In 2008, Clinton didn't concede until four days after the last primary.

[Vattel]

Her staying in that long was, at least arguably, dangerous for the Democratic Party. McCain was a serious candidate and might have won had the economy not tanked right before the general election.

This year we have Trump to face. He can't possibly beat Clinton or Sanders, and so Sanders' staying in won't change the outcome of the general. He should stay in for the sake of the revolution that, God willing and the creek don't rise, will eventually drag the Democratic Party to the left.

[LiberalFighter]

1. It was a lot closer in 2008.

There is no comparison between 2008 and 2016.

[Armstead]

4. Is there, like a cutoff point where it's acceptable to compete?

If so what fraction of a percentage is that?

[thesquanderer]

5. Whatever HRC did is okay, and defines the outer limit of acceptable behavior.

I think this pretty much applies to everything.

[Armstead]

6. True -- Whatever percentage she had, minus 1 probably

[leveymg]

10. Let's not forget, also, she had to be promised the State Dept. to release her delegates.

She maximized that, too. A Cabinet of Enemies. She seemed to take that deal as carte blanche to do everything, even create her own secret intelligence service and private communications system to host it onto. Too bad her informants ripped off a lot of their intel from existing classified US Government systems. Her response, "Keep it coming. Too bad, as well, that violated her signed security oath. She defined The Outer Limits of acceptable behavior, and well past. Eventually, there is a wall that doesn't expand, even for her.

[grasswire]

13. clear and concise.

May it all come back to bite her, Karma.

[leveymg]

14. She got to that position by a familiar and accepted form of blackmail. Not merit.

Makes what she did in office all the worse.

[grasswire]

15. You know what burns me the most about all that?

It's the fact that she thought so little of Obama -- or thought herself so superior to him -- that she with impunity ran a rogue foreign policy out of his sight. And then she made this betrayal even deeper by using Sid Blumenthal as her closest advisor after he had been explicitly banned from advising her by Obama.

That is some serious, serious disrespect she paid to Obama.

[leveymg]

16. I strongly suspect her impact with an immovable wall is imminent.

[grasswire]

18. As my Unitarian friends say: May it be so. nt

[senz]

29. I hope Obama was, and remains, properly pissed off.

Despite her campaign's effort to wrap her in Obama, I've always gotten the impression that he barely tolerates her.

[grasswire]

34. Tweety is claiming that Obama is going to campaign hard for her.

I wonder.

Putting myself in his shoes if he despises her as he has a right to, I would just let justice roll down. No pardon. Let her stew in the juice she brewed.

[senz]

38. Tweety's wife's campaign depended on Hill-sourced donations.

But it is a given that Obama will campaign for whoever wins the Dem nom. He has no choice.

Yes, let justice roll down like a river, righteousness like a mighty stream!

Maybe we should send the Bible quote to Obama.

[grasswire]

44. nice idea, that

I could send a paper letter to the WH.

[Gomez163]

32. That's an outright lie.

[grasswire]

35. link?

[Gomez163]

41. We all know she was asked after the election. Read Obama's Wars or Hard Choices.

Give a link to the lie

[leveymg]

45. That's a polite and mutually agreeable fiction.

What do you think the two talked about that evening in her living room in Georgetown after he slipped off the airplane? Or, do you really believe he chose her over everyone else who actually supported him who would have been a good fit for that job?

[Gomez163]

53. You have no proof. Link, plesse.

[leveymg]

40. Explain yourself.

[StevieM]

42. There is not one truthful word to your assertions. And you have called President Obama

a criminal by asserting that he promised Hillary the S.O.S. job in exchange for her support.

[leveymg]

46. That wouldn't make him a criminal. Just a politician

Like the rest, tainted by the process they all have to operate in. No better or worse.

[StevieM]

47. Actually, yes, it would make him a criminal if he promised her the S.O.S. job in exchange for her

support and assistance in the campaign. That would have been illegal if it had happened.

[leveymg]

48. Tell us on what charge and what nominee hasn't horse traded Cabinet positions

in exchange for delegate votes? This sort of thing is as old as the two party system. Maybe you're right, it should be illegal. It's a polite fiction that there was no deal made.

