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tavernier

(12,406 posts)
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 08:43 PM Apr 2016

MSNBC just said that a recent poll shows Sanders supporters may vote for Trump

in the GE if Hillary is the nominee. I believe the poll number was low, but still disturbing to think that this is a possibility.

Please tell me they are wrong.



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MSNBC just said that a recent poll shows Sanders supporters may vote for Trump (Original Post) tavernier Apr 2016 OP
Not surprised, in fact as I recall the Sanders campaign BootinUp Apr 2016 #1
Post removed Post removed Apr 2016 #31
What will Hillary do to earn our votes? Baobab Apr 2016 #40
Excellent questions n/t MissDeeds Apr 2016 #44
nothing enid602 Apr 2016 #54
Could you be more specific please? Baobab Apr 2016 #57
nada, zilch, zero etc Demsrule86 May 2016 #240
winning the primary only ever mattered BootinUp Apr 2016 #58
True Demsrule86 May 2016 #238
Because Trump is obviously too gentle and moral a soul thucythucy Apr 2016 #84
What's Trump doing to earn Sanders supporters votes? Chicago1980 Apr 2016 #102
Nope, we love those. She'd lose 60% to gain 7%. Hortensis Apr 2016 #155
This message was self-deleted by its author Ed Suspicious Apr 2016 #206
What an absurd, offensive thing to say MissDeeds Apr 2016 #47
You said it so much more nicely than I would have Ned_Devine Apr 2016 #78
Your response is representative of the tone from the Hillary campaign. hellofromreddit Apr 2016 #79
"Condescension without substance." Sums them up perfectly. senz Apr 2016 #104
Would it be better or worse judgement than voting for the Iraq war? Asking for a friend. n/t actslikeacarrot Apr 2016 #91
They weren't 'identified' but those of us on the ground found that when we talked to many Trump Live and Learn Apr 2016 #189
I talked to some, too NJCher May 2016 #226
Why not? White, privilege. No loss to them. Nt seabeyond Apr 2016 #2
I'll make sure to tell my Black Neighbor who voted for Trump that he needs to stop with the White Skwmom Apr 2016 #8
mmmm. Ya. There is the ticket. Go with that. seabeyond Apr 2016 #9
Gotta blame everything but the obvious. polly7 Apr 2016 #21
True. Ghost Dog Apr 2016 #35
It's a slooooow process. We must be sure to get the Republicans out of congress first. They kerry-is-my-prez Apr 2016 #165
We *had* Congress, then Obama prioritized bailing out the banks instead of Main Street. w4rma Apr 2016 #194
POTUS also hires & fires and can influence whether/how laws/policies are enforced TheDormouse Apr 2016 #196
heehee +1 840high Apr 2016 #37
White male privilege. Yavin4 Apr 2016 #49
I thought we stopped lying about Bernie supporters being all men? merrily Apr 2016 #85
Trump has made multiple good statements about planned parenthood. runaway hero Apr 2016 #109
I don't trust a word that Trump says. Abortion is NOT a wash. yardwork Apr 2016 #137
Any rumor that he will ban it is false runaway hero Apr 2016 #147
Wrong. The Supreme Court can undo Roe v Wade at any time. yardwork Apr 2016 #150
I don't believe so runaway hero Apr 2016 #151
You're missing the point. Trump will appoint right wing Supreme Court justices. yardwork Apr 2016 #153
Trump is center right runaway hero Apr 2016 #156
lol @ center Republican. Mr. 'deport 11 million people' is Radical RW batshit crazy Republican. Sunlei Apr 2016 #162
You are aware most people don't like illegal immigration runaway hero Apr 2016 #164
sure, in the simple, shallow-people hating- Republican tone. Sunlei Apr 2016 #170
The majority of the country runaway hero Apr 2016 #172
You're wrong. Don't elect Republicans. Sunlei Apr 2016 #175
prove otherwise. runaway hero Apr 2016 #188
I'm much happier with undocumented friends & neighbors. You should really speak for yourself. Sunlei Apr 2016 #191
You should not be condoning criminal behaviour runaway hero Apr 2016 #192
My opinion is you're another Republican people hater. Sunlei Apr 2016 #193
Ha. runaway hero Apr 2016 #195
My opinion is all people matter, Sunlei Apr 2016 #201
A crime is a crime. runaway hero Apr 2016 #204
yes, in America everyone has rights including thieves. Sunlei Apr 2016 #207
Thieves are mostly citizens runaway hero Apr 2016 #210
Are you related to Trump? Rosa Luxemburg May 2016 #242
I'm a realist. runaway hero May 2016 #243
You don't seem to understand how our Supreme Court works. Sunlei Apr 2016 #203
It's not politically convenient. runaway hero Apr 2016 #205
"Politics Schmolitics", I don't give a shit about politics. Sunlei Apr 2016 #208
I'm not a trumpie runaway hero Apr 2016 #209
nope, that thirdway is bogus. I only donated to Sanders, but I'll vote for the D primary winner. Sunlei May 2016 #222
Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2016 #66
The establishment exists to preserve white privilege AgingAmerican Apr 2016 #101
And lookie, an old white man sitting smack in the middle of that establishment attracting other seabeyond Apr 2016 #105
Sanders has always been an outsider AgingAmerican Apr 2016 #121
Sanders fits the definition of establishment to the T. seabeyond Apr 2016 #136
The guy who criticizes booth parties is an insider? pinebox Apr 2016 #140
Sanders is the definition of establishment and an hoot was everyone tries to pretend otherwise. seabeyond Apr 2016 #143
Uh........"establishment" refers to the 2 party system, but you wouldn't know pinebox Apr 2016 #145
The Establishment: A small group that dominates a larger organization AgingAmerican Apr 2016 #181
As I said, the very definition of Sanders. seabeyond Apr 2016 #182
A small group that dominates a larger organization, like the DNC AgingAmerican Apr 2016 #183
Or like the congress. You jsut keep making my point. seabeyond Apr 2016 #184
Right. White men, like those in your family, don't need medical care from the ACA. lumberjack_jeff Apr 2016 #117
We've got a few here. grossproffit Apr 2016 #3
I certainly won't vote for the Donald. floriduck Apr 2016 #7
I'm supprised that there hasn't nee a post made... Matt_R Apr 2016 #212
. baldguy Apr 2016 #4
We'll not all of them are Democrats, so that's certainly the case...especially if we don't silvershadow Apr 2016 #5
Thom Hartmann CobaltBlue Apr 2016 #20
I welcome them to the party. What else do you feel lovemydog Apr 2016 #53
I am not asserting you or anyone else isn't or won't. I'm just saying that, like it or not, silvershadow Apr 2016 #60
Thanks for your kind reply. lovemydog Apr 2016 #61
You are welcome. silvershadow Apr 2016 #65
Jill Stein Baobab Apr 2016 #94
Thanks for your reply. lovemydog Apr 2016 #125
I think we will see a new Progressive Party Emerge INdemo Apr 2016 #67
I suspect that could be true. I'm staying right here to fight for The New Deal and Union labor. silvershadow Apr 2016 #72
True but I think the new Progressive party will be a strong advocate for organized labor INdemo Apr 2016 #75
And never reach critical mass on its' own. nt silvershadow Apr 2016 #83
too late, plus it would likely be another scam. Baobab Apr 2016 #96
You're sad we're not doing enough to attract those Trump voters? Which policies, exactly, are you Squinch Apr 2016 #70
Huh? JaneyVee Apr 2016 #6
Doesn't surprise me. Most of his supporters one from long Independents and folk who haven't Jitter65 Apr 2016 #10
so much for being more liberal than clinton. La Lioness Priyanka Apr 2016 #11
That's the point!! Jack Bone Apr 2016 #41
lol. have you seen his tax policy? do social issues which impact the rest of us so much La Lioness Priyanka Apr 2016 #43
I'm not voting for him...my wifey might Jack Bone Apr 2016 #48
My daughter and a some others will be writing in "Bernie Sanders." Petrushka May 2016 #229
Some will poll that way. They like rallies and insults. They don't like voting Buzz Clik Apr 2016 #12
Those who make such a claim Andy823 Apr 2016 #13
Were never going to vote for a Democrat in the first place DJ13 Apr 2016 #90
Its about other things too. Baobab Apr 2016 #167
Exactly. okasha Apr 2016 #99
This old Bernie supporter madokie Apr 2016 #14
Well...THIS Sanders supporter would never do that Lizzie Poppet Apr 2016 #15
Yup, we've got to turn not mattering astrophuss42 Apr 2016 #30
"Supporters." joshcryer Apr 2016 #16
Realistically CobaltBlue Apr 2016 #17
Assuming that the numbers are correct. If you give in to blackmail once, you'll be politicaljunkie41910 Apr 2016 #18
I dont believe you know what Bernie Sanders will do. INdemo Apr 2016 #69
And guess what, I'm not going to lose any sleep wondering what Bernie Sanders will do either. politicaljunkie41910 Apr 2016 #74
In this you are correct: Your opinion isn't worth a hill of beans. Bohunk68 Apr 2016 #130
Classy comeback. COLGATE4 Apr 2016 #163
I don't doubt this. Barack_America Apr 2016 #19
Why does this surprise anyone? Codeine Apr 2016 #22
Leaving now to look up inchoate ... tavernier Apr 2016 #23
Sigh Red Mountain Apr 2016 #24
Your post sounds like Trump with a thesaurus n/t arcane1 Apr 2016 #55
Since when is "inchoate" such a weird word? Codeine Apr 2016 #64
And how did that sound like Trump? That was weird! Squinch Apr 2016 #71
it isn't obamanut2012 Apr 2016 #131
I never said it was weird; tavernier Apr 2016 #142
