After arguing about the angels on the head of Hillary's pin, Sanders supporters need incentive

[bigtree]

...to confront the republican nominee?

Just how do Sanders supporters expect to challenge the republican nominee if they refuse to join with other Democrats? After arguing with virtually EVERY Clinton initiative and portraying her as some kind of evil, where do supporters who say they'll refuse to join with Democrats in the general election intend to confront the republican nominee?

Almost everyone agrees any republican will be absolutely intolerable to any progressive agenda. Unless I'm missing something, those who refuse to help elect our Democratic nominee will be doing squat to block the republicans from the presidency. This is why it's impossible to take that kind of nonsense seriously. They're supposedly so opposed to Clinton that they'll refuse to vote for her, but they'll do absolutely nothing of any consequence to keep republicans out of the White House?

'Bernie or Bust' isn't a virtue, it's just a sorry admission that defeating Clinton is the practitioners' solitary mission; all of the griping about Wall St. ties or warmongering just a cheap campaign tactic. When the rubber meets the road, when their vote really counts toward defeating the republican nominee, they intend to be absent and unaccountable.

Not ONE more word should be taken seriously from 'Bernie or Bust' advocates after they declare their intention to do next to nothing while Democrats do the heavy lifting to defeat the republican nominee. No one actually concerned about the advancement of progressive ideals and initiatives will take their ball and go home when the primaries are over; no one with a shred of integrity about the progressive issues they've said they represent and advocate.

[sufrommich]

1. I give Bernie or Bust as much serious consideration

as I gave the PUMAs of 2008. They're a small,albeit loud,minority who are going to have zero effect on the election.

[seabeyond]

4. The Puma of 2016, you are right. Nt

[George II]

26. I just wonder about those "Party Unity" people since they never were part of the Party anyway.

[seabeyond]

27. I was blissfully oblivious to them in '08. Let's me kick them to the curb in '16 seeing their

ineffectiveness.

[Baobab]

59. We are confronting the REAL "Republican nominee"

And HRC and the (Demo)GOPs are cheating.

We wised up.

[seabeyond]

62. "We wised up." Lol. Hey.... Clinton has been hurt more in suppression than Sanders, and nu uh. Lol

[bigtree]

5. I read that there were up to 40% of Hillary supporters in 2008

...who had indicated a refusal to vote for Obama.

I take some comfort in knowing that never materialized into anything significant.

I do think, though, that these calls for denying Hillary a vote should be challenged to tell us just how they intend to contribute to the defeat of the republican nominee. Right now, they're treated as some paragon of virtue, when, in fact, they are a retreat from principle and a surrender of responsibility for the issues they've purported to advocate or oppose.

[Baobab]

64. This is how we WILL defeat him By a Landslide (polling image)

And Bernie will have coattails. Democrats will take back both the House and Senate.

We shall overcome!

[realmirage]

18. Pretty much nailed it

[Hortensis]

22. Agree. Our focus has to be on persuading the far

larger blocks of people who haven't worked themselves up into implacable hostility.

Most of those hanging with the angry ones would, on their own, become more thoughtful about their choices during the GE and become more open and reasonable. The concern, of course, is that GOP propagandists will be working hard to keep that from happening.

As for the hard-core left- and right-wing anti-Democrats, they'll do whatever they do. If the PUMAs are any guide, some will ditch their supposed progressivism to vote for Trump.

[sufrommich]

24. Yep. Fortunately for the rest of us,

their numbers are very small.

[COLGATE4]

2. Let me be the first to K&R

[beachbum bob]

3. If you DON"T vote AGAINST the hate of the GOP then you are supporting the HATE

pretty simple....turn your backs on the HATE...you are just as responsible for it no matter how you spin the rationale in your head

[pressbox69]

16. Well said

great post.

[rickford66]

55. If you didn't vote aginst Wall Street influence ....

then you supported it. Two way street.

[Trust Buster]

6. Both fringes of the political spectrum have such narcissistic people. They cancel each other out

come election time. No big deal.

[Armstead]

17. Don't use such misleading terms

It is not "narcisstic" to want a better world for everyone.

I'm not saying they're "Better" but you are deflecting from actual ideas and motivations to dismissive crap with statements like that.

[Trust Buster]

35. I'll use whatever term I damn well please to use. Got it ?

[Armstead]

40. How about if I say "pretty please"?

You don't have to say or avoid anything.

But unless you are deliberately trying to drive away support for Clinton, I would suggest you not use misleading characterizations.

[Trust Buster]

42. I believe both political fringes display narcissistic tendencies. I do not need nor seek your

permission to use the word.

