So we are watching the democratic party split from within...

[Joe the Revelator]

Thanks DNC. Thank you for putting your full weight and support behind moderate republican candidates. Thank you for being 'ok' with the status quo. Thank you for no longer progressing. Thank you for sucking all the enthusiasm out of the next generation of voters. Thank you for being completely tone deaf. Thank you for Hillary Clinton. Thank you for killing a once great party.

Now, hopefully, within the next four years, we can organize a REAL progressive party.

[MattP]

1. You are blaming the DNC for the voters rejecting Bernie

He lost, it's over and life goes on.

[grasswire]

2. how about addressing the issues in the OP? nt

[jillan]

6. Because their answer to everything is WINNING!

Hillary's campaign thinks they are Charlie Sheen.

Even Boxer went there last night. Nothing matters because she's winning. We don't have to talk about policy anymore because she's winning. Winning winning winning winning.

[Merryland]

29. I have noticed that too. Winning, math, numbers, etc.

no dialogue. Just "we're winning, suck it up." When they aren't even fucking winning!

[840high]

46. Why don't they care about our country anymore?

[Bobbie Jo]

83. Yeah, why do they hate America?

[Joe the Revelator]

3. And sometimes parties move away from their base, and its time,as a group, to shake things up.

I think we are getting to this time. I don't really care what the party, as it is managed now, does going forward. They no longer represent people like me. That is a problem. For the DNC. Life does go on, as do political parties.

[MattP]

4. Your idea of what a republican is out of whack

Just because someone has a 91 percent liberal rating does not make them a republican as compared to Bernie, and i won't get into his record.

[Joe the Revelator]

8. You don't get it.

A 91% 'liberal' rating doesn't mean what it use to . That is the problem. Policy wise, Hillary is no 'liberal' and certainly not a progressive, as what the terms actually mean. What the current DNC has turned them into is an entirely different issue.

[MattP]

12. You don't accept reality

I see people here acting like gun nuts defending Bernie's statements on guns and twisting themselves into pretzels to defend him on his minuteman vote or his lack of disclosure but he's not infallible, he very much a pol.

[Joe the Revelator]

13. I think you're drifting way off course..

Nobody is making an argument that Bernie isn't a politician, but he walks the progressive talk more often than not, and certainly more than Hillary. There is no perfect candidate, but there are good candidates out there. Even non-pandering conservative 'democrats' are better than what Hillary has become/always was.

[MattP]

19. Do i wish Russ Fiengold was running, of course

That's about the only politician i fully trust

[Joe the Revelator]

20. Then why settle for someone so far right of that?

Does she really speak for you or your political interests?

[MattP]

24. I don't see her as right wing, i know you do

And there's nothing I can do about that

[Joe the Revelator]

25. How much do you trust her, let's say, in comparison to Fiengold

and i'm not trying to change your mind either, just get some insite.

[Armstead]

17. He's a progressive politician witjh integrity. Not perfect but light years ahead

If you are all for Multi National Monopolists and Wall Street Criminals running the country, then I guess Clinton is great.

The system is utterly corrupt -- and the Democratic has fallen into deep systemic corruption.

Some of us would like to see that change, and have an actual political system in which there is an actual contest between partoes that represent liberal/progressive (on real issues of Wealth and Power) and conservative.

If you do not see that -- or care -- that's fine. But please don't claim that reality is something it is not.

[libdem4life]

92. One big problem ... Superdelegates. Created to make sure no populist

wins the nomination. Even, in this case, when he has a much better chance in the GE. I'd call that lots of things, but "shooting the Party in the foot" is best suited for this forum.

[JDPriestly]

55. Hillary's policies on the Middle East, war, peace, wages, Social

Security (don't trust her on that), trade (she loved the TPP before she rejected the labor provisions in it and they are not the only problem with the TPP), jobs, income disparity (she thinks economic growth will take care of that -- it won't) and many, many other Hillary stands on the issues that are unacceptable.

Hillary is the can't do candidate. Bernie is the can do candidate.

It isn't about guns. Hillary is not going to succeed in doing anything about guns that Bernie wouldn't do. She says you can't do the things we need and can do and says we can do the things we can't and never will be able to do. You can't establish a no fly zone over Syria when the Russians are already flying there. Not going to happen.

