Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
 

Joe the Revelator

(14,915 posts)
Sun May 15, 2016, 10:53 PM May 2016

Does anyone else feel that things are starting to have less to do with Bernie....

....and more to do with actually fighting for a REAL progressive movement in American politics? Obviously, Bernie is the current standard carrier, but I think that it's good news that at this point I think the movement is going to self-sustain long after Bernie.

It speaks well for progressivism. Not so much for the Democratic Party, as it is currently made up.

78 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Does anyone else feel that things are starting to have less to do with Bernie.... (Original Post) Joe the Revelator May 2016 OP
Perhaps self destruct. Thinkingabout May 2016 #1
you hope virtualobserver May 2016 #13
Not if I have anything to do with it. nt SusanCalvin May 2016 #16
Good to hear. Thinkingabout May 2016 #17
Yes the Democratic Party is self-destructing. JimDandy May 2016 #73
If I'm any indication then yes, it is. My eyes are wide open this election. trudyco May 2016 #78
it never did have that much to do with Bernie AgerolanAmerican May 2016 #2
Exactly. Very well said. Joe the Revelator May 2016 #3
+1000 Hydra May 2016 #15
Agree. And he also has enough credibility and a record that we know who he is lostnfound May 2016 #56
Completely agree beedle May 2016 #20
He lent the movement credibility and acted as a focusing lens for ideas of fair play. Ed Suspicious May 2016 #23
He would be upset to know this.... Txbluedog May 2016 #30
Brockbot says what? BillZBubb May 2016 #32
+1.nt Snotcicles May 2016 #38
Results of Jury, LOL B Calm May 2016 #53
I smell some REALLY fresh meat. JimDandy May 2016 #74
Oooooh! Textbook case of projection! Jackilope May 2016 #39
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool BernieforPres2016 May 2016 #49
Do people actually believe this? SpareribSP May 2016 #69
Anger without direction or destination gets tuned out. Sanders has poor messaging skills. randome May 2016 #65
He's very focused and almost 1/2 of Dems tuned him in and voted for him! JimDandy May 2016 #76
"Break up the banks" is a soundbite, not focus. randome May 2016 #77
True. This is bigger. Progressive change's biggest enemy is Beltway Democrats. Eleanors38 May 2016 #72
Bernie has desensitized the electorate, much like Goldwater did for Reagan. immoderate May 2016 #4
Huh? nt SusanCalvin May 2016 #7
He was saying that Bernie has made it easier for actual progressives... Joe the Revelator May 2016 #11
Hope so. SusanCalvin May 2016 #14
Joe got it right. And I agree that Bernie is real. immoderate May 2016 #68
Yeah it is pretty clear Sander's waited to see if someone like Warren would take the helm Ash_F May 2016 #5
It's strange to me that Warren wasn't willing to take up the cause, but you're right.... Joe the Revelator May 2016 #8
It is not strange to me. Look at how party leaders tore into Sanders Ash_F May 2016 #12
Well, I hope so. nt SusanCalvin May 2016 #6
It's always been about more than Bernie -- Though it is about him too Armstead May 2016 #9
Bernie has never claimed that it was "his turn" tularetom May 2016 #10
It's definitely about Bernie, and how he has poisoned his followers to hating every Dem but him. CrowCityDem May 2016 #18
Or how he showed Dems we don't have to settle for moderate republicans Joe the Revelator May 2016 #22
Yep. Once he concedes his campaign and everything associated collapses. nt stevenleser May 2016 #24
Brockbot says what? BillZBubb May 2016 #33
+1 uponit7771 May 2016 #45
Speaking "truths" like this SpareribSP May 2016 #71
Bernie himself would agree with you... NewImproved Deal May 2016 #19
My extreme loathing/dislike of right wing Democrats has nothing to do with Bernie. nt m-lekktor May 2016 #21
Of course.... Corporate666 May 2016 #25
Brockbot says what? BillZBubb May 2016 #34
Jeebus! Amaril May 2016 #57
Thanks. I've been alerted on several times. BillZBubb May 2016 #59
In other words, now that we have to admit that Bernie is COLGATE4 May 2016 #26
No, let's make sure it does dreamnightwind May 2016 #35
It came out last week that there is a document circulating of just that brush May 2016 #55
+1 uponit7771 May 2016 #46
Exactly. nt auntpurl May 2016 #50
Message auto-removed Name removed May 2016 #58
We'll see in the midterms if Bernie rallies his peeps to defeat Republicans redstateblues May 2016 #27
Wouldn't that depend on what president Golden Sacks' policies had been? BillZBubb May 2016 #61
I think this is a continuation of the occupy movement and boy has it grown! coffeeAM May 2016 #28
Not Me - We - Us - Together -- Much More Than Sanders Now cantbeserious May 2016 #29
Joe the Revelator—Departures and Arrivals CobaltBlue May 2016 #31
Bernie is 75 years old... wundermaus May 2016 #36
Absolutely Joe... This struggle has been in play for decades, centuries really. 2banon May 2016 #37
This is a great post, one that should be read by all Americans. ladjf May 2016 #52
Great summary of the situation! BillZBubb May 2016 #62
This is about much more than a progressive movement. It's returning a bought and paid for govt that Skwmom May 2016 #40
Yes. I do. RiverNoord May 2016 #41
Yes, although I must say I think that was always the case. TDale313 May 2016 #42
It's the year of the Anarchist so far. The_Casual_Observer May 2016 #43
Haven't see many anarchist....just some motivated progressives. Joe the Revelator May 2016 #48
Anarchist???? Where are they? BillZBubb May 2016 #63
The Reagan Revolution is dead, & we've got to stop reacting to it. It's time for a true Progressive highprincipleswork May 2016 #44
They are not tone-deaf BillZBubb May 2016 #64
Well, if they want to win elections, they better get on the side of history. They will highprincipleswork May 2016 #70
K&R Scuba May 2016 #47
Don't be fooled. When college students realize that trillions aren't heading their way, this Trust Buster May 2016 #51
Why are you so dismissive of the next generation of dem voters? Joe the Revelator May 2016 #67
Someone posted this yesterday and it seems to fit everywhere. pdsimdars May 2016 #54
This has been cooking since at least 2009 nadinbrzezinski May 2016 #60
I remain unconvinced about any "REAL progressive movement" Blue_Tires May 2016 #66
No, this primary, this entire year, DU, has all been about Clinton. randome May 2016 #75

