2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumWill you vote for Trump if Bernie loses the primary?
Please be honest.
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)Neither Trump nor Clinton deserve my vote.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)northernsouthern
(1,511 posts)Or will you choose Cruz?
Else You Are Mad
(3,040 posts)This is DEMOCRATIC underground.
Metric System
(6,048 posts)Else You Are Mad
(3,040 posts)Binkie The Clown
(7,911 posts)If Bernie is on the ballot then he gets my vote without a doubt.
But as far as I can see none of the other candidates on either side are really Democrats, regardless of what label they flaunt.
I'll decide which way to go once the ballot is in my hands.
Dem2
(8,168 posts)This should be interesting...
Binkie The Clown
(7,911 posts)If I said I always order a Big Mac and I'm given the choice of a tuna fish sandwich or a meatloaf, that does not imply that I think there's no difference between tuna fish and meatloaf. Do you understand why your false assertion is a logical fallacy? There IS a big difference between Trump and Clinton, and there IS a big difference between Tuna fish sandwich and meatloaf, but I still want a Big Mac right now.
Dem2
(8,168 posts)There will be no compromising - even 2nd best is as bad as the worst in your eyes.
Yes, it's a logical fallacy, but you're not leaving me much choice, sorry.
The poster is comparing a big Mac to Bernie.
That's an insult to Bernie and I don't even like him as my democratic candidate. I would call Trump the big Mac.
Binkie The Clown
(7,911 posts)beedle
(1,235 posts)1 - Hillary wins and doesn't end up in prison, or is allowed to run for office from her jail cell
2 - Trump shifts to the center, or left after the primaries
3 - Trump asks Bernie to be his running mate, Bernie makes Trump give large concessions, especially about getting money out of politics, and Bernie accepts
4 - Dr Jill Stein decides not to run
5 - they outlaw write in candidates, spoiled ballots, and force you to vote
6 - God does not manifest himself and threaten my immortal soul if I don't vote for Clinton
Then it's a serious consideration.
Unfortunately there is no way any marking device, or lever, that ends up in my hands will ever come near the name 'Clinton'.
peacebird
(14,195 posts)TSIAS
(14,689 posts)Response to runaway hero (Original post)
rbrnmw This message was self-deleted by its author.
like potential answer makes you nervous.
rbrnmw
(7,160 posts)just hate all the baiting of long term members
rbrnmw
(7,160 posts)hobbit709
(41,694 posts)99Forever
(14,524 posts)The question is a non-starter.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,735 posts)I'll hold my nose and vote for Hillary. YMMV, but I view it this way: Right now we risk being inundated by a fetid swamp full of alligators and water moccasins and God knows what else. Electing Hillary, as disheartening as that would be, would at least serve the purpose of piling up sandbags to keep the stagnant water and the snakes from getting to us while we progressives take a few more years to drain the swamp altogether. The sandbag levee is not a solution but a stopgap; it's unsightly and it leaks and some of the alligators and snakes will get through. But Trump (and Cruz, too) is the swamp.
And yes, I hate the old lesser-of-two-evils situation but it seems like that's the way things almost always shake out. I hate it that I have to vote for someone I don't like in order to fend off someone worse. I hate it that the Democratic Party has the attitude that we have to vote for whoever they choose because where else are you going to go? But there it is - pile up the sandbags and then drain the swamp, I guess.
runaway hero
(835 posts)So many people are mad, they don't realize we have to come together at some point. Bernie is too far away to win.
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)Including not voting the top race at all
runaway hero
(835 posts)The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,735 posts)and is only parroting liberal/progressive ideas because she's seen how well people respond to Bernie - and if she's elected she'll just swivel back to the centrist, pro-corporate crap she really seems to favor. I tend to agree, but, as I explained previously, I can (just barely) stomach voting for her to prevent Trump or Cruz from winning.
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)She is corrupt, she keeps shifting her positions from the polls. Do you want me to continue?
99Forever
(14,524 posts)On all counts.
Mad? No, we are beyond sick and tired of being lied to by corrupt politicians, media and the scumbag rich that own them all.
