The Reason Why Dozens of Lobbyists Will Be Democratic Presidential Delegates

[eridani]

There is a rational argument to be made for having officeholders involved (not that I agree with it), but LOBBYISTS!!?!?!

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/reason-dozens-lobbyists-democratic-presidential-delegates/story?id=37289507

But this group, which consists of 21 governors, 40 senators and 193 representatives, only makes up about a third of the superdelegates. Many of the remaining 463 convention delegates are establishment insiders who get their status after years of donations and service to the party. Dozens of the 437 delegates in the DNC member category are registered federal and state lobbyists, according to an ABC News analysis.

In fact, when you remove elected officials from the superdelegate pool, at least one in seven of the rest are former or current lobbyists registered on the federal and state level, according to lobbying disclosure records.

That’s at least 67 lobbyists who will attend the convention as superdelegates. A majority of them have already committed to supporting Hillary Clinton for the nomination.

[ThePhilosopher04]

1. Corruption of the highest order.

[dmosh42]

2. Is this 'rigging'?

[cherokeeprogressive]

67. Something naive people think is only found on sailing ships.

[MrMickeysMom]

87. FYI...

This should be no surprise...

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[Recursion]

3. The Human Rights Campaign is a lobby. So is Greenpeace

So is the Brady Campaign.

Or, sorry, was I supposed to just see the word "lobbyist" in bold and infer that these people are evil?

[A Little Weird]

4. Does it matter if they're evil?

Frankly, I don't care whether they are lobbyists for Greenpeace or Goldman-Sachs, their vote shouldn't count more than mine.

But here are some other superdelegates. They may still not be evil but they certainly do have an agenda. Helps explain why universal health care will "never, ever happen".

Superdelegates Jill Alper, Minyon Moore, and Maria Cardona are officials at Dewey Square Group, a lobbying firm that is closely affiliated with the Clinton campaign and retained by the Clinton-supporting Super PACs Priorities USA Action and Correct the Record. Alper and Moore are Clinton advisers who have raised over $100,000 for her campaign. Dewey Square Group, as we’ve reported, was retained by the health insurance industry to undermine health reform efforts in 2009, including proposals to change Medicare Advantage. The firm has previously worked to influence policy on behalf of Enron, Countrywide, Citigroup, Coca-Cola, the U.S. Telecom Association and News Corporation.

Emily Giske, also a lobbyist in New York City, is registered to work on behalf of Airbnb, Yum Brands (the parent company of Taco Bell), Pfizer, and the Securities Industry and Financial Markets Association, a trade group for Wall Street firms such as Goldman Sachs, Fidelity, and Bank of America.

Dick Gephardt, a Hillary-supporting superdelegate, is a lobbyist for the government of Taiwan & Peabody Coal.

Tom Daschle, a Hillary-supporting superdelegate, is a lobbyist for the governments of Taiwan & Japan.

Chris Dodd, a Hillary-supporting superdelegate, is the top lobbyist for the MPAA, the movie industry group that backs SOPA, TPP, etc.

https://theintercept.com/2016/02/17/voters-be-damned/

[nc4bo]

5. ^^THIS. nt

[Recursion]

8. Because they do the work that keeps the party going?

Seems pretty obvious to me.

[A Little Weird]

10. They aren't the only ones

But when regular folks volunteer and do the things that keep the party going they don't get extra voting power.

[Recursion]

13. Sure they do, particularly in caucus states

But people who volunteer for their local chapters definitely get extra say in what the party does, because they're the ones actually doing it.

[A Little Weird]

15. Bullshit n/t

[TheKentuckian]

44. Bullshit, I'm active and am always called to help. I get my one vote, no more.

I might be at the convention center or hotel for victory/concession speeches. Might even get to an occasional after party but there is no influence or extra votes that's a fantasy.

This influence is bought and that's that. It is wrong and it is certainly undemocratic.

[Recursion]

45. Do you go to your local & state party meetings? (nt)

[snowy owl]

63. Irrelevant.

[Recursion]

75. Not even close to irrelevant. That's how the party gets built

That's how you elect (or, if you put enough time in, become) a super delegate.

[Recursion]

9. And did you actually bring up Gephardt, Daschle, and Dodd?

You do know who they are, right?

[A Little Weird]

11. Of course I'm aware of who they are

Their votes still shouldn't count more than anyone else's.

One person, one vote. It's not a difficult concept.

[Recursion]

12. Why not? You say that as if it's obvious.

One person, one vote. It's not a difficult concept.