Thinking people are supporting Sanders. That is why so many students are supporting him. They are not yet too preoccupied with work and children to think.

Hillary's time is over. Those who don't realize that she is a voice of the past and not of the present or future will regret their lack of understanding. Hillary and her friends are purposely and childishly offending many in the Democratic Party who have been loyal for decades.

This is not 2008. This is 2016. Hillary and her supporters do not understand that. She is going out of her way to offend Bernie supporters. That strategy is foolish and will backfire.

[Ikonoklast]

94. So much this. Clinton supporters refuse to see their version of the party is dead.

The Democratic Party is losing the future.

[CrispyQ]

93. Well, it all depends on which republican you are talking about.

Today's republican or republicans of the 50's/60's? Today's GOP is batshit crazy. Today's democratic party looks a lot like the GOP of 50 years ago. A lot of old time lefties have seen both parties shift to the right to the point that the democratic party no longer represents the traditional values it used to. Is it better than the batshit party? Yeah, on some issues. Economically? Not so much. At some point they can call themselves dems all they want, but they are not even center anymore.

Obama is just an icon for the entire party in this cartoon & they've been doing this for 35 years.





on edit: Chomsky: The Majority of Today's Elected Democrats Are Moderate Republicans
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027834576

[bvar22]

98. I like the way Rachel explained it:

[Thirties Child]

105. You're right on. The Democrats are the moderate Republicans of the 1960s.

Unfortunately, many people who call themselves Dems have no idea what the party once was. When my granddaughters asked me the difference between the two parties, I told them Republicans are for business, Democrats are for people. I think today I'd tell them Republicans are for business, Democrats are for business but pretend to be for people.

[Demsrule86]

101. If you represented the base

Bernie would have won...he didn't.

[tokenlib]

48. You just don't get it do you...n/t

..

[uponit7771]

68. Reality is easier to get than camplaigning

[PATRICK]

66. The loser

is showing up at the Convention with a thousand and a half or more delegates ideologically committed to change the leadership and the the settled non choice business as unusual crowd. He has already won his first and major goal. As for the presidency I don't see this as a primary concern of the party leadership. I could point you to real open election contests such as Carter and Morris Udall(the liberal Utah Senator) resolving their issues and contest graciously with excellent party unity. Or 1968, the tragic fiasco where all factions of the party lost, and of course unity suffered. I think the potential this year is even worse and zero effort if being made either from arrogance or fear.

[uponit7771]

67. Sanders had a greeting with the pope so shouldn't he get more delegates than Clinton!?!??! /sarcasm

[Old Union Guy]

71. I'm blaming the DNC for running a war criminal.

A general election should be the ultimate moral dilemma.

[bkkyosemite]

102. LOL...totally blinded by the manipulation of the Party and it's cabal.

[Hydra]

5. This was predicted

But like everything else this cycle, came much earlier than expected.

Team Hill may be OK with election fraud and cozying up to Bushco, but they are destroying the party. I'm glad to see the time finally come where people are not willing to overlook those things.

[Waiting For Everyman]

7. All the party pols pulled their masks off at once.

I think the result will be, Hillary not only wrecking her own career but quite a few others finding they spent their credibility on her too. The better to primary them out next time.

[timmymoff]

9. The Hillary supporters just don't get it

they think after the primary everyone falls into lock step. Her supporters almost miscalculate shit as bad as the candidate. The whole freakin system is corrupt to the bone not just the dem party, but they think all will be well if we continue to do the same as always. Haven't seen a bigger misunderstanding of a situation since the IWR. Economy is rigged against most of us, schools rigged against most of our kids, we trade jobs for polluted water. We have a healthcare system designed to bankrupt us. and everyone of her supporters is cool with this shit. I really have little respect for them.

[Joe the Revelator]

10. And pat themselves on the backs because she carries a (D) behing her name....

That 'D', obviously, does not mean what it use to.

[One Black Sheep]

11. Agreed, and this split will eventually lead to much needed reform and a fumigation of all the

corruption that is stinking up the party elite, that is the bright side of what many of us see as a total disaster heading our way in November. The Democratic party may experience a new beginning and reshaping, as a silver lining.