trudyco

(1,258 posts)
78. If I'm any indication then yes, it is. My eyes are wide open this election.
Mon May 16, 2016, 09:24 PM
May 2016

It's been good to see the crowds, the groundswell of donations, people on the internet speaking out... since DU is peppered with brockbots I've been finding a lot of new places to get my news. Looks like a lot of oldtimers left DU.

And Bernie has been saying great things, it was his words that got me electrified. He isn't as eloquent a speaker is Obama but he's more honest. He has definitely tapped into something.

Just like Trump has tapped into right wing anger and frustration (of course he twisted it with racism).

 

AgerolanAmerican

(1,000 posts)
2. it never did have that much to do with Bernie
Sun May 15, 2016, 10:55 PM
May 2016

Bernie's role was to stand up and channel the profound anger that was already out there and continues to build with each passing day.

He is a vessel for, not the leader of, this groundswell of popular opinion.

Hydra

(14,459 posts)
15. +1000
Sun May 15, 2016, 11:03 PM
May 2016

He speaks the language of the movement, and he has been nice enough to help lead the charge.

Who knows? He may even win. But it won't be the end if he does.

lostnfound

(16,179 posts)
56. Agree. And he also has enough credibility and a record that we know who he is
Mon May 16, 2016, 10:01 AM
May 2016

He's spent years in congress NOT being bought. We know who he is and what he stands for, because he's and idealist consistent since the days of the civil rights movement.

I hope we can translate this to other progressive candidates. But it is so easy for popular movements to get co-opted and infested by Trojan horses, spies, moles, etc.

 

beedle

(1,235 posts)
20. Completely agree
Sun May 15, 2016, 11:14 PM
May 2016

I've followed Bernie for years on Hartmann "Fridays with Bernie" and while he has always been mostly progressive and consistently so, he does have some flaws, but none of that is a priority, there are lots of progressive people, even some in government, but they are useless if corporations and elites are allowed to buy influence ... if 40% of every politicians times is taken up begging elites for money, meeting with elites to hear their opinions in exchange for their money.

