Bernie is going all the way

[silvershadow]

Chris Hayes and Nick Confessore, Political Reporter for The New York Times, discuss further evidence that the Sanders campaign will not concede before the convention.

http://www.msnbc.com/all-in/watch/bernie-is-going-all-the-way-672120387540

[TDale313]

1. Good. He should take it to the convention. n/t

[dana_b]

19. Yes!! Thank you, Bernie!

I love that he is fighting for us all the way to the convention floor!

[Baobab]

59. YAAY- I would hate to see him have to go Third Party, but thats better than letting warmongers

rule the party.

[Ino]

2. Link doesn't work? (nt)

[silvershadow]

4. I tried to fix it...try it again

[Ino]

6. Works, thanks!

So that's why Hillary is money-grubbing from young people now... promising them "advisor" status in exchange for $10K

[URL=http://www.sherv.net/][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

[silvershadow]

7. yw

[George II]

9. Hillary "money-grubbing from young people"? Haven't you watched Sanders in the debates and....

....at his rallies?

[Lucky Ducky]

22. Millennials don't count, remember?

Or is this another flip flop?

[Major Hogwash]

12. Wow, great article!! Thanks.

She lost the youth vote clear back in 2008, but is now trying to buy it!!

[moriah]

14. Uh, if she was attempting to "buy" the youth vote, wouldn't she...

... be promising to give them money for joining, instead of accepting their money if they choose to give to her?

[pdsimdars]

64. Isn't that the way it works even with her Wall Street donors?

They give her something and, what do you know, things fall off the truck for them.

[grasswire]

3. link doesn't work for me nt

[silvershadow]

5. I tried a fix...check it now

[Metric System]

8. Bernie can go all the way to hell, if that's his plan. As a 2008 Hillary supporter I wanted her to

fight on until the last primary because I KNEW she would work her heart out for Obama and help to unify the party. For that reason I've refused to say Sanders should drop out, and I still won't. However, I no longer have any expectation that Sanders will behave as classy as Hillary did after the last primary and help to unify both sides.

[George II]

10. Based on his past performance, where he skulked out of town on Primary night when it was obvious....

.....that he was being thrashed, I doubt he'll even be in the Convention Hall when the final delegate count is tallied.

[sabrina 1]

39. Az and NY look like they will have to redo the primaries, Bernie gave a speech on the night of the

NY primary, btw, too bad you missed it. You wouldn't have made yourself look silly had you known that.

But Hillary eg, did not concede the string of ten defeats she has suffered, most of them by double digit numbers, with no election fraud.

Even Tweetie remarked that on the night of Bernie's Wisconsin win, Hillary 'disappeared' 'is this a new thing' asked Mathews, 'not cool'. She was busy tweeting about Bernie that night which is now coming back to haunt her.

Pay attention to what is going on. Bernie, left Wisconsin for Wyoming, you know, it's normal for a candidate to do that during a campaign, and received the news of his big win in Wisconsin right before his Wyoming rally.

That is how it's done. Bad attempt to try to make something out of standard procedure, which your own candidate does also, since it IS standard procedure.

[George II]

52. Yes, he made a speech....IN PENNSYLVANIA!

"In fact, despite all of Sanders’ time campaigning and his enormous rallies in New York, the Vermont senator has bemoaned the state’s election laws and seemed well aware this week that he could lose the primary. Tuesday night, Sanders was not watching the primary results in New York. Instead, he was slated to speak at a rally in University Park, Pennsylvania, at 7 p.m. EDT."

http://www.ibtimes.com/new-york-primary-night-speeches-watch-live-stream-donald-trump-bernie-sanders-hillary-2356309

Just as I said!

As for the other stuff you said,

- Neither Arizona nor New York will be redoing their primaries.
- Clinton didn't have a string of ten defeats, although Sanders hasn't won a primary since early March.

[hack89]

84. They will not redo the primary in NY.

Noway that is going to happen.

[pdsimdars]

66. Hillary has been campaigning from the gutter from day 1.

They lied about his civil rights activism, his health care plan, his gun votes, EVERYTHING. Any and every way they could twist his record, they have done. Wrapping themselves in Sandyhook victims and others. Even when people called them out on their lies, they continued to lie.

You have a much different definition of "classy" than I do.
Buh bye

[Major Hogwash]

11. Yup, the campaign isn't over yet.

And Bernie will be the nominee.

[moriah]

13. If true, sad. I do wish this was wrapped up....

.... but I can't criticize if he doesn't officially concede until after all people voting is over and he's still behind in pledged delegates.

