My first post here. Can we agree Hillary has it? (Clarification)

[trof]

Last edited Thu Apr 28, 2016, 09:54 AM - Edit history (1)

Clarification: By 'first post here' I meant first time in GDP. I've been around DU for over a decade.
Also, I don't have to 'prove' to anyone that I liked or supported Bernie. You can take my word for it or eff off. I did contribute to his campaign twice, but I'm not posting a copy of my Discover card statement here either.
trof

OP:OK, let's get real.
Hillary Clinton has secured the Democratic party nomination in the general election for the presidency of the United States of America.
If you don't believe this then you are delusional.

I was for Bernie.
I still love Bernie.
I still feel the Bern.
But it's over.

There's not gonna be any magic last minute 'surprise' primary that makes Sanders the nominee.

Maybe you'll hold your nose.
Maybe you'll even throw up in your mouth a little.
But here is one thing you can not do.
Stay home on election day.

You, like me, will/shall/should/must march yourself down to the polling place and vote for Hillary.

Half a loaf IS better than none.
I am convinced that Trump will be the repug nominee unless the repugs can figure a way to screw him out of it.
I'm also convinced that he'll be like the dog who caught the car.
"Now what do I do?"

So, fellow Berners, suck it up, get over it, and do what's best in a bad situation.
Thank you.

[Agnosticsherbet]

1. Thanks.

Time to come together.

[1StrongBlackMan]

2. Some unsolicited advice ...

HIDE!!!! or at least duck!

[pdsimdars]

3. Last post of yours I'll read. . . .

And I like trof (the ring of fire) , you can't have anything to do with them.

[blm]

10. You will be the one missing out. trof is one of the best DUers this board has known.

What you want is for everyone to leave common sense behind - except Bernie Sanders IS as common sense as they come and he will be standing with trof soon and NOT with the Trump supporting BorBust crowd.

You see what you want, I suppose.

[pdsimdars]

24. What are you talking about? He said it was his first posts so how can he be one of the best?

And what a nonsense post. Gimmie a break. I don't go by reputation unless I've seen it myself, I go by what someone says, and what he asked was nonsense. Way to early.
I've missed out on a lot of nonsense. This was just more of it.

[Zynx]

28. One of his first posts in the Primaries forum. He has posted elsewhere.

[JimDandy]

84. Can you find any post where trof enthusiastically supported Bernie

Donate? Canvassed? Phonebanked? Or is that poster just another Bernie Butter? Cooking and Baking is trof's favorite group, not Bernie Sanders. Can't do a search on my mobile.

[blm]

90. A lot of oldtimers here at DU didn't/won't jump into divisive mode during

primaries because of what has occurred in past primaries.

I had older DUers supporting Sanders messaging me thanks for trying to curb some of the rhetoric from the newer posters who were repeatedly posting RW propaganda - newer posters we were all pretty certain were trolls based on their preferred sources and their familiar posting patterns.

[trof]

89. Thank you.

[leveymg]

103. To answer your question, no. If the FBI report finds she violated her security oath

her candidacy will be mortally compromised, and she will have to release her delegates. This is a realistic possibility, and contingencies have already been arranged and the process planning managed. We should be talking about who becomes the candidate, and what role we the grassroots should have in that. I would hate to see the DNC parachute someone in solely of their own choosing.

[JaneyVee]

4. INCOMING!!!

K and R and Welcome to DU.

[PowerToThePeople]

5. Fail.

U.

[JudyM]

99. Yep. A narrow opinion masquerading as "reality" again. (Yawn)

[grossproffit]

6. Thank you for posting this.

[Gomez163]

7. BUT BUT HILLARY IS GOING TO BE INDICTED SO FITZMAS!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Indydem]

11. And frogmarched!

[actslikeacarrot]

8. Can I give you some advice?

Trying to get people on board with whatever you want would probably go better if you didn't include "suck it up" and "get over it." I mean you are asking people to get over her awful foreign policy record. That's a bit much to just "get over."

[artislife]

29. The don't get that we can hear their tone. nt

[procon]

30. How 'bout a cookie?

Pass the crackers... have some cheese.

