NYC Provisional Ballots May be Counted, Possibly Changing Result

[KamaAina]

http://www.occupyliberals.com/2016/04/22/breaking-nyc-provisional-ballots-may-counted-possibly-changing-result/

As NYC Sanders forces and those joining them from around the country protested in front of the courthouse, a judge who ruled against a lawsuit’s request to allow independent voters to vote, also ruled that all other points in the lawsuit may move forward.

This means that the vast number of provisional ballots, also called affidavit ballots, cast by Democratic primary voters in the NY primary may be counted after all.

The Inquistr reports:
Brooklyn, New York, Bernie Sanders’ hometown, was reportedly the most badly affected area for hopeful voters. Just before polls closed at 9 p.m., the polling site coordinator of Brooklyn Borough Hall estimated that about one-tenth of all voters who showed up to vote there had been removed by the Board and were unable to vote using a standard ballot. According to the New York Times election results, among standard votes that were counted after the primary, 174,236 votes had been cast for Clinton and 116,327 votes were cast for Bernie Sanders in Brooklyn. From the Clinton after-election party at The Sheraton, Ed Schultz of RT reported, “The results tonight don’t really matter.” Schultz thinks that the provisional ballots and pending audit could even affect Clinton’s Big Apple win....

Sanders supporters from around the country are encouraged to travel to NYC to support the protesters, who may possibly begin an Occupy Wall Street style encampment near the court to support the lawsuit 24/7. The NYC Comptroller, Scott Stringer, a Clinton superdelegate, has independently recognized the magnitude of possible voter disenfranchisement in the NY primary and has announced his own audit, saying in a press release:
“There is nothing more sacred in our nation than the right to vote, yet election after election, reports come in of people who were inexplicably purged from the polls, told to vote at the wrong location or unable to get in to their polling site,” Comptroller Stringer said. “The people of New York City have lost confidence that the Board of Elections…”

[MattP]

1. Ed Shultz? Isn't he running a vegan farm or something

I remember him saying the polls are wrong and Walker was going down in the recall

[snowy owl]

28. Irrelevent. Do you have something interesting to say about the issue?

[Kip Humphrey]

2. Cry to the revolution! OCCUPY THE VOTE!

[Zynx]

3. I very much doubt they will have a material outcome, but by all means count them.

I'm in favor of that.

[COLGATE4]

5. It won't make any difference to the outcome.

Hillary still wins NY.

[Ghost Dog]

10. Delegates count in your electoral strange mathematical functions

Nothing else.

[COLGATE4]

12. That's correct. That's why Hillary will win.

[snowy owl]

29. People like their votes to count. Don't you?

[COLGATE4]

44. Count them all. It stlll won't change the outcome.

[artislife]

4. Why wouldn't they count the provisional ballots?

[Wilms]

7. They are only counted if the voter is determined to be eligible.

There may be a lot of registered independents who voted provisionally not realizing they're not eligible. Their votes won't be counted. Some may have done so after being prompted via the hope of the lawsuit that was filed to open voting to indys. Their votes won't be counted either.

[randome]

8. That's why they're called 'provisional'. They only count if the voter meets the criteria.

In NY you have to be a member of the Democratic Party to vote for a Democratic nominee. I guess they could count everyone who SAYS they registered on time even if there's no evidence of that, but the likely result is that both Sanders and Clinton will get more votes, which would actually benefit Clinton.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Precision and concision. That's the game.[/center][/font][hr]

[LiberalFighter]

17. They are likely to go down the way you described.

Also, the only benefit to Clinton would be popular vote. But not additional delegates at either the district or state level. Depending on number of delegates available at the district level the spread in votes would have to be anywhere from 14 to 16.

In the case of the at-large delegates it would require a change of more than 33,658 votes. PLEO delegates allocation would require a change of more than 60,585 votes.

