2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumDoes anyone else feel that things are starting to have less to do with Bernie....
....and more to do with actually fighting for a REAL progressive movement in American politics? Obviously, Bernie is the current standard carrier, but I think that it's good news that at this point I think the movement is going to self-sustain long after Bernie.
It speaks well for progressivism. Not so much for the Democratic Party, as it is currently made up.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)JimDandy
(7,318 posts)trudyco
(1,258 posts)It's been good to see the crowds, the groundswell of donations, people on the internet speaking out... since DU is peppered with brockbots I've been finding a lot of new places to get my news. Looks like a lot of oldtimers left DU.
And Bernie has been saying great things, it was his words that got me electrified. He isn't as eloquent a speaker is Obama but he's more honest. He has definitely tapped into something.
Just like Trump has tapped into right wing anger and frustration (of course he twisted it with racism).
AgerolanAmerican
(1,000 posts)Bernie's role was to stand up and channel the profound anger that was already out there and continues to build with each passing day.
He is a vessel for, not the leader of, this groundswell of popular opinion.
Joe the Revelator
(14,915 posts)Hydra
(14,459 posts)He speaks the language of the movement, and he has been nice enough to help lead the charge.
Who knows? He may even win. But it won't be the end if he does.
lostnfound
(16,179 posts)He's spent years in congress NOT being bought. We know who he is and what he stands for, because he's and idealist consistent since the days of the civil rights movement.
I hope we can translate this to other progressive candidates. But it is so easy for popular movements to get co-opted and infested by Trojan horses, spies, moles, etc.
beedle
(1,235 posts)I've followed Bernie for years on Hartmann "Fridays with Bernie" and while he has always been mostly progressive and consistently so, he does have some flaws, but none of that is a priority, there are lots of progressive people, even some in government, but they are useless if corporations and elites are allowed to buy influence ... if 40% of every politicians times is taken up begging elites for money, meeting with elites to hear their opinions in exchange for their money.
As long as that continues then progressives will only get anything when it just happens to align with the wants of the elites.
Bernie is where he is for one reason only, to get money out of politics ... IMO, he's not there to make minority rights better, he not there to improve health care, he's not even there to save the middle class and get a living wage for the poor ... all very laudable and worthwhile causes, and things that need to be addressed as soon as possible, but until the elite money influence is removed, Sanders one and only real job, then none of those other goals will ever be achieved ... oh, for sure, like they have for decades, the faux 3rd way establishment progressives will talk about those issues, use them as wedge issues, maybe even really care about those issues, but until they seriously take on "the money" then they are either stupid or outright malicious.
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)Txbluedog
(1,128 posts)At this point it's all about him as far as he and Jane are concerned
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)Snotcicles
(9,089 posts)B Calm
(28,762 posts)On Mon May 16, 2016, 07:38 AM an alert was sent on the following post:
Brockbot says what?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1970006
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
Personal attack.
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon May 16, 2016, 07:42 AM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
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JimDandy
(7,318 posts)Best kind to cook...
Jackilope
(819 posts)Transcripts and speeches indicate it is HRC all about her. Entitled, say anything, fake, triangulating HRC.
Bernie = We, Hillary =Me
BernieforPres2016
(3,017 posts)than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
SpareribSP
(325 posts)randome
(34,845 posts)[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]
JimDandy
(7,318 posts)randome
(34,845 posts)There is a reason Sanders has fewer Congressional endorsements than Ted Cruz. He's not good at bridge-building, forming coalitions. Without that, his message is easy to ignore, which is a pity. I agree he's been a formidable primary opponent for Clinton but that clearly is not enough.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)immoderate
(20,885 posts)--imm
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)Joe the Revelator
(14,915 posts)...that will come after him.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)Although I would call Bernie an "actual progressive."
immoderate
(20,885 posts)--imm
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)Big props to him standing up in the end, but this is about the next generation of leaders now.
Joe the Revelator
(14,915 posts)huge props to Bernie for not sitting on his hands.
Ash_F
(5,861 posts)She knew what they would do to her.
