2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumHillary Clinton is going to be the next president of the United States.
Anyone who disagrees are in serious denial. The Republican party will not win the presidency for a long time, because theyre far too extreme.
Unfortunately the democratic is the old republican party. This country has 2 conservative parties. Income inequality will not be addressed by Third Way democrats because they do not believe the country is headed in the wrong direction. Thus the push for incremental change aka everything is alright in corporacrats minds.
A corporacrat is better than a Republican but still bad for America.
Under corporacrats and republicans the continuation of bubble economies persist.
Hillary better learn to be progressive, because an economic downturn is coming.
Economic collapses are how the billionaire class loots from the 99%.
Either way I see the corporate control of the democratic in its last days.
This country's future is progressive.
2pooped2pop
(5,420 posts)And some will die.
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)direction anyway. Bill Clinton's record will be exposed as pure garbage.
Robbins
(5,066 posts)they agree with Bill Clinton's record and his attacks on both bernie supporters and BLM.
KPN
(15,650 posts)Based on everything the Party has said (He's not a Democrat, etc.) and done during this primary, that's what the Democratic Party basically wants him to do.
I think it would be only fitting for Bernie to comply with their wishes.
JTFrog
(14,274 posts)Nothing shitty about that at all.
KPN
(15,650 posts)had he started his campaign as an Independent? Do you think any candidate can get sufficient national attention in the GE without being present and highly visible during the "primaries" season?
The two party system holds anyone outside the parties, whether candidate or citizen, hostage via their current vice grip. They play hard ball. The DNC has played hard ball every step along the way with Bernie. The two parties are currently giving us a slate of candidates (with the exception of Bernie) who all enjoy less than 50% favorability rating among the American public. On the D side, Hillary has, what, a 36% favorability rating?
The parties are not giving the majority of Americans what they want -- on the issues or with candidates. And you are worried about being nice to the parties?
Good grief!
JTFrog
(14,274 posts)Pretty fucking rude.
KPN
(15,650 posts)Broward
(1,976 posts)BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)It would be nice to have a progressive voice in the race instead of two corporate conservatives running alone.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)No surrender. EVER FUCKING AGAIN.
ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.
Skwmom
(12,685 posts)The corporate republican and democratic whores will be right there looting with their big money overlords.
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)one term presidency.
Robbins
(5,066 posts)Clinton only cares about her power and wall street donors.she is enemy of progressives.a shame more don't see it.
JanetLovesObama
(548 posts)Welcome Madame President Hillary Rodham Clinton !
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)And, to Pres. Trump or Cruz, too, for good measure.
What a sucky bunch of elitists we have running.
auntpurl
(4,311 posts)I think about all the little girls who will be at home thinking "That could be me!"
Arizona Roadrunner
(168 posts)I just heard a Clinton campaign "spokesperson" (Fallon) complaining that Sanders is "attacking" their weak candidate and therefore it will hurt her for the general election. Isn't that what a primary is for? To find out who the weak and stronger candidates are? If they can't handle "friendly fire" what makes you think they can handle "the enemy fire" of the general election. Trump is already calling Hillary "crooked Hillary" which in and of itself will invite scrutiny of any perceived "wrong doing" in speeches vs. perceived "pay offs" etc. let alone scrutiny of decisions and timing of contributions to the Clinton Foundation.
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)I"m in the until June. How 'bout you?
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)The repubs have a lot of dirt on Hillary that Bernie wouldn't use. The FBI could recommend indictment or at a minimum strongly criticize her actions. Independents really do not like her and the republicans could pick up a winning margin there.
We do have only two major parties and both are now conservative and heavily corporate influenced.
Apparently that's what a big majority of voters want. When the rubber meets the road, the voters aren't really all that concerned with inequality or corporate dominance. They aren't really that concerned about Climate Change either. They seem to be happy with foreign policy hawks, always looking for that next place to use the military, in power.
I would say the country's future is bleak, not progressive. at least for the next decade.
ThePhilosopher04
(1,732 posts)to vote against her and liberal independents will stay home or vote Green. She has no shot.
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)The demographics are not in the GOP's favor.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)JRLeft
(7,010 posts)whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)ThePhilosopher04
(1,732 posts)JRLeft
(7,010 posts)All in it together
(275 posts)They've taken her side or feel they're standing up for Obama and won't look at her with any objectivity.