And it makes sense in an election. Are you confusing party primaries with elections?

[A Little Weird]

14. A primary election for the Democratic Party

Should be democratic. If it isn't then maybe they should change their name.

[snowy owl]

65. Recursion will spin . . . he/she makes no sense whatsoever.

[A Little Weird]

66. I noticed

There's another one in this thread too. They're working really hard, I hope it's worth it.

[Peace Patriot]

42. Revolving door government is disgusting enough...

...but that these former office holders are now lobbyists for a coal company, for foreign governments, etc., and then get extra power at our convention is anti-democratic and should be forbidden.

Let them get goddamn honest jobs after they hold office! Lobbyists! Peeuu! And if they don't go straight, then they can make the effort to be chosen as ordinary delegates like everybody else. I wouldn't strip them from the Democratic voting rolls like somebody did to 126,000 Democrats in Brooklyn! They can still be Democrats, despite the wretched government practice of the "revolving door." But they can't be lords and ladies of the convention.

[Armstead]

89. Gephardt is the epitome of the problem

The revolving door -- and shifting to getting big bucks to represent the interests he was supposed to be restraining in Congress, and fighting to stop the things he was supposed to be advancing.


That's the Democratic Party leadership these days.

http://www.thenation.com/article/dick-gephardts-spectacular-sellout/

In March, months after the government gave an unprecedented $85 billion to AIG, the insurance giant released a list of counterparties, exposing some of the world’s top financial institutions as the real recipients of the bailout. First among its peers, Goldman Sachs got a whopping $12.9 billion, despite having claimed in September to be insulated from AIG’s troubles. Based on these revelations, Maryland Democratic Congressman Elijah Cummings, who had dogged the financial industry since the crisis began, told his staff to prepare a letter calling for an investigation.

Two Congressional staffers familiar with the matter told The Nation that a draft was circulated to House members on March 23. Within hours, Cummings’s office had received a phone call from a lobbying firm hired by Goldman Sachs, making an “insistent but polite” request for a meeting. Cummings, intending to send the letter regardless, granted the audience, and so it was that top Goldman executives like president Gary Cohn and CFO David Viniar arrived the next day. They brought someone else too, a big-name Democratic politician with serious populist credibility: Dick Gephardt.

While Gephardt spent most of his twenty-eight years in national Democratic politics quietly promoting and voting with establishment interests, he is best known for his friendship with labor and advocacy for universal healthcare during two presidential runs. In 2003 he harshly condemned corporate crime, which he said “ruined people’s lives for selfishness and greed,” and launched his candidacy claiming, “Every proposal I’m making, every idea I’m advancing has a single, central purpose: to revive a failing economy and give working Americans the help and security they need.” So why, six years later, was he on Capitol Hill representing one of the biggest players in the largest economic crisis since the Great Depression? And further, why was he recently working for Visa to kill credit card reform, helping Peabody Energy stymie climate change legislation and consulting for UnitedHealth Group alongside Tom Daschle to block meaningful healthcare reform?..................

[Eko]

40. So you are not against

lobbyists just superdelegates.

[A Little Weird]

43. I'm against superdelegates in general and especially lobbyists being superdelegates

Let's stay on topic - there are a lot of problems with lobbyists too, but that's not what this thread is about.

Being a lobbyist is a job. Many of them get paid well for it - they shouldn't also be given extra voting power.

If a lobbyist's job is to get politicians of both parties to vote for the agenda of an insurance company, for example, do you think that as a superdelegate his choice won't be influenced by that? Of course it will, he will choose the candidate who is in favor of the positions he is lobbying for. So if a presidential candidate wants the insurance lobbyist/superdelegate's vote, he might say something like "universal healthcare will never, ever happen". Don't you think that's a conflict?? A lobbying firm gets to hugely influence what they want regardless of will of the voters. The lobbyist should certainly have a vote but the influence of his vote shouldn't be amplified above that of the average person.

I'm really kind of shocked to see anyone defending this. Can you explain to me why you think it's ok for lobbyists to be superdelegates??

[Eko]

48. You said it.

"he will choose the candidate who is in favor of the positions he is lobbying for."

[A Little Weird]

49. And you're ok with it

He won't choose based on the will of the people. Not for what's best for the country or even what's best for the party but instead will choose for what's best for his pocketbook. "Democracy" sold to the highest bidder.