[sufrommich]

8. I think you've come to the wrong place.nt

[bigtree]

11. I can say without a doubt that you don't have a clue about that of which you speak

...I consider anyone pushing this line to either have motives outside of any progressive or Democratic agenda, or, is so uninformed as to make all of the rest of their declarations questionable, at best.

[inchhigh]

25. Really?

I can show you many quotes of Trumps in favor of LGBT rights way before her. He has spoken out abbot her disasterous foreign policy decisions. He dos not believe abortion rights should be restricted. I know you want to fall back on the "Oh but he's AWFUL" but a whole lot of independents see her as the conservative on these issues for good reason.

She isn't somehow magically better on the issues just because you want to be.

[puffy socks]

29. Surely you jest!

[sufrommich]

31. God God, this is pure delusion. nt

[BootinUp]

33. I don't think you have been paying attention

Trump is a demogogue. He has certainly demonstrated this on womens issues, and several other minority groups. Did you not hear his views on punishment for women who have an abortion? I don't keep track of all of his outrageous bullshit, but you have to be living in a cave to think he is better than Hillary on equal protections for minority groups. He goes to great effort to attract the kind of voters who get off on hating minority groups and equal rights protections.

[MoonRiver]

9. Many are actually Repubs

and know exactly what they're doing.

[pressbox69]

19. That is becoming

quite clear as we reach the end of primary road.

[NurseJackie]

10. Bravo!

[Hortensis]

23. You're too much, NurseJackie!

I loved her in that role. Gotta go watch it again.

[NurseJackie]

37. :-)

[Bluenorthwest]

12. Democrats out West are working hard on an election, both candidates need that work to be

done. Even people who think Reagan was an AIDS activist have to understand that.....

"It may be hard for your viewers to remember how difficult it was for people to talk about HIV/AIDS back in the 1980s and because of both president and Mrs. Reagan — in particular Mrs. Reagan — we started a national conversation, when before nobody would talk about it, nobody wanted to do anything about it, and that too is something I really appreciate with her very effective low-key advocacy. It penetrated the public conscience and people began to say, hey, we have to do something about this too." Hillary Clinton's Mission Statement 2016

[puffy socks]

38. Bernard lied: "NAFTA, supported by the Secretary (Clinton), cost us 800,000 jobs nationwide."

Says he was endorsed by the Valley News newspaper.
Says a Sanders campaign ad "never said ... a newspaper endorsed us that did not."

"Almost all of the polls that have come out suggest that I am a much stronger candidate against the Republicans than is Hillary Clinton."

[Warren Stupidity]

13. You're another one who appears to think that the best thing to

do at this point is to see how many people you can alienate and drive away.

[Armstead]

15. Bingo

[Katashi_itto]

28. Nailed it.

[Armstead]

14. This could have been written in every election for the last 35 years

Accept the Corporate status quo to stop the GOP -- don't look for, or push for, or expect anything better...ever.

[realmirage]

20. Those talking points taste good

When offered talking points as snacks that turn you against your own party, don't question, you deserve it!

[riderinthestorm]

21. I've already moved on to climate change activism in my community

Anyone with a shred of concern for the very real forthcoming climate change disasters has now written off this election and is doing the "heavy.lifting" on the only issue that really matters anymore.

But do carry on berating voters who believe Hillary is a bad choice. Its such a winning strategy. ..



PS I didn't miss your goal post moving - now its not just enough for Bernie supporters to vote for Hillary, their lack of doing the "heavy lifting" to get Hillary nominated is now also cause for your bile.

Make no mistake, when Hillary loses it will be her fault, no one else's.

[Frances]

30. I was very patient with the Nader supporters in 2000

Because I thought they were sincere but naive
I also realized that many really thought W would not be that bad
But people who are equating Hillary with Bernie have no excuse
They are exhibiting willful ignorance
Or they are purposely trying to divide the Dems so the Republican Party can run the country

[riderinthestorm]

34. It's a myth that Nader cost Gore the election. That's been thoroughly debunked.

http://disinfo.com/2010/11/debunked-the-myth-that-ralph-nader-cost-al-gore-the-2000-election/

http://m.dailykos.com/story/2013/12/6/1260721/-The-Nader-Myth

Gore is 100% responsible for what happened in that election. Hillary will similarly be 100% responsible for what happens to her this election.

[Frances]

39. So you still support Nader?

[riderinthestorm]

43. I never voted for Nader. I happily voted for Gore nt

[dsc]

49. New Hampshire isn't mentioned

and without Nader, Gore would have won New Hampshire and the election.

[riderinthestorm]

50. Or Gore could have run a better campaign and won his home state of TN and won the election

On and on and on with the what ifs.

Sorry but Nader didn't cost Gore that election and that's a fact.