[anotherproletariat]

14. Don't worry too much. I just spent the weekend 'in the real world' and Dems are not divided.

Every single Dem I talked to (and I'm now home for summer in the SF Bay Area, so that is virtually everyone), are all planning on voting for whoever the nominee turns out to be. The biggest thing people are talking about is how to beat Trump.

[Joe the Revelator]

16. Thank you for your super interesting anecdote. nt

[anotherproletariat]

22. I just think it is important for everyone to realize that no matter how worked up they get

online, most people you meet on the street or at school, work or a weekend event are not as bitter as some people seem to be here. I understand it, and am certainly guilty of it myself, but sometimes it is nice to step outside this world and realize that things are better than we might otherwise think.

[Joe the Revelator]

36. All your story proves is that you are friends with people who think like you.

I could make the same comment about voters in VA, I haven't talked to one Hillary supporter, but there must be some out here, just not in my circle of friends and associates.

[Contrary1]

61. Hell, I haven't even run into strangers who support her...

and believe me; I talk a lot. To people in line at the grocery store, at the drug store picking up meds, filling up the gas tank.

Regular everyday folks...not a single one saying they will vote for her.

[timmymoff]

73. I live in a city of around 140,000

people, I have seen exactly three Hillary signs. Three not Three-hundred but three. She lost our county by 5000 votes. Did I mention 3 signs for Hillary?

[Lizzie Poppet]

104. I don't know a single Hillary supporter IRL.

Literally not even one. I live in downtown Portland, so you think I'd know a few...but not one. I know more Trump supporters than Hillary supporters (although thankfully not many). Some of my Bernie-supporting friends plan to vote for her if she's the nominee, but they're a minority. That's partly because we all know there's little danger of Oregon flipping red...but a good many specifically make the observation that even with no Bernie in the picture, Hillary is unacceptable (I'm in this group). Caveat: the circle of friends/acquaintances I'm inclined to talk politics with is not a large one, and tends to be very, very left-of-center. Disdain for Hillary in that crowd would be assumed, really.

[Thirties Child]

106. I'm old and my almost-as-old friends are all for Bernie.

The people I know who are for HRC are late Boomers, people too young to remember what the Democratic Party once was. My late Boomer daughter is for Hillary, and I don't trust her political judgment. With good reason. She voted for Nader because there wasn't any difference between Gore and Bush.

[eastwestdem]

18. Totally true. The only real division seems to be here on DU and outside some of the Hillary

events. Although that seems to be helping to bring people to support Hillary, so that's good.

[Doctor_J]

99. And then there is this

Unless Hillary can stop the independents from voting, this could be a problem. But by all means, blame everything on liberals and Sanders!

[Ferd Berfel]

15. They had to push out the Liberals and Progressives

so the Clintons could make room for the Moderate/centrist republicans they want to bring over to create the Neo-Democrat Party.
THe party of neocons. Using the False Flag of "Democrat". It was easier than starting a new party.

[fun n serious]

21. Personally,

I think the authoritarian zealots ought to have their own party. They truly believe all of us who voted for Hillary are somehow WRONG and they are right. Here is the truth.. MOST people want Hillary to be our nominee and the proof is in the VOTES. Hillary won Nevada.. Shenanigans trying to take delegates and overturn the will of AZ voters is undemocratic.

[Ed Suspicious]

31. The proof is in the votes? Prove it.

How many caucusgoers did you count in your tally of "the votes?"

[GulfCoast66]

50. Impossible to tell

Which makes Bernie supporters touting caucuses and courting super delegates deliciously ironic. When Democratic Party members get to vote for the Democratic Party candidate Hillary wins.

[Armstead]

23. There seems to be two fundamental views of life emerging

Either a split or a realignment...not sure which

[Zorro]

28. So take a hike from DEMOCRATIC Underground and get to work on an alternative party

The sooner the better.

[Joe the Revelator]

30. Oh trust me, I will be, you guys can enjoy your echo chamber and your GE loss

and whatever you've left of the democratic party. But not until the convention. You have no claim on anything until then.

