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brooklynite

(94,688 posts)
Mon May 9, 2016, 04:41 PM May 2016

Michael Moore: I値l support Hillary Clinton if she痴 the nominee

Politico:

Michael Moore is an avowed Bernie Sanders supporter and has been for years. But while the outspoken filmmaker and liberal activist says he’s with Sanders till the end, he quickly notes he’ll support former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton if she’s the nominee.

“Oh absolutely. She’s better than the alternative and she will do some good," Moore said in an interview on Sunday. "Unfortunately I can’t support her during the primaries because she voted for the Iraq war and she’s not really going to fix corporate America and Wall Street. They’ll still be calling the shots in her White House so that makes it difficult for people who care about those issues."

Moore said he's been a Sanders supporter for decades, having campaigned for him while Sanders was running for Congress in Vermont. Clinton’s enthusiasm gap problem, he said, is reflective of how he feels about her: She’s better than the alternative.
114 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Michael Moore: I値l support Hillary Clinton if she痴 the nominee (Original Post) brooklynite May 2016 OP
He is both a patriot and not a moron. So of course he does. Jackie Wilson Said May 2016 #1
AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service Orrex May 2016 #12
+1 for Yes :) LeftRant May 2016 #52
Can't believe someone alerted on you. whow. riversedge May 2016 #102
Sellout. onehandle May 2016 #2
Watch out for that bus, Michael! nt Lisa0825 May 2016 #3
+ 1 JoePhilly May 2016 #5
+2 politicaljunkie41910 May 2016 #34
Good deal! Buzz Clik May 2016 #4
He's a smart man so he of course understands the necessity of this. drm604 May 2016 #6
If only some of the people here did... brooklynite May 2016 #11
I think the # of Bernie supporters here who won't vote for Hillary in November is vastly overestimated thesquanderer May 2016 #23
Oh I'd say I agree far more fully and completely with Mike than you do. Bluenorthwest May 2016 #26
Many Bernie supporters will vote for Clinton...and then take a long shower Armstead May 2016 #32
Then take a shower and be glad you can still afford the water WatchWhatISay May 2016 #37
Let's hope Hillary doesn't mdbl May 2016 #61
"The lessor of two evils... yallerdawg May 2016 #7
This wholesale paradigm shift rightward means... GoldenThunder May 2016 #62
I'm with you nt silvershadow May 2016 #63
My gawd, if they stuff another person under that damn bus the wheels will be three feet off the MADem May 2016 #8
Funnily enough, I've yet to see an actual Bernie supporter call Moore or anyone else a traitor nxylas May 2016 #57
You should check the comments by BS supporters at the link. There's shade thrown. MADem May 2016 #58
Well, the biggest problem with that FlaGranny May 2016 #64
Well, I am simply responding to the assertion that there was no push back. MADem May 2016 #65
Yes, I know you were. FlaGranny May 2016 #67
Message auto-removed Name removed May 2016 #80
Traitor! zappaman May 2016 #9
Under the Bernie Bus with you Michael Moore!! Jitter65 May 2016 #10
That is his right SusanLarson May 2016 #13
Another de facto vote for Trump! as is your right. Hekate May 2016 #14
Yes, it is her right. mac56 May 2016 #15
B I N G O tomm2thumbs May 2016 #59
That's your right, but I don't see why'd you do it with what's at stake. Chicago1980 May 2016 #44
I can not and will not say Hillary is "evil" robbob May 2016 #49
President Obama I'm guessing has blood on his hands because of the decisions he's made. Chicago1980 May 2016 #54
Yes he does. robbob May 2016 #77
So do you agree with all of his message, or just the unity bit? whatchamacallit May 2016 #16
Well, I do chuckle.... Adrahil May 2016 #20
Chuckle away, chuckleboy whatchamacallit May 2016 #22
Re: Pot Jokes. So far, your candidate has lost three of the four States where pot is legal Bluenorthwest May 2016 #28
You mean where recreation pot is legal. Chicago1980 May 2016 #45
People should always vote for the candidate they prefer. Tierra_y_Libertad May 2016 #17
I vote for what the person stands for, not because they are the lesser of two evils. Ikonoklast May 2016 #30
Exactly. Tierra_y_Libertad May 2016 #31
White hairs? GulfCoast66 May 2016 #51
Where in heaven's name FlaGranny May 2016 #66
I do not disagree GulfCoast66 May 2016 #70
I'm probably older than you. But thanks for the insults. Ikonoklast May 2016 #71
No Clinton lover here GulfCoast66 May 2016 #82
OMG!!! chervilant May 2016 #90
Perhaps GulfCoast66 May 2016 #93
Glad he's got the common sense not to default to letting Trump win Dem2 May 2016 #18
Hillary is neither a liberal nor a progressive. Fawke Em May 2016 #21
I agree with everything you said farleftlib May 2016 #39