Some might, most won't. bigwillq Apr 2016 #25
Anyone that would vote for that fascist bigot over Hillary tammywammy Apr 2016 #26
Which is the worst of two evils? ChairmanAgnostic Apr 2016 #134
Same % as voted for Bush in 2000. HooptieWagon Apr 2016 #27
Given how much they love their Republican talking points, this was predictable. nt procon Apr 2016 #28
After the despicable way she has behaved and the vile behavior of many Android3.14 Apr 2016 #29
+1000 MissDeeds Apr 2016 #68
I am not there yet. Was almost there, but no... Xyzse Apr 2016 #98
Look, the Democratic Party can work 2 include Bernie supporters or it can shit on them as many DUers highprincipleswork Apr 2016 #32
This ^^^^^ libdem4life Apr 2016 #81
+1 snowy owl Apr 2016 #89
That goes both ways mythology Apr 2016 #217
I am well aware that both sides have said nasty things, but that is not the point that is being made highprincipleswork May 2016 #221
Fuck anyone who votes for Trumps racist ass uponit7771 May 2016 #230
Just stop. danimich1 Apr 2016 #33
For every one "Bernie voter" that won't vote for Hillary ... NurseJackie Apr 2016 #34
The candidates will debate... Blanks Apr 2016 #36
Trump hates black folk, including my black ass. He won't get a vote from me. period. desmiller Apr 2016 #38
Trump is an anti-semite and a racist. DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2016 #52
Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2016 #63
I bet most of them change their minds by November. Ilsa Apr 2016 #39
Then Demsrule86 Apr 2016 #42
Nope. The reasons are there and are not going away nadinbrzezinski Apr 2016 #45
News flash... Not everyone is engaged and informed... Yurovsky Apr 2016 #46
Preach it. TheDormouse Apr 2016 #197
If I could amend my comment... Yurovsky May 2016 #223
And as Obama said ... TheDormouse Apr 2016 #198
They are so uninformed and gullible. ecstatic May 2016 #245
"Throw ALL the bums out!" is what I hear from Trump supporters. IdaBriggs Apr 2016 #50
We had a nice run. Obama lifted us in the eyes of other nations. So, now that's over. CentralCoaster Apr 2016 #82
'MSNBC said .... ' Trajan Apr 2016 #51
Read it and weep. (nt) Ino Apr 2016 #56
I may not vote for Hillary but no way in hell.. yourout Apr 2016 #59
and the propaganda continues glinda Apr 2016 #62
Corporate TV is a propaganda wing of the 1% SHRED Apr 2016 #73
I dont know anyone who will do that marlakay Apr 2016 #76
Anyone who votes for Trump approves of his racist, bigoted, misogynistic, totalitatarian Agnosticsherbet Apr 2016 #77
+1000 stonecutter357 Apr 2016 #128
Nice try. bvf Apr 2016 #80
As in every Presidential, the Democrats who vote Republican are far more likely to merrily Apr 2016 #86
Totally agree. snowy owl Apr 2016 #87
MSNBC should worry about that given their abuse of Bernie in the campaign. snowy owl Apr 2016 #88
And they all post here on DU. n/t Lil Missy Apr 2016 #92
No they don't. You assume too much bkkyosemite Apr 2016 #177
Possibly but at least as many GOP voters, women for example, will vote for Hillary. ucrdem Apr 2016 #93
there will be a few, but it's going to be a small minority 0rganism Apr 2016 #95
I'm sure you can find some people who will say that, but I doubt it will be widespread Algernon Moncrieff Apr 2016 #97
MSNBC is FOX news lite AgingAmerican Apr 2016 #100
*pffft* I'd happily slit my own throat before I'd vote for ANY republican. nt Zorra Apr 2016 #103
I've said it before, Sanders supporters are not idiots. moriah Apr 2016 #106
Probably some runaway hero Apr 2016 #107
That poll shows how some people feel about Hillary. senz Apr 2016 #108
I think the Bernie supporters who decide not to vote will be a greater factor. frylock Apr 2016 #110
They are not wrong. basselope Apr 2016 #111
Trump represents everything wrong with the real Establishment. moriah Apr 2016 #113
Having worked along side many Bernie supporters these last several months... basselope Apr 2016 #171
Is this hatred directed specifically at Hillary, or at both Hill/Bill? TheDormouse Apr 2016 #200
The DNC in general. basselope Apr 2016 #218
Both Hillary and Donald runaway hero Apr 2016 #112
It could be about jobs Rass Apr 2016 #114
Eleven percent are projected to vote for Trump Samantha Apr 2016 #115
More will probably just stay home or vote 3rd party jfern Apr 2016 #116
March numbers for dems who voted republican: 50,000 in PA;20,000 MA; 60,000 in VA. snowy owl Apr 2016 #118
Well if Msnbc - the station that has breaking news to tell us that Trump sneezed - said it, it must jillan Apr 2016 #119
At least some of us have decided that voting for the lesser of two evils SheilaT Apr 2016 #120
Not much of a surprise ContinentalOp Apr 2016 #122
As Menken said, Beacool Apr 2016 #123
Since I am a Democrat and like progressive ideas, voting for Trump IS NOT going to Thinkingabout Apr 2016 #124
When one subtracts ... NanceGreggs Apr 2016 #126
It is probably a small group... Mike Nelson Apr 2016 #127
polls indicated that a chunk of Hillary supporters would vote for McCain quaker bill Apr 2016 #129
Many of us realize what a danger she poses to our country ChairmanAgnostic Apr 2016 #132
I can't think of a single reason why anyone with 3 firing neurons would vote for Trump. hobbit709 Apr 2016 #133
I will still vote for the Democratic nominee. I do think there will be many who B Calm Apr 2016 #135
I have a FB "friend" who is adamant about voting for Trump, if she's denied Bernie. no_hypocrisy Apr 2016 #138
One poll showed that about 10% of Sanders and 11% of Trump supporters would vote for the other pampango Apr 2016 #139
Most I've seen will vote for Jill Stein. I've seen 1 who said Trump pinebox Apr 2016 #141
In 2008 the PUMA's said they'd vote for McCain instead of Obama Larkspur Apr 2016 #144
I've seen tons of anecdotal evidence of this on Facebook justiceischeap Apr 2016 #146
Number 2: Why? runaway hero Apr 2016 #159
I am more than sure there are people who proclaim progressivism justiceischeap Apr 2016 #166
Of course but that's not even the majority of Bernie fans runaway hero Apr 2016 #168
My point though, is that most likely these people proclaiming they'll support Trump justiceischeap Apr 2016 #169
Clinton is the weakest dem in some time. runaway hero Apr 2016 #173
If she's the weakest Dem, why is she beating Bernie? justiceischeap Apr 2016 #174
Because 57 percent of America dislikes her runaway hero Apr 2016 #187
She beats Cruz too. justiceischeap Apr 2016 #214
She's within the margin of error with cruz, toss up runaway hero Apr 2016 #219
Don't get me wrong runaway hero Apr 2016 #220
While I don't do loyalty oaths, LWolf Apr 2016 #148
Oh my LaurenG Apr 2016 #149
This message was self-deleted by its author rjsquirrel Apr 2016 #152
Well that would certainly prove that they never cared about Sanders platform, just unhinged hatred. JTFrog Apr 2016 #154
Right workinclasszero Apr 2016 #176
well heaven05 Apr 2016 #157
Sanders supporters will vote Sanders. Attorney in Texas Apr 2016 #158
I guess those republicans will also vote for congress Rs to keep the slave $7 minimum federal wage Sunlei Apr 2016 #160
Truthiness is a powerful lure. mia Apr 2016 #161
Setting up the Excuses for her loss Ferd Berfel Apr 2016 #178
I don't know what has gotten in to me lately, but I have been saying these words a lot; bkkyosemite Apr 2016 #179
My vote is my own lmbradford Apr 2016 #180
based on responses from 931 active-duty troops, reservists and members of the National BlueStateLib Apr 2016 #185
Well my dauhter says... lmbradford Apr 2016 #186
I wonder how many people would wait in line for 5 hours to write a name in? TheDormouse Apr 2016 #199
lol bullshit JesterCS Apr 2016 #190
Not gonna happen. nt killbotfactory Apr 2016 #202
Nobody I know will vote for Trump many will write in Sanders others dr60omg Apr 2016 #211
Do you think if Sanders were leading that posts like this would be saying... Matt_R Apr 2016 #213
Aren't I clever and devious? tavernier May 2016 #234
It was an honest question. You opened pandoras box by making claims about Sanders supporters. Matt_R May 2016 #246
Trump is an open racist, and the Sanders people find that very offensive The Second Stone Apr 2016 #215
How's that "Tough shit lybrils, where ya gonna go?" thing working out for Camp Lying Liars? 99Forever Apr 2016 #216
This poll must have been trolled. apnu May 2016 #224
Nor do I, so that's reassuring. But I know tavernier May 2016 #233
I will never ever vote for Donald Trump, or Donald Drumpf either, for that matter. Never. nt Electric Monk May 2016 #225
Beauty of this thing hereforthevoting May 2016 #227
They are not wrong. It has been discussed quite at length and repeatedly here. Short story: silvershadow May 2016 #228
Yeap, the same faction of dems who hate Obama will support the guy who calls him Kenyan.... uponit7771 May 2016 #231
I'm not surprised eggman67 May 2016 #232
Not surprising. Sparkly May 2016 #235
Meh. There are idiots all over this country Stuckinthebush May 2016 #236
It says something about their character or lack there of. Demsrule86 May 2016 #237
I will not vote for Trump or Hillary. Tierra_y_Libertad May 2016 #239
Right you are. tavernier May 2016 #241
Closed primaries, please. We don't need Trump loving clowns picking ecstatic May 2016 #244

