So are we ready for the political system to go back on Autopilot?

[Armstead]

Last edited Sat Apr 23, 2016, 12:55 PM - Edit history (1)

Oh boy, if Clinton is the nominee we'll have an exciting war of words against Trump (or whomever) about which candidate and party is worse. That'll be fun.

And we may keep the White House. Oh boy we might eke out a small majority in the Senate.

Okay workers back to your underpaid jobs, if you're lucky enough to have a job. But stock up and save your money because we have some surprises for you. TPP, and the much worse European counterpart we have waiting in the wings. Stuff like that....But don't worry. "We'll negotiate such great trade deals for you."

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/04/us-trade-deal-full-frontal-assault-on-democracy

More Corporate mergers to form even bigger monopolies. Hey competition is such an old fashioned concept.

Banking and Wall St.? Don't worry we'll ask Goldman and BOA and those other Big Institutions to behave themselves. Maybe even levy an occasional fine to slap their wrists, just to show we mean it....But we will continue to let them control an obscene percentage of the nation's economy in their vaults, and drive our policies.

Obamacare will continue to keep the health care system unaffordable, and keep the private insurers in charge...and the remaining ones will merge and form bigger monopolies...But don't worry. We'll protect this from those mean old Republicans.

Yes we'll fight for gun control even if we can't really negotiate a solution to get it past the GOP and NRA. But you'll feel better that we're expressing our outrage.

We'll exercise American Power wisely. But you know Iran really needs to be put in their place. And a few US troops to send Assad out the door might be a good idea. It went so well in Iraq.

Yes we'll be very good for women's issues....,Except for the damage done by the continuing hollowing out of the middle class, working class and gutting of social services in the name of fiscal responsibility.

Don't worry, we'll keep verbally opposing the GOP, whether they are the majority or minority. But we won't go too deep and attack the Corporate Power Grab and Neo-Liberal policies that they represent because.....well, ya know, we kind of share those policies and values too. And some of have to look to our retirement from public office ...We'll need some supplementary income with lobbying jobs and speaking fees with those companies we regulate. But shhhhhhhh. That's just a side issue.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511812440


http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1812341

[Lizzie Poppet]

1. Yep...back to sleep in just a few more months.

Bread and circuses...

[Armstead]

6. Maybe the parties should be renamed "Bread" and "Circuses"

[Lizzie Poppet]

8. Perfect!

[Armstead]

10. I kind of like that one myself

I made it up myself too

[Fairgo]

32. Bravo

I will remember this.

[Autumn]

2. Recomended

for the sad fucking truth.

[riderinthestorm]

3. Madame President will be the worst president ever for failing to act aggressively on climate change

Fracking, the newly tweaked TPP (see its all better now amirite?), toxic wars - business as usual until the realities of increasingly severe weather and environmental events can no longer be brushed off.

She and her fellow 1%ers will survive nicely while we die in droves...

[yourpaljoey]

5. New slogan for Hill and the Party: Don't worry, it will get worse

[99Forever]

4. If that scenario plays out, we won't continue to pretend even care about politics.

We'll simply retire, worry only about taking care of ourselves and ignore the whole fucking corrupt bloody mess.

It's FUBAR on steroids. Thanks a lot Turd Way, you fucking s.

[Armstead]

7. That's pretty much what the majority of Americans have already done

30 years of gridlock, ingrained systemic corruption.....ineffectiveness at actually addressing the needs of Americans because DC has been bought and paid for..."Meh. They're all the same."

[99Forever]

11. I am battle weary. I have begun to accept that slimy shitballs like the Clintons...

...will drive the nation into an actual violent revolution. I only hope I have passed before that happens.

And it will happen.

[Armstead]

12. I think it'll just be a long slide into dystopia like in the movies

A combination of Idiocracy and Soylent Green

[99Forever]

14. That is a distinct possibility.

Either way, it's going to get VERY ugly.

[Armstead]

15. I try to be optimistic....But things like this keep beating that up

[99Forever]

20. I wish I could be optimistic.

I'm not. Not at all. Our nation is circling the bowl and the assholes in DC are almost all playing fiddles as it does. Our "media" is busy performing fellatio on TPTB, rather than doing a honest job of presenting what's really going on.