Not in your eyes perhaps, Chicago1980 May 2016 #46
And Anthony Kennedy is the 5th most progressive justice on the SCOTUS elljay May 2016 #74
Wow... fifth out of nine. Chicago1980 May 2016 #78
Aren't statistics fun? elljay May 2016 #81
There were a lot more democratic senators, Chicago1980 May 2016 #85
You are missing the point elljay May 2016 #91
Because she's a progressive! ybbor May 2016 #113
Bernie doesn't define either term. He's the farthest to the left in the Senate -- pnwmom May 2016 #50
Good for him. He's an adult and can make up his own mind. Fawke Em May 2016 #19
Yep. I like Mr. Moore. Juicy_Bellows May 2016 #29
Yeah, go for it Michael MissDeeds May 2016 #36
He is voting in a swing state, MI ybbor May 2016 #114
Personally, I'm so weak-minded that I let Michael sway me RufusTFirefly May 2016 #69
Post away. Still not going to vote for her. For any thing EVER! SammyWinstonJack May 2016 #86
Lesser of two evils is the best campaign motto for HRC. aikoaiko May 2016 #24
For progressives, that's exactly what it will be. apnu May 2016 #73
agreed. nt G_j May 2016 #25
guess he needs material for a new movie? azurnoir May 2016 #27
Lol, most clinton votes will be against the GOP, not for hill! Classic. Nt Logical May 2016 #33
Isn't That Usually The Case? TomCADem May 2016 #35
Here comes the bus!!! ronnykmarshall May 2016 #38
I still love Mike farleftlib May 2016 #40
Moral Problem with Hillary McKim May 2016 #41
Keep living in your dream world shenmue May 2016 #55
I'm a Bernie Supporter Jeb Bartlet May 2016 #42
+1 n/t pnwmom May 2016 #48
And +1 more. maddiemom May 2016 #68
+1 but also wanted to remind you, Election day is Nov. 8. apnu May 2016 #72
Jeb Bartlet, I've read hundreds of posts by Bernie supporters who say they will never Gary 50 May 2016 #89
She痴 better than the alternative. Flatpicker May 2016 #43
Capitalism a love story part II. RATM435 May 2016 #47
Well hell yes! Hulk May 2016 #53
This does not read like a ringing endorsement. Ash_F May 2016 #56
it's akin to supporting maggots tomm2thumbs May 2016 #60
Your insulting maggots. Katashi_itto May 2016 #111
I don't think it's intended as a "ringing endorsement". Nye Bevan May 2016 #87
Now I guess Moore is about to go under the bus... Blue_Tires May 2016 #75
Good deal, MM knows alowing a republican to be elected is not good for progressives. Thinkingabout May 2016 #76
I have much respect for Michael Moore but he isn't going to affect whether I vote for Hillary or Akicita May 2016 #79
One positive thought The Green Manalishi May 2016 #83
Nice thought but there is no way Hillary's bankers will allow that. Akicita May 2016 #84
Not exactly a ringing endorsement.....and I feel the same way he does. marmar May 2016 #88
I live in a state chervilant May 2016 #92
So will I if she is the nominee. penndragon69 May 2016 #94
Hah. Michael Moore Openly says she won't fix anything, posted as GOOD news by Hillary supporter. Joob May 2016 #95
Maybe But She Will Keep videohead5 May 2016 #96
I agree with him democrattotheend May 2016 #97
Thank you Michael Moore for being ths smartest Bernie backer. SleeplessinSoCal May 2016 #98
Maybe the dumb guy learned his lesson after working so hard to put Bush in the White House. NNadir May 2016 #99
Of Course! 132nd Last Angry Man May 2016 #100
Of course you will Micheal. thank you. riversedge May 2016 #101
I think Moore remembers what happened in the 2000 election annavictorious May 2016 #103
Each can do what we they want PowerToThePeople May 2016 #104
I'll take it!! Feathery Scout May 2016 #105
Of course. So will I. But I won't like it. nt SusanCalvin May 2016 #106
Do you all bring your own buses to these threads? How many Hillary supporters think wholly for cherokeeprogressive May 2016 #107
This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel May 2016 #108
If he supports Hillary, then he's for "Moore of the Same" KansDem May 2016 #109
Bad Pun Hairy Harry Potlover May 2016 #112
proud Californian who just voted for Hillary Clinton, and Kamala Harris c588415 May 2016 #110

Orrex

(63,220 posts)
12. AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service
Tue May 10, 2016, 02:17 PM
May 2016

Last edited Tue May 10, 2016, 02:59 PM - Edit history (1)

It was a close one...[hr]On Tue May 10, 2016, 01:15 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

He is both a patriot and not a moron. So of course he does.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1929482

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

This is over the top. The poster paints anyone who for whatever reason cannot ethically support hillary clinton if she gets the nomination as morons.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Tue May 10, 2016, 01:27 PM, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: In comparison to countless other posts that have been allowed to stand, there is nothing wrong with this one.