[Eko]

50. Naw, thats not what you said.

"he will choose the candidate who is in favor of the positions he is lobbying for. " Not best for his pocketbook, but what the candidates positions are already on. There are lobbyists who represent unions, Sanders is very pro union, those lobbyists would gravitate to him because of his positions. Alphabet Inc is the parent company of Google, they are the top contributor to Sanders, they have 84 lobbyists. Machinists/Aerospace Workers Union is Sanders 3rd biggest contributor, they have 4 lobbyists. I could keep going but I think you get the point. Is Sanders for sale? Is that what you think?

[A Little Weird]

52. The lobbyists are given power that regular people aren't given

So whether the lobbyists represent a noble cause like labor or a not so noble cause like Monsanto, their voice is amplified and it will favor whatever they are paid to represent. Why is this so fucking difficult for you to understand? It doesn't matter what Sanders or Clinton think about it - by giving lobbyists "superdelegate" power, they are given more voice than regular people. It isn't the candidates that put them there but the party leadership.

[Eko]

53. Not true at all.

Lobbyists aren't given power that regular people aren't given, there are regular people who Superdelegates. Why is this so hard to understand? You are just against superdelegates in the first place, it could be ghandi and you would still have the same opinion, you just want to beat up on lobbyists because of that fad now.

[A Little Weird]

56. I'm going to try to use small words

Yes I am against superdelegates. I am even more against paid lobbyists being superdelegates. Regular people, let's call them peons, get to cast a regular vote. Superdelegates are people who get to cast a super vote that can equal that of thousands of peons.

For example, Sanders won New Hampshire by a 22% margin (56,857 more peons voted for him than for her) but they ended up with an equal number of delegates. Looking only at the peon vote, he got 15 delegates and she got 9. But all 6 powerful superdelegates said they didn't give a shit how the peons voted and they were going to support Clinton anyway. So Clinton and Sanders will have 15 delegates each. Does it seem democratic that 6 superdelegates should be able to counterbalance 56,857 peons? I don't think it does.

So this illustrates how superdelegates have more power than peons. Now, "lobbyist" is defined as a person who tries to influence legislation on behalf of a special interest. So a lobbyist is not someone who acts in the public interest or even in the interest of the Democratic party but someone who represents a special interest. So by giving lobbyists superdelegate powers, the party is giving extra power to the special interests that the lobbyist represents.

Now let's look at the definition of "democratic". Democratic is defined as: "pertaining to or characterized by the principle of political or social equality for all".

When power rests with a "privileged class" of superdelegates (some of whom represent special interests), then we do not have democratic process. I understand that this is the primary not the general, but the "Democratic Party" should, in my opinion, behave in a democratic way.

I hope you can understand now. I don't think I can explain it in any simpler terms.

[Eko]

54. So you especially are against lobbyists

being super delegates because they can influence politicians, should someone who actually writes legislation be able to be a super delegate?A judge? God forbid there might even be people who are running for the office of the presidency who are also superdelegates? Should they resign that position, that seems the height of corruption being a superdelegate where you can vote for yourself and your vote counts way more than normal people.

[A Little Weird]

57. Someone running for the office of the presidency should definitely not be a superdelegate

You've got it!

Should someone who writes legislation or a judge be a superdelegate? No, because superdelegates should not exist.

[Recursion]

78. But the candidates are always superdelegates (nt)

[Eko]

55. What if not only one of the people running for the office of the presidency

is a superdelegate but one of their top advisors in that campaign is a superdelegate.

[A Little Weird]

58. Nope

A presidential candidate nor any of their advisors should be superdelegates.

[Eko]

59. So are you going

to call on Sanders to renounce his superdelegate status and to make one of his advisors do the same or fire them?

[A Little Weird]

60. I'm going to call on Sanders to abolish superdelegates

And yes, I think he and any of his advisors that are superdelegates should step down as should anyone associated with the Clinton campaign. Not that it makes any difference what I say, I'm just a peon.

[Eko]

61. Cool.

Im glad we agree that Sanders is using such a anti-democratic means to try to win the election and he shouldn't be. How can we trust someone like that to be president?

[A Little Weird]

64. Really? Are you going to try that tactic?

If you can't trust Sanders to be president because he's working within the corrupt system of the Democratic Party then it stands to reason that you can't trust Clinton either. In fact, I guess that means you can't vote for any democratic presidential candidate until they clean up the system.

[snowy owl]

68. anybody reading eco's responses know what he is. T****.