But that's NOT the same as trying to overturn the vote at the Convention. The people who suggested Hillary should have done that were rightly criticized in 2008.

[silvershadow]

15. It is sad. I guess the party will fracture then. Some people learn the hard way. nt

[Zynx]

16. Hillary conceded in 2008 when the combined super delegates and pledged delegates

eliminated her. That will certainly happen this time in Hillary's favor once we get to CA.

Why take it to the convention?

[silvershadow]

18. I suspect it won't go as you see. California and Indiana are winnable, and win we will.nt

[Zynx]

23. Winnable is different than winnable by enough to close the delegate gap.

[silvershadow]

30. If he sees the path, he will take it all the way to a win. You guys keep pretending this isn't

a campaign at this point for the delegates, too. Since they are the actual only ones whose vote even counts in this whole matter (massive irregularities notwithstanding)

[silvershadow]

20. In addition, Hillary's trendines are down. The wheels fell off the bus. Bernie's are up.

It has been posted repeatedly. The Supers would not only be foolish, but would be guilty of political malpractice to ignore it.

[Stuckinthebush]

34. That's how elections work

Winners and losers. Smart people don't riot when their prefered candidate loses. That would be insane.

[silvershadow]

38. Some people don't understand The Corporate State and TPP. nt

[Stuckinthebush]

40. Or crop circle or chem trails (nt)

[silvershadow]

41. There actually isn't a debate about it. nt

[Stuckinthebush]

42. Cool

[TDale313]

24. If he's behind in pledged delegates, I'd agree.

If he does manage to pull ahead, he has an excellent case to make that the supers should respect that.

[moriah]

25. Of course. The Supers really shouldn't have any actual influence....

.... except during a three-way race where neither gets a majority of the pledged delegates.

And that's pretty rare for us, fortunately.

[stillwaiting]

58. That's not how it works. The supers have had massive influence this primary.

Their existence and their weighing in for HRC allowed the media to crown HRC for all intents and purposes very, very early this primary. You better believe that has heavily impacted how this primary race has played out.

No doubt some Bernie supporters were discouraged and didn't vote. No doubt HRC got some votes due to the bandwagon effect and people wanting to vote for the winner of not wanting to "waste their vote" by voting for the loser.

Super delegates must go. They must. We can develop other procedures to handle our nominating process, but these super delegates are not democratic and many of them are freaking corporate lobbyists and officers. No. Hell no.

[moriah]

70. And despite your theory, no crown in 2008.

Actually, Obama himself is the only one that got anything close to a "coronation"....

http://www.politico.com/story/2014/12/that-time-obama-wore-a-tiara-113810

[stillwaiting]

71. If you dispute the fact that super delegates have been used by the media

In an unprecedented way to continually claim that Sanders has had a very long shot to NO shot at beating HRC from the very beginning then I'll just say you are being disingenuous.

This should never happen again.

[moriah]

72. And if you think SDs matter that early in the nominating process, you don't know history.

But if SDs can't say their own opinions, I think you'll find that remarkably anti-democratic, too.

(And no laugh at Obama in a tiara for the GSA? Geez, no sense of humor this Sunday, seriously....)

[stillwaiting]

73. It seems we have a difference in opinion as to how much power the

Super delegates have within the Dem Party, and the ultimate impact of the narrative they allowed the media to spin throughout this primary. I believe my opinion is a bit closer to the real effect these supers have had this primary.

Bottom line: they are not democratic and many of them are corporate lobbyists and corporate officers. This makes the Republican primary MORE democratic than the Democratic one. They gotta go. I have a feeling you like them though. Just a hunch.

[moriah]

75. I like them only for three-way races.

Which is the only time they should have more power than their right of free speech to endorse whatever candidate they want to. Many endorsed Bernie.

But please be careful that in your passion you don't cross the line from fiercely advocating your position to attack me (whether it's to say I like Republicans, as your passion could have been misinterpreted, or that I do not believe in democracy). I don't appreciate it, and while I'm trying to give people the benefit of the doubt, continued slaps out at me just because thus time my candidate seems to be winning will end up being alerted on.

[stillwaiting]

77. Nothing in my post is alert worthy in my opinion.

I have never had a post hidden here in all my time here.

But, if you disagree by all means alert.

