2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumWhy Do Progressives Cling to Hillary?
Good question. Good article. What do you think?
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How could so many progressives vote for Hillary over Bernie?
What does Hillary offer to progressives that Bernie cant provide in abundance?
1. Hillarys a proven winner?
Hillary progressives cling to this winner meme even though poll after poll shows that Sanders is running better against all the Republican candidates. Hillarys favorable/unfavorable ratings according to the Real Clear Politics average of polls is -15.2%, while Bernies is +5.2%.
2. Hillary knows how to get things done?
You would think Hillary progressives would be concerned about many of her past accomplishments. If Hillary wants to take credit for the Clinton presidency when it comes to job creation, she must also shoulder the responsibility for dismantling welfare as we know it, the crime bill which helped make the U.S. the world leader in prisoners, and NAFTA which helped to gut good-paying industrial jobs.
3. Hillary is realistic, Bernie is not?
Bernie wants to mobilize the country into a political revolution for fundamental change. Hillary has no interest in such a movement. She sees herself as the change-maker-in-chief. Its all about her ability to produce pragmatic changes, not about our ability to force such changes into existence.
4. Hillary is more experienced in foreign affairs?
It is hard to distinguish her record from the neoconservatives. She supported the Iraq War ... called for more troops to surge in Afghanistan than even the leading generals wanted ... engaged in nation-building in Libya and tacit regime change in Honduras ... wants a no fly zone in Syria that most generals say would require tens of thousands of support troops.
The primaries provide a classic hawk vs dove choice, and Hillary progressives are going with the birds of prey.
etc, etc
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/les-leopold/why-do-progressives-cling_b_9796016.html
SFnomad
(3,473 posts)lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)Whoever has more votes at the moment must be better, because you don't want to bother studying their positions yourself?
SFnomad
(3,473 posts)you do, it's because they didn't bother studying the candidates positions.
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)I didn't make any assumption; only an observation. Based on your presentation, the numbers are your argument.
Beowulf
(761 posts)No mention of issues, no substantive debate over whether Hillary embodies progressive values or not, just numbers showing she's ahead. I'd say the real arrogance is your belief you don't need to engage in the issues because you have a big lead.
Myrina
(12,296 posts)n/t
Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)neo-cons, DLC , Blue Dog Third Way neo-dems and disenfranchised republicans, sure. But not progressives, unless it's some new Orwellian bastardization of the term: Progressive.
Clinton is not progressive, she is a Conservative (at best). These are mutually exclusive.
Orsino
(37,428 posts)She's terrifically popular, and will defeat whatever dumbass the GOP runs.
No, she's not really progressive, but she would win. Not that I have any doubt that Sanders would.
Downwinder
(12,869 posts)They are just begging for money.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)Now they cling to her?
KPN
(15,650 posts)obviously didn't read the article.
uponit7771
(90,364 posts)Scuba
(53,475 posts)Unfortunately, the things she would get done, shouldn't be done, at least if her history of wisdom and judgement are any indication.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)a conservative.
Here is a list of what progressive want and the Clinton/Conservative Wing is miles apart.
We want to Strengthening Social Security (e.g., raising the cap)
We are Opposed to job killing "Free Trade" agreements
We are opposed to fracking for oil company profits over people's water
We want to help college students afford college (telling them to get a job doesn't cut it)
We support making major corps pay their fair share of taxes
We want to end the unregulated domestic spying and making the NSA/CIA Security State have oversight.
Also end drone killing of terrorist "suspects" in foreign lands (100 innocents killed for each suspect)
We are for reducing the defense budget
We are for taking a hard stand against torture and indefinite detention.
We support the end of the militarization of our local police forces.
We want to end Prisons for Profits
We support legalizing marijuana esp. for medical use.
We believe in the need for funding rebuilding our neglected infrastructure.
We support single payer health insurance.
We want to see the regulation of Wall Street (e.g. reinstate Glass-Steagall)
We want to break up the big bank and media monopolies.
We are against American Exceptionalism and an excuse for neocon imperialism.
djean111
(14,255 posts)Twisted like pretzels to fit a desired result.
Both concepts have been treated to a night in Procrustes' bed - chopped off and stretched to fit what the 1% want.
When I see a progressive crowing about supporting Hillary (and there a lot of wanna-be bellwethers these days!) - I don't think Hey! I am Progressive, and if another person tells me they are a progressive and they support someone who is for war and fracking and the TPP and other shit - maybe I should, too!
Nope. I just think - you are no Progressive, and Hillary is no Democrat. Wasted verbosity on their part.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)"progressive"
"Hillary Clinton"
Pick one...
SheilaT
(23,156 posts)I especially love to hear the story of how she encouraged WalMart to let their employees unionize, proving once and for all that she is really on the side of the little people.
EndElectoral
(4,213 posts)Kip Humphrey
(4,753 posts)I hate change. I don't carry it; I haven't for a very long time now because it is largely worthless today. Besides, we should have done away with pennies and nickels 20 years ago!
procon
(15,805 posts)When he's not extolling Bernie, his articles list are all about targeting Hillary, so why is such a partisan operative credible to anyone who isn't a diehard, uncritical Sanders fan? Yes, you Bernie fans are on the hunt for all these "I love Bernie" articles, and that's fine, but in your zeal, you're missing the reason Hillary is winning because you are so focused on finding the perfect candidate with the purest idealism.
Sorry, but if I don't seem too keen in joining your "revolution", but as confounding as it might be, like other folks who choose Hillary, the primary goal is not ideology, but getting a Democratic leader elected. That's the only way we stand a chance of advancing any sort of a progressive agenda whether it's a modest or radical legislative success.
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)Regressives do.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)Certainly nobody who cares about the direction of the Democratic Party and the Working Class, the Poor, and Safety Net policies and values that made the Party GREAT would do that,
and nobody who understands the meaning of the word "Progressive" would either.
Of course, that word has been stolen and diluted to anything someone wants it to mean .
I'll never understand WHY someone not making a $MILLION/year would ever support her.
Back in the 50s and 60s, I used to ridicule without mercy people in the Working Class that voted for Republicans, and asked them why they would vote against their own financial interests.
NOW, the establishment Democrats want me to "unify", and vote against MY own financial interests.
Stranger, and stranger.
Further down the rabbit hole we go.
We live in interesting times. (An ancient Chinese curse).
[font color=firebrick][center]"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans.
I want a party that will STAND UP for Working Americans."
---Paul Wellstone [/font][/center] [center] [/font]
[font size=1]photo by bvar22
Shortly before Sen Wellstone was killed[/center][/font]
kgnu_fan
(3,021 posts)artislife
(9,497 posts)Holly_Hobby
(3,033 posts)beachbum bob
(10,437 posts)sanders has not with either case