I'm too tired of being disappointed by people I trusted to be what they campaigned as, only to turn around and stab us in the back. Al Franken ran ads for Clinton during our primary? WTF? I worked on his god damn campaign FFS. That fucker is dead to me. As is every establishment bastard that jumped in and endorsed that woman before single vote was cast. FUCK THEM ALL. I'm done.

[Armstead]

22. But what do you REALLY think?

just kidding....

I feel the same way sometimes. It gets harder for a sense of political hope to bounce back -- especially this time. The tempation gets stronger to just respond with

[jwirr]

30. About a week ago I got an email from Franken telling me how

proud he was to be supporting Hillary. I am done supporting him. He will just have to win it on his own.

As to the revolution - it may come but when is another question. People in the poorer red states have been quietly setting there for decades and are still voting for TPTB.

Wisconsin was on top and drank the kool aid and reelected the man who put them there. Kansas likewise reelects their governor while he takes them down. Maine sets up there with LePage and does nothing.

I can understand Kansas - they have always been closer to the rw than to anything else but what about all those other states?

[Fairgo]

33. Devolution with intermittent cascades of crisis

we will fight more vociferously over the last dead rat than we ever did for the cause of democracy. Bernie is not a saviour, he is a sign post, an off ramp on the highway to hell. There will be others, further down the road. But the way back will be longer and rougher, and we are running out of gas.

[Go Vols]

41. Hope I am gone too.

[CrispyQ]

48. "...slimy shitballs like the Clintons..."

I actually LOL'd at that. I told my husband this morning that if HRC gets the nom & wins the GE I'll have to find my old Bush nerf ball to throw at the TV whenever Bill shows his mug. I'm so sick of him already.

[Nay]

9. That will be us, for sure. We retired a couple of years ago and have found

the whole political system (and the yahoo voters who bring their content-free emotional opinions to bear on everything) just so disgusting and unchangeable that we, too, are opting out simply from fatigue and age. We'll concentrate on setting up finances so our kid and grandkids can perhaps survive.

[jeff47]

17. Welcome to GenX.

The generation politicians never gave a shit about.

Golly, I wonder why turnout among GenX is so low......

[Armstead]

25. Don't feel bad...Since 1980, when it comes down to it most politicians....

haven't really given a shit about any age group, except when it comes to voting and writing checks.

[Go Vols]

42. +1

[stillwaiting]

13. Another decade surely can't hurt TOO much.

Voting system reforms. We need to fight for them. They are not giving up power unless we get this done first.

We may get some feel good wins (I.e. Canova may beat DWS), but that will not be close to being good enough to getting a political party that will actually fight for average Americans over entrenched corporate interests. And, feel good wins are all they are going to give us with the current system.

[seabeyond]

16. I gotta tell you, where you lose me. Your argument's foundation simply is not there.

You are suggesting a different type of governance. I suggest there is absolutely no foundation what so ever to think that might even be a possibility. SO from the start, you lose me.

Here is why. Here is how I see it.

Sanders has done nothing in the 25 yrs of congress. Looking at the first two decades of his adult life, he was totally, and irresponsibility none productive. So, lets add that up.

25 for congress.
20 for young adult hood.

45 yrs of Sanders accomplishing little to nothing.

This campaign. I have watched Sanders yell about debates, yell about suppression. And even with the national stage, I have seen Sanders take absolutely no step to follow thru. I have watched Clinton and Democrats follow thru on Sanders whine. But, they have been addressing this for a while, these are Democratic issues, not Sanders.

I see more follow thru in Obama and in his presidency, than a misrepresentation that Sanders has ability to get things done.

That is the first part your foundation that has no substance and stops me in my track. Sanders is all hat, no cattle. Imo.

Secondly. Sander suggests vague... break up banks, take down Wall street. Those campaign policies have no followup. No homework. He sits on Glass/Speigal as all there is to it and that is simply bullshit.

Then you have the $15 an hour, free college which will:

A. Minimum wage is a Democratic issue. Obama put it out all the way in 2009. Repugs are not allowing thru, so 1. Sanders can't do shit. 2. He is not doing anything to build that support with Democratic down ticket that takes me to all hat, again.