[Zorro]

32. Oh good

I'm looking forward to the time when the defeatist Republican water carriers that have infested this site finally leave and let Democrats focus on the real adversaries in this election cycle.

[Joe the Revelator]

33. Whatever you say super dem.

Good luck winning the real election without the actual base.

[Zorro]

34. The actual base is voting for Clinton

[Joe the Revelator]

35. Not really. However the boots on the ground base is starting to wake up to the fact...

...that current party leadership has cooked the entire process. Again, keep hope alive I guess. The fact that you're going to be so happy to see so many long term members of the democratic underground leave or be forced out (or forced to pretend to support a moderate republican) kind of proves my point.

[Zorro]

37. Keep on insulting the Democratic voting base

Bernie still won't be the party nominee.

[Joe the Revelator]

38. I'll happily insult those who are complacent in moving a great party to the right.

I'll have that fight all day.

[Zorro]

39. So you go right ahead and continue supporting a losing candidate

Democrats and the Democratic party intend to win the Presidency this election cycle.

You can either join the effort or get out of the way.

[Joe the Revelator]

41. If that was there intent, they are REALLY fucking it up.

[Zorro]

42. Oh yeah 3 million more votes is really fucking it up

But you go right ahead promoting the belief that berning down the village is progress.

[Joe the Revelator]

44. As long as your are pretending that kind of winning a primary is = winning the GE

[Zorro]

45. I'd say losing a primary /= winning the GE

I live in the real world.

[Joe the Revelator]

51. I would beg to differ, when the independents who have left the party for going too right, come back

if we had the fortitude to nominate an actual progressive.

[Zorro]

53. Oh yeah, right.

Keep plucking that chicken!

[840high]

47. You're fooling yourself.

[ThePhilosopher04]

64. Why don't you join Free Republic

That's where the Democratic party is headed if Clinton is elected. The rightward march to destruction is sickening. Not my father's Democratic party, that's for damn sure.

[Zorro]

86. Wow. The hyperbole from the Sanders puritans is reaching truly inane levels

"...rightward march to destruction..."? Oh, please....

Sorry, I'm interested in the Democratic nominee winning this election. Supporting Bernie's nomination in the remaining primaries is a losing proposition. Many Democrats have learned the lessons of the past; evidently many BS supporters have not.

[ThePhilosopher04]

87. You know it's true and don't give a shit I'm sure.

[Zorro]

89. It's absolutely true I want the Democratic nominee to win

Not interested in uncompromising purity politics. That's the tea bagger mindset and a recipe for accomplishing nothing positive.

[synergie]

40. Nope. We are watch some fake Dems who apparently follow simple

rules and who seem to have never been Dems. It is what happens when ratfuckery are invited in to disrupt a party. Real Dems do not call Dems republicans, they p,ace actual progress over vague gestures with zero plans fur follow through, they are not tone deaf to the content of their right wing smears of Dems, black voters, minorities and women, nor do they engage in angry violent mobs, while pretending they are ptotesting Democrats. Thus party is not dead, despite the best efforts of outsiders with the clear intent to divide and destroy the party to make way for extremist Republicans while talking points they use.

We have a real progressive party, and Dems, REAL ones are doing everything to make sure a Dem is in the White House, you seem to have other plans fir the 4 years that don't involve governing, wonder why that is.

[blue neen]

43. No, we're not.

Nope.

[Tarc]

49. Lol, no, what we're seeing is the Popular Front of Judea

[slipslidingaway]

52. The Dem party has been pushing out independents and left leaning Dems for years ...

this year the DNC decided to hold the first debate after the NY deadline for independents to register with a party. Even two of Trump's children missed the deadline, imagine the millions of independents who were not paying attention 6 months prior to the primary?

And why the hell does the US have elections that drag on for years that cost hundreds of millions of dollars and leave millions of children going to bed hungry?

There is no reason, there is no excuse except for those who think power trumps the need of a child to feel satiated before going to sleep at night ... and then the next night ....

Not to mention quashing their dreams to obtain higher skills and live a productive and satisfying life.

This is not the path to a successful nation, it is the path to a nation in decline.