[actslikeacarrot]

41. Tempting. But I'll settle for her supporters...

...to explain to me how they "get over" her many disastrous decisions on foreign policy.

[brush]

55. Didn't she work for Obama? Shouldn't you trash his foreign policy?

[actslikeacarrot]

85. Yes, Obama has several negative marks against him in regarding foreign policy...

..including but not limited to green lighting the surge into Afghanistan in 2009. A move that Clinton supported. Here is an article describing what Clintons role in destabilizing Libya was: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/28/us/politics/hillary-clinton-libya.html?_r=0

You are also conveniently leaving out her time as senator. Where she voted for every war that came her way. Bernie also has some black marks on his record so spare me that line of attack. Obama, and Sanders will not be the candidate the Democrats put forth in the GE. I know that, why do you think I am talking so much about her record?

[procon]

68. Hers? Wasn't Obama still the President?

I'm not aware that the SoS has the same power and authority as the POTUS, or that she could act independently of his policies and agenda. You need to think about your mad before huffing around in snit just because Hillary Clinton topped the primaries. Its over, yeah? She's no longer Obama's Secretary of State, she's the presumptive nominee for the Democratic Party. Done. You have other options...go find 'em.

[FlatBaroque]

9. Trash thread

and put the trash on the curb

[Chasstev365]

12. If I start to see Hillary supporters taking your tone, I will considered it

However, there are some Hillary supporters on DU (I wish I could call them out by name), that have taken such sheer delight in ridiculing Bernie and his supporters that it will be difficult for me. They are also completely ignorant of the basic ideals of the Democratic Party. While I would never vote Republican, I could see myself leaving the top spot blank on November 8, 2016. Will they mock this post too?

[TM99]

13. Yeah, I don't recall seeing much from you about Sanders

so forgive me if this sounds like all of the other trolling horseshit that has been promulgated here.

Suck it up, get over, and do what's best in a bad situation?

Well you are right. I have sucked it up, and I am not done campaigning for my candidate as yours has not yet secured the nomination. If that occurs, I will immediately get over it, and the best choice for me in this bad situation is not to vote for either the Republican or the Republican lite. Thanks for your concern!

[djean111]

14. Awwwww, another "Bernie, BUT" OP! How cute! And the format is different! Sorta!

You suck it up. And stop giving orders, okay?
'bye.

[Punkingal]

15. Everyone will "get over it" on their own timetable.

You can't just take someone's advice when it comes to how you feel about something and "get over it." I appreciate your effort, and i don't mean to be snarky.

[LiberalElite]

16. No. eom

[demwing]

17. You don't understand what Bernies started

It's not even close to over

[MillennialDem]

18. Yes she has the democratic nomination. But she won't have my vote.

[SFnomad]

22. tRump thanks you for your support n/t

[MillennialDem]

31. No, the revolution does. Change will not come from above.

[athena]

39. Did George W. Bush winning start a revolution?

Did it move the Democratic Party left, as the Nader voters thought it would?

It didn't. It did the opposite. When the Democrats lose, they move right, not left. Not voting will send the opposite message from what you think it will send.

[MillennialDem]

44. I wouldn't call Obama right of the Clintons, and certainly not the Clintons of the 90s.

[athena]

47. You did not answer my question.

We're talking about 2000, not 2008.

Would Gore have been better than George W. Bush? Would there have been an Iraq War with Gore as president? Would there have been any ISIS? Would the world have been a better place or a worse place?

Perhaps you're too young to remember, but I can tell you that when George W. Bush won, the Democratic Party moved way right. It took six years of hard work on the part of liberals to bring the Democratic Party back enough to the left to support someone like Obama.

[MillennialDem]

49. Now you're changing the question. Show me how the DEMOCRATIC party moved to the

right after Bush.

[athena]

67. You're the one evading the question.

In any case, this is not a discussion. I've made my points. You chose not to respond to them, instead resorting to the usual Bernie-supporter tactic of twisting the argument into a pretzel to the point where no one knows what anyone is talking about. If you really think this is a good use of your time, there is nothing more I can say to you.

[morningfog]

54. Bush didn't win. Fuck that.

[athena]

61. He became president, which wouldn't have happened if Naderites had voted for Gore.

They sure taught Gore a lesson!