Leave it.



Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I'm pretty sure the ToS says we need to support the nominee, or at the least, can't speak against them. I'm don't think I'm going to hide a post insulting such people in such a round-about way.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: get a grip.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Many Hillary supporters on DU are VERY RUDE; however, I don't believe in censoring them. Let them show who they really are...
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Bogus Alert. Get over it.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

thesquanderer

(11,990 posts)
23. I think the # of Bernie supporters here who won't vote for Hillary in November is vastly overestimated
Tue May 10, 2016, 02:41 PM
May 2016

especially among those in swing states.

There may be a vocal handful of never-Hillarys, but realistically, there are probably very very few who would actually want to risk Trump beating Hillary. Maybe some independents, but almost no Dems.

So no, people aren't going to be throwing Moore under the bus over this common sense answer, despite all the comments in this thread to the contrary.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
26. Oh I'd say I agree far more fully and completely with Mike than you do.
Tue May 10, 2016, 03:24 PM
May 2016

That would go for most Bernie supporters. In fact I'm surprised you posted his very on point commentary. Mike nails it.

WatchWhatISay

(3,426 posts)
37. Then take a shower and be glad you can still afford the water
Tue May 10, 2016, 05:57 PM
May 2016

Trump would probably further privatize water so many wouldnt be able to afford it, or it wouldnt be safe to shower in. You know: free market capitalism = GOD

He isn't talking policy specifics because he knows many of his supporters would run screaming if they knew what he has in mind.

yallerdawg

(16,104 posts)
7. "The lessor of two evils...
Mon May 9, 2016, 04:48 PM
May 2016

is less evil."

Progressives take what they can get. And then they have a new place to start from. Obama!

GoldenThunder

(300 posts)
62. This wholesale paradigm shift rightward means...
Wed May 11, 2016, 06:11 AM
May 2016

...soon our "lesser of two evils" choice will be between Fascist A and Fascist B.

The road to hell has been paved. The ribbon-cutting ceremony is underway. The Neo-Cons and Neo-Libs each have their hands on that giant pair of scissors.

The hour groweth late.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
8. My gawd, if they stuff another person under that damn bus the wheels will be three feet off the
Mon May 9, 2016, 04:54 PM
May 2016

ground!!!


nxylas

(6,440 posts)
57. Funnily enough, I've yet to see an actual Bernie supporter call Moore or anyone else a traitor
Wed May 11, 2016, 03:50 AM
May 2016

But royalists are always assuring us that this is what will happen, so it must be true.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
58. You should check the comments by BS supporters at the link. There's shade thrown.
Wed May 11, 2016, 04:03 AM
May 2016

Samples:

Oh God... and you can't see that Clinton IS the vitriol? Clinton is not a liberal, she's not a progressive. Her ideology is moderate Republican, at best. I have to say that I'm shocked at Moore who must have been given a dose of thorazine prior to this interview. Putting the possibility aside, I won't ever think of Mr Moore in the same way, again. Any thinking, rational, literate person has Hillary's number. You may endorse Hillary, Mr Moore, I will never endorse this murdering, Republican thief.


That's why only our Millenials, Progressive Democrats and Independents can make this Revolution. People like Michael Moore are wealthy liberals content with just continuing to make his movies calling out the absurdities. Caving in to the fear tactic as planned.. Let's do this thing! #ParentsForMillennials #ForThePeople #BernieOrBust


Traitor.



FlaGranny

(8,361 posts)
64. Well, the biggest problem with that
Wed May 11, 2016, 10:10 AM
May 2016

post is that Michael Moore did NOT endorse Clinton. He endorsed Sanders. Then he said if Sanders does not get the nomination he would vote for Hillary because she is better than Trump. Big difference there. And actually, I completely agree with Moore, and I won't feel good if I have to vote for her, but in voting for her I would not be endorsing her. I would be voting for the better of the two remaining candidates. That poster's reading comprehension leaves a bit to be desired.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
65. Well, I am simply responding to the assertion that there was no push back.
Wed May 11, 2016, 10:21 AM
May 2016

MM 'was' thrown under the bus by some angry Sanders supporters, as the quotes illustrate.