We sure as fuck DON'T "have to come together at some point." Not with a bunch of lying, corrupt politicians, media and the scumbag rich that own them all.
Do I even need to tell just what kind of ratfucking lie your last "point" is?
runaway hero
(835 posts)It takes time. Even if Bernie gets in it will take a while.
Response to runaway hero (Reply #47)
xloadiex This message was self-deleted by its author.
drm604
(16,230 posts)Is this a serious question? I would never vote for Trump.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)Fortunately, my ballot comes with more than 2 choices and has a write-in option.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)Renew Deal
(81,863 posts)Because purity
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)for papers might be interested in studying write-in patterns. And, of course, if silly enough a write-in might even be mentioned in a Daily Kos article on the subject. I've read that dogs consistently beat out cats.
egalitegirl
(362 posts)If the stakes are so high for you, you should start putting up candidates who are acceptable to Bernie supporters as well. Protest votes will eventually work because people like you will be forced to think twice before supporting a pro-war pro-Wall Street candidate in future.
me b zola
(19,053 posts)Kip Humphrey
(4,753 posts)Adrahil
(13,340 posts)There are a gazillion Bernie or Bust folks on this site posting all the time. Hell, look a couple posts up, you'll see another <redacted> declaring they will vote for a non-Democratic candidate.
No one is at risk here.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)But I won't vote for Hillary, either.
Orsino
(37,428 posts)TheCowsCameHome
(40,168 posts)Where did you get that?
TransitJohn
(6,932 posts)Hell no.
JesterCS
(1,827 posts)Noone here will vote for trump. Except the paid trolls
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)On Sat Apr 23, 2016, 11:48 AM an alert was sent on the following post:
Will you vote for Trump if Bernie loses the primary?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511816698
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
Shit stirring trying to get Bernie supporters to get banned
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sat Apr 23, 2016, 11:51 AM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: This is inappropriate.
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Ban bait
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I think the alert is justified and hopefully puts this one on MIRT's radar, but taken at face value this single post isn't really hide worthy.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
runaway hero
(835 posts)this was not out of bounds.
Punkingal
(9,522 posts)azurnoir
(45,850 posts)enough
(13,259 posts)MuseRider
(34,111 posts)Please be honest.
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)MuseRider
(34,111 posts)TDale313
(7,820 posts)Not sure what the point of this post is, but of course not.
AgerolanAmerican
(1,000 posts)I'll have to assess the situation if it comes to that.
The choice is most definitely not a clear-cut one, that's for sure.
Most likely neither one will be acceptable enough to hold my nose for and I'll either sit it out or check out some minor party options.
If this is "ban bait" so be it. I'm not modifying my opinion to please anyone.
MadBadger
(24,089 posts)egalitegirl
(362 posts)It is not people like the poster but those who voted for wars, Wall Street bailout and work with the Bush family who want the country to go down the tubes.
AgerolanAmerican
(1,000 posts)it was Bon Voyage a long time ago
and it was Hillary's husband who cut the mooring lines by signing Glass-Steagall.
If you think she's going to prevent this country from going down the tubes rather than accelerating the process, you're delusional.
On all the biggest issues that really impact the lives of Americans, she is at least as far right as all the Republicans are, if not more so.
Response to MadBadger (Reply #49)
Name removed Message auto-removed
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)how classy.
By the way, that ship, as it was said above, sailed a while ago. Now it is going into a hurricane.
artislife
(9,497 posts)Codeine
(25,586 posts)If Skinner wasn't as kind and forgiving as he is you'd be banhammered for that level of raw, uncut idiocy.
AgerolanAmerican
(1,000 posts)this is me not caring
runaway hero
(835 posts)This is not an attack on bernie supporters.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)runaway hero
(835 posts)you don't get to tell people who to vote for.
MadBadger
(24,089 posts)runaway hero
(835 posts)and not voting is just as bad. Hillary supporters need to be aware of this. You have to bring Bernie nation to your side here.
kimbutgar
(21,163 posts)basselope
(2,565 posts)We'll file this under, if you ask a stupid question, you will get a stupid answer.
You want me to explain why?
The GOP will get more of its agenda done under a Clinton administration.