BootinUp

(47,197 posts)
1. Not surprised, in fact as I recall the Sanders campaign
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 08:44 PM
Apr 2016

long ago identified Trump supporters as possible cross-overs for them. So this would also work in reverse.

Response to BootinUp (Reply #1)

Baobab

(4,667 posts)
40. What will Hillary do to earn our votes?
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 09:41 PM
Apr 2016

Would she give up her support for coups and death squads in central America?

enid602

(8,658 posts)
54. nothing
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 10:10 PM
Apr 2016

I doubt if she has anythng to offer those who keep delving into endless conspiracy theories despite having suffered a complete and historic loss.

Demsrule86

(68,696 posts)
240. nada, zilch, zero etc
Wed May 4, 2016, 03:28 PM
May 2016

We won't offer deluded future Trump supporters anything. Certainly not ones that post false attacks against the Democratic nominee.

thucythucy

(8,087 posts)
84. Because Trump is obviously too gentle and moral a soul
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 12:10 AM
Apr 2016

to ever support death squads and coups.

(Do I really need the sarcasm thingy?)

Response to Baobab (Reply #40)

 

Ned_Devine

(3,146 posts)
78. You said it so much more nicely than I would have
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 11:44 PM
Apr 2016

The funny thing is, so many of these posters don't even realize how much they sound like assholes.

 

hellofromreddit

(1,182 posts)
79. Your response is representative of the tone from the Hillary campaign.
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 11:47 PM
Apr 2016

Condescension without substance. I'm sure that'll turn around bunches of voters.

 

senz

(11,945 posts)
104. "Condescension without substance." Sums them up perfectly.
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 01:39 AM
Apr 2016

Thank you.

What it most often reminds me of are psychological studies of those who think they're superior and never doubt their correctness on on any test but turn out to be wrong most of the time, while those who doubt themselves and don't feel superior are more frequently correct on tests.

Egotism seems well matched with mediocrity.

Live and Learn

(12,769 posts)
189. They weren't 'identified' but those of us on the ground found that when we talked to many Trump
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 01:56 PM
Apr 2016

supporters there main concern was honesty. It was quite simple to talk those Trump supporters into supporting Bernie instead based on both honesty and issues.

They will not support Clinton because they do not find her honest. I don't find Trump honest either but many of them do and apparently honesty is a big issue for Americans these days.

NJCher

(35,746 posts)
226. I talked to some, too
Wed May 4, 2016, 03:11 AM
May 2016

Honesty is the issue.

Also they thought there were enough checks and balances to keep trump in check.

Cher

Skwmom

(12,685 posts)
8. I'll make sure to tell my Black Neighbor who voted for Trump that he needs to stop with the White
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 08:49 PM
Apr 2016

Privilege.

polly7

(20,582 posts)
21. Gotta blame everything but the obvious.
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 09:02 PM
Apr 2016

Instead of trying to understand the reasons why so many of ALL races, gender, sexual orientation, religion, class are running from establishment candidates who represent everything they're against (even to those as disgusting as Trump) - it's just easier to claim some kind of bigotry - used since Sanders first began his campaign.

(But I'm guessing most of those using it actually do understand.)

kerry-is-my-prez

(8,133 posts)
165. It's a slooooow process. We must be sure to get the Republicans out of congress first. They
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 11:10 AM
Apr 2016

are most of the problem. The president can only veto and use the "bully pulpit" (make statements, hold press conferences) and use the media to get things done.

 

w4rma

(31,700 posts)
194. We *had* Congress, then Obama prioritized bailing out the banks instead of Main Street.
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 02:38 PM
Apr 2016

And so we lost Congress. Neoliberals are completely unable to keep Congress, because when they are leading the Democratic Party, they do shit like that. Clinton lost Congress for the first time since FDR when he signed NAFTA and decided to turn gun control into some type of wedge issue.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
85. I thought we stopped lying about Bernie supporters being all men?
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 12:18 AM
Apr 2016

The biggest dividing line for Bernie supporters is age, not gender or race. And most younger women can reproduce.

yardwork

(61,712 posts)
150. Wrong. The Supreme Court can undo Roe v Wade at any time.
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 09:55 AM
Apr 2016

And, states are passing extreme laws limiting women's access to abortions.

A Trump presidency would accelerate limits on women's access to health care, including abortions. Bet on it.

runaway hero

(835 posts)
151. I don't believe so
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 09:57 AM
Apr 2016

It's simply not his priority. HRC will definitely protect women's right but it's not her number one issue right now either. People want jobs and could care less. This election won't be about divisive social issues.

yardwork

(61,712 posts)
153. You're missing the point. Trump will appoint right wing Supreme Court justices.
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 10:01 AM
Apr 2016

That alone will do immeasurable damage to all kinds of rights.

runaway hero

(835 posts)
172. The majority of the country
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 12:17 PM
Apr 2016

Not just republicans. Even Hillary would deport. What should we do about it then?

runaway hero

(835 posts)
192. You should not be condoning criminal behaviour
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 02:18 PM
Apr 2016

You're in the minority and justifying a crime. Do you feel the same for robbery? Property destruction. Give and actual opinion and not spin.

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
203. You don't seem to understand how our Supreme Court works.
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 02:59 PM
Apr 2016

along with the Republican frontrunner. Trump will never be President, you better hope Republicans can cram Cruz down your throat.

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
208. "Politics Schmolitics", I don't give a shit about politics.
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 03:22 PM
Apr 2016
I just have a little fun feeding Trumpites

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
222. nope, that thirdway is bogus. I only donated to Sanders, but I'll vote for the D primary winner.
Sun May 1, 2016, 09:27 AM
May 2016

You're to obsessed on your cellphone and imagining 'tone' off message board text.