Response to MADem (Reply #58)

 

SusanLarson

(284 posts)
13. That is his right
Tue May 10, 2016, 02:26 PM
May 2016

Just as it is my right is to write in Bernie Sanders, or to stay home. As long as we continue to accept lesser of two evils candidates the system will never ever have any hope of changing for the better.

mac56

(17,574 posts)
15. Yes, it is her right.
Tue May 10, 2016, 02:33 PM
May 2016

Just as it is my right to say that a Hillary nomination hand-delivers the Presidency to Drumpf wrapped up with a big beautiful bow.

Chicago1980

(1,968 posts)
44. That's your right, but I don't see why'd you do it with what's at stake.
Tue May 10, 2016, 09:43 PM
May 2016

Throwing a tantrum based on ideological purity isn't the best use of a vote is it?

Do you think that Bernie Sanders is going to write in Bernie Sanders name? NO...

Hillary isn't a lesser of two evils, she's not evil at all, just because you may not agree with everything she says or does.

Writing in a name of someone who'd never win with write ins or now voting at all isn't changing anything for the better at all.

robbob

(3,537 posts)
49. I can not and will not say Hillary is "evil"
Wed May 11, 2016, 12:36 AM
May 2016

I can't look into her eyes and gauge the nature of her soul. But I will say this: I think she has a lot of blood on her hands.

<on edit> it occurred to me worth mentioning that the expression "lesser of two evils" does not (usually) mean making a choice between two things which are literally "evil" in the theological or moral sense of the word. Rather, it means having to choose between two unappealing options.

Chicago1980

(1,968 posts)
54. President Obama I'm guessing has blood on his hands because of the decisions he's made.
Wed May 11, 2016, 02:00 AM
May 2016

Most people in positions of political power have had to make life or death decisions,

including Bernie. He's kind of okay with drones right?

Making a statement as you did is a bit off the mark as well.

robbob

(3,537 posts)
77. Yes he does.
Wed May 11, 2016, 06:04 PM
May 2016

I respect and admire many things President Obama has done, especially the way he has conducted himself in the face of unrelenting obstructionism and overt racism from his Republican opposition. Social issues, DADT, same sex marriage, the opening of relations with Iran, there are many many policies and achievements that have transpired under this historic presidency, achievements that will not be easily undone even if the GOP manages to ever win back the office. And compared to what was in place before he got in...

But on many foreign policy issues, particularly the use of unmanned drones to carry out summary executions in middle east countries he does have blood on his hands.

https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/2015/02/02/almost-2500-killed-covert-us-drone-strikes-obama-inauguration/

Sorry, I don't know much about thebureauinvestigates.com so I apologize in advance if someone jumps in and denounces it as a right wing front (cursory investigation on wikipedia seems to validate it), but it is an undeniable fact that the USA under Obama has killed thousands, many innocent of anything but being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I would suggest this is one of the most under-reported stories of the Obama presidency, not even worth much of a mention in the MSM, the unrelenting bomb strikes in countries that have vigorously protested these actions. Actions which I'm sure will continue or intensify under the next presidency, the new way America wages war in the world, totally illegal and unsanctioned, killing by proxy with the push of a button.

If you think I am exaggerating, just consider for one minute the reaction if a foreign power were to launch a drone strike against a target in the USA. Even if that target were someone that foreign power considered a terrorist whom it believed was formulating plots against them from the safety of the US borders. I think such an action would be considered justification for all out war against that country. Yet this is something that is tolerated and ignored in this society.

Noam Chomsky has written that, by the standards set at the Nuremberg trials, every president since then has been guilty of war crimes. Whether you agree with that statement or not, the fact is that the USA conducts itself on the global stage with impunity and disregard for the suffering and loss of lives that its policies cause.

Wouldn't it a nice change to see a government that tries to wage peace instead of war? That will not have its practices and policies viewed as "war crimes" by future generations? But who would get rich off of that?

 

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)
20. Well, I do chuckle....
Tue May 10, 2016, 02:39 PM
May 2016

...at his suggestion that Bernie would fix corporate America and Wall Street.

Stop smoking the doobie, Michael....

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
28. Re: Pot Jokes. So far, your candidate has lost three of the four States where pot is legal
Tue May 10, 2016, 03:27 PM
May 2016

The forth is currently voting and the likely fifth is CA, very large and looming primary wise. As a Bernie supporter I encourage you to make many more of that sort of wise crack, especially on CA specific discussion boards. Thanks.

Ikonoklast

(23,973 posts)
30. I vote for what the person stands for, not because they are the lesser of two evils.
Tue May 10, 2016, 03:33 PM
May 2016

Voting in hope of a smaller disaster is still voting for disaster.


The current leadership Democratic Party is coming very close to finding out just how badly selling their souls to moneyed interests is gong to cost them in the following elections with the next generation of voters.

The white hairs of both parties membership who vote straight ticket are a dying breed in more ways than one.