Fuddnik
(8,846 posts)Please be honest.
Matt_in_STL
(1,446 posts)Sorry, I answered at the office.
tymorial
(3,433 posts)I will hold my nose and vote for Hillary and then watch the aftermath where any criticism of her policies will be labeled as nothing more than misogyny. Anyone who questions her on democrat forums and websites will be accused of being republican plants and liars. Silencing tactics will be engaged such as bullying and banning because she will be the president and it is "wrong to question the president."
How do I know that this will happen? Precedent. It has happened before. My boyfriend signed up in here many years ago and questioned the presidents use of drone strikes, signing extension to patriot act etc. He was called a republican and a bigot. There is "no other reason to criticise the president unless you are racist." He was banned with the statement it isnt right to insult the president.... which was rich considering it had been done daily for 8 years straight.
Anyway that was years ago but I anticipate seeing the same happen. Shaming tactics are an effective method to silence inconvenient questions. I honestly believe that some people would an act sedition laws if they could.
Despite this... a trump presidency would be a disaster. A McCain, A Romney president would be a disaster. Do I want to vote for Hillary no but I will. I would love for the establishment to lose their iron grip but I would rather see a moderate democrat in the white house than a lunatic. That will never change for me anyway...
What I would love to see change is the ability to discuss and debate without devolving to insult, histrionics and childish tantrums.
peace13
(11,076 posts)These are people who worked like dogs for Obama. We had Obama campaign staff live with us for nine months and have never voted Rethug. Go figure.
runaway hero
(835 posts)Autumn
(45,108 posts)Seniority has it's perks.
TCJ70
(4,387 posts)...I'll just vote down ticket and call it a day.
dmosh42
(2,217 posts)RedCappedBandit
(5,514 posts)This conflation between Trump and Bernie is pure bullshit.
runaway hero
(835 posts)Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)runaway hero
(835 posts)redwitch
(14,944 posts)Xyzse
(8,217 posts)If it does become Hillary, it has been getting harder and harder to say that I will.
It is fortunate, that I care about local races, otherwise, it would be hard to get my spirit up to make time before work to vote.
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)Xyzse
(8,217 posts)There is excitement there. It makes me feel like I really am part of the process.
In either case, it will make it harder for me to cast my vote for the Presidency level if my choice is only Hillary. The way things have been done, in some ways makes me not want her to win either.
She would still be preferable to any of the Republican candidates out there, but at this point... I feel, not so much any more.
However, I don't think the people here are the ones you have to worry about though. I will vote for the Democrat.
It is the supporters hoping to shake up the current status quo that people have to work towards.
My younger brothers, and their friends, tend to consider Obama a miserable failure.
The thing is, I can't completely dismiss their point as he campaigned on Hope and Change, while capitulating towards the Republicans, giving them first what they want, and then when they ask for more, bow down and give in, while getting so little.
In some ways, Obama has passed legislation that would have been unthinkable during the Bush era as the Democrats would have actually fought against it. In the end, Obama castigated Democrats to go along with bad legislation. Granted, those were the only ones he could pass.
As President, the idea is not to move towards your opposition's position, hoping they would meet you halfway. It is to present your position, in the best possible light, and get them to move towards yours.
Many of them see Clinton doing the same thing, and to some of them, that is unacceptable.
Thing is, if you notice my posts, I have defended her quite a few times. I even mention that they really should not be focusing on the transcripts and emails as I consider that pointless, in many ways.
However, when some of them say that they will probably stay away from the polls if she won... I can't really say much other than to say focus on the local races.
I understand that Clinton really has not done anything wrong. She has used the system to her advantage, and it is legal. Even her Clinton Victory Fund which skirts the rule of law by using down-party tickets to get beyond the donation caps, which have not sent any of those funds to those State Parties yet(this started last year), is technically legal.
What people look for is a new or better way. The tried and old way has not been working.
I apologize... I digressed.
Short answer, I like the act of voting in the polls. It is like a Sacrament for me that I can actually be a part of. I would want everyone to be a part of it.
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)Kasich is the only one we would have had to worry about, and the RepubliCONS are too stupid to nominate him, thank Dog.