As long as that continues then progressives will only get anything when it just happens to align with the wants of the elites.

Bernie is where he is for one reason only, to get money out of politics ... IMO, he's not there to make minority rights better, he not there to improve health care, he's not even there to save the middle class and get a living wage for the poor ... all very laudable and worthwhile causes, and things that need to be addressed as soon as possible, but until the elite money influence is removed, Sanders one and only real job, then none of those other goals will ever be achieved ... oh, for sure, like they have for decades, the faux 3rd way establishment progressives will talk about those issues, use them as wedge issues, maybe even really care about those issues, but until they seriously take on "the money" then they are either stupid or outright malicious.

 

Txbluedog

(1,128 posts)
30. He would be upset to know this....
Sun May 15, 2016, 11:58 PM
May 2016

At this point it's all about him as far as he and Jane are concerned

 

B Calm

(28,762 posts)
53. Results of Jury, LOL
Mon May 16, 2016, 08:43 AM
May 2016

On Mon May 16, 2016, 07:38 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

Brockbot says what?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1970006

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Personal attack.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon May 16, 2016, 07:42 AM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Enough with the personal attacks and calling posters trolls.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Many posts in this thread are more offensive and if you alerted on all of them you'd be up all night.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: OMG, personal attack LOL. Grow some skin
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

Jackilope

(819 posts)
39. Oooooh! Textbook case of projection!
Mon May 16, 2016, 12:17 AM
May 2016

Transcripts and speeches indicate it is HRC all about her. Entitled, say anything, fake, triangulating HRC.

Bernie = We, Hillary =Me

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
65. Anger without direction or destination gets tuned out. Sanders has poor messaging skills.
Mon May 16, 2016, 10:23 AM
May 2016

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
77. "Break up the banks" is a soundbite, not focus.
Mon May 16, 2016, 09:08 PM
May 2016

There is a reason Sanders has fewer Congressional endorsements than Ted Cruz. He's not good at bridge-building, forming coalitions. Without that, his message is easy to ignore, which is a pity. I agree he's been a formidable primary opponent for Clinton but that clearly is not enough.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

Ash_F

(5,861 posts)
5. Yeah it is pretty clear Sander's waited to see if someone like Warren would take the helm
Sun May 15, 2016, 10:58 PM
May 2016

Big props to him standing up in the end, but this is about the next generation of leaders now.

 

Joe the Revelator

(14,915 posts)
8. It's strange to me that Warren wasn't willing to take up the cause, but you're right....
Sun May 15, 2016, 10:59 PM
May 2016

huge props to Bernie for not sitting on his hands.

Ash_F

(5,861 posts)
12. It is not strange to me. Look at how party leaders tore into Sanders
Sun May 15, 2016, 11:02 PM
May 2016

She knew what they would do to her.

As i said, big props to Sanders for stepping up in the end, though he did hesitate. I can see why.

tularetom

(23,664 posts)
10. Bernie has never claimed that it was "his turn"
Sun May 15, 2016, 11:00 PM
May 2016

He always said it was more about the issues rather than personalities, and more about the citizens than the candidates.

Nobody else had the cojones to stand up to the Clinton/DNC cabal, so Im glad he did.

 

NewImproved Deal

(534 posts)
19. Bernie himself would agree with you...
Sun May 15, 2016, 11:14 PM
May 2016

The Clinton Machine's vicious, amoral, greedy Yuppies can't cram this Genie back in the bottle...

[link:|

Corporate666

(587 posts)
25. Of course....
Sun May 15, 2016, 11:51 PM
May 2016

as it becomes clear that he voters have rejected Bernie and his candidacy, people will always seek out justifications, rationales and excuses for the situation. People don't like to lose. People don't like to admit they have been beaten. People will come up with all sorts of rationalizations to avoid it.

BillZBubb

(10,650 posts)
59. Thanks. I've been alerted on several times.
Mon May 16, 2016, 10:09 AM
May 2016

But the low post count/Brock talking points are just too obvious.