[StevieM]

49. Here is the information you requested.

http://www.politicususa.com/2016/04/01/trump-facing-criminal-investigation-illegal-job-offer-ben-carson.html

[leveymg]

50. When was the last time anyone in a Presidential campaign was prosecuted 18 USC 599?

My lord, you think that nobody actually gets appointed to public office in America on the basis of a deal? That's like saying that campaign contributions don't buy access.

[leveymg]

59. The answer to that is never, because the Cong intent of 599 was to criminalize vote selling

by corruption not the "legitimate activities of government" as negotiation of appointments has been characterized. See,
320 LOYOLA OF LOS ANGELES LAW REVIEW [Vol. 42:293] pp 319-320. Google: .pdf Mr. Presidential Candidate: Whom Would You Nominate


In Hartlage, there was at least a plausible interest that the state
could articulate (avoiding vote-buying), even though it was
unpersuasive.85 It is difficult to see any legitimate—much less
compelling—interest that the government would have in preventing
83. Hartlage, 456 U.S. at 58.
84. Id. at 55–56; see also id. at 60
In barring certain public statements with respect to this issue, the State ban runs
directly contrary to the fundamental premises underlying the First Amendment as the
guardian of our democracy. That Amendment embodies our trust in the free exchange
of ideas as the means by which the people are to choose between good ideas and bad,
and between candidates for political office. The State’s fear that voters might make an
ill-advised choice does not provide the State with a compelling justification for limiting
speech.
Id.
85. Id. at 54.
320 LOYOLA OF LOS ANGELES LAW REVIEW [Vol. 42:293
corruption via prohibiting the naming of cabinet or Supreme Court
nominees. Put differently, it is hard to fathom what the state’s
interest would be. In Hartlage, there was a benefit to voters in the
form of reduced taxes,86 but here there is no benefit to voters other
than the likely nomination of appointees whom they would like to
see in positions of power—and there is no conceivable state interest
in preventing that from happening.

[artislife]

52. I think once they are in office, then all bets are off..

hey I love Obama and will miss him. I hated that he gave her the SoS job, but I believe he did that so she wouldn't run against him in 2012

[Stallion]

11. She Was Behind by About 95 Delegates Not 305

see Bernie loses to Sanders again. Clinton had Millions more votes than Sanders both this year and in comparison to 2008. You lost-face it. I did in 2008 but still proudly cast votes for Obama in both 2008 and 2012. That's what Democrats do. That's why 98% of Democratic Officeholders support her and why 100% will in the General Election

[grasswire]

36. but, you see...

...Obama has not broken the law and was never under FBI investigation.

That's the difference between uniting behind Obama and uniting behind HRC.

[jcgoldie]

54. well on may 1st

Obama was up less then 100 delegates and Clinton is up by 300+ ... pretty sure we won't have to get to fractions of a percentage.

[Armstead]

55. I have a feeling Clinton would have stuick it out in Bernie's position

[jcgoldie]

56. maybe right

And he should too I suppose.

[Vattel]

8. True, but prior to the last primaries she had no significant chance of winning.

[truedelphi]

2. And although HRC has been quite busy busy busy telling us how eagerly she

Conceded, and that she got nothing in return for her conceding, how did she get her position as State Department head?

[Vinca]

7. Who paid off her campaign debt?

Raise your hand if you donated to Obama in 2008.

[moriah]

22. I did, and a little to Hillary for her campaign debt aftrr the General was over myself. Nt

[LiberalFighter]

23. If you think money you donated in 2008 or even 2012

went towards her debt you are wrong. It came from people after the 2008 campaign was over.

[Ino]

25. According to her, Obama begged her...

If you can stand it, she tells a very long story about it in this interview
From 2:00 to 5:00...

It kinda reminds me of Julius Caesar refusing the crown before accepting it. As Shakespeare pictured it...

CASCA: I can as well be hanged as tell the manner of it. It was mere foolery. I did not mark it. I saw Mark Antony offer him a crown (yet ’twas not a crown neither, ’twas one of these coronets) and, as I told you, he put it by once—but, for all that, to my thinking, he would fain have had it. Then he offered it to him again, then he put it by again—but, to my thinking, he was very loath to lay his fingers off it. And then he offered it the third time. He put it the third time by. And still, as he refused it, the rabblement hooted and clapped their chapped hands and threw up their sweaty night-caps and uttered such a deal of stinking breath because Caesar refused the crown that it had almost choked Caesar—for he swooned and fell down at it. And for mine own part, I durst not laugh for fear of opening my lips and receiving the bad air.