Xyzse
(8,217 posts)That is, unless Trump does get the required delegates in time.
Sky Masterson
(5,240 posts)Since we have a fuc_ed up voting system in this country,And I live in a solid red state that will vote red in the General(Kansas).
Since It doesn't matter in the least who I vote for here, I will vote for the Green Party Candidate.
I will vote out of protest for the way the DNC has unfairly backed Secretary Clinton and how they treated Bernie.
I will remember every douche-bag Thread I see posted by shit stirrers on various places on the web and it will confirm my reasoning for making this choice.
If I lived in a swing state I would probably vote for Clinton and just take heart that she will probably lose or be gone in 4 if she somehow wins the crown.
I still can't believe how far and unimaginative our nation has fallen and become to prop up this War Hawk.
We learn nothing.
bigwillq
(72,790 posts)Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)is that plain enough for you. Nice flame bait though.
lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)jmousso75
(71 posts)No way Trump. But right now, I can't bring myself to vote for Hillary.......perhaps by time of the general, we shall see. And I want to see the platform first. If the Clinton operatives don't stop ripping Bernie and his supporters....absolutely not. I'll sit it out.
DinahMoeHum
(21,794 posts). . .whether it's Clinton or Sanders.
BTW, I voted for Sanders in the NY primary.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)want to vote for her either.
MrWendel
(1,881 posts)this question is way harder then it should be for my on DU. To be fair it should be asked or revisited in a few months.
Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)And if you are using a real life example of people who would do that, then you obviously are backing a flawed Democrat.
beachbumbob
(9,263 posts)Unless they were faking support in the first place....it would shame either candidate...
fluffyclouds
(51 posts)My husband has talked about it. He is a bernie supporter and very liberal. He never voted republican in his life but he thinks that Trump is further to the left than Hillary and that all his crazy talk is just because he is very clever about manipulating the media.
beaglelover
(3,486 posts)mikehiggins
(5,614 posts)TheDormouse
(1,168 posts)TheDormouse
(1,168 posts)PatrickforO
(14,578 posts)LiberalFighter
(50,950 posts)If they do it is likely because they are new on here and only here to troll us.
Arkana
(24,347 posts)That's it.
And I'm doing it because I don't want Ben Carson on the Supreme Court or Chris Christie as AG. I have no compelling reason to vote FOR Hillary Clinton. I have many reasons to vote AGAINST the cretins on the right.
I still believe Hillary Clinton is a corrupt, rotten-to-the core, vindictive jerk who is utterly uninterested in anything except power. She believes she is "owed" our support and her past record does nothing to suggest that she'll actually do anything to rein in Wall Street excesses.
Congratulations, Clinton supporters. Your new slogan should be "Hillary Clinton 2016: You Hate Her Less, Right?"
Retrograde
(10,137 posts)I've never voted for a Republican in a general election and I see no reason to start now.
egalitegirl
(362 posts)It is not Bernie supporters who are the problem. Hillary is the problem and she has shown that she will ally with Bush and go against the interests of liberals and progressives.
Hiraeth
(4,805 posts)KPN
(15,646 posts)But I will have a choice to make because I believe in voting. Vote for Hillary who represents the status quo during a point in time when I believe the viability of the middle class is at risk and don't believe Hillary will fix that, or write Bernie in.
Currently leaning strongly toward writing Bernie in. It will depend on what specifically Hillary says she will aggressively pursue to bolster the middle class in the first 100 days of her Presidency and what priority she gives those proposals. ... But of course, there's still always the basic trust issue. As a lifelong Democratic voter up and down the ballot since 1972, I don't trust her.
smiley
(1,432 posts)haikugal
(6,476 posts)COLGATE4
(14,732 posts)louis-t
(23,295 posts)Turin_C3PO
(14,004 posts)I'm voting for the Dem nominee.
TeddyR
(2,493 posts)I'd never vote for Trump (or Cruz). Hillary may be a criminal and the worst candidate since Nixon, but she's certainly preferable to Trump or Cruz.
demmiblue
(36,865 posts)B Calm
(28,762 posts)Rebkeh
(2,450 posts)As if the choice is either/or.