I was sympathetic to pro-Nader arguments back then. I learned my lesson. I guess some people didn't.

[morningfog]

62. He didn't win. It was stolen. Full stop.

[athena]

65. You didn't respond to my point. Would Bush have won if Naderites had voted for Gore?

[morningfog]

69. Bush did not win. Your "point" begins with a fatal premise.

[athena]

72. Would Bush have been president if Naderites had voted for Gore?

Again, typical Bernie-supporter tactic: pick at the words to avoid responding to a legitimate point a Hillary supporter makes. It may amuse you, but it doesn't convince anyone of anything -- except perhaps that Bernie supporters don't have any arguments.

[morningfog]

75. Lol. I don't know what bee is in your bonnet.

I have fought against the premis you have pushed since 2000, long before there were Bernie supporters in 2016. So, first off, relax.

To answer your new question, I still reject the premise. You can't assume naderites would have voted for Gore had Nader not run. Further, if Nader had not run and who knows what the margin would have been or what bush would have done to steal it. I do not accept any premise that legitimizes the bush theft by blaming voters.

Not that it matters in the least, but I was a Gore supporter in 2000.

[liberalnarb]

96. Yes.

The whole election was rigged from the beginning. Nader or no Nader, Bush supporters ran the whole election. His campaign manager was in charge of counting the votes in Florida, his brother was the Governor, his cousin was even the guy who called the race for him a Faux noise. Nader didn't help, but it wasn't his fault.

[jcgoldie]

40. There's no fucking revolution

It's an election. It's how grownups in a democracy make real choices about policy.

[MillennialDem]

45. zzz

[avaistheone1]

95. And it is broken.

[LibDemAlways]

32. You don't get it. So the poster doesn't intend to

vote for Hillary. That's the poster's decision and does not equate to a vote for Trump.

If the Democratic Party chooses to nominate a weak candidate with a long record of poor decision making and tons of baggage, and a voter chooses not to vote for that candidate, that's not the voter's fault. It's the party's and the candidate's.

[athena]

46. Consider the following scenario.

Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that there are only 1000 people in the country.

450 are conservative, and 550 liberal.

Out of the 450 conservatives, 250 vote for Trump. The rest stay home because they can't be bothered to vote.

Out of the 550 liberals, 200 vote for Hillary. Another 100 vote for Jill Stein or stay home.

Who wins? Who would have won if the 100 disaffected liberals had held their noses and voted for the candidate representing their party? How can you argue that a liberal who is deliberately choosing not to vote, or voting for a write-in candidate, is not helping Trump win?

This really shouldn't need explanation, but I guess some of Bernie's supporters are so new to politics that they genuinely don't realize that not voting is equivalent to letting the opposition win.

Not voting is not an act of activism or revolution. It's the ultimate act of passiveness. When you don't vote, you make yourself indistinguishable from someone who doesn't follow politics or someone who is a right-winger but can't be bothered to vote.

[MillennialDem]

48. I can vote for whomever I want. EDIT: And I'm well aware how math works.

[athena]

53. Did anyone tell you otherwise?

Again, typical Bernie-supporter tactic. When someone points out to you that by not voting, you will be helping elect Trump, you ignore all the logical arguments the person made, and say your vote is yours.

This is now the third time a Bernie supporter has done this to me. This must be a tactic you guys have agreed on: when a Hillary supporter tells you that not voting for Hillary in the general election will help elect Trump, accuse them of threatening you and state that you have the right to vote for whoever you want.

That does not make it a logical argument. In fact, your failure to respond logically, and choosing instead to repeat a Bernie talking point shows that you are not here to have a discussion.

You are free to vote for whoever you want. As I pointed out to one of your colleagues who made the same argument, I, personally, don't care who you vote for. I can always move to Canada, since I have Canadian citizenship. You, however, probably don't have that option and will actually have to live in the United States under Trump. So be my guest. If eight years of a Trump presidency is what it takes for you to realize that not voting is not a smart move, then so be it.

[MillennialDem]

56. Working on my German citizenship (grandfather was a holocaust survivor) and I'll be out of here too,

and as I said I'm well aware how math works. I'm not going to vote for that woman who does not want to change the system and moreover whether I vote or not will NOT have any impact on this election. You really think the presidential election will be determined by ONE vote?