[A Little Weird]

69. I know

And I know better than to engage with them but sometimes it just bugs me when something completely idiotic is posted and not refuted. But I'm letting it go...for now anyway.

[Eko]

74. Please,

dont let it go. Call me what you really want to. Of course it would be so much nicer for you to answer why you support someone who (according to you) is trying to win so undemocratically. Why you think the means to an end justifies acting so against democracy.

[Eko]

73. No, you dont.

You are welcome to think whatever you want. I really don't freaking care. But to just clear that up, I think we should have Sanders as the president, I think that Clinton would do fine but that Sanders is really what this country needs. I think Clinton is a career politician and her stances shift with the political wind a bit more than I want. Her judgement is really not all that good mainly because she follows the prevailing stance on a lot of issues and she is more mainstream than not because of that. Other than that you can go take a hike. Into the ocean. Maybe grow a spine also and say what you really think.

[Eko]

71. I'm not the one who thinks this about superdelegates

"A primary election for the Democratic Party Should be democratic. If it isn't then maybe they should change their name." that's you buddy, word for word. You are saying that using super delegates is not democratic. Sanders himself and one of his top advisors are super delegates, he is wanting super delegates to win. He needs them. His whole campaign from here on out is relying on ,according to you, an anti-democratic tactic. How can you support him?

[Eko]

72. Oh, I know!!!!

Its a necessary evil for him, but only him, not for anyone else. Do you see the absolute hypocrisy that you are pushing? Oh, I used a big word, see, I'm learning. Here is another one,you are a idealogue, a hypocritical idealogue to be precise. What is an idealogue? Its when someone can totally overlook their side from doing the same thing they are calling out the other side for doing.

[eridani]

16. So HRC and Greenpeace are superdelegates? Since when? n/t

[Recursion]

17. Sure. Have you looked at the list of what these "evil lobbyists" lobby for?

Steven K. Alari represents public employees in California
Stewart Applebaum lobbies for the Retail Wholesale and Department Store Employees Union
Dennis Archer lobbies for public and green transportation
Phil Bartlett both lobbies and litigates for workers injured on the job
Van Beechler lobbies literally for the Human Rights Campaign as well as a ton of other LGBTQ groups

That's just part-way through the "B's" of the list.

[eridani]

18. No lobbyist should EVER be involved in candidate selection, period.

No matter the nature of the cause.

[Recursion]

19. Why on earth not? (nt)

[eridani]

20. Being paid to influence public officials disqualifies them n/t

[Recursion]

21. Why? You keep just saying stuff like that but not actually arguing for it.

These are people who have spent careers building constituencies and influence on issues they care about, like public transit or gun control or LGBTQ rights, and they use those constituencies and that influence to try to make change for the better.

As a side result, they tend to wind up doing a lot of yoeman work in actually running the Democratic party. Why does the fact that they made the change they care about their career disqualify them from being convention delegates?

[eridani]

22. Because the people who vote and/or caucus don't get paid for it. n/t

[Recursion]

23. And?

What's your actual argument here? You've said "they get paid", which I agree with. You seem to expect it to be obvious that that somehow disqualifies them, but I can't see why.

[eridani]

24. It certasinly does not disqualify them as voters. It disqualifies them as potential

--overturners of primary and caucus results--which is why superdelegates were introduced in the first place.

[Recursion]

25. And still no "why"?

Why would that disqualify them as unpledged delegates? You keep just saying that and never argue for it.

[eridani]

27. Why Citizens Unted? n/t

[Recursion]

28. Because a filmmaker should probably be able to release a documentary about a candidate during an

election, rather than having the FEC shut down his screenings (that was the court's reasoning, at least).

What does the right of filmmakers to show their movies have to do with why somebody who's made a career out of working for the public good shouldn't, in your opinion, be a voting member of the DNC?

[eridani]

30. Being a member of the DNC is fine, but being a superdelegate is not n/t

[Recursion]

31. That's the same thing. DNC members are unpledged delegates.

The 438 elected members of the national DNC, which includes each of the state parties' chair and vice-chair, are all given a nomination vote. Do you want DNC members to stop having a nomination vote? Or only the ones who are lobbyists? Are you just saying you want to end the super delegate system?

[eridani]

32. The purpost of superdelegates is to override the popular vote

Bad enough as it is, but paid influencers shouldn't be allowed. After all, the first post-superdelegate nominee was the establishment-approved Mondale, and he got creamed.