As i said, big props to Sanders for stepping up in the end, though he did hesitate. I can see why.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)Armstead
(47,803 posts)tularetom
(23,664 posts)He always said it was more about the issues rather than personalities, and more about the citizens than the candidates.
Nobody else had the cojones to stand up to the Clinton/DNC cabal, so Im glad he did.
CrowCityDem
(2,348 posts)Joe the Revelator
(14,915 posts)with d's next to their names.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)uponit7771
(90,346 posts)SpareribSP
(325 posts)Is pointlessly divisive.
NewImproved Deal
(534 posts)The Clinton Machine's vicious, amoral, greedy Yuppies can't cram this Genie back in the bottle...
[link:|
m-lekktor
(3,675 posts)Corporate666
(587 posts)as it becomes clear that he voters have rejected Bernie and his candidacy, people will always seek out justifications, rationales and excuses for the situation. People don't like to lose. People don't like to admit they have been beaten. People will come up with all sorts of rationalizations to avoid it.
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)They're all over this thread like gnats. Thanks for risking a hide by calling them out.
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)But the low post count/Brock talking points are just too obvious.
COLGATE4
(14,732 posts)toast, let's pretend that his movement is going to go on after he has lost.
dreamnightwind
(4,775 posts)brush
(53,782 posts)A call for a convention of Sanders supporters after the conventions and election to organize and structure a continuation of Sanders' movement with the purpose of first, defeating Trump, then backing progressive candidates going forward towards 2018 to try to gain the House and Senate.
The problem is a spokesman for the Sanders campaign said they had no knowledge of the document or movement and their focus is on winning the nomination.
Don't know what to make of this but I hope this doesn't evaporate like Occupy did.
auntpurl
(4,311 posts)Response to COLGATE4 (Reply #26)
Name removed Message auto-removed
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)I have my doubts
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)Why would he try to rally his supporters to back Third Way policies? They wouldn't anyway.
coffeeAM
(180 posts)cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
CobaltBlue
(1,122 posts)History shows that for such sweeping change in the American body politic
there has to be exits [Old Guard] in order for the emergence of new arrivals.
A lot more people who yield the most influence in the Democraticand I will add Republicanparty will have to go. Their exits, including very much Bill and Hillary Clinton, are overdue. And that will end up happening. The Bushes are done in the Republican Party.
wundermaus
(1,673 posts)He has maybe 10 good years left to live. In a way, I hope he is not elected because I want him to enjoy his final years with his family and friends. He has earned a rest given all he has done for decades in the name of social justice. It is a shame on all of us that he is the only progressive that stood up to the plate and took a swing at the presidential ball. I sincerely hope he inspires the up and coming generation of progressives to think big thoughts and to do great things. The world needs people like Bernie, and a lot more of them, too.
2banon
(7,321 posts)moments in time, someone is in a position to take the helm "within the system" in terms of leadership making significant headway in leveling the socio-economic playing field for the poor working classes.
FDR was that person, though he was of the very privileged class. None the less, he stepped forward at the moment it was as desperately needed as it ever gets.
The deliberate, methodical almost complete demolition of FDR's legacy by our own party, his own party, should be considered the biggest, most egregious betrayal of all time.
We all know who that Democratic President was, and we all know how he plans to finish the job once back in the W.H.
We have the most unique, rare opportunity since FDR to restore the policies created then and flip the Neo Liberal/Neo Conservative agenda on it's head and hopefully into the waste heap of the gilded ages which came before.
Bernie is that individual who represents this goal as POTUS.
But in a rigged system, as it appears TPTB are involved in, and will continue to do everything they can to make sure that never happens.
So much depends on overwhelming voter turnout. Beyond the needed majorities.
Those are too easy to flip or dispose into waste dumps and incinerators.
The numbers have to be so grounswelling, as to be impossible to get away with vote rigging while the world watches on. Beyond the number of voter turnout for Obama in the General even.
Beyond DWS reach.
Failing that, we fight on. the struggle will continue beyond this election, as it has for the past 45 years.
ladjf
(17,320 posts)BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)Skwmom
(12,685 posts)works to the 1% to working for the people.
