I find it funny when people invoke FDR to promote Sanders.

[Zynx]

FDR's 1932 campaign was built on the following issues:

1. Austerity - He and the Democratic Party at the time maintained that it had been runaway government spending that had ruined the public finances. They called for a 25% reduction in government expenditures.
2. Free Trade - They called for a drastic reduction in tariffs to open up international markets.
3. Utter and crushing silence on Jim Crow.

I would have struggled in 1932 to see FDR as a crusading progressive. Granted, he evolved on the role of the federal government, but he certainly never ceased being a free trader nor did he take up the cause of civil rights.

If many of you were transported back to those times, you would have hated him.

[FreakinDJ]

1. I find it funny when people invoke Democrat to promote Hillary

[oberliner]

2. Weird how Gun Control never makes these Bernie-Hillary comparison charts

I wonder why that is.

[obamanut2012]

4. You notice that, too?

[AgingAmerican]

6. Probably because she agrees with him on every gun control issue

[oberliner]

17. That's definitely not true

Also, this list says that Hillary supports the Keystone pipeline even though she opposes it.

[NWCorona]

23. It's only now that she doesn't support Keystone

[uponit7771]

38. Irrelevant when, the chart is false and is part of the Sanders noise worship that is oft ignored

[NWCorona]

40. Nope

[uponit7771]

46. So your claim is that she does support TPP?

[Broward]

52. Your adoration for Hillary is touching.

[uponit7771]

53. Your rose colored view of Sanders is scary

[Broward]

54. Your advocacy for Hillary warms my heart.

[uponit7771]

56. thx

[HooptieWagon]

58. She's pro-gun this week in PA.

But the weathervane will shift again.

[Triana]

11. +1

[Agschmid]

31. Ridiculous.

[JonathanRackham]

55. Awesome

[mmonk]

3. I find it interesting the New Democrats (third way) never mention they are and seek to get rid of

New Deal policies while facing the general public.

[AgingAmerican]

5. FDR under the bus by Hillary supporters

[Zynx]

7. No, I'm saying your version of Saint Franklin didn't exist. I think he was the best president.

However, he had a lot of flaws that wouldn't have held up under purist scrutiny. In fact, it didn't even at the time.

[AgingAmerican]

8. Only Hillary supporters call for 'purity'

Your OP is a steaming pile of excrement

[Zynx]

9. Everything in it is true. Also, you guys are the ones that highlight 5-6 positions out of hundreds

to label Hillary as a Republican. That would be a shock to the Republicans.

[Armstead]

14. You lost me at "purist"....a meaningless conservative meme

when I say "conservative" I mean the tendency to hunker down and casually dismiss and denigrate any attempt to raise the bar in terms of goals and values in the public sphere.

[uponit7771]

44. Purist take 10 out of 100 issues and demonize a person with it, like HRC has been done by Sanders

... camp.

There's no way you're going to convince people who don't hate or deeply distrust Clinton that her imperfections disqualify her.

[PragmaticLiberal]

15. Nope....not at all, but I do think the "purest FDR" is a myth.

He's pretty much like every other politician/person I've ever encountered/read about.

Flawed....


(Not a Hillary supporter. Just responding to your statement)

[Trust Buster]

10. They are history challenged. My screen name faces the same scrutiny from the unread.

[Bluenorthwest]

12. I find it funny when Hillary promotes Reagan:

By funny I mean disgusting and frightening.

[uponit7771]

49. Not every adult wants to childishly speak evil of people they don't agree with

[HooptieWagon]

61. She praises Kissinger, Kagan, and Kochs too.

Her supporters approve. No surprise.

[Armstead]

13. Different times AND different actions

I beg to differ. Fiorst of all, "trade" was a totally different issue then.

Yes he did run on balancing the budget -- which like all segments of the economy was in the tank -- but he did not campaign on "austerity" and CONservative slashing of services, or "we can't make changes." Just the op[posite.

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2008/09/10/the-most-consequential-elections-in-history-franklin-delano-roosevelt-and-the-election-of-1932

His platform called for unemployment assistance, old-age insurance under state laws, legislation to protect labor, assistance for farmers, development of power plants, a repeal of Prohibition, and a balanced budget. He promised a "New Deal" for the American people and this became the slogan for FDR's campaign and, later, his administration.