[artislife]

25. Yes, I meant the qualified provisional ballots. nt

[jeff47]

13. Provisional ballots are almost never counted, in any state.

They are a placebo intended to get the voter to just go away.

[artislife]

26. This is what I am afraid of.

[snowy owl]

31. In many primaries, they are never counted. I don't get that.

They deserve to be examined at least.

[oberliner]

39. This is a lie

Most provisional ballots are counted.

[jeff47]

48. Nope.

Usually, getting your provisional ballot counted requires doing something awkward in a very short timeframe.

For example, you have to go to the BoE between 8 and 4 in the next three days, and present a host of documentation that takes more than a week to procure if you do not have it on hand.

...assuming it's even possible to get that necessary paperwork. It's not like those Democrats who suddenly became Republicans will be able to show documentation that they did not register as Republicans. How, specifically, do you expect them to show they did not file a change of registration form?

[oberliner]

49. About 80 percent of provisional ballots get counted nationwide on average

Check out this table:

http://www.eac.gov/assets/1/AssetManager/2006%20EAVS%20Casting%20and%20Counting%20Provisional%20Ballots.pdf

[randome]

45. If, statistically, they don't affect the outcome, they might not be.

And since there are very few provisional ballots in any election, that's more often true than not.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Precision and concision. That's the game.[/center][/font][hr]

[firebrand80]

6. Most likely would increase Hillary's margin nt

[pnwmom]

9. No, the result won't change. He ruled AGAINST allowing the votes of Independents

to be counted.

And provisional ballots will be counted only if the voters turn out to be on the registration rolls. This is nothing new. That's what always happens with provisional ballots.

But Hillary won by such a wide margin, even in the extremely unlikely even that every single provisional ballot goes to Bernie, she still won NY -- decisively.

[reformist2]

14. Um, the result will change - there will be more votes counted!

I'm getting tired of this attitude that all that matters is who wins, even worse this rush to get a final result. Everyone who votes has a right to see their vote in the final count, no matter whether it affects the outcome or not - or how many days it takes to count them.

[snowy owl]

32. Yep. All votes deserve to be counted. Whatever the outcome.

[dgauss]

11. It will be interesting to see the proportion of the provisional ballot votes

that go to Sanders compared to Clinton. If it was a random occurrence that knocked eligible voters off then I would think Clinton would actually get a larger share of the provisional votes, since she got a larger share of the votes that have already been counted. If that's the case, or even if it was fairly even, it would end a lot of the speculation that Bernie is somehow intentionally getting cheated - the voting process is just generally messed up.

On the other hand, if a much larger percentage of the provisional votes go to Bernie than Clinton, that would merit further investigation.

[reformist2]

16. They likely will go to Bernie, since most provisional voters are "new" voters.

Which then begs the question, was it a coincidence that new voters were treated like crap in NY (and elsewhere), or not??

[dgauss]

18. As I understand it...

The only votes that will be counted are those from voters that were wrongly excluded. If those votes comes in roughly even between Clinton and Sanders votes, then that would indicate a general, unbiased dysfunction in the electoral process.

If it turns out that a high percentage of those excluded were Bernie voters, that would be suspicious. I think this is an interesting test. BTW, I also think it will turn out to be fairly even. I would just like to see some verification of that.

[pnwmom]

20. Where did you get that info? I heard about longtime voters complaining that they'd been purged.

Their recourse was to vote on provisional ballots.

"New" voters won't be counted unless they registered as Dems by October, 2015.

[northernsouthern]

30. Wrong about "new voters"

They had to register by by March I think, people switching had to by October. It is pretty much designed to block independents.

[pnwmom]

33. You're right about that. But where did you hear that new voters weren't turning up on the rolls? n/t

[northernsouthern]

34. I didn't hear that part with any source.

I heard mentions of it, but just on streaming news, The one I was worried about was the number of people that said they were denied a provisional ballot, and the lady that had her vote changed (only heard of the two that happened to in that story though).

