2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumMSNBC just said that a recent poll shows Sanders supporters may vote for Trump
in the GE if Hillary is the nominee. I believe the poll number was low, but still disturbing to think that this is a possibility.
Please tell me they are wrong.
BootinUp
(47,197 posts)long ago identified Trump supporters as possible cross-overs for them. So this would also work in reverse.
Response to BootinUp (Reply #1)
Post removed
Baobab
(4,667 posts)Would she give up her support for coups and death squads in central America?
MissDeeds
(7,499 posts)I doubt if she has anythng to offer those who keep delving into endless conspiracy theories despite having suffered a complete and historic loss.
Baobab
(4,667 posts)what are you talking about exactly
Demsrule86
(68,696 posts)We won't offer deluded future Trump supporters anything. Certainly not ones that post false attacks against the Democratic nominee.
BootinUp
(47,197 posts)if Bernie won.
Demsrule86
(68,696 posts)They don't care about the election, or they are secret Trump supporters.
thucythucy
(8,087 posts)to ever support death squads and coups.
(Do I really need the sarcasm thingy?)
Chicago1980
(1,968 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Not going to happen.
Response to Baobab (Reply #40)
Ed Suspicious This message was self-deleted by its author.
MissDeeds
(7,499 posts)You really speak well for your candidate.
Bye!
Ned_Devine
(3,146 posts)The funny thing is, so many of these posters don't even realize how much they sound like assholes.
hellofromreddit
(1,182 posts)Condescension without substance. I'm sure that'll turn around bunches of voters.
senz
(11,945 posts)Thank you.
What it most often reminds me of are psychological studies of those who think they're superior and never doubt their correctness on on any test but turn out to be wrong most of the time, while those who doubt themselves and don't feel superior are more frequently correct on tests.
Egotism seems well matched with mediocrity.
actslikeacarrot
(464 posts)Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)supporters there main concern was honesty. It was quite simple to talk those Trump supporters into supporting Bernie instead based on both honesty and issues.
They will not support Clinton because they do not find her honest. I don't find Trump honest either but many of them do and apparently honesty is a big issue for Americans these days.
NJCher
(35,746 posts)Honesty is the issue.
Also they thought there were enough checks and balances to keep trump in check.
Cher
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Skwmom
(12,685 posts)Privilege.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)polly7
(20,582 posts)Instead of trying to understand the reasons why so many of ALL races, gender, sexual orientation, religion, class are running from establishment candidates who represent everything they're against (even to those as disgusting as Trump) - it's just easier to claim some kind of bigotry - used since Sanders first began his campaign.
(But I'm guessing most of those using it actually do understand.)
Sadly.
kerry-is-my-prez
(8,133 posts)are most of the problem. The president can only veto and use the "bully pulpit" (make statements, hold press conferences) and use the media to get things done.
w4rma
(31,700 posts)And so we lost Congress. Neoliberals are completely unable to keep Congress, because when they are leading the Democratic Party, they do shit like that. Clinton lost Congress for the first time since FDR when he signed NAFTA and decided to turn gun control into some type of wedge issue.
TheDormouse
(1,168 posts)Yavin4
(35,446 posts)Women losing their reproductive freedom won't affect the Bernie Bros.
merrily
(45,251 posts)The biggest dividing line for Bernie supporters is age, not gender or race. And most younger women can reproduce.
runaway hero
(835 posts)Abortion is a wash.
yardwork
(61,712 posts)runaway hero
(835 posts)It's settled law.
yardwork
(61,712 posts)And, states are passing extreme laws limiting women's access to abortions.
A Trump presidency would accelerate limits on women's access to health care, including abortions. Bet on it.
runaway hero
(835 posts)It's simply not his priority. HRC will definitely protect women's right but it's not her number one issue right now either. People want jobs and could care less. This election won't be about divisive social issues.
yardwork
(61,712 posts)That alone will do immeasurable damage to all kinds of rights.
runaway hero
(835 posts)Not far right. If this was Lying Ted I would see the point.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)runaway hero
(835 posts)And that it's a crime?
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)runaway hero
(835 posts)Not just republicans. Even Hillary would deport. What should we do about it then?
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)runaway hero
(835 posts)People don't like illegal immigration.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)runaway hero
(835 posts)You're in the minority and justifying a crime. Do you feel the same for robbery? Property destruction. Give and actual opinion and not spin.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)bagger.
My opinion is that you think Middle America doesn't matter.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)even baggers.
runaway hero
(835 posts)Do thieves matter too?
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)runaway hero
(835 posts)illegals are not, that's the difference.
Rosa Luxemburg
(28,627 posts)runaway hero
(835 posts)Do you support it?