GulfCoast66

(11,949 posts)
51. White hairs?
Wed May 11, 2016, 12:54 AM
May 2016

Seems like yesterday I thought I knew everything. But I was never arrogant enough to so denigrate people with actual life experience.

When an election means more to you than getting free shit you will understand. Sometimes elections mean things like basic human rights. And if you think Hillary and Trump are the same in this regard, you are full of shit. When you have your first colonoscopy, please think of this post.

FlaGranny

(8,361 posts)
66. Where in heaven's name
Wed May 11, 2016, 10:24 AM
May 2016

did you ever get the "free stuff" idea? Little in life is free. We're talking social services here and they are paid for with taxes. In this case that would be a redistribution of tax money, a lot less to the military, and fixing tax laws to keep people who can afford tax lawyers from avoiding paying anything (or very little). In the end everyone pays and nothing is free. We're the only "first world" country that can't get our act together and do it.

P.S. I've had white hair for some time now.

GulfCoast66

(11,949 posts)
70. I do not disagree
Wed May 11, 2016, 01:50 PM
May 2016

My entire post was aimed at the grey hair comment which is unseemly and something I had not seen at DU.

I actually support higher taxes on the rich and the middle class, and expanded social safety system such as found in Europe, Improved education and strengthening of labor rights.

Unfortunately I believe that if we run on that platform today we will lose. Too many Bernie supporters become enraged when they hear that and start attacking the holders of that opinion.

Ikonoklast

(23,973 posts)
71. I'm probably older than you. But thanks for the insults.
Wed May 11, 2016, 04:12 PM
May 2016

I fell for Clinton bullshit twice, and was thrown under the bus by them.

YIf you think Hillary gives a flip about anything but staying on the 1% gravy train, think again.

GulfCoast66

(11,949 posts)
82. No Clinton lover here
Wed May 11, 2016, 08:34 PM
May 2016

Last edited Thu May 12, 2016, 01:44 PM - Edit history (1)

But there is so much more at stake than an economic recalibration I would love to see. If we lose the presidency then what you are seeing in North Carolina moves to a national scale. We will have a President doing what Govenor McCrory is doing now with the full power of the Federal Government behind him.

I cannot fathom that so many supposed Democrats are willing to throw so many of our fellow citizens under the bus if their candidate does not win.

But most of Bernies supports are white, live and die for his economic positions and while I do not think them biased, they do not prioritize the issues facing minority or marginalized groups as serious.

chervilant

(8,267 posts)
90. OMG!!!
Thu May 12, 2016, 01:34 PM
May 2016
But since most Bernie rallies tend to have similar demographics as Trump rallies I guess it is not all surprising. History tells us that the progressive movement has not always marched in step with the civil rights movement.
?!?

I cannot even fathom from whence you pulled those indefensible, disingenuous assertions!

(I sure am thankful for my IL.)

GulfCoast66

(11,949 posts)
93. Perhaps
Thu May 12, 2016, 01:48 PM
May 2016

I that was a little over the top. Thanks for making me re-read it. I have edited it to better reflect what I was getting at. I do not except you will agree, but hopefully now it is not so rude.

Dem2

(8,168 posts)
18. Glad he's got the common sense not to default to letting Trump win
Tue May 10, 2016, 02:37 PM
May 2016

Anybody who is promoting not voting is neither a Democrat, nor a liberal nor a progressive.

Given a choice to save 100 puppies, 75 puppies or let them all be euthanized, I will take 75 live animals over none.

The parallel in this election is human lives. Not voting is giving Trump permission to let people die. It's that simple.




Fawke Em

(11,366 posts)
21. Hillary is neither a liberal nor a progressive.
Tue May 10, 2016, 02:40 PM
May 2016

YOU nominated her with the help from the thumb-scaling DNC. If she loses, that's on YOU, not Bernie supporters who have been warning you for months that she's toxic.

Turn that blame mirror back on yourself.

BTW, I think Hillary will cause a lot of people to die, too. She'll have us in so many wars your head will spin. Or is it that only American lives matter?

 

farleftlib

(2,125 posts)
39. I agree with everything you said
Tue May 10, 2016, 06:22 PM
May 2016

but particularly with the Clinton body count. Even Trump isn't pushing regime change in
all the oil-rich countries. Hillary's foreign policy will be very hawkish as we have seen. She
will not rest until the entire Middle East is blown to smithereens. And you can't expect no
push back when you've been sabre rattling all this time.

Chicago1980

(1,968 posts)
46. Not in your eyes perhaps,
Tue May 10, 2016, 09:48 PM
May 2016

but she and Bernie voted the same about 93% of the time when they were in the senate together.

She was the 7th most liberal of the democratic senators during her tenure.

She may not live up to your ideals and definition of a progressive or liberal, but you don't have carte blanche on the definitions of those words.