Bogus
bo·gus


/ˈbōɡəs/


adjective

adjective: bogus




not genuine or true; fake.

Response to seabeyond (Reply #2)

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
105. And lookie, an old white man sitting smack in the middle of that establishment attracting other
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 01:43 AM
Apr 2016

white and privilege.

Ya Aging, I get it.

 

AgingAmerican

(12,958 posts)
121. Sanders has always been an outsider
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 04:25 AM
Apr 2016

The establishment are insiders. The establishment exists to preserve white privilege.

 

pinebox

(5,761 posts)
140. The guy who criticizes booth parties is an insider?
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 08:37 AM
Apr 2016

Sounds like you want your cake and to eat it too.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
143. Sanders is the definition of establishment and an hoot was everyone tries to pretend otherwise.
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 08:57 AM
Apr 2016
 

AgingAmerican

(12,958 posts)
181. The Establishment: A small group that dominates a larger organization
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 01:14 PM
Apr 2016

Like congress and the government.

In the jargon of sociology, anyone who does not belong to The Establishment may be labelled an "outsider"

Oh, and the establishment exists to preserve white privilege.

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
182. As I said, the very definition of Sanders.
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 01:16 PM
Apr 2016

The Establishment: A small group that dominates a larger organization

Like congress and the government.

 

AgingAmerican

(12,958 posts)
183. A small group that dominates a larger organization, like the DNC
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 01:19 PM
Apr 2016

Or the congress. Sanders has always been an outsider, he does not belong to any dominant subgroups within the congress, as you well know. Robotically repeating Hill-speak does not make it so.

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
117. Right. White men, like those in your family, don't need medical care from the ACA.
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 02:32 AM
Apr 2016

But assuming for the moment that you are correct, perhaps the party ought to offer something that men ought to find attractive about us... it avoids exactly the problem you describe.

Matt_R

(456 posts)
212. I'm supprised that there hasn't nee a post made...
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 05:36 PM
Apr 2016

that states "Bernie Sanders is leading in the polls and Hillary Clinton supporters have vowed to vote for Trump before voting for Sanders."

 

silvershadow

(10,336 posts)
5. We'll not all of them are Democrats, so that's certainly the case...especially if we don't
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 08:49 PM
Apr 2016

welcome them to the party. Not sure why you are surprised? Or are you really?

 

CobaltBlue

(1,122 posts)
20. Thom Hartmann
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 09:01 PM
Apr 2016

Thom Hartmann likes this site; refers to it; and did a great job assessing this just recently (around the first week of April).…


lovemydog

(11,833 posts)
53. I welcome them to the party. What else do you feel
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 10:06 PM
Apr 2016

can be done to welcome them to the party? I'm sincerely interested in your thoughts. And since it's Friday eve, I'd like to say I hope you enjoy a great weekend.

 

silvershadow

(10,336 posts)
60. I am not asserting you or anyone else isn't or won't. I'm just saying that, like it or not,
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 10:19 PM
Apr 2016

that's kind of where we are at the moment it would seem. I have always been an FDR, Union labor Democrat. For my own reasons, I chose to support Sanders. Being that I am a Berner, I am exposed to the entire subset of Berners who, for whatever reason, are NOT currently Democrats. I interact with them. Right now, there are a not insignificant number who claim to be voting other directions if he's not our nominee.

While I would *like to be able to have them in all the end, perhaps we won't.

PS: I'm not gonna leave the party over it, I wouldn't think because that would be even worse. Better to fix things from within. Without critical mass there is ZERO chance to fix things, as the Greens and Indy's and everyone else has learned.

Thank you for the weekend wishes. I wish you a nice weekend as well!

INdemo

(6,994 posts)
67. I think we will see a new Progressive Party Emerge
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 10:41 PM
Apr 2016

and it will the younger,the New Generation that will build this party.
It is very real and a strong possibility.These new eligible voters have the power to do so because they have the force to build this new political party.

 

silvershadow

(10,336 posts)
72. I suspect that could be true. I'm staying right here to fight for The New Deal and Union labor.
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 11:20 PM
Apr 2016

Oh, and against Oligarchy.

INdemo

(6,994 posts)
75. True but I think the new Progressive party will be a strong advocate for organized labor
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 11:38 PM
Apr 2016

Being a Union member for over 40 years I can honestly say the Union leaders at the top have managed to weaken General membership force. They install local leaders (that are no longer elected by the local membership) and they call the shots.'
Just like the political endorsements..those didn't come from the over all membership but from executive boards that know which side of their bread they want buttered.
I think the New Deal Democrats are about to become a force and the so called Democratic Party with their Republican leadership will be left in the dust holding the DNC sign while the new Progressive Party revives the party of FDR.

A note about union members though..I know many members that think Trump is the man .Yes they are willing to vote all their benefits away and pull the lever for Trump..I tell them its pretty stupid but what do I know.

Squinch

(51,021 posts)
70. You're sad we're not doing enough to attract those Trump voters? Which policies, exactly, are you
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 10:57 PM
Apr 2016

willing to go "more Trumpy" on?

And I though both parties were the same?

I get so confused by you guys.

 

Jitter65

(3,089 posts)
10. Doesn't surprise me. Most of his supporters one from long Independents and folk who haven't
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 08:51 PM
Apr 2016

voted for a long time. They were not going to vote for the Democrat anyway.

Jack Bone

(2,023 posts)
41. That's the point!!
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 09:42 PM
Apr 2016

Many feel, on some issues, Trump IS more progressive than Hills....My Wife, The lovely Mrs. Jack Bone...thinks this on trade and currency manipulation...Trump's more progressive on those....me, I'll prob'ly just Write -In Albert Gore Jr. once again.

 

La Lioness Priyanka

(53,866 posts)
43. lol. have you seen his tax policy? do social issues which impact the rest of us so much
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 09:44 PM
Apr 2016

count so very little for you people?

disgusting

Jack Bone

(2,023 posts)
48. I'm not voting for him...my wifey might
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 09:55 PM
Apr 2016

I'm voting for Al Gore!....it's the A...B...C!!

Anybody But Clinton!

Petrushka

(3,709 posts)
229. My daughter and a some others will be writing in "Bernie Sanders."
Wed May 4, 2016, 03:30 AM
May 2016

After considerable thought,I have decided: If Hillary gets the nomination,
I shall vote down-ticket only--unless I change my mind and decide to
go along with my daughter.


Edited to add: FWIW: I was a Hillary supporter in '08. Thanks to her
record since then, she's lost this olde biddy to Bernie in '16.

Andy823

(11,495 posts)
13. Those who make such a claim
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 08:52 PM
Apr 2016

Were never going to vote for a Democrat in the first place. All the BS about voting for Trump, the green party or every writing in Bernie's name, is nothing more that right wing trolls pretending to be "real" supporters of Bernie's. Sure some very gullible Democrats may jump ship, not vote for Hillary, or just stay home, but I hardly think they would vote for Trump.

DJ13

(23,671 posts)
90. Were never going to vote for a Democrat in the first place
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 12:31 AM
Apr 2016

This is NOT about party, its solely about voting AGAINST the Status Quo.

Regardless of party, people are tired of business as usual in our government.

By the way, thats a growing sentiment across the country (world, actually), the worst thing that could happen, happened.

Hillary is the ultimate representation of that business as usual sentiment.

In this climate even if she wins she will lose as the country watches her governance through the lens of that distrust and outright anger at business as usual.

madokie

(51,076 posts)
14. This old Bernie supporter
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 08:52 PM
Apr 2016

ain't even going to entertain the thought of voting for tRump, you can bet on that.

 

Lizzie Poppet

(10,164 posts)
15. Well...THIS Sanders supporter would never do that
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 08:52 PM
Apr 2016

But Bernie has some support that isn't much like me (hard-left...socialist, in fact) at all. There are moderate independents who are attracted strongly to an outsider, to someone not part of the entrenched powers-that-be, part of the (conspicuously failing) status-quo. They'd rather have Bernie than Trump...but Trump over anyone else in the race. I don't agree with this contingent's reasoning...but I understand them.