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)along with the Republican frontrunner. Trump will never be President, you better hope Republicans can cram Cruz down your throat.
runaway hero
(835 posts)You don't know politics.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)runaway hero
(835 posts)You are a member of the third way, that's clear.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)You're to obsessed on your cellphone and imagining 'tone' off message board text.
Bogus
bo·gus
/ˈbōɡəs/
adjective
adjective: bogus
not genuine or true; fake.
Response to seabeyond (Reply #2)
Name removed Message auto-removed
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)white and privilege.
Ya Aging, I get it.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)The establishment are insiders. The establishment exists to preserve white privilege.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)pinebox
(5,761 posts)Sounds like you want your cake and to eat it too.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)pinebox
(5,761 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Like congress and the government.
In the jargon of sociology, anyone who does not belong to The Establishment may be labelled an "outsider"
Oh, and the establishment exists to preserve white privilege.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)The Establishment: A small group that dominates a larger organization
Like congress and the government.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Or the congress. Sanders has always been an outsider, he does not belong to any dominant subgroups within the congress, as you well know. Robotically repeating Hill-speak does not make it so.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)But assuming for the moment that you are correct, perhaps the party ought to offer something that men ought to find attractive about us... it avoids exactly the problem you describe.
grossproffit
(5,591 posts)floriduck
(2,262 posts)He's frightening, and that's being kind.
Matt_R
(456 posts)that states "Bernie Sanders is leading in the polls and Hillary Clinton supporters have vowed to vote for Trump before voting for Sanders."
silvershadow
(10,336 posts)welcome them to the party. Not sure why you are surprised? Or are you really?
CobaltBlue
(1,122 posts)Thom Hartmann likes this site; refers to it; and did a great job assessing this just recently (around the first week of April).
lovemydog
(11,833 posts)can be done to welcome them to the party? I'm sincerely interested in your thoughts. And since it's Friday eve, I'd like to say I hope you enjoy a great weekend.
silvershadow
(10,336 posts)that's kind of where we are at the moment it would seem. I have always been an FDR, Union labor Democrat. For my own reasons, I chose to support Sanders. Being that I am a Berner, I am exposed to the entire subset of Berners who, for whatever reason, are NOT currently Democrats. I interact with them. Right now, there are a not insignificant number who claim to be voting other directions if he's not our nominee.
While I would *like to be able to have them in all the end, perhaps we won't.
PS: I'm not gonna leave the party over it, I wouldn't think because that would be even worse. Better to fix things from within. Without critical mass there is ZERO chance to fix things, as the Greens and Indy's and everyone else has learned.
Thank you for the weekend wishes. I wish you a nice weekend as well!
lovemydog
(11,833 posts)Yay! Weekend!
silvershadow
(10,336 posts)Baobab
(4,667 posts)is likely to get a lot (all?) of the ones I know.
lovemydog
(11,833 posts)Have a good weekend.
INdemo
(6,994 posts)and it will the younger,the New Generation that will build this party.
It is very real and a strong possibility.These new eligible voters have the power to do so because they have the force to build this new political party.
silvershadow
(10,336 posts)Oh, and against Oligarchy.
INdemo
(6,994 posts)Being a Union member for over 40 years I can honestly say the Union leaders at the top have managed to weaken General membership force. They install local leaders (that are no longer elected by the local membership) and they call the shots.'
Just like the political endorsements..those didn't come from the over all membership but from executive boards that know which side of their bread they want buttered.
I think the New Deal Democrats are about to become a force and the so called Democratic Party with their Republican leadership will be left in the dust holding the DNC sign while the new Progressive Party revives the party of FDR.
A note about union members though..I know many members that think Trump is the man .Yes they are willing to vote all their benefits away and pull the lever for Trump..I tell them its pretty stupid but what do I know.
silvershadow
(10,336 posts)Baobab
(4,667 posts)paid for by some body..
The MIC?
Squinch
(51,021 posts)willing to go "more Trumpy" on?
And I though both parties were the same?
I get so confused by you guys.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Jitter65
(3,089 posts)voted for a long time. They were not going to vote for the Democrat anyway.
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)Jack Bone
(2,023 posts)Many feel, on some issues, Trump IS more progressive than Hills....My Wife, The lovely Mrs. Jack Bone...thinks this on trade and currency manipulation...Trump's more progressive on those....me, I'll prob'ly just Write -In Albert Gore Jr. once again.
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)count so very little for you people?
disgusting
Jack Bone
(2,023 posts)I'm voting for Al Gore!....it's the A...B...C!!
Anybody But Clinton!
Petrushka
(3,709 posts)After considerable thought,I have decided: If Hillary gets the nomination,
I shall vote down-ticket only--unless I change my mind and decide to
go along with my daughter.
Edited to add: FWIW: I was a Hillary supporter in '08. Thanks to her
record since then, she's lost this olde biddy to Bernie in '16.