I don't see why we need supers in 3 way races. At the convention we could have other mechanisms in place to crown our nominee. In my opinion, arguing for supers is an attack on a fair democracy. We can have multiple rounds of voting at the convention without having to resort to super delegates. So many of them have demonstrated a horribly superior and entitled point of view this primary season. Their vote should not equal more than 10000 votes from average Democratic voters. That screams corruption to me. I am sorry if that offends you. That opinion is not a direct attack on you.

[moriah]

79. Neither have I, and I didn't alert, I expressed I didn't appreciate....

.... the way that you went from attacking the issue to saying you had a "hunch" I liked either Republicans or a non-Democratic process. That's how debates turn uncivil.

Just as I pointed out that jumping from taking one person's discussion about a few unethical Bernie supporters, being still so invested in self-identification as a Bernie supporter to be unable to admit that yes, some of every candidate's supporters have behaved badly, and responded by attwcking that user (not that user's candidate's supporters). No alert, just a plea for civility.

I alert when it's egregious or a troll.

[stillwaiting]

80. I promise you I did not intend to imply you were potentially a Republican.

My hunch that you liked super delegates stemmed entirely from our convo here in this thread. That's it.

[moriah]

81. Thanks. That's why I prefer to engage usually civil users rather than alert. :)

Usually, there's some misunderstanding over text, which does suck for tone. Or there's an understandable reason that user was being more sensitive than usual and lashing out.

I prefer Supers to the Republican process in three-way elections because of the fact we could end up with Jeb as the Republican nominee if thry go through enough ballots, when the Republican voters clearly said at the polls three from the same family is too much in line with monarchy.

At least with our process, the nominee even in a three-way contested race with no clear winner of pledged delegates is still going to likely be one of the three the voters preferred.

[stillwaiting]

82. No problem. Agree to disagree on the supers. The cons heavily outweigh the pros

For me.

And, the Republican Establishment would have hell to pay (and rightfully so) if they try and install someone that lost early or didn't run at all in the primary. We could have rules that prevent that from happening in the Dem party. Perhaps some form of instant runoff voting would make the chances that someone with such little support could ever get the nomination. And that would be much more democratic and worthy of the Democratic Party.

Our party chair has already been kind enough to inform us of the real purpose of super delegates: to allow the Establishment to block grassroots activists from having any true power. That answer is clearly true, and it is a disgrace and ultimately unacceptable.

[moriah]

83. I'm a firm supporter of IRV, nationally.

I think it's the true "revolution" that will lead to massive changes in both major parties -- yes, the first few ekections we'd probably still end up with a Dem or a Repuke, because it will take some time for the third parties that are so marginalized now without IRV to gain enough momentum.

But when the party leadership sees on both sides how many people put Green or Libertarian as their first choice and only put Dems or Pukes as their second choices, they'll realize they are going to have to change in an environment where the General Election is one where smart people can vote their conscience instead of just their fears.

[stillwaiting]

85. Love it and ICAM.

[moriah]

87. Thanks. That wish isn't to see the Party I love destroyed, FYI.

It's that I do think, overall, it will counteract the right shift in politics.

I talk to Conservatives frequently, partly because I am a minority as a liberal in my own state, partly because there are some who aren't truly insane (rare, but I manage to find a few), and mostly because I prefer to debate policy positions with people who disagree or I can't really constructively analyze my own viewpoint well enough to argue why I disagree unless I listen to what they're saying.

And most of those I do speak to don't support the culture wars that the current GOP fights. They are fiscal conservatives, not social ones. I truly think the GOP would be the first to fracture, becoming the party of social conservatives only

I think the Democrats, on the other hand, would move more to the left to embrace Greens and the more left-leaning Democrats. We have a far stronger reputation of trying to enlarge our tent, not fracture.

[sabrina 1]

43. Why? This is a beautiful example of democracy in action. Why would ANYONE not want that? Every state

gets to have a say. 'Wrapping it up' means depriving voters of the right to THEIR say in a campaign which to me is an awful way to run a democracy

I love the way this campaign is going, it is truly democracy in action. No state will be denied its right to vote in this Primary. Why on earth would anyone not want that?

Most exciting campaign I remember in my lifetime, with so many important issues finally getting attention. It isn't about YOU, or ME or how WE feel. It's about this country. I just love the democratic process in action.

[moriah]

57. When I say I wish it was "wrapped up"...

... it's because I want to start working for the General and not dealing with the primary infighting.

But what isn't Democracy is what Weaver stupidly suggested was the plan -- to, after months of saying the Supers shouldn't have influence in this kind of two-way race but should follow the candidate with the most pledged delegates, try to overturn the pledged delegates at the Convention.