She'll cause a lot of people to die? What the hell kind of statement is that. Take an enema for the hyperbole please.

elljay

(1,178 posts)
74. And Anthony Kennedy is the 5th most progressive justice on the SCOTUS
Wed May 11, 2016, 04:32 PM
May 2016

Your talking point stats are meaningless. Just because they mostly voted the same on the very limited set of bills that reached the floor of the fairly conservative Senate doesn't reflect their real politics. Just because the Republican and Democratic Parties veered so far to the right that Hillary is the 11th most liberal doesn't make her a true liberal. Hillary has basically the same politics as the Nixon, Javits, Weicker wing of the 60s Republican Party. Bernie is a progressive. For the life of me, I don't get why Hillary supporters are so unwilling to admit that they support a conservative Democrat. Own what you believe in, don't try to convince the rest of us that ted is really blue.

Chicago1980

(1,968 posts)
85. There were a lot more democratic senators,
Thu May 12, 2016, 03:56 AM
May 2016

Last edited Thu May 12, 2016, 02:53 PM - Edit history (1)

so my numbers work better for me when it comes to my statement.

elljay

(1,178 posts)
91. You are missing the point
Thu May 12, 2016, 01:34 PM
May 2016

When you are making a comparison, it is important to consider to whom you are comparing. Not all Democrats are liberal, and this was especially true when Clinton was in the Senate. The number you quote compared her to conservative Democratic senators Zell Miller, Ben Nelson, John Breaux, Robert Byrd, Max Cleland, Kent Conrad, Byron Dorgan, Edward Bayh, Blanche Lincoln, Joe Lieberman, Mary Landrieu and Max Baucus in the 107th Senate. The Senate was split 50-50 at the beginning of the 107th, so when you consider the conservative Dems as well as the Republicans, Hillary's being the "11th most liberal" is every bit as compelling as Kennedy being the 5th most liberal justice. It doesn't at all make her a liberal on the spectrum of conservative to liberal, just more liberal than a conservative Senate. Why can't you accept that you support a moderate/conservative candidate instead of trying to make her into something that she factually is not?

ybbor

(1,555 posts)
113. Because she's a progressive!
Mon May 16, 2016, 08:31 AM
May 2016

Come on, if you say enough it eventually becomes reality.

She's a progressive, she's a progressive...

Sorry, didn't work. She a pro-Wall Street, hawk, right-of-center moderate. She has admitted to being a moderate, not progressive.

pnwmom

(108,990 posts)
50. Bernie doesn't define either term. He's the farthest to the left in the Senate --
Wed May 11, 2016, 12:38 AM
May 2016

and there are many other liberals and progressives and Hillary is more progressive than many of them.

Fawke Em

(11,366 posts)
19. Good for him. He's an adult and can make up his own mind.
Tue May 10, 2016, 02:37 PM
May 2016

I'm an adult and can make up my own mind.

I laugh when people post these things as though its going to change anyone's mind. LOL.

Juicy_Bellows

(2,427 posts)
29. Yep. I like Mr. Moore.
Tue May 10, 2016, 03:30 PM
May 2016

I think his Fahrenheit 911 movie was all sorts of kid gloves though.

If he wants to vote for her, go right on ahead - doesn't change my convictions at all.

 

MissDeeds

(7,499 posts)
36. Yeah, go for it Michael
Tue May 10, 2016, 04:59 PM
May 2016

Your vote means nothing to me. Freaking sell out... It only makes me think less of you.

ybbor

(1,555 posts)
114. He is voting in a swing state, MI
Mon May 16, 2016, 08:39 AM
May 2016

It could matter, but as a fellow Michigander, I see the state going for Trump.

More Repubs voted in the primary than Dems, and most independents who voted for Bernie will most likely sit out or vote Trump. The Clintons are not very loved in this state.

Just my opinion, and reading of my friends in a very liberal town.

RufusTFirefly

(8,812 posts)
69. Personally, I'm so weak-minded that I let Michael sway me
Wed May 11, 2016, 12:29 PM
May 2016

I make my decision by polling all my favorite pundits and celebrities and then going with the candidate that the majority chooses.

Deciding on actual policy positions is just too boring and hard!

Sure, I can keep track of all the latest stats from my favorite sports teams. But this democracy stuff? No way!

TomCADem

(17,390 posts)
35. Isn't That Usually The Case?
Tue May 10, 2016, 04:34 PM
May 2016

Most votes for Romney were votes against President Obama in 2012.

Put another, if Bernie were the nominee, aren't votes for Trump votes against Bernie?

 

farleftlib

(2,125 posts)
40. I still love Mike
Tue May 10, 2016, 06:25 PM
May 2016

If it makes him feel better to support HRC then I'm happy for him, I just happen to disagree.