Buzz Clik
(38,437 posts)Andy823
(11,495 posts)Were never going to vote for a Democrat in the first place. All the BS about voting for Trump, the green party or every writing in Bernie's name, is nothing more that right wing trolls pretending to be "real" supporters of Bernie's. Sure some very gullible Democrats may jump ship, not vote for Hillary, or just stay home, but I hardly think they would vote for Trump.
DJ13
(23,671 posts)This is NOT about party, its solely about voting AGAINST the Status Quo.
Regardless of party, people are tired of business as usual in our government.
By the way, thats a growing sentiment across the country (world, actually), the worst thing that could happen, happened.
Hillary is the ultimate representation of that business as usual sentiment.
In this climate even if she wins she will lose as the country watches her governance through the lens of that distrust and outright anger at business as usual.
Baobab
(4,667 posts)Read my .sig
The ratfuckers will go back where they came from.
madokie
(51,076 posts)ain't even going to entertain the thought of voting for tRump, you can bet on that.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)But Bernie has some support that isn't much like me (hard-left...socialist, in fact) at all. There are moderate independents who are attracted strongly to an outsider, to someone not part of the entrenched powers-that-be, part of the (conspicuously failing) status-quo. They'd rather have Bernie than Trump...but Trump over anyone else in the race. I don't agree with this contingent's reasoning...but I understand them.
The majority of Bernie supporters not willing to vote for Hillary will, I suspect, either vote for Jill Stein, write in Bernie, or simply not vote for president. I'm undecided which of those options I'll be picking. Not that it matters in my non-swing stare. Thanks for nothing, Electoral Anachronism.
astrophuss42
(290 posts)Into privilege for being able to vote for whom we please. I'm pretty set, myself. Open to hearing arguments for voting HRC but nothing tangible has been brought forth.
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)CobaltBlue
(1,122 posts)No presidential candidatewinner or losergets 100 percent of the vote nationwide from same-party, self-identified Rs or Ds. The 2016 nominees will each get a percentage of crossover voters. Which ever one gets morewhile performing stronger with the same-party votewill win.
politicaljunkie41910
(3,335 posts)giving into it again and again. You've all seen where Bernie's demands just keep on changing and there's no guarantee that if she gave into all the current demands he can deliver the votes of his supporters and there is no way of proof that they in fact vote for her after HRC and the DNC gave him everything he asked for up to and including at the DNC Convention.
Hillary can always go home and enjoy the rest of her life with her husband and grandkids. She will have a fulfilled life whether or not she is president. Bernie is old and if Trump wins, there is a good chance that they keep both Houses of Congress. What will Bernie have that is fulfilling should he chose to return to his position as a Senator if the GOP is in control for the next 4 years. I can guarantee you that the Dems will make sure that he pays by losing any seniority or coveted committee assignment he currently holds. I know I would do it if it happened to me. By the time the next presidential campaign rolled around, there will be younger and more abled Democratic candidates ready to assume the throne than Bernie.
INdemo
(6,994 posts)As far as being rejected by the "Democrats' in Congress..well real Democrats will welcome Bernie Sanders and I dont believe he really gives a shit about the Republican Lites,the Corporate owned Democrats.
We found out real early who these so called Democrats are and it really doesn't matter at this point which party has the Majority,its the Corporate mafia that pull the puppet strings and the ones that obey every command include many of the Democrats you might be refering to.
Remember the Democrats had control of both houses not long ago and they did what the Republicans wanted so nothing has has changed.
No one or any President will will walk over Bernie Sanders so...obviously you definitely don't know what you are talking about.
politicaljunkie41910
(3,335 posts)I have a life outside of this board and it doesn't revolve around name calling and cursing at people I know nothing about. I have an opinion and you have an opinion as does everyone else who posts on this board. But in the grand scheme of things, none of them amount to more than a hill of beans.
Bohunk68
(1,364 posts)COLGATE4
(14,732 posts)Barack_America
(28,876 posts)There are a lot of anti-establishment independents this year.
With Hillary as the nominee, all we can do is hope they stay home.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)It's a fanbase built around lashing out and inchoate rage. Expecting that sort of energy to be reasonable and logical in the face of losing is unrealistic.
tavernier
(12,406 posts)(Yeah, like all the rest of you know what it means)...
Red Mountain
(1,737 posts)Or honest differences of opinion.
Your post does little to bring the party together to support our eventual candidate. Actually, seems like you are trying to drive even deeper wedges into the party.
Why is that?
arcane1
(38,613 posts)Codeine
(25,586 posts)Seriously?