Hillary scares the shit out of me for this country and the world. We will turn this Oligarchy around soon or it will be too late for us and the earth to come out relatively unscathed. Hillary won't change this trajectory enough to matter. It pays her to support the Oligarchy. If Hillary wins expecting her to turn her back on the oligarchy is pie in the sky. She'll need extreme push back by the people, and possibly she'll do a few things for us. Too bad we've lost the party to the oligarchy, the people would like it back please.
Kittycat
(10,493 posts)I wonder if Rachel Maddow will put out a revision or part 2, to her book and documentary. Now that we know more of the truth around the Iraq War. I still can't believe Hillary voted for it. Then again, seeing her actions towards other countries, and the fleecing of their land and resources after - maybe I can. I guess that's not a story Rachel wants to shine a light on through, is it?
Time for change
(13,718 posts)I agree, but....
With all the campaign money she is receiving from special interests, and considering that she has voted for every trade deal that has hurt our nation's workers so badly, I think that it is unrealistic to think that she will.
I agree that the situation looks bleak now for anyone else getting the Democratic nomination. Hillary almost the whole weight of the Democratic Party behind her, otherwise she would be out of the race by now. The Democratic Party is no longer progressive. There is much evidence for that, but the biggest evidence is their massive support for Hillary over Bernie.
All the evidence points to the fact that Bernie would stand a much better chance against any Republican nominee than Hillary would. He is doing much better than her in head to head polling against all the Republican candidates, and he is beating her in favorability rating (with all voters, not limited to Democrats) by about 20 points (+7 vs. -13). The Republicans are saving a vast amount of ammunition against her (including leaks of her speeches to Wall Street) for when (and if) she gets the nomination, after which her unfavorability ratings are likely to plummet so low that she wouldn't stand a chance against any Republican candidate. And what if she gets indicted after receiving the nomination?
In contrast, they don't have any good ammunition against Bernie. I'm sure they'll call him a Marxist, etc. etc., but he does an excellent job of brushing off those insults. If Social Security, living wages for all, controls over fraudulent financial practices by our financial industries, affordable health care for all, etc. is Socialism, then yes, Bernie is a Socialist. But when Americans understand what his brand of "Socialism" involves, that label will be a plus, not a minus. Since he already has a commanding lead in the polls against all presidential candidates of either party, that will translate to a landslide Democratic win in November.
So if the Democratic Party really cares about winning in November, they will seriously consider changing their support to Bernie. But do they care? Would they rather see a Bernie presidency or a Republican presidency for the next 4 years? The way they are acting now suggests to me that they would rather see the latter, because they don't want to lose control of their party to an anti-establishment outsider.
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)parties have played on the people of this nation.
Robbins
(5,066 posts)she would govern like her husband and to right of obama.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)She has more baggage than the whole GOP field combined.
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)Octafish
(55,745 posts)Robbins
(5,066 posts)I don't know what some are smoking.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)It will take a Democrat to destroy our social safety nets, which is just the goal of Third Way Democrats.
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)will be annihilated in the midterms.
Robbins
(5,066 posts)if she wins dems will get maussacured in midterm in 2018.If she loses dems have no chance.GOP will use what she did and what
they do to make sure republicans can't lose in 2018 ensuring GOP majority of congress for decades to come.
Dawgs
(14,755 posts)1) Just under 6 out of 10 people don't like her, find her untrustworthy, or to be a liar.
2) Millennials don't think she's any better than the Republicans. They also aren't connected to the party.
3) Bernie supporters, Democrats or not, don't like Hillary. She may get most to vote for her against Trump, but most isn't good enough. She will need all of them.
4) Independents don't like her. They prefer Trump or Bernie.
5) Republicans desperately want to be in the WH again. They will hold their nose and vote for Trump or Cruz over Hillary. It's not even close.
6) She doesn't inspire or create enthusiasm ... compare to Bernie and Obama, or even Trump.
7) She doesn't offer any plan or message for the future. Obama had one of hope and change, and Bernie has one of economic equality.
8) She's part of the establishment. That's not a good place to be in 2016.