The majority of Bernie supporters not willing to vote for Hillary will, I suspect, either vote for Jill Stein, write in Bernie, or simply not vote for president. I'm undecided which of those options I'll be picking. Not that it matters in my non-swing stare. Thanks for nothing, Electoral Anachronism.

astrophuss42

(290 posts)
30. Yup, we've got to turn not mattering
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 09:23 PM
Apr 2016

Into privilege for being able to vote for whom we please. I'm pretty set, myself. Open to hearing arguments for voting HRC but nothing tangible has been brought forth.

 

CobaltBlue

(1,122 posts)
17. Realistically
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 08:53 PM
Apr 2016

No presidential candidate—winner or loser—gets 100 percent of the vote nationwide from same-party, self-identified Rs or Ds. The 2016 nominees will each get a percentage of crossover voters. Which ever one gets more—while performing stronger with the same-party vote—will win.

politicaljunkie41910

(3,335 posts)
18. Assuming that the numbers are correct. If you give in to blackmail once, you'll be
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 08:57 PM
Apr 2016

giving into it again and again. You've all seen where Bernie's demands just keep on changing and there's no guarantee that if she gave into all the current demands he can deliver the votes of his supporters and there is no way of proof that they in fact vote for her after HRC and the DNC gave him everything he asked for up to and including at the DNC Convention.

Hillary can always go home and enjoy the rest of her life with her husband and grandkids. She will have a fulfilled life whether or not she is president. Bernie is old and if Trump wins, there is a good chance that they keep both Houses of Congress. What will Bernie have that is fulfilling should he chose to return to his position as a Senator if the GOP is in control for the next 4 years. I can guarantee you that the Dems will make sure that he pays by losing any seniority or coveted committee assignment he currently holds. I know I would do it if it happened to me. By the time the next presidential campaign rolled around, there will be younger and more abled Democratic candidates ready to assume the throne than Bernie.

INdemo

(6,994 posts)
69. I dont believe you know what Bernie Sanders will do.
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 10:54 PM
Apr 2016

As far as being rejected by the "Democrats' in Congress..well real Democrats will welcome Bernie Sanders and I dont believe he really gives a shit about the Republican Lites,the Corporate owned Democrats.
We found out real early who these so called Democrats are and it really doesn't matter at this point which party has the Majority,its the Corporate mafia that pull the puppet strings and the ones that obey every command include many of the Democrats you might be refering to.
Remember the Democrats had control of both houses not long ago and they did what the Republicans wanted so nothing has has changed.
No one or any President will will walk over Bernie Sanders so...obviously you definitely don't know what you are talking about.

politicaljunkie41910

(3,335 posts)
74. And guess what, I'm not going to lose any sleep wondering what Bernie Sanders will do either.
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 11:33 PM
Apr 2016

I have a life outside of this board and it doesn't revolve around name calling and cursing at people I know nothing about. I have an opinion and you have an opinion as does everyone else who posts on this board. But in the grand scheme of things, none of them amount to more than a hill of beans.

Barack_America

(28,876 posts)
19. I don't doubt this.
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 08:58 PM
Apr 2016

There are a lot of anti-establishment independents this year.

With Hillary as the nominee, all we can do is hope they stay home.

 

Codeine

(25,586 posts)
22. Why does this surprise anyone?
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 09:04 PM
Apr 2016

It's a fanbase built around lashing out and inchoate rage. Expecting that sort of energy to be reasonable and logical in the face of losing is unrealistic.

Red Mountain

(1,737 posts)
24. Sigh
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 09:14 PM
Apr 2016

Or honest differences of opinion.

Your post does little to bring the party together to support our eventual candidate. Actually, seems like you are trying to drive even deeper wedges into the party.

Why is that?

tavernier

(12,406 posts)
142. I never said it was weird;
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 08:51 AM
Apr 2016

I've just never heard it before. I like learning words that are new to me. No sarcasm intended.

 

bigwillq

(72,790 posts)
25. Some might, most won't.
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 09:15 PM
Apr 2016

Some Kasich, Cruz, Rubio, Fiorina, Carson supporters will vote for Clinton. Most won't.

Some may switch up, but probably not enough to swing either way.

 

HooptieWagon

(17,064 posts)
27. Same % as voted for Bush in 2000.
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 09:18 PM
Apr 2016

But a large number voting third party, and Clinton loses Independants badly.

 

Android3.14

(5,402 posts)
29. After the despicable way she has behaved and the vile behavior of many
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 09:21 PM
Apr 2016

of her followers, it is still unlikely that Sander's supporters will vote for Trump, but many-many of them will not vote for her.

I know I feel that way right now.

 

MissDeeds

(7,499 posts)
68. +1000
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 10:43 PM
Apr 2016

Her behavior and that of her supporters is not serving her well. She has succeeded in alienating many voters who she will need IF, god forbid, she wins the nomination.

Xyzse

(8,217 posts)
98. I am not there yet. Was almost there, but no...
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 12:43 AM
Apr 2016

As for me, I will not vote for any Republican at all.

I must admit, I've been very tempted to just leave the Presidential election alone. I am pretty sure I won't do that, but good god, I am so tempted.

 

highprincipleswork

(3,111 posts)
32. Look, the Democratic Party can work 2 include Bernie supporters or it can shit on them as many DUers
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 09:24 PM
Apr 2016

do right here.

You're a human being, I presume.

How do you act when people shit on you? They have free will. They will vote for Hillary or Trump or not at all.

The bigger question is whether Hillary and the party will choose to accept and include a very large number of fired up people who only want things that Democrats have traditionally wanted.

 

mythology

(9,527 posts)
217. That goes both ways
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 06:20 PM
Apr 2016

If you think some Sanders supporters haven't said horrible things here, you either are blinded by bias or aren't looking.

 

highprincipleswork

(3,111 posts)
221. I am well aware that both sides have said nasty things, but that is not the point that is being made
Sun May 1, 2016, 02:55 AM
May 2016

here. This isn't some childish game of tit for tat. This is the future of our party, either coming together or splitting apart.

If Hillary and her supporters are the winners they like to think they are, they would be well advised to be magnanimous and welcoming, rather than bitter, vengeful, spiteful, arrogant, dismissive.

That's what real winners do, and that's why they win. Because in the end they actually win others around to their side.

Other people try to result to bullying and fear tactics. Like "vote for us because the Republican candidate is SCARY".

in the presence of people honestly trying to find ethical and cool solutions to our very real problems, those tactics are not likely to be the final answer.

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
34. For every one "Bernie voter" that won't vote for Hillary ...
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 09:32 PM
Apr 2016

... well get ten reasonable independent voters. That's a fair trade!

Blanks

(4,835 posts)
36. The candidates will debate...
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 09:34 PM
Apr 2016

Until the first debate, I wouldn't even begin to speculate on what demographics vote for which party.

The demographic that I expect Trump to lose is republican women. My female republican friends on Facebook despise Trump, and he hasn't even debated Hillary yet.

I have many redneck friends and family members that are Trump supporters, all men. Trump is gonna say something between now and November that will solidify opposition to him. I'm sure that's what the republicans fear. He will say something and not even know what he's done, it is the way of the world.

DemocratSinceBirth

(99,714 posts)
52. Trump is an anti-semite and a racist.
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 10:03 PM
Apr 2016

He said he prefers Jewish accountants over African American ones because the former are better with money. He managed to call Jews money grubbing and African Americans not intelligent enough to responsibly handle money.

Response to desmiller (Reply #38)

Ilsa

(61,698 posts)
39. I bet most of them change their minds by November.
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 09:40 PM
Apr 2016

The stakes are too high when considering HRC vs DT (or Cruz) as president.

I'll be voting for the Democratic nominee in November.

Yurovsky

(2,064 posts)
46. News flash... Not everyone is engaged and informed...
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 09:48 PM
Apr 2016

there are millions of Americans - Left, Right, moderate, or independent - who are just plain fed up with an economy that is geared towards fucking them over to enrich the 1%. They may not know who is behind it specifically, but in general they probably figure it's the folks running either of the 2 parties... Or both.

There may be folks who who are drawn to just the vague notion of someone who isn't establishment. Maybe they don't fit nicely into traditional notions of right/left. Some, maybe not a huge number but some, might have been for Bernie but now Trump looks like the only outsider. And Trump has done a pretty amazing job of just talking in economic generalities, promising to improve the lot of those left out of the 1%ers Gold Rush. Of course it's all bullshit, but some will bite. Feel free to look down your nose at them in typical Clintonian fashion, but mark my words they will never vote for HRC.