[NanceGreggs]

54. Not really.

What we are seeing is a small group of fanatics declaring that "the party has left me", "the party has lost its principles", "the party is corrupt", etc. And they're pretty much the same people who say that every election season.

Most of these people have never voted in their lives - because the candidate is never pure enough, and they'd rather complain that had X been the candidate, things would have been different. But in truth, they never would have voted for X either. They would have found some impurity in X, and used it as an excuse not to vote after all.

[Txbluedog]

57. +1000

This is a group of whiners that never vote and then are upset when politicians (who only care about active voters) don't care about them

They don't realize that in order to make a difference you cannot afford to be complacent

[slipslidingaway]

60. We'll see, do not underestimate the younger generation, they might be complacent, but they are..

not as compliant as you would like them to be, they are not as beholding to a particular party.

Independent voters make up more of the population, but has been mentioned ad nauseam on DU, they are not needed.

[Thirties Child]

107. Nor should they underestimate the older generation

I'm a depression baby, member of the Silent Generation, cast my first vote for Eisenhower in 1956, have voted in every election since, except for 1972, when I chose to sit out - McGovern was too liberal for me, couldn't vote for Nixon.

[slipslidingaway]

110. Oh no, not at all and thanks for the reminder! Some people are tired of voting for the party ...

selected candidate and would like to vote FOR someone, also tired of watching the middle class in our country shrink.

And we'll not even mention the influence of the establishment media

[slipslidingaway]

59. Interesting that you have labeled both my children as fanatics, one is mid 20's and the other 30 ...

and a fairly new MD.

Both of them are for Sanders, they may or may not vote for Clinton, but they are certainly not enthused about her candidacy and that is putting it mildly.

Sorry but you do not get to speak for all people who feel Clinton is not the right candidate, it is rather presumptuous of you to assume that these people have never voted in their lives.

Suppose they feel the candidate is wrong and they do not want to vote for the lesser of two evils as has been the rule for decades, people are not stupid and are not always willing to fall into lockstep as some would like, they have minds of their own.

The party can either adapt to the changing needs or the party can falter and suffer the consequences. Times are changing, if not this election then the next.

Please do not assume that everyone who will not vote for Clinton is some fanatic as you are might be missing and dissing a huge segment of the future voters.

[SpareribSP]

65. Way to write off over 6 million bernie voters as a "small group of fanatics"

Feel free to keep insulting people and feeling smugly superior, though. I'm glad you have it all figured out! I mean, heck, someone had to do it.

[NanceGreggs]

109. The vast majority ...

... of people who have voted for Bernie will vote for the Democrat in November, whether it's Bernie or not.

The small group of fanatics are those that are screaming Bernie or Bust, and who want us to believe that their numbers are legion. They're not.

[Joe the Revelator]

75. You really are kidding yourself if you think that.

[silvershadow]

56. It lies at the feet of DWS and the early and sustained collusion with

the HRC campaign, and HRC's unwillingness to leave the race, with dignity and grace, given her current legal circumstances. The time to do that has long passed. She, without flinching, took us ALL out on that limb with her. To say I am pissed it an understatement. If Bernie isn't the nominee I will have to announce my disapproval publicly and forcefully in order to distance myself and my good name from the Clinton Carnival.

[Txbluedog]

58. Go righ ahead

There is very little chance Bernie is going to be the nominee

[djean111]

76. And there is no chance of party unity if Hillary is the nominee.

Gotta say that you are sounding very familiar, as in no one needs your authoritative permission to go right ahead with anything.

[Norrin Radd]

62. kr

[ThePhilosopher04]

63. I hope it splinters into a million pieces and disappears

entirely. Then, maybe then, a true progressive movement will rise from the ashes. The current Democratic party is beyond repair.

[northernsouthern]

69. I am amazed at how blind our party has been.

I thought possibly both parties would break back during the BS at Iowa and the fake data breach...but from the looks of it the RNC is getting their act together, and we are going to shatter. This is depressing the number of Don Quixotes in this party.

This is the future for our party...