9) Much of her message is to be the status-quo President that will continue Obama's Presidency. Not very inspiring when all Republicans, almost all Independents, and quite a few Democrats want big change now.
10) She's not a very good candidate. She keeps things (speeches, etc.) from the public that make her look like she's hiding something. Her and Bill get unnecessarily angry when confronted. And, she changes so many positions on issues that it's hard for people to figure out what she really believes.
Trust Buster
(7,299 posts)Miles Archer
(18,837 posts)Let's get one thing straight.
If Hillary gets the job...if...she's not going to "learn" on damned thing.
It will be four years of "I'm the Decider."
Deja Vu all over again.
Robbins
(5,066 posts)Democratic party has been exposed as centrist corporist neocon party.many so called progressives have been exposed as phonys.
what Bush did in florida and ohio dems are doing for clinton all over the country In primarys and caucus.
dems were fine with swiftboating of bernie on civil rights.so they are no different than Bush.John Lewis knew exactly what he was
doing when tried to say bernie did nothing for civil rights but clintons did.
The democratic party must agree with Bill Clinton calling bernie supporters tea party and wanting to commit murder
after Bill Clinton melttdown on BLM dems like charlie rangel still campagined with him meaning they support what he said.
Issues matters.so many dems who endorsed clinton must support her on Issues.
Many ignore independents don't like clinton.amnd anywhere from 17% to 33% of bernie supporters won't vote for her.back in 2008
17% of clinton supporters voted for Mccain.
dems are fine with voter fraud being committed against bernie supporters.
We have been called everything from racists to nazis by clinton supporters.
A Clinton nomination shows the pretense of democratic party being progressive is over.we have 2 coporate neocon partys.
Clinton has been benefiting from citizen united.the idea she would work to overturn it is laughable.and is the idea she will be
tough on wall street.Hello her son in law is hedge fund manager.
polls show clinton would be in deat heat with Cruz and would lose to Kasich.If ryan was drafted a poll says he and clinton would
be in dead heat.
nominating Clinton would have 2 possable outcomes 1:She hands white house to gop and 2:she wins In squaker
And don't kid yourself another president Clinton would sign much of what GOP congress passes.
Much of democratic party only cares about corporate money.more power to corporations,more war,and continued destrucon of social safety net is coming If Clinton Is nominee.her or republicans will do it.
Progressives have no place In Democratic party If Clinton is nominee.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)She'll be doing nothing but fighting impeachment and toadying for Wall Street the entire term...
Karmadillo
(9,253 posts)an alternative history.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)But she is actually the future of the Democrats. They are going home to a pro business stance. The party of FDR is dead.
That said, what you said about Rs you are correct. Only because that party is dying. There will be a progressive future, but not with either Republicans or Democrats. In the meantime it will be distressingly painful. 1824, read into what happened then
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)It is known as the era of one party rule...party realignments, they happen. This is the 6th one. I saw this and wrote about it over a decade ago on DU no less
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Hiraeth
(4,805 posts)I am really afraid this is going to turn ugly.
pdsimdars
(6,007 posts)silvershadow
(10,336 posts)djean111
(14,255 posts)And won't get to be president with my vote.
stillwaiting
(3,795 posts)It will be HER Party Chair that controls the Party Establishment/Leadership.
She will be able to steer the Party to recruit and fund neo-liberal Democrats as candidates and to PURPOSEFULLY shun progressive candidates whenever possible.
We will have a much harder and longer road to travel to begin turning this country back around with HRC as President. Another decade lost where the wealth/income overwhelmingly flows to the financial elite while everyone else loses ground.
Sad, but true (in my opinion).
ThePhilosopher04
(1,732 posts)basselope
(2,565 posts)She doesn't have the support to win in the GE.
What people are not considering is the amount of Shenanigans the GOP has put into place to suppress the vote in key states. The ONLY way to get around it is MASSIVE voter turnout. Clinton will not inspire that turnout.
Hiraeth
(4,805 posts)This OP is not helping/educating anyone.
BreakfastClub
(765 posts)from all kinds of setbacks before. As for her learning to be progressive, she doesn't need to do that. She is and always has been progressive. No, she is not a socialist, but she is a mainstream progressive democrat. She's no different than Obama in ideology.