Squinch
(51,021 posts)obamanut2012
(26,142 posts)tavernier
(12,406 posts)I've just never heard it before. I like learning words that are new to me. No sarcasm intended.
bigwillq
(72,790 posts)Some Kasich, Cruz, Rubio, Fiorina, Carson supporters will vote for Clinton. Most won't.
Some may switch up, but probably not enough to swing either way.
tammywammy
(26,582 posts)Is a goddamn moron
ChairmanAgnostic
(28,017 posts)That is a question more of us face each day as November approaches.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)But a large number voting third party, and Clinton loses Independants badly.
procon
(15,805 posts)Android3.14
(5,402 posts)of her followers, it is still unlikely that Sander's supporters will vote for Trump, but many-many of them will not vote for her.
I know I feel that way right now.
MissDeeds
(7,499 posts)Her behavior and that of her supporters is not serving her well. She has succeeded in alienating many voters who she will need IF, god forbid, she wins the nomination.
Xyzse
(8,217 posts)As for me, I will not vote for any Republican at all.
I must admit, I've been very tempted to just leave the Presidential election alone. I am pretty sure I won't do that, but good god, I am so tempted.
highprincipleswork
(3,111 posts)do right here.
You're a human being, I presume.
How do you act when people shit on you? They have free will. They will vote for Hillary or Trump or not at all.
The bigger question is whether Hillary and the party will choose to accept and include a very large number of fired up people who only want things that Democrats have traditionally wanted.
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)snowy owl
(2,145 posts)mythology
(9,527 posts)If you think some Sanders supporters haven't said horrible things here, you either are blinded by bias or aren't looking.
highprincipleswork
(3,111 posts)here. This isn't some childish game of tit for tat. This is the future of our party, either coming together or splitting apart.
If Hillary and her supporters are the winners they like to think they are, they would be well advised to be magnanimous and welcoming, rather than bitter, vengeful, spiteful, arrogant, dismissive.
That's what real winners do, and that's why they win. Because in the end they actually win others around to their side.
Other people try to result to bullying and fear tactics. Like "vote for us because the Republican candidate is SCARY".
in the presence of people honestly trying to find ethical and cool solutions to our very real problems, those tactics are not likely to be the final answer.
uponit7771
(90,364 posts)danimich1
(175 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)... well get ten reasonable independent voters. That's a fair trade!
Blanks
(4,835 posts)Until the first debate, I wouldn't even begin to speculate on what demographics vote for which party.
The demographic that I expect Trump to lose is republican women. My female republican friends on Facebook despise Trump, and he hasn't even debated Hillary yet.
I have many redneck friends and family members that are Trump supporters, all men. Trump is gonna say something between now and November that will solidify opposition to him. I'm sure that's what the republicans fear. He will say something and not even know what he's done, it is the way of the world.
desmiller
(747 posts)DemocratSinceBirth
(99,714 posts)He said he prefers Jewish accountants over African American ones because the former are better with money. He managed to call Jews money grubbing and African Americans not intelligent enough to responsibly handle money.
Response to desmiller (Reply #38)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Ilsa
(61,698 posts)The stakes are too high when considering HRC vs DT (or Cruz) as president.
I'll be voting for the Democratic nominee in November.
Demsrule86
(68,696 posts)who cares? Obviously they are not sincere ...there is no movement ...it is about a man.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)People here are still not understanding the anger.
Yurovsky
(2,064 posts)there are millions of Americans - Left, Right, moderate, or independent - who are just plain fed up with an economy that is geared towards fucking them over to enrich the 1%. They may not know who is behind it specifically, but in general they probably figure it's the folks running either of the 2 parties... Or both.
There may be folks who who are drawn to just the vague notion of someone who isn't establishment. Maybe they don't fit nicely into traditional notions of right/left. Some, maybe not a huge number but some, might have been for Bernie but now Trump looks like the only outsider. And Trump has done a pretty amazing job of just talking in economic generalities, promising to improve the lot of those left out of the 1%ers Gold Rush. Of course it's all bullshit, but some will bite. Feel free to look down your nose at them in typical Clintonian fashion, but mark my words they will never vote for HRC.
Hillary is just not a likeable person. Never will be.
TheDormouse
(1,168 posts)Except for the "Hillary is just not a likeable person. Never will be."
I think she actually can be quite charming at times. It's a pity that, for whatever reasons, it's hard for her to let that side shine through all the time.
Yurovsky
(2,064 posts)I would add an anecdote from a retired flight engineer on Air Force 2 that I met a few years ago while doing a little fishing on the Indian River in Florida (snook is amazing, btw). He spent much of the 1990s flying VP Gore & HRC around (when she wasn't with Bill on AF1), and while he didn't really care for the VP (called him condescending and rude), he painted a very different picture of HRC than how she comes across in the media and before large crowds. He said she was always very polite, actually got to know the crew by name, and in general came off as a kind of folksy product of her Midwestern roots. And this was from a guy who self-described as a Republican albeit pretty moderate (yes, some of them may still exist despite the GOP's efforts to convert them to the extremist wing of the GOP which has been the majority since the 1980s).