He won the 1932 election in a landslide with 22.8 million votes to Hoover's 15.7 million. ... Journalist William Allen White said FDR's victory showed "a firm desire on the part of the American people to use government as an agency for human welfare." The electorate had, in effect, taken nearly 150 years of tradition upholding limited government and, in their anxiety and anger, thrown it out the window.

In his inaugural address, carried to millions on the radio, the new president said, "This great nation will endure as it has endured, will revive and will prosper. So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is fear itself—nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror, which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance." His prescription was clear and heartening: "This nation asks for action, and action now. Our greatest primary task is to put people to work. I am prepared under my constitutional duty to recommend the measures that a stricken nation in the midst of a stricken world may require." What followed was an unprecedented accretion of federal power.

It didn't take long for FDR to jettison one of his major campaign promises—to balance the budget. He felt the pledge was outweighed by the need for government activism, and he began a new era of vast deficit spending. His approach was pragmatic, designed to get results and rebuild hope for the future.

FDR proceeded to win congressional approval for a wave of expensive social and economic programs. In the first 100 days, many new federal agencies were created to alleviate the nation's plight, including the Federal Emergency Relief Administration to channel money through the states to the unemployed,.......

This was only the start of a fundamental restructuring of government to create a social safety net and assist those in need....

[uponit7771]

37. Maybe 1 issues out of 20 you could argue with but not internment camps, his small c conservatism

... when it came to banks when the left was calling for nationalizing them, his silent support for Jim Crow, his union busting at Willow Run...

FDR's bag of bad would have him demonized today...

But Sanders had a greeting with the pope, I guess that makes him worthy of a podium bird :rolleyes:

[Armstead]

43. If you object to FDR's efforts to stave off radical revolution...

...if you support Clinton....that's a little inconsistent.

Nor is Sanders trying to overthrow the system -- just save it (and us) from its excessses and abuses.

Sure FDP had his bag of Bad. Most politicians do. They're human, and they are also products of their time. George Washington was a slave owner. LBJ was a racist and got us enmeshed in a horrid war.

I'm not sure of your point though. No one is calling Sanders perfect.

[uponit7771]

45. OK, so you'll agree Clinton is a progressive then... seeing her bag of bad makes her human too

... or will I just be reading another equivication?

[Armstead]

48. Clinton is progressive on some issues

But she is a product of a system that is anything but progressive, in terms of influence and wealth and power, and freeing government and the Democratic Party from the straitjacket that has been imposed by the Wall St. Corporate excesses since at least 1980.

[uponit7771]

50. Same with Sanders per your last post then right, or am I going to read more equivication and

... that leads to Sanders being more ... pure progressive... than Hillary?

[Armstead]

51. Equivication is not the same as explanation and response

I don;t care if we agree, but if you discuss, don't use marginalizing memes.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

16. FDR was a great man. He ended the Great Depression and won WW ll.

However some economic historians blame him for the Recession of 1937-38 for the budget cuts he instituted when he got cold feet and reverted to balanced budget orthodoxy. Also, his biographer Arthur Schlesinger argued he was a small c conservative because he saved capitalism from itself by regulating it, providing an embryonic safety net to support it, and ridding it of its excesses.

[oberliner]

18. What about Japanese internment camps?

That wasn't so great.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

20. Not good and his quotas on Jewish immigration during the Shoah were not good either.

Yet to my bubbe he was a demigod.

[apnu]

21. True, nobody's perfect.

FDR did great and good things, he also had his sins. Same for LBJ, signed the Civil Rights Act, Medicare and Medicade, but also accellereated the Viet Nam War.

Both men are considered 'great' and both made grave mistakes. They are human after all, and we can be great and terrible.

[oberliner]

22. Would you say the same about Bill Clinton?

He did good things but also had sins.

[apnu]

24. Yes I would.

Bill Clinton did some good things, and he did some bad things.

[uponit7771]

36. Bernie is though and Hillary Clinton killed Abe Lincoln... no really, that's what Sanders Camp sound

... sounds like

[uponit7771]

47. +1, no some are trying to say they never claimed Sanders was "perfect"...

[mmonk]

57. Yes, you are correct. When he went back to budget

hawking, that did happen.

[apnu]

19. ln FDR's first hundred days he created the New Deal.

Actions, not campaign speeches, are more important.

