly denied a chance to speak by people calling out "whites only." Despite the whole incident being recorded no evidence of anyone making those remarks could be located.

There are undoubtedly assholes supporting Sanders but Sanders' supporters have many more grievances with the other campaign (the vast majority of complaints regarding "lost" or "changed" registrations occur with Sanders voters).

The allegations of widespread bad behavior on the part of Sanders supporters (other than having the nerve to oppose the coronation) don't hold water.

And the water is rising

[Silver_Witch]

58. Agreed

Boxer fueled the anger with her mocking. I was actually a bit shocked by that. It is not her usual style. In the heat of politics we are all human!

[My Good Babushka]

31. one can only speak for one's own self

freedom of speech still applies.

[Fawke Em]

32. Are you embarrassed Hillary supporters beat up Bernie supporters

and call them the "B" word, too?


'The Wire' Star Arrested for Allegedly Attacking Bernie Sanders Supporter

Read more: http://www.tmz.com/2016/05/15/the-wire-arrested-wendell-pierce-hilary-clinton-bernie-sanders/#ixzz48pDybfJL

[Prism]

35. Do you want to be part of a political campaign that beats a woman in the face?

Fair is fair. Someone got called a bitch. Shitty, but ok. Then someone else got actually beating up.

Which are we supporting?

[demmiblue]

43. And here are some of the responses regarding the assault:

I understand it's tempting

but a smack in the head will not help Sanders supporters.

Maybe he was the 100th person to tell him "Sanders marched with King."

berniebroed the wrong person.

I'm sure there are more, but I have quite a few on ignore.

[Bonobo]

36. LOL, we're not "aligned" with him. nt

[puffy socks]

37. These type of Bernie

supporters keep making fools out of themselves.
Expect more of this ridiculous nonsense to happen in Cali, and at the Convention.

I'm betting the right wing is loving all the ammo these fools are providing them.

[mountain grammy]

40. You should be embarrassed by this post.

[stonecutter357]

42. he fits perfectly with bernie and his bro's.

[bigwillq]

46. That supporter should be embarrassed for themselves

I can only control what I say and how I behave.

There's some rotten supporters in every campaign on every side.

[seekthetruth]

50. Doesn't represent me either

.....but I would be more much more embarrassed if the candidate I supported couldn't find the courage to come out against fracking or war, either. Or had a solid plan to ensure everyone had healthcare, or accepted millions in campaign contributions from the oil and pharmaceutical industries.

But I guess we have to scour the internet for a few quick shots of pissed off, unruly people who I would find obnoxious as well.

So, what's the point of the OP???

[merrily]

52. Wow. Do you even understand what happened in Nevada, Arizona, Iowa, NY, etc.

I thank heaven I am not associated with that crap

As a much lesser point, how dishonest is it to attribute a shout to Boxer to the campaign?

Sorry, this OP could hardly disgust me more.

[Silver_Witch]

53. Are you Hillary supporters not ashamed to be aligned with a man that hits a woman!

He is one of yours. Do you defend his hitting a woman? Same type of question. Are you like awendell will you hot women who disagree with you?

[oldandhappy]

54. there are nasty folk on both sides

I am for peace. Am seriously considering a long camping trip this summer, no electricity! Campaigning will be vicious I fear. The losers in this election cycle are the people who have to live thru it.

[cherokeeprogressive]

55. I did not sign up to have that guy speak for me and so am not associated with that behavior.

[Trajan]

59. What are you fishing for?

Are you insinuating that, because one Bernie supporter is a flaming asshole, we are all flaming assholes?

Are you thirteen years old?

You are blocked ... Like anybody needs this silly, fallacious nonsense ...

[Alex4Martinez]

64. The premise of your questions, "aligned with", probably leaves everyone here out.

None of us know that person, none of us would say that thing, we don't know if they were even there legitimately.
So your construction: "Bernie supporters" are you not embarrassed to be aligned with this person...
Comes off as a meritless accusation, broad brush, and/or guilt by association kind of thing.

You said any answer is valid, so I hope you'll accept this critique of your question and my answer: "I cannot answer because while I lean Bernie Sanders, I'm not aligned with this horrid person."

Endnote:
This is shaping up to be a season with a lot of nastiness, and we would do well to acknowledge that a few nutcase people are going to be out there shouting stupid things. Let's remember that Hillary or Sanders, we're more alike than we are different and we need to stop bickering over isolated incidents like this.