So I guess my point is she may well be likeable one on one or in a small group. But when she gets on stage, and starts lecturing progressives on how unrealistic it is to hold Wall Street & corporations accountable, or tries to defend her mind-numbing greed (just how many millions would it take to satisfy her?), well, that's the truly unlikeable HRC that I and many others simply can't stomach. And the sad part of it is that she had plenty of money. Her & Bill's book deals would have quickly erased their legal debts, and between the two of them were guaranteed federal pensions in excess of $600k/year for life along with numerous other perks (staff, secret service protection, etc). Bernie has shown that you don't need to sell out to fund a campaign, and had she simply not gone all-in with Wall Street & corporate America, her other transgressions during the 1990s and in the Senate might have been tolerated by progressives.
But she and her advisors have chosen to confront progressives and paint them as naive and unrealistic. I think it's pretty clear from the number of states Bernie has won that progressivism - even when facing an opponent with almost every conceivable advantage - holds great appeal within the Democratic Party and among independents. And Bernie... How could anybody outside the 1% NOT like him???
TheDormouse
(1,168 posts)ecstatic
(32,733 posts)I won't have any sympathy if or when they get the "outsider" they've dreamed of.
IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)Last edited Sat Apr 30, 2016, 12:06 AM - Edit history (1)
If it looks like an incumbent, they will be voting them OUT.
Bernie was the sane alternative. Put up the Ultra Insider and I predict President Trump.
It's not business as usual where you lie and get away with it.
How many ways does it need to be explained? People. Want. Change.
CentralCoaster
(1,163 posts)All but one person I have talked to about this don't care, if it's Hillary as the nominee they'll vote Green or even take Trump over seeing her take our party and our country down.
I can't blame them, though I don't have a plan for what to do, myself.
Trajan
(19,089 posts)The media said ...
The billionaire controlled media said ....
The fucked up media said ...
C'mon ...
Ino
(3,366 posts)yourout
(7,534 posts)Will I vote for trump.
glinda
(14,807 posts)SHRED
(28,136 posts)marlakay
(11,498 posts)I know a few who are voting for Jill but none of my friends would vote for him.
All of my friends are big on the environment and antiwar.
Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)policies. That is what they want.
Well, they are doomed for disappointment.
stonecutter357
(12,697 posts)bvf
(6,604 posts)MSNBC is just like all the rest.
merrily
(45,251 posts)be the right of the Party, not the left. That was true of Nixon Democrats, Bush Democrats and Reagan Democrats. There may, however, be so-called "third" party voting by the left.
snowy owl
(2,145 posts)snowy owl
(2,145 posts)If such a thing should happen and any true liberal votes for Trump, they may have contributed.
Lil Missy
(17,865 posts)bkkyosemite
(5,792 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Trump is not popular with women it appears. And believe it or not there are a lot of Latino Republicans who probably won't vote for him either.
0rganism
(23,971 posts)some independent voters aligned with Sanders only because he was perceived as less-affiliated with a political establishment, some because he drew big exciting crowds. the only other such person in the race is Trump. i wouldn't read too much into their "defection" ideologically, except they really hate both major political parties. suspect some will try the Trump thing on for a few weeks and find it doesn't fit too well.
Algernon Moncrieff
(5,790 posts)More likely, they'll write in Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, Jimmy Buffett, Steph Curry, etc.
I will say I've seen a meme on Facebook along these lines: Sanders supporter argues we'd be better off with 4 years of Trump so we can get 8 years of Elizabeth Warren in 2020. Flawed at many levels -- including that there's not a shred of evidence she wants to run.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Nothing they say means anything
Zorra
(27,670 posts)moriah
(8,311 posts)Even if they end up being unable to ingest enough anti-emetics before and intoxicants after to vote for the Nominee, they won't vote for the Hair.
runaway hero
(835 posts)But not a lot.
We need to unify. Any comments about who cares are just more noise and those people are part of the problem. There will not be a blowout nor will Hillary or Bernie for that matter win 400 EVs so let's get to it.
senz
(11,945 posts)The only person it critiques is her.
frylock
(34,825 posts)basselope
(2,565 posts)MANY Bernie supporters main motivation is striking out against the establishment.
Clinton IS the establishment.
Trump is not.
If that was their main motivation, Trump is next logical vote.
moriah
(8,311 posts)A billionaire who thinks that his running his companies into bankruptcy and profiting off of it and the workers who lost jobs, selling steaks, trading up his wives like one would trade in for the newest model of car, and so used to not having any criticism that he sues someone who paints him as a "grower" rather than a "shower", qualifies him for the Presidency.