As for Jim Crow, everybody who was white was silent on it, even the growing communist movement at the time.

[JaneyVee]

27. He also had over 300+ in House and 70+ in senate.

[apnu]

29. Yet most of it came by way of Executive Order. nt

[uponit7771]

35. Link and quote? tia

[apnu]

63. Go check wikipedia. nt

[uponit7771]

64. Done, nothing there saying most of the progressive legislation FDR passed was via EOs

[NWCorona]

25. Look up the the 1910 election in NY and how that led to changes. nt

[JaneyVee]

26. He was also very corporate friendly.

For example: "Early on, Roosevelt was quite adept at bargaining with corporations. In his first 100 days, to attract corporate support for the National Industrial Recovery Act, he won collective bargaining, minimum wages and maximum hours in exchange for a temporary suspension of antitrust law, so businesses could fix prices. To establish the Securities and Exchange Commission in 1934, he made concessions to Wall Street that scrapped statutory requirements in favor of regulatory flexibility. The following year, to allow the Federal Reserve to better conduct monetary policy, he gave bankers representation on the policy committee."

[Kip Humphrey]

28. What's the thinking here? We must destroy FDR's legacy to beat Bernie?

wow. More proof Hillary & the 3rd Way are conservative Republicrats. Keep it coming. This is fascinating and VERY revealing!

[uponit7771]

34. Nah, just a show of how hypycritcal purist are... they're rarely fact based and when facts are ...

... brought up against their purism they cut and run and throw out as many ad homs they can

[Kip Humphrey]

41. purism? In language or art? You might want to actually look up the definition.

[Agnosticsherbet]

30. The Emergency Banking Act of 1933 was opposed by the left because it bailed out banks when the left

wanted them nationalized. It amazes me how much this resembles in outcome the Obama's policy of bank bailout. Obama resembles FDR.

[Agnosticsherbet]

32. The Economy Act of 1933 cut salaries of government employees and veterans benefits by 15%

to balance the budget. The left absolutely hated this hawkish, deficit cutting bill.
This bill would have been loved by modern Republicans.
President Obama initiated mandatory furloughs which reduced the income of federal workers in a very FDR like action.

[uponit7771]

33. No, .. no... they know what they do

[Agnosticsherbet]

39. Drawing Parallels between FDR and Sanders is fraught with peril. FDR was no leftist.

Sanders has tried to borrow the aura of one of the greatest Presidents in our history. FDR was not a leftist and the notion he was a socialist is beyond ridiculous.

His public works acts helped put America back to work, and President Obama tried the same, with great success, with infrastructure and work projects. His bank bailouts and his acts to protect industries were echoed by President Obama.

FDR was a Pragmatic Democrat who did what was necessary to keep the country on its feet through the great depression. His own actions influenced President Obama's decisions when faced with the Great Recession.

Sanders is no FDR. Though President Obama used FDR's legacy as a guide, Obama is not FDR.

Only FDR was FDR.

[jpmonk91]

42. FDR is a progressive

He was a new deal president and he got us out of the Great Depression. He was the only one who wanted to stop the nazis. What about his second bill of rights?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Bill_of_Rights

Seems pretty progressive to me. Income inequality and health care wouldn't be an issue if he handnt passed away before he could make it law.

[mmonk]

62. +1

[Skid Rogue]

59. FDR is probably my favorite President...

He was certainly a Progressive by the standards of the time, but he had to compromise again and again. Remember, the South was still a Democratic stronghold. Jim Crow was in full force, yet he needed some Southern support to get his progressive agenda through. So, along with the compromises, there was a lot of political gamesmanship, hard decisions, and deals made with all sorts of devils.

He wasn't perfect, nor was he a purest. He did the best he could, given what he had to work with. If he were running today, he would never pass muster with the Sanders supporters.

[RATM435]

60. NY Daily News Claims FDR Unfit to Be President: “No Concrete Plans, Only Platitudes”

The following is an imagined 1932 New York Daily News editorial board interview with Franklin Roosevelt during his presidential campaign. The Daily News comments below derive from the editorial board’s interview with Bernie Sanders on April 1, 2016. The Roosevelt statements are taken primarily from his 1933 inaugural address and his 1936 campaign speech at Madison Square Garden.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/les-leopold/ny-daily-news-claims-fdr_b_9641556.html