Once again the people in the towers defeat progressive populism

[Armstead]

This campaign was really about what has been called the battle for the soul of the Democrstic Party.

The center right status quo corporate Democratic Party vs, the populist progressive liberal Democratic Party.

Once again the Status Quo flexed its muscles and put the populist side in its place.

I realize its not that simple. Its a mixed bag. The epitomie of that are all the people who claim "I agree with Bernie, but The country's not ready for that."

But face it. The ones who really call the shots are those who are not the friend of the middle class or the disadvantaged. They are the people in the towers and the mansions. They may be Pro Choice, but when it comes to giving workers and consumers and the poor a break.....Forget it.

They are great at marketing, so we convince ourselves otherwise. And we elect people who say the things we want to hear... Until they get into office and are behind closed doors.

They are the ones who won yet again.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

1. You can't be a successful populist without the populace.

The American electorate has more moderates than conservatives, and more conservatives than liberals. That's not a fertile ground for left-wing populism.

[JimDandy]

5. Going to be interesting to see what the Sanders populists do in the GE

[Armstead]

9. It is not a question of moderates

I'm a moderate....

I agree with the speeches of Obama more often than not.

Its a matter of institutional behavior behind closed doors And who is calling the shots.

[pangaia]

16. Your last sentence is the monster in the closet...even with the door partially open...

The monster still rules....

[Armstead]

21. And we keep feeding it

[B Calm]

40. You hear that listening to Rush Limbaugh?

[Demsrule86]

2. I hear you

But your friends will be in way more trouble should Trump or Cruz win. Those who choose to sit out the election or go to the convention (ahem)...how will you feel when Trump rounds up men ,women and kids and shoves them in camps...or whatever he will do.

[Armstead]

11. That won't say much for the Democratic Party if they can't...

prevent Trump from rounding peopke up.

And I didn't mention sitting it out..

[pampango]

8. "Bernie isn't God and Hillary isn't the devil. Ordinary people supported each of them."

Well said.

When most voters do not agree with me, I am left searching for reasons ('excuses' in the eyes of some). It is not a good feeling. In our binary world everything seems to come down to 'good vs evil', my candidate (good) vs your candidate (evil) when the world does not work like that.

[Armstead]

15. I said in the OP it is not only binary

That makes it more difficult.

Disliking the GOP is easy because you onow where they stand.

But having to deal with a party that on one hand says what I want to hear, and then sides with Big Money too often......ugh

[JimDandy]

12. What we all know is that millions of Sanders supporters who voted

for him and millions more independents who were frustrated from doing so will 'Deal with it' in the GE. I can hardly wait until then. Bookmarking.

[pangaia]

17. Of course..All those minority and working class voters for Hillary are NOT just people in towers.

It is the people in the towers who are the people in the towers.

Whomever does not see it, is still blind to it, or chooses not to fight.

[NurseJackie]

4. So, you're saying that the perfect candidate has run the perfect campaign? And ...

... he was just beaten down unfairly? Or are you saying that voters are too stupid and too gullible?

Frankly, if he's doing this poorly against the "flawed" and "tarnished" and "corrupt" and "incompetent" Hillary, then he wouldn't have a prayer against the well-funded GOP (while he willingly campaigns like a pauper).

I'm glad you're seeing reality. But wallowing in self pity, blaming others for Bernie's shortcomings, and disparaging our party's nominee is really unbecoming.

It's undignified and it really does nothing to help your cause, or any of the things you claim are important to you. It needs to stop.



-----
"Bernie ran as a Democrat when it suited him. Now it's time for him to man up as a Democrat and support the party he has used throughout his campaign. It's time for him to heal the wounds that he has inflicted. It's time for him to talk some sense into his followers." ~Anne Rice

[trumad]

7. I guess 400,000 more live in the towers.

Hillary is crushing him with the popular vote.

Pretty damn big tower.

[Armstead]

23. That's because they'r believing what she says

I used to believe what Bill Clinton said too...until I finally caught on to that mistake.

[trumad]

27. So a bunch of sucka's.

Dear Baby Jesus...please put the eternal wisdom of BSers into my soul and make us see the light....the light of self-righteousness!

[Armstead]

30. No the light of a little investigation -- I've often been a sucka for their line too

Wonderful words they give us.

But when it comes time to make the sausage, it's a different matter. They're willing to put feces in there to satisfy the pepoe they are accountable to.

[trumad]

44. A little investigation into what?

Do you think I've been here for the last 15 years for the lounge?