People may call it a logical fallacy, the "no true Scotsman", but I refuse to believe that anyone who voted for Bernie in the primary because they believed in his message would ever vote for Trump.
basselope
(2,565 posts)I can assure you the "no true Scotsman" is a logical fallacy.
The flaw in the logic is the assumption that they believe in "all parts" of Bernie's message. I know people who voted for Bernie who didn't want single payer health care or free college, but really wanted Super Pacs to go away and felt that was the key issue. They didn't worry about single payer and free college b/c they felt he couldn't get that through congress... but they want the end of the people being influenced.
There are also Bernie supporters who dislike Clinton so much they will vote AGAINST her, even if it means voting for Trump.
TheDormouse
(1,168 posts)--I'm referring to where you said, "There are also Bernie supporters who dislike Clinton so much they will vote AGAINST her, even if it means voting for Trump."
basselope
(2,565 posts)The people I have met with and worked with are so tried of the establishment. The democrats of capitulation and Hillary shows no sign of being any different.
Some of them were Obama supporters in 2008, who sat out 2012 out of disgust.
runaway hero
(835 posts)Are the two most unlikable candidates. This will either be a high turnout or low turnout election. Low if people think Hillary will win. High if Donald is within the margin of error by labor day.
If Kasich or Rubio come out of the convention? Hillary is in serious trouble. Hillary can beat Donald.
Rass
(112 posts)For some folks it's all about jobs. Hillary encourages outsourcing jobs to other countries with slave/cheap labor while Americans become homeless. Hillary will always support free trade despite her public statements. Trump talks tough against outsourcing. Whether he will deliver is another issue.
The U.S. has lost many jobs and continues to allow companies to run off to other countries. At the very least there should be some tax and/or allow abandoned employees to take over the facilities as a cooperative.
As someone with a technical background I have had the pleasure of attending job interviews where the interviewer would base my rate like someone from India. Then, there is the pleasure of managing projects outsourced to other countries when there are perfectly good candidates locally. If it wasn't for Trump's racist stance (I am a minority) and far right ideology I would vote for him just to have a higher chance at a better wage. I know he is full of shit but so is Hillary. Being deep in college debt, working a low wage with no benefits and not completing my inventions can be demoralizing. The continuation of outsourcing manufacturing jobs will only make Americans poorer.
Samantha
(9,314 posts)I thought it was amazing too. But after thinking about it, "Sanders supporters" include some first-time voters and people who are looking for anti-establishment leadership. That gives them only two options - Sanders or Trump. So maybe it is not surprising if that is the main thing those voters are seeking. In other words, they might not necessarily be traditional Dems.
Sam
jfern
(5,204 posts)snowy owl
(2,145 posts)Maybe more numbers in more states out there. On Maher tonight the conversation with Thomas Frank discussed the fact that the party has left working class Americans behind. These Bernie supporters could be a matter of voters going where they feel included. Or they may have been Republicans who switched over for the Bern and now are switching back. We need to know more.
jillan
(39,451 posts)be true.
SheilaT
(23,156 posts)is still voting for evil, so some of us might decide not to vote for an evil of any kind.
Personally, as a strong Bernie supporter, I will not vote for Trump. But I don't want to vote for "the lesser of two evils" either. I'm done with that bullshit. If I can't vote for the person I actually want to win, then why should I vote at all for that office?
ContinentalOp
(5,356 posts)They've already bought into all of the right wing smears and conspiracy theories against Clinton, and a good chunk of Sanders supporters are mindlessly "anti-establishment". Aka "independents" who are going to vote for anyone who feeds into their anger regardless of the actual issues at stake.
Beacool
(30,253 posts)"No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public."
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Result in progressive ideas getting passed. I will vote for the DNC nominee just as I have in every presidential election. Could never imagine voting for Trump or Cruz, both are past evil and both are wrong wrong wrong.
NanceGreggs
(27,819 posts)... the "Bernie supporters" who were never going to vote for him if he was the nominee anyway, it really doesn't matter, does it?
Mike Nelson
(9,968 posts)...very small, I think. There are a much more significant number of Bernie supporters who will "never, never, never!" vote for Hillary, as they've stated here on DU. I believe them. I don't think it will matter, though; when it moves to the general election, Trump support will reveal itself as low.
quaker bill
(8,224 posts)at about this time in the process in 2008. At the time, these polls about all the unhappy Democratic Party women were cited as a reason McCain picked Caribou Barbie for VP. This water was way under the bridge and gone by November.
ChairmanAgnostic
(28,017 posts)Is it that unusual for us to look at alternatives? She is a menace. She will cause WWIII. She will usher in yet another Wall Street ripoff of Africa, then force us to bail them out again. And she will sell out social security to them so they can profit off of it while ripping us off yet again.