[athena]

59. Germany has its problems, too.

My German friends tell me about the serious right-wing movement there. Moreover, having lived in Europe, I happen to know that things aren't as hunky-dory there as one might think. They have great public transportation but suffer from serious xenophobia.

As I said, I have enough life experience to realize that many people will need actual first-hand experience to realize that their actions are a mistake. No amount of reasonable argument will convince them otherwise.

[MillennialDem]

60. No place on Earth is all hunky-dory. And I notice you didn't address my point: one vote will not

determine who is sworn in January of 2017.

[athena]

64. One vote, multiplied many times, does make a difference.

You've been responding to me all over the place with one-line posts. I can't keep track of every single argument you make, or claim to make, in a hundred posts.

In any case, by your logic, no one has to vote.

For the n'th time, feel free to not vote. As a matter of fact, given the arguments you make, I don't believe you would have voted anyway. So nothing is lost. Don't vote. Be my guest. Stay home, or vote for Trump. Do whatever floats your boat.

[MillennialDem]

66. And apparently you don't understand game theory. Yes, one vote multiplied many times makes a

difference. But my vote is multiplied by ONE. My one vote will not make a difference, period. Even if Bernie is the nominee, it makes sense (wasted time, gas) for me to not vote. I only do it because I like the candidate or want to stick it in the republicans' eyes. But it has never and will never make a difference.

I could do that again (I've been doing it in every primary, general, and special election since 2006 and a few before that) but I cannot in good conscience do that in 2016. We need a revolution, not more of the same.

[athena]

70. I have a Ph.D. in physics

and am always amused when a Bernie supporter on DU accuses me of not understanding math.

I wouldn't be so sure, by the way, that one vote never makes a difference. A recent election in my town was decided by three votes.

Good luck starting a revolution by not voting. I already addressed this, but as a typical Bernie supporter, you don't actually respond to any substantive points, instead looking for a single point you can argue against, and then focus only on that.

[MillennialDem]

73. Cool story. I have a master's in math. And when did I say I wouldn't vote in state and

local elections? I look quite forward to voting for Feingold. For a national election it has never mattered and will never matter. And it especially won't matter in Wisconsin (because if Wisconsin goes red, the democrats are going to lose no matter what as Florida, Ohio, Virginia, and Iowa will also go red).

[TheKentuckian]

97. No PhD required to grasp addition. No vote other than for a candidate can add to their tally.

You are trying to count votes that haven't been cast and then apportion them in advance almost like you feel someone's vote is owned by someone or some party rather than the individual.

[redstateblues]

77. If you think she is weak what does that make Bernie

Who is losing by a significant margin in votes and delegates

[Fumesucker]

19. It depends on what the definition of "it" is

[hobbit709]

20. Depends on the definition of "it"

[DisgustipatedinCA]

21. I think the nomination will be hers.

As for the rest--redacted.

[runaway hero]

23. Agreed

Time to focus on the general. Hillary needs to rest.

[lostnfound]

25. Hahahahaha.

She's not even done digging the grave yet for her political life? No, for the American left? and you're asking about November?

I'll be celebrating in November, because you know, it's my birthday.
What a joke.

It's okay, maybe she will have Ivanka's support again like in 2016.

[BernieforPres2016]

26. Is this the kind of shit David Brock is paying for?

If so, he should demand his money back.

[blm]

104. trof is an original DUer who avoided the divisive Primaries forum here - YOU want to

backtrack on the knee jerking reply you submitted?

trof isn't the only old-timer here who supported Bernie while avoiding the @sshat behavior of GD-P.

Some people supported Bernie for REAL as REAL Democrats, and some here POSED as Sanders supporters as they spread RW propaganda for GOP operations.

Dividing Dems on Dem forums…...Is that the shit that Reince Priebus is paying for?

[rateyes]

27. Nope

[lmbradford]

33. Nope

BYE

[vintx]

34. Pass

Been holding my nose for decades.

To vote for a kissinger-loving, labor-exploiting, coup-supporting fracking advocate is unthinkable.