COLGATE4

(14,732 posts)
26. In other words, now that we have to admit that Bernie is
Sun May 15, 2016, 11:51 PM
May 2016

toast, let's pretend that his movement is going to go on after he has lost.

brush

(53,782 posts)
55. It came out last week that there is a document circulating of just that
Mon May 16, 2016, 09:03 AM
May 2016

A call for a convention of Sanders supporters after the conventions and election to organize and structure a continuation of Sanders' movement with the purpose of first, defeating Trump, then backing progressive candidates going forward towards 2018 to try to gain the House and Senate.

The problem is a spokesman for the Sanders campaign said they had no knowledge of the document or movement and their focus is on winning the nomination.

Don't know what to make of this but I hope this doesn't evaporate like Occupy did.

Response to COLGATE4 (Reply #26)

BillZBubb

(10,650 posts)
61. Wouldn't that depend on what president Golden Sacks' policies had been?
Mon May 16, 2016, 10:11 AM
May 2016

Why would he try to rally his supporters to back Third Way policies? They wouldn't anyway.

 

CobaltBlue

(1,122 posts)
31. Joe the Revelator—Departures and Arrivals
Mon May 16, 2016, 12:01 AM
May 2016

History shows that for such sweeping change in the American body politic…there has to be exits [Old Guard] in order for the emergence of new arrivals.

A lot more people who yield the most influence in the Democratic—and I will add Republican—party will have to go. Their exits, including very much Bill and Hillary Clinton, are overdue. And that will end up happening. The Bushes are done in the Republican Party.

wundermaus

(1,673 posts)
36. Bernie is 75 years old...
Mon May 16, 2016, 12:15 AM
May 2016

He has maybe 10 good years left to live. In a way, I hope he is not elected because I want him to enjoy his final years with his family and friends. He has earned a rest given all he has done for decades in the name of social justice. It is a shame on all of us that he is the only progressive that stood up to the plate and took a swing at the presidential ball. I sincerely hope he inspires the up and coming generation of progressives to think big thoughts and to do great things. The world needs people like Bernie, and a lot more of them, too.

 

2banon

(7,321 posts)
37. Absolutely Joe... This struggle has been in play for decades, centuries really.
Mon May 16, 2016, 12:15 AM
May 2016

moments in time, someone is in a position to take the helm "within the system" in terms of leadership making significant headway in leveling the socio-economic playing field for the poor working classes.

FDR was that person, though he was of the very privileged class. None the less, he stepped forward at the moment it was as desperately needed as it ever gets.

The deliberate, methodical almost complete demolition of FDR's legacy by our own party, his own party, should be considered the biggest, most egregious betrayal of all time.

We all know who that Democratic President was, and we all know how he plans to finish the job once back in the W.H.

We have the most unique, rare opportunity since FDR to restore the policies created then and flip the Neo Liberal/Neo Conservative agenda on it's head and hopefully into the waste heap of the gilded ages which came before.

Bernie is that individual who represents this goal as POTUS.

But in a rigged system, as it appears TPTB are involved in, and will continue to do everything they can to make sure that never happens.

So much depends on overwhelming voter turnout. Beyond the needed majorities.

Those are too easy to flip or dispose into waste dumps and incinerators.

The numbers have to be so grounswelling, as to be impossible to get away with vote rigging while the world watches on. Beyond the number of voter turnout for Obama in the General even.

Beyond DWS reach.

Failing that, we fight on. the struggle will continue beyond this election, as it has for the past 45 years.





Skwmom

(12,685 posts)
40. This is about much more than a progressive movement. It's returning a bought and paid for govt that
Mon May 16, 2016, 12:29 AM
May 2016

works to the 1% to working for the people.

 

RiverNoord

(1,150 posts)
41. Yes. I do.
Mon May 16, 2016, 12:48 AM
May 2016

And the only possible way it can move forward, absolutely the only way, is a full-scale drive to build a third major party.

Personal, I'd take the plunge and go with 'Liberal Democratic Party of the United States.' (Bernie Sanders's candidacy has taught us, among many things, that American voters are actually more than OK with straight talk and the straight-up announcement that it's a liberal party would be a direct challenge to the DFL's careful avoidance of such terms, using innuendo and weasel-words in their place).