Hillary is just not a likeable person. Never will be.

TheDormouse

(1,168 posts)
197. Preach it.
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 02:48 PM
Apr 2016

Except for the "Hillary is just not a likeable person. Never will be."

I think she actually can be quite charming at times. It's a pity that, for whatever reasons, it's hard for her to let that side shine through all the time.

Yurovsky

(2,064 posts)
223. If I could amend my comment...
Sun May 1, 2016, 10:20 AM
May 2016

I would add an anecdote from a retired flight engineer on Air Force 2 that I met a few years ago while doing a little fishing on the Indian River in Florida (snook is amazing, btw). He spent much of the 1990s flying VP Gore & HRC around (when she wasn't with Bill on AF1), and while he didn't really care for the VP (called him condescending and rude), he painted a very different picture of HRC than how she comes across in the media and before large crowds. He said she was always very polite, actually got to know the crew by name, and in general came off as a kind of folksy product of her Midwestern roots. And this was from a guy who self-described as a Republican albeit pretty moderate (yes, some of them may still exist despite the GOP's efforts to convert them to the extremist wing of the GOP which has been the majority since the 1980s).

So I guess my point is she may well be likeable one on one or in a small group. But when she gets on stage, and starts lecturing progressives on how unrealistic it is to hold Wall Street & corporations accountable, or tries to defend her mind-numbing greed (just how many millions would it take to satisfy her?), well, that's the truly unlikeable HRC that I and many others simply can't stomach. And the sad part of it is that she had plenty of money. Her & Bill's book deals would have quickly erased their legal debts, and between the two of them were guaranteed federal pensions in excess of $600k/year for life along with numerous other perks (staff, secret service protection, etc). Bernie has shown that you don't need to sell out to fund a campaign, and had she simply not gone all-in with Wall Street & corporate America, her other transgressions during the 1990s and in the Senate might have been tolerated by progressives.

But she and her advisors have chosen to confront progressives and paint them as naive and unrealistic. I think it's pretty clear from the number of states Bernie has won that progressivism - even when facing an opponent with almost every conceivable advantage - holds great appeal within the Democratic Party and among independents. And Bernie... How could anybody outside the 1% NOT like him???

ecstatic

(32,733 posts)
245. They are so uninformed and gullible.
Wed May 4, 2016, 11:25 PM
May 2016

I won't have any sympathy if or when they get the "outsider" they've dreamed of.

 

IdaBriggs

(10,559 posts)
50. "Throw ALL the bums out!" is what I hear from Trump supporters.
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 10:01 PM
Apr 2016

Last edited Sat Apr 30, 2016, 12:06 AM - Edit history (1)

If it looks like an incumbent, they will be voting them OUT.

Bernie was the sane alternative. Put up the Ultra Insider and I predict President Trump.

It's not business as usual where you lie and get away with it.

How many ways does it need to be explained? People. Want. Change.

 

CentralCoaster

(1,163 posts)
82. We had a nice run. Obama lifted us in the eyes of other nations. So, now that's over.
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 11:58 PM
Apr 2016

All but one person I have talked to about this don't care, if it's Hillary as the nominee they'll vote Green or even take Trump over seeing her take our party and our country down.

I can't blame them, though I don't have a plan for what to do, myself.

 

Trajan

(19,089 posts)
51. 'MSNBC said .... '
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 10:03 PM
Apr 2016

The media said ...

The billionaire controlled media said ....

The fucked up media said ...

C'mon ...

marlakay

(11,498 posts)
76. I dont know anyone who will do that
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 11:41 PM
Apr 2016

I know a few who are voting for Jill but none of my friends would vote for him.

All of my friends are big on the environment and antiwar.

Agnosticsherbet

(11,619 posts)
77. Anyone who votes for Trump approves of his racist, bigoted, misogynistic, totalitatarian
Fri Apr 29, 2016, 11:43 PM
Apr 2016

policies. That is what they want.

Well, they are doomed for disappointment.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
86. As in every Presidential, the Democrats who vote Republican are far more likely to
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 12:21 AM
Apr 2016

be the right of the Party, not the left. That was true of Nixon Democrats, Bush Democrats and Reagan Democrats. There may, however, be so-called "third" party voting by the left.

snowy owl

(2,145 posts)
88. MSNBC should worry about that given their abuse of Bernie in the campaign.
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 12:28 AM
Apr 2016

If such a thing should happen and any true liberal votes for Trump, they may have contributed.

ucrdem

(15,512 posts)
93. Possibly but at least as many GOP voters, women for example, will vote for Hillary.
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 12:37 AM
Apr 2016

Trump is not popular with women it appears. And believe it or not there are a lot of Latino Republicans who probably won't vote for him either.

0rganism

(23,971 posts)
95. there will be a few, but it's going to be a small minority
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 12:39 AM
Apr 2016

some independent voters aligned with Sanders only because he was perceived as less-affiliated with a political establishment, some because he drew big exciting crowds. the only other such person in the race is Trump. i wouldn't read too much into their "defection" ideologically, except they really hate both major political parties. suspect some will try the Trump thing on for a few weeks and find it doesn't fit too well.

Algernon Moncrieff

(5,790 posts)
97. I'm sure you can find some people who will say that, but I doubt it will be widespread
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 12:42 AM
Apr 2016

More likely, they'll write in Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, Jimmy Buffett, Steph Curry, etc.

I will say I've seen a meme on Facebook along these lines: Sanders supporter argues we'd be better off with 4 years of Trump so we can get 8 years of Elizabeth Warren in 2020. Flawed at many levels -- including that there's not a shred of evidence she wants to run.

moriah

(8,311 posts)
106. I've said it before, Sanders supporters are not idiots.
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 01:48 AM
Apr 2016

Even if they end up being unable to ingest enough anti-emetics before and intoxicants after to vote for the Nominee, they won't vote for the Hair.

runaway hero

(835 posts)
107. Probably some
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 01:49 AM
Apr 2016

But not a lot.


We need to unify. Any comments about who cares are just more noise and those people are part of the problem. There will not be a blowout nor will Hillary or Bernie for that matter win 400 EVs so let's get to it.

 

basselope

(2,565 posts)
111. They are not wrong.
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 01:54 AM
Apr 2016

MANY Bernie supporters main motivation is striking out against the establishment.

Clinton IS the establishment.

Trump is not.

If that was their main motivation, Trump is next logical vote.

moriah

(8,311 posts)
113. Trump represents everything wrong with the real Establishment.
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 02:04 AM
Apr 2016

A billionaire who thinks that his running his companies into bankruptcy and profiting off of it and the workers who lost jobs, selling steaks, trading up his wives like one would trade in for the newest model of car, and so used to not having any criticism that he sues someone who paints him as a "grower" rather than a "shower", qualifies him for the Presidency.

People may call it a logical fallacy, the "no true Scotsman", but I refuse to believe that anyone who voted for Bernie in the primary because they believed in his message would ever vote for Trump.

 

basselope

(2,565 posts)
171. Having worked along side many Bernie supporters these last several months...
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 12:05 PM
Apr 2016

I can assure you the "no true Scotsman" is a logical fallacy.

The flaw in the logic is the assumption that they believe in "all parts" of Bernie's message. I know people who voted for Bernie who didn't want single payer health care or free college, but really wanted Super Pacs to go away and felt that was the key issue. They didn't worry about single payer and free college b/c they felt he couldn't get that through congress... but they want the end of the people being influenced.

There are also Bernie supporters who dislike Clinton so much they will vote AGAINST her, even if it means voting for Trump.

TheDormouse

(1,168 posts)
200. Is this hatred directed specifically at Hillary, or at both Hill/Bill?
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 02:52 PM
Apr 2016

--I'm referring to where you said, "There are also Bernie supporters who dislike Clinton so much they will vote AGAINST her, even if it means voting for Trump."

 

basselope

(2,565 posts)
218. The DNC in general.
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 06:39 PM
Apr 2016

The people I have met with and worked with are so tried of the establishment. The democrats of capitulation and Hillary shows no sign of being any different.

Some of them were Obama supporters in 2008, who sat out 2012 out of disgust.

runaway hero

(835 posts)
112. Both Hillary and Donald
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 01:56 AM
Apr 2016

Are the two most unlikable candidates. This will either be a high turnout or low turnout election. Low if people think Hillary will win. High if Donald is within the margin of error by labor day.