[uponit7771]

35. Team Used Car Salesmen (Devine Weaver) isn't credible and have no concrete answers after promising

... he does

[jcgoldie]

26. I think you forgot a zero (nt)

[Armstead]

18. Its not self pity...My life will go with the usual ups and downs

And this is not just about Bernie or even Hillary.....The names change but the patterns stay tge same.

They tell us one thing to get our votes and then do things totaly different behind clised doors.

[BeyondGeography]

6. You can't say Bernie didn't get a fair hearing

or that a lot of people didn't listen. He did extremely well for a guy who basically came from nowhere with a lot of casual voters. The contrast with Clinton was strong and so was his presentation. In the end, more people felt more comfortable with Clinton's ability to win in November and defend their interests as President, and many of them were poor and middle class. People in towers didn't call the shots, voters did. Fair result.

Meaningful, too. Especially the response of younger voters. Their views on American capitalism are understandably not as sanguine as prior generations and Sanders left a permanent mark on many of them re. what government should deliver and how it should function. That was a very good thing, and if the Democratic Party doesn't turn in their direction with responsive policies, it will suffer.

[pangaia]

19. Your last two sentences....

Sanders left a permanent mark on many of them re. what government should deliver and how it should function. That was a very good thing, and if the Democratic Party doesn't turn in their direction with responsive policies, it will suffer.

This is true. And what it admits is that the young DO IN FACT see the horror, while "prior generations," as you phrase it, DO NOT !!

That the Democratic Party AND the voters did not turn in that direction this time, might just make the possibility of saving ourselves from the yoke of unfettered capitalism, greed and arrogance, lost.

[Armstead]

24. I don't think anyone gets a fair hearing in our corporate political system

The contrast between the Bernie depicted in the campaign and media and Bernie when he is allowed to be Bernie is striking.

The guy could have been a great CEO of our country. He knows policy beyond his ideological sound bites, and he knows how to get things done in a pragmatic sense. His effectiveness as Mayor of Burlington in the nits and bolts of budgeting, and getting good people into government and energizing political participation...

We lost a golden opportunity to actually DO what rank and file Democrats want, and what the leaders promise to do but seldom deliver.

[Armstead]

31. Don't get me started on the media.....That goes beyond individual candidates

I was recently watching some slightly older videos of debates done for races produced by regional media outlets on a state level....The contrast is striking.

No audience. Moderators who were real reporters. Everyone sitting down in a studio.

In that contest, the candidates actually spoke like real people. Explained their positions. Had some actual discussions with opponents.

A stark contrast to the WWE, Super Bowl Roman Coliseum environment of the presidential debates, with their fanfares, Jerry Springer crowds, and where every lift of the eyebrow is scrutinized, and politicians play their "role" to score cheap points.

[BeyondGeography]

37. Burlington wasn't part of the stump speech though

Last edited Wed Apr 27, 2016, 09:27 AM - Edit history (1)

And that was aired multiple times. His lack of party ID was another problem, not just with getting endorsements but as a personal choice that reflected a preference for purity over practical politics. Fine if you're the Senator from VT, less so as President. Once you get to the White House you do need a friend or two who can run interference for you in Washington, and he hasn't cultivated many friends. When I thought of a Sanders presidency it felt like gridlock squared. The absence of any foreign policy depth was another problem.

The one time Sanders was a CEO he did a great job, but that was Burlington, not the capital of empire that is Washington. And, again, he did nothing to inform voters how that experience would make him an effective President.

[Armstead]

38. I think he screwed up on that

If I were on his campaign staff I would have focused on the combination of that with this time in DC (where he was effective in a different way) --- and recruited some people from Burlington at the time to go out and testify for his ability and experience as both an executive and a leader who got people involved and got things done.....Different scale but same skill set.

But to the larger point of the OP, this is larger than either him or Clinton.

[Cosmocat]

10. I voted Bernie yesterday

As I have known for just about a year now.

Hillary won the night, and pretty much has the nomination secured, as I have known since I knew I was voting bernie.

Hillary certainly has had the support of the esrablishment all along, but she the rich have a LOT less votes than the poor and middle class, and shes where she is because a lot of average people identify with her.

This election, including trump is a reflection of the fact that this country just is bot as thoughtful and measured as we may be ...

[firebrand80]

13. Bernie just wasn't a good enough candidate

I suppose it's easier to shift the blame

[pampango]

14. I would agree if Bernie were leading in the popular and delegate vote then the superdelegates

handed the nomination to Hillary.