Love ya, Mike!

McKim

(2,412 posts)
41. Moral Problem with Hillary
Tue May 10, 2016, 07:57 PM
May 2016

I will stay in the Sanders camp until the very end. I have a responsibility to my brother in law who died in Vietnam for a lie. For his sake and in his name I have been active in the anti war movement for the past 14 years. Hillary will start more wars, she voted for the Iraq War and it was on her watch and her idea to destabilize Syria and Libya. I know the horrors of war and I just can't give the reigns to our country. Whatever may happen, no blood on my hands.

Jeb Bartlet

(141 posts)
42. I'm a Bernie Supporter
Tue May 10, 2016, 08:17 PM
May 2016

I prefer his positions on nearly every issue, but on Nov 2nd I will pull the lever for whichever Democrat is on the ballot for the simple reason that any Democrat is better than any Republican hands down.

I find it absurd that people will call themselves Democrats and Bernie supporters and then will then say they are going to vote against Clinton if she is the nominee. It boggles the mind that Bernie supporting Democrats would actually be ignoring the very message that Bernie has been trumpeting for years, namely that we need more Democrats in office if we are to ever get any of these ideas through congress. I've never once heard Bernie say if he doesn't get his way he's quitting or voting for the opposition. Bernie has been a staunch supporter of progressive ideals for decades and bailing on the Democratic party because the right wing has you riled up over some fucking emails is inane.

This is the Democratic Underground... supposedly the home of Democrats and progressives. Dems don't take their ball and go home, they suck it up and vote for their party because to do otherwise is to aid the Republicans in destroying everything we hold dear.

apnu

(8,758 posts)
72. +1 but also wanted to remind you, Election day is Nov. 8.
Wed May 11, 2016, 04:14 PM
May 2016

November 2nd is a Wednesday. Better early than late, right?

Gary 50

(382 posts)
89. Jeb Bartlet, I've read hundreds of posts by Bernie supporters who say they will never
Thu May 12, 2016, 08:57 AM
May 2016

vote for Hillary and not one of them mentioned her fucking emails. Yeah, that would be insane if it were the case but her email "scandal" isn't among the ten thousand reasons so many people can't imagine pulling the lever for someone they believe to be so utterly dishonest.

Flatpicker

(894 posts)
43. She痴 better than the alternative.
Tue May 10, 2016, 09:23 PM
May 2016

Completely agree with that.

She's a standstill Presidency. At least it would not be a backslide in most ways.

 

Hulk

(6,699 posts)
53. Well hell yes!
Wed May 11, 2016, 01:22 AM
May 2016

I would support damned near anybody...even a republican, before I would let the egomaniac fook this country up once and for all.

Sweet Jesus, I'd back ANY democrat, and nearly ALL the 17 clowns that began the repug circus before I would ever let drumpf get in the White House. That would set this country back to the stone age.

tomm2thumbs

(13,297 posts)
60. it's akin to supporting maggots
Wed May 11, 2016, 05:48 AM
May 2016

if they'll eat the dead, rotting flesh off your infected arm and save your life

bwahahahahaha -- actually, they do use maggots to do this, so it's all how you look at it

and Trump is the dead, rotting flesh of this country's political system


Science talk:
http://www.livescience.com/17554-maggots-clean-wounds-faster-surgeons.html

* and I am not saying anyone is a maggot

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
87. I don't think it's intended as a "ringing endorsement".
Thu May 12, 2016, 08:00 AM
May 2016

I will vote for Bernie in November without hesitation if he is the Democratic candidate. That is not a "ringing endorsement" of Sanders.

Akicita

(1,196 posts)
79. I have much respect for Michael Moore but he isn't going to affect whether I vote for Hillary or
Wed May 11, 2016, 08:08 PM
May 2016

stay home. I'm waiting to hear what Susan Sarandon does. I'll do whatever she does.

The Green Manalishi

(1,054 posts)
83. One positive thought
Wed May 11, 2016, 09:04 PM
May 2016

Bernie as secretary of the Treasury.

Right in Wall Street's grill and up their ass with a probe, and utterly un buyable.

Yeah, I'm voting for Bernie in the primaries,I hope he gets the nomination because I think he can take out der Trumpenfurher but as long as he has some position under Clinton We are going to be orders of magnitude better than with Trump.

Hillary's instincts are centrist, some of her positions are progressive and she has a ferocious will to power the equal of no one since Richard Nixon (don't freak out at the comparison, because Tricky Dick came from utter humiliation to winning it all in a brilliant and ruthless comeback) and the winner is very often the one who wants it the most and is willing to eat the most shit, kiss the most ass and work the hardest, nature of the game.