[Betty Karlson]

70. K&R - Debbbie and the other DINOs need to go.

[Recursion]

72. Not really. Sanders has always had a lower depth of support among Democrats than Clinton

The most recent depth of support poll was pretty much what it's been all along: 20% of Democrats say they won't vote for a Sanders candidacy, and 15% of Democrats say they won't vote for a Clinton candidacy. Sanders's numbers are slightly high historically for a Democrat, but nothing terribly unusual.

[Jitter65]

74. You can Thank Bernie for that. The same thing would have happened in 2012 had Bernie gotten his way

with his challenge. He knew then that it would hurt him badly among the POC community so he and his advisors figured that it wouldn't matter so much against Hillary. And guess what? It worked. And the Democratic party will be paying for it for the next decade or so.

[Trust Buster]

77. By all means start your own progressive Party. Sanders and his Independent acolytes will not

dictate terms to the Democratic Party.

[Joe the Revelator]

78. Which is the problem of and with the Democratic Party

Glad we can agree on that.

[workinclasszero]

84. I heartily agree!

The democratic party is not pure enough so all the dem party haters need to break off and be the Green party 2.

They will then have the same fabulous effects on our nation that President Nader has had.

Third parties have always been a big success in american politics, like the Bull Moose party...and...umm...well anyway have fun purists!

[Trust Buster]

85. This country has been successful throughout it's history because the fringes on both sides have

been repeatedly rejected.

[workinclasszero]

88. The fringe has now taken over the thug party..the bagger monster killed Dr Frankenstein LOL

We will see how that plays out.

Looks to me like the democratic party ain't havin it by 3 million people or so, thank God.

[yourpaljoey]

79. Correct. I come across many who are eager to embrace a new party.

Both Independents and Democrats and moderate Republicans are sick of both parties.
The Dem Party in my city has been utterly infiltrated with right-wing shills.



Perhaps you and I should start the Kegger Party!

[MaeScott]

80. New party? Absolutely it's time These dollies are broken.

[leeroysphitz]

81. Wasserman Schultz is an asshole and needs to go. n/t

[randr]

82. The bigger problem for Democrats

is not whether or not new young voters will stand with the candidate that ultimately wins, but the masses of both older and younger voters attracted to Trumps rhetoric.

[Time for change]

90. Yes indeed

And I would like to add my thanks for the purging of hundreds of thousands of undesirable Democratic voters in these primaries, which has made the results of the race so much clearer.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

91. I know it will be sexist and all, but 2020 should be interesting for a change

[Go Vols]

95. "So we are watching the democratic party split from within..."

I think that train may have left the station.

In the late 1970s, as large corporations turned into transnational giants, they pumped huge amounts of cash into the political system. This largesse lured, first, the Republican Party, in the 80s, followed by the Democratic Party in the ‘90s, and precipitated a rightward political shift as both parties rewrote their policies to compete for the same corporate contributions.

Before this, from 1932-1976, the Democratic Party as a whole was far more progressive. The issues and approaches advocated today by Bernie Sanders were considered mainstream Democratic ideas by Franklin D. Roosevelt, John F. Kennedy, and Lyndon Johnson, and even many moderate Republicans. It was common to support strict financial regulation, liberal immigration, social services for the poor, and progressive tax policies.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tony-brasunas/there-is-a-moderate-republican-in-this-race_b_9704194.html

[NorthCarolina]

96. The level of corruption in the party is now so great

that I do not believe the party is even salvageable at this point. Face it, we have two party's supporting the 1% and they make, or break as needed, all the rules. It seems that a new party of the people will become the only way out...if that's even possible when the elites control everything, including who is allowed on the ballot.

[Doctor_J]

97. The Hillarians and other conservatives seem positively giddy about ridding themselves of liberals

I actually wonder how they'll like living in Bush/Clinton/Ryan America, with no commons, privatized/profitized everything, dark money elections on steroids, and no end in sight to the wars and associated Pentagon spending.

[Demsrule86]

100. Judging from the primaries

It is not the Dems that are splitting within, but a small vocal minority...which combines some Democrats (few) and independents (so called). Thus, the party is just fine and will be just fine...you all have way to much self-importance. If you were so huuuuge...you would have won the primary.

[JCMach1]

108. No, just a lot of hot air, signifying nothing between Hillshills and Bernbots...