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)B Calm
(28,762 posts)will vote for Trump if Hillary doesn't adopt some of Bernie's platform. Bernie supporters believe conservatives are taking over the party of the working man and probably more than a few would vote for Trump hoping it will wake up the DNC.
no_hypocrisy
(46,202 posts)That's bad enough. What's really distressing is when challenged, she admits that she knows "nothing at all" about Trump and still will vote for him. She hasn't posted anything about Trump; it's just a knee-jerk choice.
It's the psychology of the American Voter in 2016 that I finding disconcerting and distressing.
pampango
(24,692 posts)party. If true they would kind of cancel each other out. And ~90% of each would support their party's nominee.
pinebox
(5,761 posts)I think what many Hillary supporters aren't getting is that people are fed up with politicians.
The whole mantra of "no more Clinton's, no more Bush's". Millions of Bernie supporters will never vote for Hillary because they can't stand her and see her as a liar. It is what it is.
Larkspur
(12,804 posts)that did not happen either or it was such a small contingent that it did not register at the polls.
justiceischeap
(14,040 posts)I've read many a comment from Sanders supporters say that if Clinton gets the nom, they'll vote for Trump.
This leaves me to draw a couple of conclusions:
1) These supporters aren't actually Democrats, they're either Independents, Liberatarians, or Republicans posing as Sanders supporters
2) They are sexist
3) They really are Trump supporters posing and acting like Sanders supporters
4) Dumb asses who have no real idea of what is at stake this election (The US Supreme Court)
runaway hero
(835 posts)I am more then sure these people would have voted for warren.
justiceischeap
(14,040 posts)but are still sexist and feel a woman shouldn't be running the United States. I've seen my fair share of that too.
runaway hero
(835 posts)Hell Palin was being pushed to run 4 years ago.
justiceischeap
(14,040 posts)aren't and never were actual Democrats and most likely never intended to vote for Bernie in the first place.
It would appear that the GOP really doesn't want to run against Clinton... all you have to do is pay attention to see that. They'd be very happy to run against Sanders, because I think they're under the impression they can beat him easily. So why not encourage young republicans to show Sanders support (online) and try and sway the masses of social media that he has more support than he actually does. If I were a campaign strategist, I would do exactly that. Then you have the Libertarians that any time they hear "legalize pot," they support that candidate. Those same Libertarians would never support Clinton (unless she was for 100% decriminalization of pot) but I could see them support Trump because he's outside the "mainstream."
Anyway, I think a lot of Sanders support we see from the so-called "BernieBros" have never been and never will be Democrats.
runaway hero
(835 posts)If they had Rubio, Ryan or Kasich out in front, she would lose. And they could still run out of the convention. Everyone has to listen to the people imo. There is a clamouring for anti establishment for a reason. Clinton, who is a woman, just represents what everyone hates about career politicians. Same with Jeb!
justiceischeap
(14,040 posts)Seriously? Why are polls saying that if Clinton gets the nomination, she'll trounce Trump? Seriously? In what logical mind is she the weakest candidate? You may not like her politics, you may not like her personally or you may have even bought into the decades long smear campaign that the GOP has been conducting, but the fact of the matter is, she's winning and that makes her the stronger candidate.
runaway hero
(835 posts)That has nothing to do with the (mostly) democrat only primary. And if she can only win against Trump, what does that say? She needs the worst GOP candidate to come out to win? What kind of election is this then?
justiceischeap
(14,040 posts)No matter the candidate she wins. I don't know what polls you've been looking at but if they say 57% of the population is planning to vote against her, then I'm guessing those polls are right-leaning.
runaway hero
(835 posts)She only beats trump out right and even then Bernie beats him by more. She loses to Kasich, Kasich loses to bernie but is within the margin of error, so toss up.
All RCP averages.
You should hope Kasich or Rubio don't come out of the convention.
runaway hero
(835 posts)I like Hillary. Just saying, Trump is the very worst in polling so he should beat her.
LWolf
(46,179 posts)I openly and sincerely assure you that I will not be voting for Trump no matter what happens.
Sanders, though, pulls in a really broad range of people that Clinton does not. That's why he beats Trump by much larger margins than HRC does, if she is able to beat him at all. So I'm sure there are some Rs and more conservative independents out there who would vote for Trump rather than Clinton. That's just one of the many reasons he'd be a better nominee than she.
LaurenG
(24,841 posts)That sounds like puma talk. We ALL remember how those nasty pumas tried to make Obama loose to the republican nominee. Bernie supporters aren't Pumas but don't be surprised if they just write him in and vote down ticket.
Response to tavernier (Original post)
rjsquirrel This message was self-deleted by its author.
JTFrog
(14,274 posts)Not surprised to say the least.