RiverNoord
(1,150 posts)And the only possible way it can move forward, absolutely the only way, is a full-scale drive to build a third major party.
Personal, I'd take the plunge and go with 'Liberal Democratic Party of the United States.' (Bernie Sanders's candidacy has taught us, among many things, that American voters are actually more than OK with straight talk and the straight-up announcement that it's a liberal party would be a direct challenge to the DFL's careful avoidance of such terms, using innuendo and weasel-words in their place).
It would field some candidates in areas with conservative Democrats in cases where progressive candidates would potentially be viable, or where Republicans are vulnerable to genuinely liberal/progressive candidates (Bernie's done us all a phenomenal service demonstrating how disaffected Republicans who realize that the party they've voted for actually doesn't give a crap about them will seriously consider liberal alternatives, so long as it's perfectly clear just exactly what 'liberal' means to them. The party's Congressional and Senate members would caucus with the DFL, but hold the line on matters critical to the liberal/progressive agenda of the party. In other cases it would endorse DFL candidates directly. And a Presidential candidate would be a long-term goal, not an immediate one.
The infrastructure exists, just broken up right now into a great many individual organizations and single-issue groups. Most are unlikely to achieve their goals substantially in the context of the current corporate/finance controlled Democratic party infrastructure.
The idea of challenging 'establishment/conservative' Democrats from within the party is a tempting one. It's also not going to get anywhere. We've seen what the corporate media can do to silence liberal/progressive candidates - it wields immense power within the party. But we've also seen, not just through this campaign 'season' but throughout the world, the power if the Internet as an organizing, crowdsourcing, and fundraising tool. It can be used to coordinate extremely efficient field work, and both muster and deliver resources rapidly to where they're required.
I may be wrong, but I don't believe that the Democratic party of 2016 is seriously vulnerable to widespread challenges of candidates whose agendas actually roughly align with its formal platform. It's dominated by interests whose agendas are directly at odds with the historic platform of the party, and the entire campaign finance system is based on corporate sponsorship of the party's candidates, guaranteeing that all considerations other than electing candidates are just window-dressing.
To succeed, it would have to be a tremendous undertaking, unprecedented in its scope in the history of American politics, and require a lot of smart, brave, and dedicated people to endure a lot of 'fails' in order to break through with initially small numbers of wins.
I'm in. Any group activity worth doing begins with those words. Easy words to say, but for a project like this they shouldn't be spoken lightly. It would require a massive amount of work, a lot of very sharp people who might consider taking on the mantle of leadership, and patience.
And it would be the political party equivalent of the rare genuinely 'employee-owned company.' It would be financed by hard working people who would be willing to both commit resources to the effort and be a part of it.
Any thoughts?
TDale313
(7,820 posts)It was never just or even mostly about Bernie. It was about the ideas.
The_Casual_Observer
(27,742 posts)Joe the Revelator
(14,915 posts)BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)highprincipleswork
(3,111 posts)Democratic Party, that builds on traditional Democratic values and rebuilds the middle class and working class chances of Americans everywhere.
The time is ripe. Can the leaders of the party realize this opportunity, or are they so tone-deaf as not to notice?
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)The leaders simply don't want a progressive Democratic party. They don't see it as an opportunity for them.
highprincipleswork
(3,111 posts)continue to experience party, strife, mass defections, low turnout, and minority status if they keep with their current reactionary plans.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)Trust Buster
(7,299 posts)so called movement will stall.
Joe the Revelator
(14,915 posts)I find that troubling.
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts),
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)some argue since the Battle of Seattle. This is just another marker on the road, and it will get very bumpy.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)until I see it on a state/local/congressional level...
True 'revolutions' are built from the bottom-up, and not the top-down. So 2018 will show if there's a real movement, or if it was all talk...
randome
(34,845 posts)That guy she was running against is almost a footnote already because his followers yearn to talk about Clinton. They have made themselves irrelevant. Their issues are being forgotten.
Well done.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]