[Recursion]

33. Why shouldn't people who are paid to push for political change be allowed?

Again, a dozen replies and you've never actually stated what principle you're making that claim on. Why should Van Beechler of Idaho, who has lobbied for the HRC and several other LGBT groups as part of a lifetime of LGBT advocacy, not be allowed to vote as a DNC member for the Presidential nomination?

[eridani]

34. Being paid is a corrupting factor, always n/t

[Recursion]

35. You're saying she was corrupted by the LGBT advocacy groups she's worked for?

Really?

[eridani]

36. I am saying tht salaried lobbyists should have no more influence than their individual vote n/t

[Recursion]

37. Umm... OK. Any other professions you would exclude?

Or just the one that tends to attract the sort of people who care the most about making government work better for people? I know a lot of very liberal lobbyists. I find this whole thread kind of weird.

[eridani]

38. No one who gets paid to influence the political process, regardless of actual profession. n/t

[Recursion]

39. Weird. OK, though, that's how you feel

Start working with your local party chapter to change your state party's rules, then.

[snowy owl]

62. I think you missed the point.

My vote should be equal to theirs. But it's not. We have a plutocracy.

[Recursion]

77. Why should your vote be equal to theirs? They literally do the work of the party

These are the people who actually make the party run.

[Waiting For Everyman]

6. Like the banks, "fraud as a business model".

We've got institutionalized fraud everywhere we look, but there's nothing to worry about. It's all a nothingburger. It's a lot like that movie, "Alien", with the mama alien and all the lesser ones running around...

And that Dem President honoring Kissinger thing, that didn't indicate anything either. I'm sure the next war we're in will have nothing to do with it... him... them.

Candidates above the law? Not a problem. We Dems have it all under control, so we're told. Pay-to-play in the State Department? I can't hear you. Didn't they used to call that graft in the olden days?

Voting irregularities? That's just an artful smear.

But we're out there "fighting for YOU" every day! So it's all good!!!!!

Yay!

[Sunlei]

7. My neighborhood has a lobbyist, he helped sort through Gov. grants & we got a new road.

I think it was Obama who upgraded 'lobbyists' registration system and named on the visitors list every time they met-up with Gov. officials.

Republicans have Justice Thomas's wife as a Delegate. I guess she 'lobbies' for 'free gov. money' for the 'republican charities' she manages?

[cherokeeprogressive]

70. Here's a perfect example of the dumbing down of America.

Your neighborhood got a new road because of a "lobbyist".

Did someone own the land the road was built on and lose said land through Eminent Domain? Or did a local activist get a road repaved?

[Sunlei]

76. several million dollars of stimulus money, couple years of road projects/plans and 'jobs'.

Two lanes wider existing road, expand storm drainage system, sidewalks, paid all home owners used EDomain .

Expanded into more road upgrades for cross streets, wider with storm drainage, sidewalks, more 'jobs'. Increased home values, more traffic passing through, local businesses increased income, safer walk to school for kids with sidewalks, less 'climate change' flooding with storm drains.

Thanks Obama for stimulus, thanks lobbyist for helping us, you were worth hiring.

[silvershadow]

26. I don't like Corporations intruding into our electoral process by gaining voting rights. nt

[Recursion]

29. Sorry, what "corporations" are you saying will vote in the convention? (nt)

[Eko]

41. You are fighting the good fight,

keep on keeponing.

[B Calm]

79. Ask Hillary.

Dozens of the 437 delegates in the DNC member category are registered federal and state lobbyists, according to an ABC News analysis.

[Recursion]

80. Which "corporations" do they lobby for?

Also what other category of employer troubles you?

[B Calm]

82. Ask Hillary.

[Recursion]

83. So, nothing?

You can't come up with an actual problem, and are just going with "LOBBYISTS BAD"

[B Calm]

84. So, never question her. My guess is Wall Street Banksters.

[Vinca]

46. So it's really the "Democratic" Party.

And it's business as usual. Rich get richer. Poor get screwed.

[B Calm]

47. Hillary = Unbridled Predatory Capitalism

[apcalc]

51. Ridiculous

[B Calm]

81. Just mentioning the words predatory capitalism get Hillary supporters panties

in a wad.

[apcalc]

85. That is a sexist reply.

[B Calm]

86. It is? Wow, my panties get in a wad and never in my wildest dreams did I ever think of sex.

[Octafish]

88. Best Democracy Money Can Buy

The individuals and organizations they represent hired the DJ, so they get to determine the playlist.

Thank you for an outstanding OP and thread, eridani.