She did paraphrase Julius Caesar with her "we came, we saw, he died" joke.

[senz]

30. Someone made that claim a couple of days ago

someone who always pretends to have insider knowledge about everything. They said he asked Hill three times to please be his SOS.

After what she did in Libya, Syria, and Honduras, I could see him asking her three times to leave...

[truedelphi]

60. Well, I am still thinking about it -

Whether I can rec your post or not. <snort, giggle, smirk

The Shakespeare quote alone was amazing. And not from HRC but from you.

Thanks!

[Vattel]

3. oops. replied in wrong place

[kgnu_fan]

9. She is going to drag on this time as well.

[Vattel]

12. I wish I had your optimism. I hope that truth and goodness will prevail, but it don't look likely.

[CrowCityDem]

17. Bernie is 300% further behind.

[Vattel]

20. see post 8

[Demsrule86]

19. I would not underestimate Trump

Time for Bernie to get out after California.

[moriah]

21. I have always said he should stay in, at least, until everyone gets a voice. Nt

[LiberalFighter]

24. How is everyone going to get a voice?

What will he get out of it? Just got done watching a segment about party platforms. It is only eye candy that is ignored after the election is over. He won't have any leverage at the convention.

[seabeyond]

26. Clinton won the popular vote in 2008, she is over 3 million ahead of Sanders in 2016.

[northernsouthern]

27. Yeah it is funny how tow faced she is on this...

...pushing everyone else to get Bernie to drop out, dropping subtle hints, but whenever she is confronted with the things she said and did she quickly says she thinks he should stay in.

[senz]

31. Yes! I noticed that.

She makes both statements, but the "should stay in" one is always said rather rotely, like a memorized phrase.

[AgerolanAmerican]

28. you had me until

"McCain was a serious candidate"

McCain was slightly less serious than Vermin Supreme.

[Kalidurga]

51. Vermin Supreme would be a better president than McCain and Hilly.

[Vattel]

58. By serious, I mean someone who could possibly win.

In terms of who would might make a good president, Obama was the only serious candidate.

[brewens]

33. Bernie isn't just running to satisfy his own lust for power and wealth and fatten up

his cronies. That makes everything completely different. What hes doing is trying to make the country better for all of us.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

37. in 2008, the difference of pledged delegates between them was FAR less

and by some measures the popular vote too.

this is not at all what is happening here.

also, i support bernie staying till the end and hope he concedes before the convention.

[sadoldgirl]

39. All of this depend on how many

"irregularities" or ''''glitches" happen during
the next primaries. I doubt that there won't be any.

[StevieM]

43. Actually, she released word that she would be suspending her campaign within 24 hours.

The formal concession speech happened three days after that, but people knew she was exiting the race the day after the final votes were cast.

Also, 2008 set a new precedent....a new standard. There had never before been an understanding that the PD winner was the rightful winner. PDs were not considered the equivalent of electoral votes up until that point. So it is understandable that it took a little bit longer for Hillary to concede, given that in the past a race that close--where the leading candidate was hundreds of PDs short of what he needed to secure the nomination--had always gone to the convention.

But contrast, Sanders and Clinton both entered the 2016 race knowing full well that the PD winner would be considered the inevitable nominee.

All that said, I see no reason for Bernie should drop out. He should stay in through June 14 when Washington DC votes. But if he doesn't win then I hope he will endorse her after the final votes, rather than stay in through the convention.

[Vattel]

57. Thanks. I had forgotten that she had suspended her campaign the day after the last primaries.

I guess I don't see much of a difference concerning the PDs. In 2008 I think it was clear well before the end of the primaries that the PD winner would be the winner.

[joshcryer]

62. Well, Clinton set that precedence up.

If course if she had a couple of hundred extra supers she could have tried the more votes gambit, had them do.

Instead, she simply conceded.

It'll be unfortunate it Sanders contests the convention with Weavers guiding hand.

[joshcryer]

61. It was quite good for the party, it kept the GE focus away.

And livened the base. There's nothing wrong with finishing up the primaries.

[Vattel]

63. Yeah, you may be right. Perhaps there wasn't much of a risk of harm in either case (2008 or 2016)

[joshcryer]

64. Less now, really. We've been here before.

In 2008 there was a real concern Clinton would throw a wrench into things. Ironically, though people want Sanders to I think it's highly unlikely.