B. Free college. Obama has put out simply taking community/two yr colleges to free and hasn't had the support.

Clinton's is much more doable, the demand is out there from the public, addressing the debt of cost of college. With two kids in college, I get what she is suggesting and why. I do not want those that can afford college to get it free off the back of my wage with increased taxes.

Your argument that Clinton is a do nothing, and Sanders is a go getter, just makes me fuckin laugh at what I see to be the exact opposite and why I want Clinton. Obama has progressed us forward. I trust that Clinton will progress us further. I have no faith at all, (and I think I have laid out facts and arguments of why I believe), that Sanders will just sit on his ass.

[jeff47]

18. Did you look that up on a blank sheet of paper or something?

Sanders has done nothing in the 25 yrs of congress. Looking at the first two decades of his adult life, he was totally, and irresponsibility none productive. So, lets add that up.

25 for congress.
20 for young adult hood.

45 yrs of Sanders accomplishing little to nothing.

If you're going to attempt to "elevate the debate", you should not start with lying.

[seabeyond]

19. I do not feel it is a lie. I feel the data backs me up.

[jeff47]

21. Yay for truthiness!

Hattip to Colbert for creating that term.

There's a reason Sanders was frequently described as "the king of amendments". And you also don't get that description if you go around shouting "HAHAHA!! I STUCK THIS INTO YOUR BILL AND GOT YOU TO PASS IT!!!!".

Again, if you want to "elevate the debate", you can not lie about the subject at hand. Even if it feels truthy.

[Armstead]

24. The data does not back you up.I suggest you do some actual research

Use Google to look up things besides looking for things that support your own bias against him.

Look at how he ran Burlington as mayor. Look at all of the legislation and amendments he has successfully worked on and with in various ways.

More importantly look at he has worked to get some truth about our problems expressed in Congress.

Sanders positions are nothing terribly radical, or outside of what most people (except hard core conservatives) want. The things he has proposed in legislation should be something that all Democrats support, except too many Democrats have been bought or are too cowardly to stand up for,

As for Clinton, she was a mediocre Senator. She's done good things and not so good things. But she has bought into a system -- and represents a way of doing things -- that will not make any changes in patterns that have not been good.

[Armstead]

23. Thanks for saving me the effort

[Logical]

36. We know, you hated hillary before you loved her. LOL. nt

[seabeyond]

37. I didn't hate Clinton nor do I love Clinton. So, I guess you really do not know shit.

[Logical]

38. Ahhh, how adorable! Temper temper. nt

[seabeyond]

40. Not agreeing with you defining my emotions is a temper tantrum?

[Proud Liberal Dem]

26. Things would not have changed drastically under Bernie

Unless we are getting a massive Democratic wave that would give us a filibuster-proof majority in Congress along with him, which most rational people are not, unfortunately. If you can't see the value in at least having Hillary in the WH over Trump or Cruz, then I don't know what to say. We need to keep GOTV for Democrats and progressives at the local, state, and federal levels in every election until we start stemming the red tide and build real momentum for progressive change. Sitting around and complaining that there is not enough change or that it's not happening fast enough isn't going to help anybody anywhere anyhow.

[Logical]

39. Any different that if Hillary wins? nt

[Proud Liberal Dem]

53. Without having a Democratic Congress

ANY Democratic President is going to be hamstrung in terms of pushing their agenda through Congress. But having a Democrat in the WH ensures that we nominate the judicial vacancies and run the machinery of federal agencies (which we can utilize to push progressive policies at that level) and not the Republicans. I happen to believe that Hillary has more experience and knowledge to most effectively utilize the resources of the Executive Branch as POTUS.

[Armstead]

43. I have extremely mixed feelings at the prospect of another Clinton in the WH

Certainly better than a Trump or otehr GOpper.

But a far cry from what this nation needs, and likely to just perpetuate the systemic corruption and status quo that has deprived the political system of a true alternative on the issues of wealth and power and war and peace.

I'm not giving up, and would hope for a more optimistic outcome.

But been there, done that too many times. Saw the forces of reform marginalized in the 90's, 00's and even worse now in this primary.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

45. Reform keeps failing IMHO

because- at least since the 1990's- we elect a President and supportive Congress for two years and then go back to sleep until the next Presidential election after which the Republicans have had time to organize and re-group and win elections. Then, of course, we lost nearly a decade with Bush, in part because some people honestly believed that a President Gore would have governed no different. We just don't seem to have the infrastructure to support the kind of progressive changes that Sanders supporters seem to want- at present.