It also smells like bait. No thank you.
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)There are so many of this type of dishonest question every day. They have no relevance. Total waste of time.
Right now is the PRIMARY,when our focus should be to decide who is the best candidate. Based on electability and how well they fit on the ISSUES.
When that is DONE, the focus will change to the GE.
But until that time, you are purposefully muddying the waters, asking people to lose their focus on the job at hand.
If you do the job right in front of you to the best of your ability, the future will take care of itself. But if you never focus on what you should be doing, everything always ends up a mess.
runaway hero
(835 posts)Bernie can't win. Don't you think he should drop out?
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)The fact is Bernie CAN (and I believe) will win.
And did you know this. . . .there is almost no way Hillary can get enough pledged delegates before the convention to lock it up. Isn't that interesting? She'd have to get 68% of the remaining delegates to lock it up.
She has a lot of super delegates but they don't matter until the convention, so she can't lock it up until then.
floriduck
(2,262 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)LyndaG
(683 posts)No to Cruz and Kasich, too.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)rickford66
(5,524 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)I am hearing that one already.
Oh and I still consider my "vote" as much as I don't expect it to count, to be "secret."
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)DeadLetterOffice
(1,352 posts)People who genuinely support what Bernie stands for LOATHE everything about Trump.
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)Chan790
(20,176 posts)Thankfully, Dannel Malloy isn't running for anything this term because I'd have to vote against that clown too.
jack_krass
(1,009 posts)NOT
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)All of us who support Bernie are only pretending to like his positions and lack of corruption and stands on true liberal values. In reality, we are trying to make it easier for our guy Trump to win. Why?! We LOVE fascism! Hillary isn't bad as far as oligarchs go, but she just lacks the je ne sais quoi of The Donald. And we would have gotten away with our plan to get him installed as president if it weren't for you meddling kids!
Agnosticsherbet
(11,619 posts)I would not vote for Trump if they put a gun to my head.
apcalc
(4,465 posts)Rosa Luxemburg
(28,627 posts)it would like voting for Hitler II
Logical
(22,457 posts)or one phone call for her.
randr
(12,412 posts)Option my wife and I, life long Democrats, are considering. Also considering taking our retirement package to another country.
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)IdaBriggs
(10,559 posts)Sunlei
(22,651 posts)muntrv
(14,505 posts)Buddyblazon
(3,014 posts)I'll write in Bernie.
Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)But I won't vote for her either. She (the DLC, Third Way neo-Dem) doesn't represent me or my values, in fact she will take a huge dump on many of my values. She has Wall Street and (apparently) rigged eVoting machines. She doesn't need me. IT will be a battle of who has the most rigged machines.
I'll vote down ballot for progressives but that will leave out DINOS that have supported and sided with Republicans.
Can you hear me now Brad Schneider (IL)?
RiverLover
(7,830 posts)nt
LWolf
(46,179 posts)No, I won't be voting for Trump for public office in this lifetime.
OutNow
(864 posts)I don't trust her on foreign policy. Not one inch. She will be driven out of office by the same sort of peaceniks that ended LBJ's career. We're watching you Clinton.
RKP5637
(67,111 posts)longer tolerated in a fascist country.
runaway hero
(835 posts)ridgenvalley
(58 posts)Green or write-in vote.
Trump. Good grief.
bvf
(6,604 posts)to start posting?
Please be honest.
Didn't really have anything to say
bvf
(6,604 posts)runaway hero
(835 posts)I see many people saying otherwise on reddit, etc.
FlatBaroque
(3,160 posts)Autumn
(45,108 posts)That wore me out.
Funtatlaguy
(10,879 posts)75% of Bernie voters will vote for Hillary
15% will not vote
10% will vote for "someone else".
Response to runaway hero (Original post)
Th1onein This message was self-deleted by its author.
2banon
(7,321 posts)I will be voting Bernie, either by checking his name, or writing it in.
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)Stupidest fucking question of the day.
And on that note, I am going to put you on ignore so you can continue guarding bridges.
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)If you do, I think we are all on the same team!
Now, if you vote for Jim, we might have problems.