If Kasich or Rubio come out of the convention? Hillary is in serious trouble. Hillary can beat Donald.

 

Rass

(112 posts)
114. It could be about jobs
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 02:25 AM
Apr 2016

For some folks it's all about jobs. Hillary encourages outsourcing jobs to other countries with slave/cheap labor while Americans become homeless. Hillary will always support free trade despite her public statements. Trump talks tough against outsourcing. Whether he will deliver is another issue.

The U.S. has lost many jobs and continues to allow companies to run off to other countries. At the very least there should be some tax and/or allow abandoned employees to take over the facilities as a cooperative.

As someone with a technical background I have had the pleasure of attending job interviews where the interviewer would base my rate like someone from India. Then, there is the pleasure of managing projects outsourced to other countries when there are perfectly good candidates locally. If it wasn't for Trump's racist stance (I am a minority) and far right ideology I would vote for him just to have a higher chance at a better wage. I know he is full of shit but so is Hillary. Being deep in college debt, working a low wage with no benefits and not completing my inventions can be demoralizing. The continuation of outsourcing manufacturing jobs will only make Americans poorer.

Samantha

(9,314 posts)
115. Eleven percent are projected to vote for Trump
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 02:30 AM
Apr 2016

I thought it was amazing too. But after thinking about it, "Sanders supporters" include some first-time voters and people who are looking for anti-establishment leadership. That gives them only two options - Sanders or Trump. So maybe it is not surprising if that is the main thing those voters are seeking. In other words, they might not necessarily be traditional Dems.

Sam

snowy owl

(2,145 posts)
118. March numbers for dems who voted republican: 50,000 in PA;20,000 MA; 60,000 in VA.
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 02:33 AM
Apr 2016

Maybe more numbers in more states out there. On Maher tonight the conversation with Thomas Frank discussed the fact that the party has left working class Americans behind. These Bernie supporters could be a matter of voters going where they feel included. Or they may have been Republicans who switched over for the Bern and now are switching back. We need to know more.

jillan

(39,451 posts)
119. Well if Msnbc - the station that has breaking news to tell us that Trump sneezed - said it, it must
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 02:37 AM
Apr 2016

be true.

 

SheilaT

(23,156 posts)
120. At least some of us have decided that voting for the lesser of two evils
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 04:20 AM
Apr 2016

is still voting for evil, so some of us might decide not to vote for an evil of any kind.

Personally, as a strong Bernie supporter, I will not vote for Trump. But I don't want to vote for "the lesser of two evils" either. I'm done with that bullshit. If I can't vote for the person I actually want to win, then why should I vote at all for that office?

ContinentalOp

(5,356 posts)
122. Not much of a surprise
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 04:31 AM
Apr 2016

They've already bought into all of the right wing smears and conspiracy theories against Clinton, and a good chunk of Sanders supporters are mindlessly "anti-establishment". Aka "independents" who are going to vote for anyone who feeds into their anger regardless of the actual issues at stake.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
124. Since I am a Democrat and like progressive ideas, voting for Trump IS NOT going to
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 04:56 AM
Apr 2016

Result in progressive ideas getting passed. I will vote for the DNC nominee just as I have in every presidential election. Could never imagine voting for Trump or Cruz, both are past evil and both are wrong wrong wrong.

NanceGreggs

(27,819 posts)
126. When one subtracts ...
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 05:05 AM
Apr 2016

... the "Bernie supporters" who were never going to vote for him if he was the nominee anyway, it really doesn't matter, does it?

Mike Nelson

(9,968 posts)
127. It is probably a small group...
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 05:45 AM
Apr 2016

...very small, I think. There are a much more significant number of Bernie supporters who will "never, never, never!" vote for Hillary, as they've stated here on DU. I believe them. I don't think it will matter, though; when it moves to the general election, Trump support will reveal itself as low.

quaker bill

(8,224 posts)
129. polls indicated that a chunk of Hillary supporters would vote for McCain
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 06:11 AM
Apr 2016

at about this time in the process in 2008. At the time, these polls about all the unhappy Democratic Party women were cited as a reason McCain picked Caribou Barbie for VP. This water was way under the bridge and gone by November.

ChairmanAgnostic

(28,017 posts)
132. Many of us realize what a danger she poses to our country
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 07:23 AM
Apr 2016

Is it that unusual for us to look at alternatives? She is a menace. She will cause WWIII. She will usher in yet another Wall Street ripoff of Africa, then force us to bail them out again. And she will sell out social security to them so they can profit off of it while ripping us off yet again.

 

B Calm

(28,762 posts)
135. I will still vote for the Democratic nominee. I do think there will be many who
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 07:29 AM
Apr 2016

will vote for Trump if Hillary doesn't adopt some of Bernie's platform. Bernie supporters believe conservatives are taking over the party of the working man and probably more than a few would vote for Trump hoping it will wake up the DNC.

no_hypocrisy

(46,202 posts)
138. I have a FB "friend" who is adamant about voting for Trump, if she's denied Bernie.
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 08:16 AM
Apr 2016

That's bad enough. What's really distressing is when challenged, she admits that she knows "nothing at all" about Trump and still will vote for him. She hasn't posted anything about Trump; it's just a knee-jerk choice.

It's the psychology of the American Voter in 2016 that I finding disconcerting and distressing.

pampango

(24,692 posts)
139. One poll showed that about 10% of Sanders and 11% of Trump supporters would vote for the other
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 08:20 AM
Apr 2016

party. If true they would kind of cancel each other out. And ~90% of each would support their party's nominee.

 

pinebox

(5,761 posts)
141. Most I've seen will vote for Jill Stein. I've seen 1 who said Trump
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 08:43 AM
Apr 2016

I think what many Hillary supporters aren't getting is that people are fed up with politicians.
The whole mantra of "no more Clinton's, no more Bush's". Millions of Bernie supporters will never vote for Hillary because they can't stand her and see her as a liar. It is what it is.

 

Larkspur

(12,804 posts)
144. In 2008 the PUMA's said they'd vote for McCain instead of Obama
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 08:58 AM
Apr 2016

that did not happen either or it was such a small contingent that it did not register at the polls.

justiceischeap

(14,040 posts)
146. I've seen tons of anecdotal evidence of this on Facebook
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 09:01 AM
Apr 2016

I've read many a comment from Sanders supporters say that if Clinton gets the nom, they'll vote for Trump.

This leaves me to draw a couple of conclusions:
1) These supporters aren't actually Democrats, they're either Independents, Liberatarians, or Republicans posing as Sanders supporters
2) They are sexist
3) They really are Trump supporters posing and acting like Sanders supporters
4) Dumb asses who have no real idea of what is at stake this election (The US Supreme Court)

justiceischeap

(14,040 posts)
166. I am more than sure there are people who proclaim progressivism
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 11:26 AM
Apr 2016

but are still sexist and feel a woman shouldn't be running the United States. I've seen my fair share of that too.

justiceischeap

(14,040 posts)
169. My point though, is that most likely these people proclaiming they'll support Trump
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 11:46 AM
Apr 2016

aren't and never were actual Democrats and most likely never intended to vote for Bernie in the first place.

It would appear that the GOP really doesn't want to run against Clinton... all you have to do is pay attention to see that. They'd be very happy to run against Sanders, because I think they're under the impression they can beat him easily. So why not encourage young republicans to show Sanders support (online) and try and sway the masses of social media that he has more support than he actually does. If I were a campaign strategist, I would do exactly that. Then you have the Libertarians that any time they hear "legalize pot," they support that candidate. Those same Libertarians would never support Clinton (unless she was for 100% decriminalization of pot) but I could see them support Trump because he's outside the "mainstream."