When no one has won a majority of pledged delegates (three-way races for the majority of the primary in most cases) that's when the Supers should have influence. But when one or the other will have a majority of pledged delegates, the Superdelegates should do as they did in 2008 and follow the will of the people.

Not doing so would be very sad indeed, and totally unDemocratic.

[bjo59]

17. That is damn right. All the way!

The pathetic (and, frankly, frantic) efforts to demoralize people who support Sanders and thereby undercut that support only serve as evidence at how disturbing it is to the Clinton camp that an un-bought politician finally made it on to the national stage in such a big way. That was never supposed to happen!

[Ferd Berfel]

21. Good.

[ridgenvalley]

26. Thank you, Senator!!!

I knew you'd keep your promise!!

[CrowCityDem]

27. If true, he can say goodbye to seniority and committee positions.

[NorthCarolina]

29. Oh, you make those decisions for the party? nt

[riderinthestorm]

35. Oh they're gone anyway and he knows it.

Hillary will have her revenge.

Bernie’s not naive, he knows the Clintons will work actively to destroy him.

He has nothing to lose and everything to gain by igniting more and more people with his message.

[NorthCarolina]

28. Rightly so. There is no reason he should exit the race. Let everyone vote. nt

[amborin]

31. K&R to the convention and the presidency!

[Demsrule86]

32. He will concede.

And he will go all the way back to Vermont.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

33. If nothing else, he's holding the Democratic Party's feet to the fire.

[riderinthestorm]

36. Yay!!!! Thanks for this nt

[Equinox Moon]

37. Perfect! Keep spreading his platform

Its important to keep his political platform going. I think a lot of people don't hear his platform until he campaigns in their state.

I will continue my full support through the convention and beyond!

[alcibiades_mystery]

44. Is going to the convention the new winning?

You know who else is going to the convention? Hillary Clinton. She happens to be going with the most delegates, though.

[silvershadow]

45. Pure speculation at this point. nt

[alcibiades_mystery]

46. Tick tock

Enjoy Tuesday.

[silvershadow]

47. Drip. Drip. Drip. Enjoy losing in California! And Indiana! and...

[alcibiades_mystery]

48. Hahaha

So delusional. It's fun watching you guys lose and go all crybaby.

Stay in, please, Bernie!

[silvershadow]

49. We aren't losing. THat's just a corporate media meme. The massive fraud and irregularities through

out this campaign are EPIC and noted. I can't vote for a candidate under investigation. Enjoy destroying the party.

[alcibiades_mystery]

50. Like I said, love watching the pouting

You're losing and its fucking delicious.

"Election irregularities! Wah wah wah!"

Nobody will remember this nonsense in three months. But it's certainly hilarious to watch the delusional ranting while it's going on.

[silvershadow]

51. Fraud is a serious charge. Disenfranchisement is against everything this party stands for.nt

[randome]

60. Anyone can make a serious charge on an anonymous messaging board.

Let the chips fall where they will. No one is standing in the way of audits or investigations.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]TECT in the name of the Representative approves of this post.[/center][/font][hr]

[puffy socks]

53. #feelthemath

[silvershadow]

54. I am. We have a path. California. Indiana. + nt

[George II]

56. Bill Clinton is going too. And he'll be a Superdelegate!

I wonder if Tad Devine will try to flip him?

[brooklynite]

62. I am going all the way too!

I confirmed I'll be at the Convention as well.

[noretreatnosurrender]

55. Good Time

to make another donation! Go Bernie!

[NorthCarolina]

61. Good, there's absolutely no reason he shouldn't. nt

[pdsimdars]

63. If anyone gets a link on youtube let us know, MSNBC doesn't work for me, too much buffering.

I can't really watch it like that.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

65. He's going all the way to the convention

[pdsimdars]

67. In my view, all the way to the WH

[Rosa Luxemburg]

69. Yes

A week is a long time in politics.

[pdsimdars]

68. Just for people's iformation -- there is almost no way Hillary can get enough pledged delegates

to secure the nomination before the convention. She would need to get 68% of the remaining delegates.
And the super delegates don't really vote until the convention.

[dchill]

78. I knew he would.

He said so.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

86. Good. If nothing more, Californians need to learn the mechanics of a primary just as New Yorkers

and every state election board needs to be scrutinized. Beyond that, tapping out too soon will make it too easy for Hillary to begin tacking back to the center-right, where she's more comfortable.