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)And it would prove that their "progressive values" are total BS as well.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)if they do vote for the trumpchump and he wins they will get what they deserve.
Attorney in Texas
(3,373 posts)Sunlei
(22,651 posts)mia
(8,363 posts)Some folks, I imagine, are tired of being misled by dishonest politicians.
Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)This is just the M$M and others(?) setting the stage. They already know she will lose but they are too afraid of Change to do anything else.
They need a scape-goat and it will be Sanders and his supporters.
It won't matter that she will never get the independents and that the republican base will come out in droves just to vote against her.
The fact that she has not earned votes from the Left won't matter either because , as we've seen here today - It's the Duty of Every Sanders Supporter to Vote for Hillary] http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1869880
regarless of whether she represents the values of any Sanders Supporters
and
Clinton Camp says She's Been Forced to the Left Enough Already
bkkyosemite
(5,792 posts)This poll is Bull Shit.
lmbradford
(517 posts)I will either stay home or write Bernie in. I will not vote to send my daughter into corporate war over profits. Why do you think the military supports Bernie so strongly? Honestly, i think Trump is a safer choice to make in regards to my daughters life. And frankly, that is why i am so disgusted with the Democratic Party. Lives are at stake. The D next to her name means nothing to me without the D principles.
BlueStateLib
(937 posts)http://www.militarytimes.com/story/military/election/2016/03/14/military-times-election-survey-donald-trump-bernie-sanders/81767560/
lmbradford
(517 posts)She doesnt know any Clinton or Trump supporters. Most everyone she knows in the AF is a Bernie supporter. That is primarily bc of his views and judgement on war.
TheDormouse
(1,168 posts)JesterCS
(1,827 posts)anyone who supports sanders would never vote for Trump.
killbotfactory
(13,566 posts)dr60omg
(283 posts)will vote for Stein and still others will not vote at all ...
Matt_R
(456 posts)"Clinton supporters vow to not vote for Sanders, and instead support Trump"
Yeah exactly, more divide and conquer.
On the bright side you have the Sanders supporters on this thread on the defensive.
tavernier
(12,406 posts)How did you see through my elaborate ruse?
sigh.
I'll be so happy when this election paranoia finally ends, and not every statement or question in a post has dark hidden motives and meanings.
Matt_R
(456 posts)the sarcasm was the four words "On the bright side"
See you even have me on the defensive. I still think H. R. Clinton is more conservative than any democrat I've seen in my lifetime. I recall a Joe Lierberman who joined the Democrat party because it was more expedient for him. I see the same from Clinton. She only joined the big D party because it was the best way to the white house for her, and now many many year later she gets the chance to be there a third term.
I CAN'T/WON'T vote for a small government, corporate focused candidate. The only way forward is to protect the least of our population, and I'm speaking globally. We are all in this together.
When common sense about a failed system is considered paranoia, we have failed. You can vote for the same failed Regan policies Clinton has proposed. But for me I will vote for Hope and Change for the third time. Maybe this time, who knows.
The Second Stone
(2,900 posts)and they will not vote for such a bigot. All will actually go to the polls to vote against the bigot. They are just angry now and trolling the pollsters.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)apnu
(8,759 posts)I know of no Sanders supporter considering Trump.
Not a single one. Be it here on DU, or Facebook, or Reddit, nor within my personal circle.
tavernier
(12,406 posts)plenty who loathe Hillary. My guess is that when the time comes to hit the button, many will either plug nose and vote dem, or skip the first race and go on to the next considerations.
Electric Monk
(13,869 posts)hereforthevoting
(241 posts)Is that we can all decide for ourselves ... or choose not to.
silvershadow
(10,336 posts)some are new voters, not party voters. If you shut them out, many certainly might.
uponit7771
(90,364 posts)... but lets ignore those lil facts
eggman67
(837 posts)I know quite a few folks here in PA who have yet to forgive the Clintons for NAFTA. Trade is a Bernie/Trump overlap point. They hear them both saying NAFTA et al are disasters and they agree. This is part of why Bernie is a better GE candidate vs. Trump. He cancels him out on trade and the Iraq war.
Sparkly
(24,149 posts)Shows you how much it's all about the issues.
Stuckinthebush
(10,847 posts)I'd expect there are some who are Sanders supporters and some who,are Clinton supporters. These idiots would vote for Trump over the Dem nominee because they are clueless. I'm not worried about the majority of Dem supporters switching to Trump
Demsrule86
(68,696 posts)They would be willing to throw their fellow Americans under the bus for a pouting fest.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)tavernier
(12,406 posts)People who died for your right to vote also understand your right to not vote, if you do not agree with the candidate.
At the same time, accept the winner.
ecstatic
(32,733 posts)our nominee in future primaries.