[Broward]

20. The rank and file shoot themselves in the foot again.

[Arneoker]

22. Actually I agree more with Hillary than with Bernie

Although Bernie has a lot of good ideas. Like Hillary, he wants to focus on giving the middle class and disadvantaged a break, not the richest amongst us.

Can't stay around too much. Later I have to check on the wife and child, now sleeping on the top floor of our palace, which looms one story above the ground!

[jcgoldie]

25. Seems like

There's millions and millions of people in towers... like a few million more than otherwise.

[Armstead]

28. I'm not talking about the ones buying the product.....

It's the people behind the scenes manufacturing and marketing the product who are the problem.

A lot of people (myself included sometimes, I'll admit) shop at Wal Mart and grab burgers from McDonalds even though it's bad for us.

[beachbum bob]

32. Most of us over 45 don't live in towers but in the real world

where capitalism is not pure evil...where hard work does pay off and we want a leader who can fight and win against the right-wing... Not some one who has spent a lifetime critically attacking and not showing much for it...we need a leader that can work with others....a leader who can call for the kill shot... a leader who can stand their ground against the hate if conservatives but also work with them when possible...we need leader who understands that safeguarding America sometimes need military might and not hesitate... to me these things make Hillary way more qualified to be our next president...

[auntpurl]

36. Excellent post.

I agree completely.

[Armstead]

41. Your cute little dismissiveness aside...most who support Sanders...

do not believe capitalism is "pure evil."

But it's a matter of what type of capitalism and how it relates to our political system, government and overall values.It's about how system operates and where it is dysfunctional.


I won't deal with your other mischaracterizations the personal characteristics.

[beachbum bob]

42. You are so kind..

[seabeyond]

33. Clinton was the better candidate and the voters spoke.

[uponit7771]

34. Mr "we'll see" isn't the standard for progressiveness for America

[Meldread]

39. It is insulting to claim that...

It is insulting to claim that somehow those of us on the left somehow let the left down by voting for Hillary. I am decidedly to the left of Bernie Sanders on a lot of issues (like privacy and guns), and I agree with him on most others. However, I still voted for Hillary. It was not an enthusiastic vote, but it was a vote that I felt I had to cast when faced with the two choices. Why?

Bernie Sanders would have made a horrible leader. He said lots of populist things, but he was making promises that he knew he couldn't keep. I was looking past the election and on into governance. We have just spent the past eight years with a President who has faced the most obstructionist Congress in the entire history of the United States. There is no reason to believe that nominating Bernie Sanders and making him President would change that. To make matters worse, he had never really been politically attacked before--not in the way that Republicans would have savaged him (the way they would savage ANY nominee we put forward). The man was struggling under the relatively weak taunts and attacks of Hillary Clinton who has been treating him with kid gloves throughout, in the hopes of not permanently alienating his supporters.

Bernie Sanders promised a Revolution. Yet, he could not even rally the party around him. He was not bringing in numbers greater than Obama in 2008. In most places, voting is down in our election cycle. For a candidate promising to bring the Revolution, this should not be the case. Plus, it was not as if there were millions upon millions of Independents on the sidelines just waiting to throw themselves at Bernie Sanders. In fact, in my state Independents could vote in the Primary, and Bernie Sanders still lost my state. Toward the end, rather than promising the Revolution, he was relegated to promising to win the same way Clinton would have attempted to win in 2008--by trying to persuade Super Delegates. This is not the mark of a candidate who has the support of the populist majority.

I knew that if Bernie Sanders were actually successful, he would have broken the heart of every one of his supporters. He would have become President, and would have immediately become a lame duck. Not only would he have the Republicans working against him, he would have had all of the Third Way Democrats working against him as well--the majority in Congress. He would have no allies in D.C. Thus, every promise he made would remain unfulfilled, he would likely lose after his first term, and most of his supporters would throw up their hands in frustration and check out of the system entirely--hurting the liberal movement in the long run.

I desperately wanted Bernie Sanders to prove me wrong. The test case for me was how he dealt with DWS. She is supposed to be neutral, she is obviously a Third Way Democrat, and she is actively working against him. He had the ability to call her out. She was being primaried. He had the ability to endorse, support, and campaign for her primary opponent. He had the ability to demand that she step down from the DNC (as his loyal supporter would have replaced her, this was the obvious thing he should have pushed for--to make sure he had maximum influence at the Convention at the very least). He did nothing. He let DWS walk all over him. That's when I knew that as President, the Third Way Democrats would use him as their door mat.