[LuvLoogie]

35. The Revolution will not be euthanized.

[All in it together]

36. No one "has" it until the Democratic National Convention.

[Raine1967]

37. I'm gonna take the advice of Takei (along with yours)

https://www.facebook.com/georgehtakei/videos/1559267340769380/

I am sorrowed by some responses in this thread.

[Armstead]

38. This is a discussion board...Until Skinner pulls the switch..

People discuss. It's not like we're on CNN anything where there are many people paying attention.

[aikoaiko]

42. This is satire, right?

Otherwise you sound like a typical Clintonista.

[byyiminy]

43. no

[Demsrule86]

50. Thanks

Appreciate your comments

[jillan]

51. Does she have 2383 pledged delegates? No she

doesn't.

Those are the rules.

[dubyadiprecession]

52. There may be alot of noise coming out of the dying BS campaign...

but, yes Hillary is going to be the democratic party nominee.

[tularetom]

57. I haven't sat out an election in my life

I voted absentee in the 1962 election while I was stationed in Texas, and I've voted in every election since.

Maybe I'm pissed off about the presidential choices but there's so much more at stake at the congressional, state and local level.

Besides the country survived 8 years of Bush and 8 years of Bill Clinton, I think it can survive Hillary or Trump.

[Frances]

78. I am not sure the country can survive Trump

[Logical]

58. FFS "I was for Bernie"? OK. nt

[Pastiche423]

63. Never!

[amborin]

71. No; Hillary still needs 70% of the remaining delegates, i believe; this will go to the convention

[Karma13612]

74. No deal. eom

[SalviaBlue]

76. I haven't voted yet.

There is absolutely no reason for me to give up my voice/vote.

Talk to me when the primaries are over.

[JimDandy]

80. LOL look who recced the post! LOL.

To those poor desperate dears: my vote is my own and what I do on election day is for me to know and...

You reap what you sow.

[JimDandy]

81. Can you link me to a post...or 100, that shows you supported Bernie.

On a mobile, can't search.

[seekthetruth]

82. Until she changes her stances on a lot of issues.....

She has no vote from me. I'm voting my conscience.

[Silver_Witch]

83. Nope - not gonna...

Last edited Thu Apr 28, 2016, 12:33 AM - Edit history (1)

Hold my nose or throw-up in my mouth again. Not doing it. I will vote my heart and where my conscious tells me to vote.

There is no REASON to keep posting this crap. IF you want to change more power to you...vote for who you will. I will vote for who I will.

If Hillary wins the primary and then looses the General Election - that is on her and her supporters.

Thanks so much for sharing though.

[840high]

86. .that^ X100

[Maru Kitteh]

87. Thank you trof. as a 2008 Hill supporter who watched it all fall apart 8 years ago and then

went through all the grief stages myself;

I'm not voting for him, I'll never vote for him. Good luck without us! . . .

I'll vote for him but I'll be holding my nose and don't expect any of my money . . .

Ok long story short. I ended up giving some money to his first campaign, more money and my time to the second and I've been proud to call him my President and now look forward to the election of his Secretary of State.

But the point is - I remember very well how much it genuinely stings. So thank you. Now let's go get those Republican bastards.

[Joob]

88. LOL no. I won't. Actually, she seems like the worse choice to me, in regards to possible war.

[Bobbie Jo]

91. trof is a solid DU'er

so I appreciate the post.


Some of these folks I just don't recognize at all.

[trof]

94. Thank you very much.

[Orsino]

92. Why is that agreement, on an Internet message board, important to you right now?

Are you even clear on what "it" is?

The nomination will be done at the convention. Your new candidate, if she has the staying power, seems likely to be there to accept it. Is that not enough for now?

[yuiyoshida]

93. "suck it up, get over it"

That's what REPUBLICANS said when GEORGE W BUSH stole the election. Amazing that anyone would use that phrase now, and on DU.

[Snotcicles]

98. +1.nt

[Hiraeth]

100. She definitely has that certain, undefinable IT thing going for her.

[Maedhros]

101. I am doing what is best - I'm not enabling the neoliberal agenda.

The more we enable it, the more we will see of it.

[2banon]

102. ABSOLUTELY NOT. This belongs in the Compost Bin.

Dismissing California is beyond insulting and deeply offensive.