[Android3.14]

32. You guys with your tactics and corporate candidate shat in the primary bed, not us

If Hillary steals the nomination, you have no one to blame but yourselves.

[GeorgeGist]

36. How not to win support ...

while creating an excuse for losing.

[Rebkeh]

41. You misunderstand

The enemy of my enemy is my friend logic is flawed. It will not work with Bernie supporters because this political revolution is about values and principles, ideology to some degree, rather than a simple victory against the republicans. We just aren't buying into the distractions. We advocate for actual change and a democrat winning an election doesn't guarantee change.

Speaking for myself...

Creating unity by using a common enemy isn't going to work either. Fear tactics do not motivate people like me, they repel us.

If you want our votes, earn them.

[bigtree]

45. the consequences of a presidential election can be devastating

You said:

"a democrat winning an election doesn't guarantee change"

That's very true. Even the election of a practicing progressive doesn't 'guarantee' change. However, the prospect of progressive change isn't the only consequence of a presidential election. We don't need to look any further than the Bush presidency to disavow any notion that a republican administration can be reasonably weathered without death, destruction, looting of our Treasury, an autocratic evisceration of our Constitution; and the usurping of our rights.

[Rebkeh]

46. Fear tactics won't work either. We are not republicans. Nt

[bigtree]

48. you don't get it

...I'm not really talking to you on this, I'm talking about you.

What you do is your own responsibility.

[Rebkeh]

51. As is yours

If you want to beat Trump, reconsider your nominee.

[procon]

44. Spoiler.

The Bernie diehards are so emotionally invested, they are not just unwilling to quit him, they are unable to tear themselves away. They want their revenge because Bernie lost, and they will act out their tribal vengeance on Hillary by pushing him to become another Nader-esque spoiler who splits up Democrats, empowers third party candidates, or even (shudder) voting for Trump.

They are not concerned if they hand the election to the Republicans. They want Democrats to lose because we didn't vote for Bernie, it would just validate their hatred of Hillary if she lost the election, and their efforts to bring down the Democratic Party would come true.

[sufrommich]

47. Sanders won't be pushed into a third party run,

and then they'll turn their rage on him.

[procon]

54. Eat their own. Yeah, I can see that happening. nt

[tonyt53]

52. A reflection on their past voting

This is just a reflection of their past voting records. Most have never bothered to vote or even register to vote, even though they could have in the past. They have been too disconnected and self-centered to even bother. Now a guy comes along and says "free college tuition" and "free healthcare" and they all jump on his bandwagon. Nothing is free. Nothing. Then add in the fact that Bernie plan to tax the wealthy, and yes, raise the taxes of everybody else, to pay for these things, and it gets even more twisted. THEN add in the fact that Bernie has not supported a single person running for Senate seats. He supports three people running for House seats and that is it. A Democrat majority in the Senate will mean a Democrat majority in the SCOTUS. Many of the changes needed in this country will happen by that happening. Bernie's supporters are so naive that they think the President can do all of those things by themselves. Evidently, so does Bernie.

Now his supporters are saying they will just not vote in the general election. Weird part is, most would not anyway. The election is six months away and their attention span isn't that long.

[Armstead]

56. Spoken like a true Republican -- Dirty damn Hippies

Paint millions of people with the same broad brush

[whatchamacallit]

53. Yet these posts are composed daily

Seems pretty serious to me.

[B Calm]

57. I'm not there yet on who I will support if Bernie loses. As long as Bernie is still in the race, I

support him. I do know Trump will win if Hillary fails at winning support from Bernie supporters. She'll need to adopt some of Bernie's left wing agenda in order to win our votes. A good place to start is the failed war on drugs and medicare for all.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

58. Damn! The Loyalt Oath demands are appearing almost hourly.

[bigtree]

60. it's in response to the flurry of fantastical posts

...about waging a revolution whilst sitting on one's hands.

[Thinkingabout]

61. It is either we are concerned about progressive or it becomes more important to defeat Hillary.

Of course I support Hillary but the thought of having Trump and Cruz is overwhelming.

[Dustlawyer]

63. I like how the Hillary supporters are trying to unify the Party!

Not! Comments above say we are "fringe," "don't matter"... Way to go team!

What you don't seem to understand about Bernie supporters in general, is that we believe that Democrats will always be faced with a choice between a 3rd way Democrat and the evil Republican bogeyman! When we have to try to actually fight for real Democratic principals, we have to fight everyone from the richest, most powerful people/corporations, the Republicans, corporate media, and the Third Way Democrats.

Our movement will continue and Hillary will do her part, should she win, to prove Bernie's point that the money in politics has corrupted everything!

[Scurrilous]

65. K & R