So, I had to make a political calculation. I know that my generation, Millennials, are vastly more liberal than any other generation. This is one of the reasons the Democratic Party is being pushed further and further to the left, more so than they were even in 2008, and even more so than they were in 2000 when I voted for the first time. There is an opening to seize control over the party, and it is certain that the next Nominee that we have after Clinton is going to be more liberal than her. This is because that is where the base of the party is as well as the up-and-coming generation. So, it makes sense to bridge the gap with another Obama Democrat like Hillary. Let her have her little turn, and then spend that time working to bring true liberals into positions of power and influence throughout the country. That way when it comes time again to run for President we have a strong stable of candidates to choose from with a list of actual liberal accomplishments.

As a bonus, I know Clinton isn't going to roll over the way Obama has constantly. She is used to trench warfare, and is not afraid to engage the Republicans with equally brutal tactics. This was something that Bernie Sanders would never do, because like Obama, he prefers to take the High Road. It may allow him to claim moral superiority, but it comes at the cost of losing. I am not interested in feeling morally superior, I am interested in pushing the most liberal agenda that I can get put into law.

So, that was the reason for my vote for Hillary. I believed that it was better to win with her, and then let her be blamed for the Third Way bullshit that she will inevitably pull once in office. The alternative was to win with Bernie Sanders, and be responsible for his failures. This would have hurt the liberal cause, by causing many of his supporters to disengage from the process entirely believing that the system would never work in their favor. Instead, I knew there had to be less focus on a fight for who became President, and more a focus on those who run for Congress and on state races. That is how liberalism wins--by seizing control of the machine--and by ensuring that every primary election all of the candidates are further to the left than those who ran in the previous cycle.

I mean, truly, it's as if I was the only one awake during the "Hope and Change" election of 2008, and then witnessed the consequences and kept track of all the unfilled promises. Bernie Sanders was that election on steroids, and a victory by him would have severely damaged the long term liberal movement. It is completely possible to win a battle and still lose the war.

[Armstead]

43. I don't care about which candidate people preferred personally

That's what makes horse-racing.

The (highly debatable) claim that Clinton is "effective" and "electable" is understandable as a selling point. I don't begrudge people who made that choice.

But the way Clinton won, and the crap flung by the Democratic Establishment was inexcusable. They were not only going after Bernie -- they were out to kill his message and what he stands for and represents.

It was the Clinton/DLC/Third Way alliance clamping down on liberalism and progressive populism. It has been trying to stifle the growing awareness that the Democratic Party is not much better in terms of Systemic Corruption and is too beholden to Wall St. and Big Business to truly represent average people and the disadvantaged.

It's been about dismissing as "ponies" perfectly reasonable liberal goals -- which once were the bedrock of the Democratic Party -- such as truly universal and affordable healthcare through public coverage, universal public education, and asserting public control over the excessive power and abusiveness of Big Banks and Monopolistic Corporations.

I like Obama a lot, and believe in many of the things he professes to believe.....But the problem with Obama's Hope and Change was NOT the stated goals which people were supporting. .........It's the fact that he did not follow through with that spirit. Instead he succumbed to the Third Way influence and alignments, attempted to compromise TOO MUCH with the GOP, and pushed crap like the TPP...I think if Obama had been more committed to the positions and message and spirit of Bernie, he'd have been an FDR and we'd be a lot further along in a positive direction.

[Robbins]

45. Then you just voted against progressivism

now dems will have nominated a center-right neo con corporist who despite what they say in interviews and on campagin trail will sign a lot of what GOP Congress wants.

in reality noone will be there for us In january 2017.clinton or trump the corporist will have the government they want.

There is no place for liberals anymore In Democratic party.many so called liberals have been exposed as corporists by supporting
Clinton and supporting her during her move to right,clintons racist statement,liberals compared by bill clinton to tea party and
wanting to commit murder,and perfectly fine with massive voter fraud.

it's personly for me since as disabled american clinton would go along with cutting my benefits to give more more to wall street
and to fund more war.

Nominating clinton is guranteeing GOP control of house for decades to come.since dems will be killed in 2018 midterms now and
GOP will contol redistrcting after 2020.and before long it will be one party rule in US-GOP

there is no liberal agenda in democratic party with clinton.

this was our last cahcne to change democratic party and fight for democracy.both are gone now.

well enjoy right wing government In US from now on.