[pnwmom]

35. As far as the story about the lady who claims she had her vote changed . . .

they use paper ballots in NY, not machines that could change votes.

[northernsouthern]

47. Yes.

The story was about paper. She was complaining that the ballot was stamped or marked for Hillary.

It was not this story I heard about...
http://www.snopes.com/votes-switched-sanders-clinton/

Or this one on the delegates...
http://www.infowars.com/ny-voter-bernie-supporters-being-forced-to-vote-for-hillary-delegates/


It was the story of the person in line complaining about the ballot being marked wrong. It could have been a derivation of the first or the second article, or it could be what the first article was inspired by. I think someone had posted it on here.

[dgauss]

21. One other thing, I agree that the rules are set against new voters.

It should be easy for anyone that's eligible to vote to vote. But increasingly that's not the case. That's one issue.

I'm just wondering about registered voters in NY and what happened to them. Does it go beyond setting up barriers to vote? Looking at those NY provisional votes should be interesting. If there's nothing there, let's move on. If there is, let's figure out why. That's all.

[hrmjustin]

23. Nope. Here in Brooklyn most of the issues resolved around long term voters.

[Chan790]

43. Generally, yes...but not in this case.

The vast majority of provisional ballots in this race are actually people formerly registered as Democrats whose registrations were switched to unaffiliated without their knowledge or consent under an arcane party rule in NY meant to keep the voter rolls uncluttered that automatically switches your registration if you do not vote in two consecutive primaries or elections (inclusive of all primaries and elections in your precinct in which the Democratic party runs a candidate.) and then removes you entirely as inactive after a third election. (Using my past address in Yonkers, that would mean, for example: If you didn't vote in last year's municipal elections and primaries and skipped the special election to elect a new probate judge (all of which occurred since the last House election in 2014)...you're off the voter rolls.)

Unlike the registered unaffiliated that intentionally registered as such and sued for an open primary, these unaffiliated were allowed to vote provisionally in the primary as the challenge to the legitimacy of this registration-rule is one of the questions still open in the pending litigation.

Edit: Note: It is confusing and incorrect to use the term "independent" to refer to "unaffiliated" voters in NY state as if you write or check the word "independent" in NY, you're actually registered as a member of the Independent party, not as an independent voter. Individuals choosing no party or removed from their party are registered as "unaffiliated."

[LiberalFighter]

19. I agree if a larger percentage go to Bernie.

With my experience with voter registration in Indiana it is not likely the result of intentional disenfranchisement.

Not being familiar with how voter registration is handled when renewing a drivers license or updating address in a state with party affiliation there are likely problems. They should be easily fixed by changing the computer application used. That is a confirmation screen may be needed to ask about that specific question.

[Betty Karlson]

36. Pretty much this:

expose Third Way for the Dead End it is.

[alcibiades_mystery]

15. ...

[hrmjustin]

22. Likely increasing Clinton's margin here in Brooklyn.

I hope they do get counted and I want to know why my brother and friends were prevented from voting last week.

This was no accident.

[ProgressiveEconomist]

24. Ultimate denial fantasy

WINNER!

[silvershadow]

27. wow. bump.

[Trenzalore]

37. Ed Schultz is with RT?

Isn't that a Putin propaganda organization?

[Adrahil]

42. Yup, but dude needed a paycheck, i guess. NT

[leftynyc]

38. Of course count them

Given how large the win was in Brooklyn for Hillary, this should make it even larger. I have zero idea why Bernie supporters think this will help them in the slightest. Even if every provisional vote went for Bernie (that's laughable) - Hillary would still win Brooklyn by double digits.

[Uncle Joe]

41. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, KamaAina.

[Renew Deal]

46. In all likelihood this helps Hillary

It's a pro-Clinton county.

The only person I personally know that had couldn't be found was a Clinton supporter in Manhattan.

I wonder if it helps or hurts anyone in the republican race. Some of those congressional district results were very close.