It would field some candidates in areas with conservative Democrats in cases where progressive candidates would potentially be viable, or where Republicans are vulnerable to genuinely liberal/progressive candidates (Bernie's done us all a phenomenal service demonstrating how disaffected Republicans who realize that the party they've voted for actually doesn't give a crap about them will seriously consider liberal alternatives, so long as it's perfectly clear just exactly what 'liberal' means to them. The party's Congressional and Senate members would caucus with the DFL, but hold the line on matters critical to the liberal/progressive agenda of the party. In other cases it would endorse DFL candidates directly. And a Presidential candidate would be a long-term goal, not an immediate one.

The infrastructure exists, just broken up right now into a great many individual organizations and single-issue groups. Most are unlikely to achieve their goals substantially in the context of the current corporate/finance controlled Democratic party infrastructure.

The idea of challenging 'establishment/conservative' Democrats from within the party is a tempting one. It's also not going to get anywhere. We've seen what the corporate media can do to silence liberal/progressive candidates - it wields immense power within the party. But we've also seen, not just through this campaign 'season' but throughout the world, the power if the Internet as an organizing, crowdsourcing, and fundraising tool. It can be used to coordinate extremely efficient field work, and both muster and deliver resources rapidly to where they're required.

I may be wrong, but I don't believe that the Democratic party of 2016 is seriously vulnerable to widespread challenges of candidates whose agendas actually roughly align with its formal platform. It's dominated by interests whose agendas are directly at odds with the historic platform of the party, and the entire campaign finance system is based on corporate sponsorship of the party's candidates, guaranteeing that all considerations other than electing candidates are just window-dressing.

To succeed, it would have to be a tremendous undertaking, unprecedented in its scope in the history of American politics, and require a lot of smart, brave, and dedicated people to endure a lot of 'fails' in order to break through with initially small numbers of wins.

I'm in. Any group activity worth doing begins with those words. Easy words to say, but for a project like this they shouldn't be spoken lightly. It would require a massive amount of work, a lot of very sharp people who might consider taking on the mantle of leadership, and patience.

And it would be the political party equivalent of the rare genuinely 'employee-owned company.' It would be financed by hard working people who would be willing to both commit resources to the effort and be a part of it.

Any thoughts?

TDale313

(7,820 posts)
42. Yes, although I must say I think that was always the case.
Mon May 16, 2016, 01:00 AM
May 2016

It was never just or even mostly about Bernie. It was about the ideas.

 

highprincipleswork

(3,111 posts)
44. The Reagan Revolution is dead, & we've got to stop reacting to it. It's time for a true Progressive
Mon May 16, 2016, 01:39 AM
May 2016

Democratic Party, that builds on traditional Democratic values and rebuilds the middle class and working class chances of Americans everywhere.

The time is ripe. Can the leaders of the party realize this opportunity, or are they so tone-deaf as not to notice?

BillZBubb

(10,650 posts)
64. They are not tone-deaf
Mon May 16, 2016, 10:20 AM
May 2016

The leaders simply don't want a progressive Democratic party. They don't see it as an opportunity for them.

 

highprincipleswork

(3,111 posts)
70. Well, if they want to win elections, they better get on the side of history. They will
Mon May 16, 2016, 12:24 PM
May 2016

continue to experience party, strife, mass defections, low turnout, and minority status if they keep with their current reactionary plans.

 

Trust Buster

(7,299 posts)
51. Don't be fooled. When college students realize that trillions aren't heading their way, this
Mon May 16, 2016, 08:05 AM
May 2016

so called movement will stall.

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
60. This has been cooking since at least 2009
Mon May 16, 2016, 10:11 AM
May 2016

some argue since the Battle of Seattle. This is just another marker on the road, and it will get very bumpy.

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
66. I remain unconvinced about any "REAL progressive movement"
Mon May 16, 2016, 10:40 AM
May 2016

until I see it on a state/local/congressional level...

True 'revolutions' are built from the bottom-up, and not the top-down. So 2018 will show if there's a real movement, or if it was all talk...

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
75. No, this primary, this entire year, DU, has all been about Clinton.
Mon May 16, 2016, 08:58 PM
May 2016

That guy she was running against is almost a footnote already because his followers yearn to talk about Clinton. They have made themselves irrelevant. Their issues are being forgotten.

Well done.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

Latest Discussions»Retired Forums»2016 Postmortem»Does anyone else feel tha...