Three or four SCOTUS seats; that means more for the issues that matter to us, the POC, the GLBT, those of us concerned with income inequality as well as not fencing up the planet beyond habitability, because SCOTUS is going to decide issues that relate to all of those and more.

marmar

(77,088 posts)
88. Not exactly a ringing endorsement.....and I feel the same way he does.
Thu May 12, 2016, 08:23 AM
May 2016

I'll vote for her, but without anything resembling enthusiasm. It's all about keeping the psychos away from the WH and a potential Supreme Court nomination.


chervilant

(8,267 posts)
92. I live in a state
Thu May 12, 2016, 01:40 PM
May 2016

that will go to Trump, regardless of my vote. Plus, I cannot write in Bernie, if Hi11ary succeeds in stealing winning the nomination.

I don't understand how anyone supports either of these "presumptive nominees." I just cannot see either of them as POTUS. Blech...

videohead5

(2,181 posts)
96. Maybe But She Will Keep
Sat May 14, 2016, 12:24 AM
May 2016

The supreme court from going far to the right for like 40 or 50 years.in four years even if you get the progressive you want that supreme court will still be there.

democrattotheend

(11,605 posts)
97. I agree with him
Sat May 14, 2016, 12:29 AM
May 2016

Like him, I'm with Bernie to the end (donated again last week), but I am committed to supporting whoever the nominee is. But like Moore says, Hillary will do some good if she is president. For starters, by putting at least a center-left moderate in Scalia's seat.

SleeplessinSoCal

(9,135 posts)
98. Thank you Michael Moore for being ths smartest Bernie backer.
Sat May 14, 2016, 04:03 AM
May 2016

Those who disagree with you - and berate you - here are likely voting for Trump.

NNadir

(33,539 posts)
99. Maybe the dumb guy learned his lesson after working so hard to put Bush in the White House.
Sat May 14, 2016, 12:52 PM
May 2016

The number of Iraqis who died as a result of his efforts in 2000 vastly outstrips the number of dead at Columbine, but he made a movie about the latter case, not the former.

I couldn't care less what he does. He should stick to eating donuts.

 

annavictorious

(934 posts)
103. I think Moore remembers what happened in the 2000 election
Sat May 14, 2016, 07:40 PM
May 2016

when Nobel Peace Prize laureate / environmental activist Al Gore (characterized by purists as the corporatist, establishment, third way, lesser of two evils candidate) lost because of "progressive" support for Ralph Nader.

Moore's endorsement of the egotistical purist Nader over evil liar Al Gore helped to elect GW Bush. I guess Moore doesn't want to be responsible for President Trump as well.

Feathery Scout

(218 posts)
105. I'll take it!!
Sat May 14, 2016, 08:11 PM
May 2016

I'm a Hillary supporter, but mainly I believe in carrying on Obama's path forward for our nation....

And I'm mortified at the thought of Trump purposely destroying all of our success.

So, even a reluctant....unexcited.....nudge towards Democratic unity is huge in my eyes.

And I give a big thank you to Mr. Moore.

I would have gladly voted for Senator Sanders had he won the nomination.
 

cherokeeprogressive

(24,853 posts)
107. Do you all bring your own buses to these threads? How many Hillary supporters think wholly for
Sat May 14, 2016, 08:48 PM
May 2016

yourselves without relying on others to tell you what you think, or what TO think? Who gives a FUCK about Michael Moore's endorsement but you and Hillary? His endorsement doesn't make me less of a person for supporting Bernie Sanders. Nor does it make me stupid for supporting Bernie Sanders. Should it actually affect the principles I live by?

I find it curious and amusing at the same time; this living for the next famous person to endorse Hillary Clinton. It's like positive reinforcement or something. Endorsements reinforce your belief that it's Hillary's turn in such a way that makes me think you question it in the first place. On one hand, Hillary supporters crow about her endorsements from the rooftops. On the other, they wear Bernie's lack of them like a badge of honor.

I don't know about most other Bernie Sanders supporters, but I think for myself and endorsements could neither reinforce the righteousness or wrongness of my decision to support him.

In short? I don't give a FUCK who Michael Moore endorses. Or anyone else. Or some newspaper I've never read. Or some pop musician whose music I'd not listen to on my worst day. Or politicians. There are maybe four or five politicians I'd even piss on if I saw them rolling on the ground on fire.

Now, if that's me throwing Michael Moore under the bus... I hope he didn't fuck it up somehow, and warp the driveshaft or something. This bus has been running fine up until now. Is that his rich hundred-million dollar ass I see in the rear view mirror? Maybe it is.

Response to brooklynite (Original post)

KansDem

(28,498 posts)
109. If he supports Hillary, then he's for "Moore of the Same"
Sun May 15, 2016, 03:41 PM
May 2016

"...she will do some good." Lloyd Blankfein is ecstatic!


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