Anyway, I think a lot of Sanders support we see from the so-called "BernieBros" have never been and never will be Democrats.

runaway hero

(835 posts)
173. Clinton is the weakest dem in some time.
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 12:19 PM
Apr 2016

If they had Rubio, Ryan or Kasich out in front, she would lose. And they could still run out of the convention. Everyone has to listen to the people imo. There is a clamouring for anti establishment for a reason. Clinton, who is a woman, just represents what everyone hates about career politicians. Same with Jeb!

justiceischeap

(14,040 posts)
174. If she's the weakest Dem, why is she beating Bernie?
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 12:24 PM
Apr 2016

Seriously? Why are polls saying that if Clinton gets the nomination, she'll trounce Trump? Seriously? In what logical mind is she the weakest candidate? You may not like her politics, you may not like her personally or you may have even bought into the decades long smear campaign that the GOP has been conducting, but the fact of the matter is, she's winning and that makes her the stronger candidate.

runaway hero

(835 posts)
187. Because 57 percent of America dislikes her
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 01:51 PM
Apr 2016

That has nothing to do with the (mostly) democrat only primary. And if she can only win against Trump, what does that say? She needs the worst GOP candidate to come out to win? What kind of election is this then?

justiceischeap

(14,040 posts)
214. She beats Cruz too.
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 05:53 PM
Apr 2016

No matter the candidate she wins. I don't know what polls you've been looking at but if they say 57% of the population is planning to vote against her, then I'm guessing those polls are right-leaning.

runaway hero

(835 posts)
219. She's within the margin of error with cruz, toss up
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 07:08 PM
Apr 2016

She only beats trump out right and even then Bernie beats him by more. She loses to Kasich, Kasich loses to bernie but is within the margin of error, so toss up.


All RCP averages.


You should hope Kasich or Rubio don't come out of the convention.

LWolf

(46,179 posts)
148. While I don't do loyalty oaths,
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 09:28 AM
Apr 2016

I openly and sincerely assure you that I will not be voting for Trump no matter what happens.

Sanders, though, pulls in a really broad range of people that Clinton does not. That's why he beats Trump by much larger margins than HRC does, if she is able to beat him at all. So I'm sure there are some Rs and more conservative independents out there who would vote for Trump rather than Clinton. That's just one of the many reasons he'd be a better nominee than she.

LaurenG

(24,841 posts)
149. Oh my
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 09:33 AM
Apr 2016

That sounds like puma talk. We ALL remember how those nasty pumas tried to make Obama loose to the republican nominee. Bernie supporters aren't Pumas but don't be surprised if they just write him in and vote down ticket.

Response to tavernier (Original post)

 

JTFrog

(14,274 posts)
154. Well that would certainly prove that they never cared about Sanders platform, just unhinged hatred.
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 10:03 AM
Apr 2016

Not surprised to say the least.

mia

(8,363 posts)
161. Truthiness is a powerful lure.
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 10:29 AM
Apr 2016

Some folks, I imagine, are tired of being misled by dishonest politicians.

Ferd Berfel

(3,687 posts)
178. Setting up the Excuses for her loss
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 12:36 PM
Apr 2016

This is just the M$M and others(?) setting the stage. They already know she will lose but they are too afraid of Change to do anything else.

They need a scape-goat and it will be Sanders and his supporters.

It won't matter that she will never get the independents and that the republican base will come out in droves just to vote against her.

The fact that she has not earned votes from the Left won't matter either because , as we've seen here today - It's the Duty of Every Sanders Supporter to Vote for Hillary] http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1869880
regarless of whether she represents the values of any Sanders Supporters

and

Clinton Camp says She's Been Forced to the Left Enough Already





bkkyosemite

(5,792 posts)
179. I don't know what has gotten in to me lately, but I have been saying these words a lot;
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 12:44 PM
Apr 2016

This poll is Bull Shit.

lmbradford

(517 posts)
180. My vote is my own
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 01:13 PM
Apr 2016

I will either stay home or write Bernie in. I will not vote to send my daughter into corporate war over profits. Why do you think the military supports Bernie so strongly? Honestly, i think Trump is a safer choice to make in regards to my daughters life. And frankly, that is why i am so disgusted with the Democratic Party. Lives are at stake. The D next to her name means nothing to me without the D principles.

BlueStateLib

(937 posts)
185. based on responses from 931 active-duty troops, reservists and members of the National
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 01:24 PM
Apr 2016
The results — based on responses from 931 active-duty troops, reservists and members of the National Guard — do not offer a scientific status of military voting preferences.
http://www.militarytimes.com/story/military/election/2016/03/14/military-times-election-survey-donald-trump-bernie-sanders/81767560/

lmbradford

(517 posts)
186. Well my dauhter says...
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 01:42 PM
Apr 2016

She doesnt know any Clinton or Trump supporters. Most everyone she knows in the AF is a Bernie supporter. That is primarily bc of his views and judgement on war.

dr60omg

(283 posts)
211. Nobody I know will vote for Trump many will write in Sanders others
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 04:01 PM
Apr 2016

will vote for Stein and still others will not vote at all ...

Matt_R

(456 posts)
213. Do you think if Sanders were leading that posts like this would be saying...
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 05:45 PM
Apr 2016

"Clinton supporters vow to not vote for Sanders, and instead support Trump"

Yeah exactly, more divide and conquer.

On the bright side you have the Sanders supporters on this thread on the defensive.

tavernier

(12,406 posts)
234. Aren't I clever and devious?
Wed May 4, 2016, 02:36 PM
May 2016

How did you see through my elaborate ruse?


sigh.

I'll be so happy when this election paranoia finally ends, and not every statement or question in a post has dark hidden motives and meanings.



Matt_R

(456 posts)
246. It was an honest question. You opened pandoras box by making claims about Sanders supporters.
Thu May 5, 2016, 03:06 AM
May 2016

the sarcasm was the four words "On the bright side"
See you even have me on the defensive. I still think H. R. Clinton is more conservative than any democrat I've seen in my lifetime. I recall a Joe Lierberman who joined the Democrat party because it was more expedient for him. I see the same from Clinton. She only joined the big D party because it was the best way to the white house for her, and now many many year later she gets the chance to be there a third term.

I CAN'T/WON'T vote for a small government, corporate focused candidate. The only way forward is to protect the least of our population, and I'm speaking globally. We are all in this together.


When common sense about a failed system is considered paranoia, we have failed. You can vote for the same failed Regan policies Clinton has proposed. But for me I will vote for Hope and Change for the third time. Maybe this time, who knows.

 

The Second Stone

(2,900 posts)
215. Trump is an open racist, and the Sanders people find that very offensive
Sat Apr 30, 2016, 06:00 PM
Apr 2016

and they will not vote for such a bigot. All will actually go to the polls to vote against the bigot. They are just angry now and trolling the pollsters.

apnu

(8,759 posts)
224. This poll must have been trolled.
Sun May 1, 2016, 10:26 AM
May 2016

I know of no Sanders supporter considering Trump.

Not a single one. Be it here on DU, or Facebook, or Reddit, nor within my personal circle.

tavernier

(12,406 posts)
233. Nor do I, so that's reassuring. But I know
Wed May 4, 2016, 02:21 PM
May 2016

plenty who loathe Hillary. My guess is that when the time comes to hit the button, many will either plug nose and vote dem, or skip the first race and go on to the next considerations.

 

silvershadow

(10,336 posts)
228. They are not wrong. It has been discussed quite at length and repeatedly here. Short story:
Wed May 4, 2016, 03:26 AM
May 2016

some are new voters, not party voters. If you shut them out, many certainly might.

uponit7771

(90,364 posts)
231. Yeap, the same faction of dems who hate Obama will support the guy who calls him Kenyan....
Wed May 4, 2016, 04:14 AM
May 2016

... but lets ignore those lil facts

eggman67

(837 posts)
232. I'm not surprised
Wed May 4, 2016, 04:25 AM
May 2016

I know quite a few folks here in PA who have yet to forgive the Clintons for NAFTA. Trade is a Bernie/Trump overlap point. They hear them both saying NAFTA et al are disasters and they agree. This is part of why Bernie is a better GE candidate vs. Trump. He cancels him out on trade and the Iraq war.

Stuckinthebush

(10,847 posts)
236. Meh. There are idiots all over this country
Wed May 4, 2016, 03:06 PM
May 2016

I'd expect there are some who are Sanders supporters and some who,are Clinton supporters. These idiots would vote for Trump over the Dem nominee because they are clueless. I'm not worried about the majority of Dem supporters switching to Trump

Demsrule86

(68,696 posts)
237. It says something about their character or lack there of.
Wed May 4, 2016, 03:25 PM
May 2016

They would be willing to throw their fellow Americans under the bus for a pouting fest.

tavernier

(12,406 posts)
241. Right you are.
Wed May 4, 2016, 09:10 PM
May 2016

People who died for your right to vote also understand your right to not vote, if you do not agree with the candidate.

At the same time, accept the winner.

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