[CrispyQ]

49. Why did the dems dump the 50 state strategy?

Maybe party leadership doesn't really want a grassroots movement.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

51. I am not certain why the 50-state strategy languished

though it seemed like progressives were perpetually upset about some of the "Blue Dog" Democrats that the 50-state strategy helped elect in 2006 and 2008 (many of whom were largely washed out of Congress in 2010 and 2014). I personally believe that we need it back if we want to recapture a majority in Congress, though I'm not sure if we're going to wind up back in the same situation with not being able to move sufficiently progressive legislation through Congress.

[CrispyQ]

54. I never read why they dumped it.

I don't like the blue dogs either, but you have to start somewhere & the idea of just writing states off, is a loser strategy to me. It also perpetuates the elitist image that dems have with a lot of low info voters.

Congress is completely broken. The crisis both parties are facing shows that Americans are sick of politics as usual. The GOP is in a really bad place - worse than the dems, although the dem party is showing cracks, too. If the GOP tries to take the nom from Trump, I think there will be violence. I notice that my repub friends are posting anti-HRC/Sanders stuff - absolutely no pro-GOP candidate stuff at all. I'm nice, but I want to remind them that their party courted the crazies & now the chickens are coming home to roost.

If it's Trump vs Clinton, I honestly couldn't guess who would win. I know repubs who would vote HRC over Trump, & I know independents who would vote Trump over Clinton if Sanders loses. It's gonna be epic.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

55. Any Sanders supporter seriously thinking about voting for Trump

is seriously lost IMHO. I agree that we not only need a robust 50-state strategy but we also need a "no uncontested elections" strategy. Republicans are simply walking away with too many elections because Democrats or other third parties don't put up a candidate. We need to make Republicans fight for every vote, if nothing else.

[bbgrunt]

27. ...and kick!

[Joob]

28. No!!! Bernie Supporters Won't Go Back to Sleep!! Political Revolution Will Continue

IF Bernie loses. It won't be Pretty for The Establishment on both sides.

[brooklynite]

52. Wake me up when the revolution comes...

OCCUPY couldn't be bother to do anything political besides hold academic debates with twinkle fingers and hold teach-ins at their camp sites. No effort in the 2014 or 2016 cycle to get ahead of the game and support candidates who met their standards. The Sanders Revolution (™) hasn't worked to support more than a handful of candidates. I'm not expecting a big change in the future.

[Octafish]

29. Income Inequality? Bust up the Banks? When was it again we were talking about that?

Oh, well. I hear TPP is a lot better than what we were told.



And thank you for a most important OP, Armstead. Every word, which is about all we'll have cough Princeton.

[Armstead]

44. The 1960s

Since then the problem has gotten wider and more obscene....But Dems have been AWOL

[felix_numinous]

31. Don't drink the frackwater cool aid

it's laced with Monsanto chemicals, non biodegradable pharmaceuticals and countless unidentified ingredients. It's blinding and creates a sense of inevitable doom.

Cheers

[Todays_Illusion]

34. I'm not in a surrendering kind of mood and since I am in California, Bernie Sanders is the candidate

I will be voting for.

[nadinbrzezinski]

35. No, not really

But they are not asking for our opinion

[apnu]

46. Only if we let it.

Right now, everybody is obesssed with the top of the ticket. And no matter who wins, we'll be on auto-pilot because few who want change are bothering with the down ticket races. Bernie has endorsed only three down ticket contests and only after they pass his idological purity test. They are already there, Brenie didn't bring them in, and Bernie isn't calling for socialists and progressives to flood the local contests and parties.

The body of the party's status quo is, largley, being left alone right now. So even if Bernie wins, he'll have the Democratic Establishment to work with, which isn't going to work out well.

If we want actual change, we have to make it happen, and we have to make it happen on the local level first. Change does not trickle down from the top, it flows up from below. Look at the Civil Rights movement for example. Bernie was a part of that, but he seems to have forgotten it.

[Armstead]

47. I was about to write a longer response...But your last sentence turned me off.

[Broward]

50. There are too many useful idiots in the Dem Party

to move forward.