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Why would any Democrat support hillary after seeing this .... (Original Post) berniepdx420 Apr 2016 OP
First woman president Kalidurga Apr 2016 #1
👆 This deathrind Apr 2016 #13
+1 quantass Apr 2016 #64
They'd be lining up to vote for Maggie Thatcher XemaSab Apr 2016 #70
lol TheDormouse Apr 2016 #72
Hillary Clinton: Thatcher in a pantsuit. Fawke Em Apr 2016 #77
First woman candidate found to violate her security oath while running for President leveymg Apr 2016 #82
Hilarious! LOL! silvershadow Apr 2016 #101
waiting for the resounding applause on the only note iAZZZo Apr 2016 #71
Hillary would be the first woman President representing corporations and Wall Street imagine2015 Apr 2016 #95
Yep so no different than all the male Presidents that did the same. Kalidurga Apr 2016 #96
And the last, if she is the first 2pooped2pop Apr 2016 #103
Because you're ALWAYS going to get progressive change just by electing the first woman to an office: Ken Burch Apr 2016 #115
Why would anyone continue to post this as fact? Agschmid Apr 2016 #2
The difference between the two candidates is glaring. Sanders supports the 99% rhett o rick Apr 2016 #10
Yawn. TexasTowelie Apr 2016 #59
Correct information is always welcome. Please provide. TalkingDog Apr 2016 #28
No point. Agschmid Apr 2016 #31
Pouty affectations that you care about fact and truth but when your candidate spews lies Bluenorthwest Apr 2016 #45
Nothing like a little name calling, and accusing people of groupthink... Agschmid Apr 2016 #51
... Bubzer Apr 2016 #53
Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2016 #102
Good question without a good answer. BillZBubb Apr 2016 #3
Why would anyone assume Bernie's positions are Democratic party positions? wyldwolf Apr 2016 #4
because polls nt TheDormouse Apr 2016 #6
^ clarification: I meant, Democratic voters, not party Establishment nt TheDormouse Apr 2016 #7
This isn't about the party's opinions; It is about yours and mine. lumberjack_jeff Apr 2016 #8
^ This. AzDar Apr 2016 #57
Right. And the Bundys say it's not about law-breaking, it's about the Constitution. randome Apr 2016 #63
Do you have an answer to the OP? DisgustipatedinCA Apr 2016 #120
No, I don't. And I'm not going to decide who the more 'pure' candidate is, either. randome Apr 2016 #123
Who do you agree with..on each issue ?? berniepdx420 Apr 2016 #9
Why do you guys only ask questions instead of actually taking a position. Rhetorical. rhett o rick Apr 2016 #11
That's exactly right. When she has waited to choose sides on any topic, they are mute on the topic. GoneFishin Apr 2016 #84
Why do they remind me of Trump supporters? nm rhett o rick Apr 2016 #88
Then you'll be OK when we leave if she gets the nomination to start a party Fawke Em Apr 2016 #79
If you support conservative positions go join the God-damnned Republicans. Odin2005 Apr 2016 #93
bcz definition of "Democrat" has slid so far to the right that TheDormouse Apr 2016 #5
A real Democrat is a Democrat. OhZone Apr 2016 #12
A Democrat is one that stands by the principles of Democrats. That doesn't rhett o rick Apr 2016 #14
LOL OhZone Apr 2016 #20
And apparently all you care about are labels. Not surprised. How shallow. nm rhett o rick Apr 2016 #21
No, silly man, follow the thread. OhZone Apr 2016 #23
sexist much berniepdx420 Apr 2016 #76
So you agree that Sanders is more of a Democrat than Clinton. Good. nm rhett o rick Apr 2016 #118
Of course not. He's an Independent extremist just using - OhZone Apr 2016 #121
The New Deal, Social Security, MediCare, The Great Society, and Equal Rights ARE... bvar22 Apr 2016 #32
we really need a LIKE button here! TheDormouse Apr 2016 #37
Yes, all pushed by a RICH ESTABLISMENT Democrat JUST LIKE HILLARY! nt OhZone Apr 2016 #41
Pushed for votes. Fawke Em Apr 2016 #80
If she pushed those policies, I would already be voting for her in the primary regardless of Dragonfli Apr 2016 #86
Even FDR wouldn't have pushed that hard for them if there wasn't a Great Depression. OhZone Apr 2016 #91
It's very stupid to wait for a preventable tragedy to occur before acting. tabasco Apr 2016 #99
I agree that it's stupid to wait, but Hillary is no Hoover. OhZone Apr 2016 #106
How do you know she's no Hoover? tabasco Apr 2016 #107
I see you aren't familiar with Hillary's position on these issues. bvar22 Apr 2016 #113
+1 gabillion. GoneFishin Apr 2016 #85
Well Done, bvar22 2banon Apr 2016 #116
Absolutely historically correct. There are no written in stone principles for a name floppyboo Apr 2016 #68
FYI floppyboo Apr 2016 #69
Did Bill bring it hjome with Silver_Witch Apr 2016 #111
nener nener... so you agree with Hillary on the issues listed in the OP berniepdx420 Apr 2016 #74
If you want to be a real Democrat annavictorious Apr 2016 #105
That's a wrong headed attitude, Bernie is more inline with Democratic principles and always wiil be All in it together Apr 2016 #108
So.. which of the issues in the OP do you side with Hillary ?? berniepdx420 Apr 2016 #19
Oh my god, don't ask about issues. It's about labels and personalities. Besides rhett o rick Apr 2016 #24
"It's about labels and personalities." -- You're 100% right. nt TheDormouse Apr 2016 #47
You are aware, I hope, that it is a little DEEPER than just a name? pdsimdars Apr 2016 #22
The essence of Democrats also involves to actually build coalitions and - OhZone Apr 2016 #25
Who the hell do you think you're speaking to? rhett o rick Apr 2016 #30
You must be listening to FOX-----or to the Hillary propaganda.... Land of Enchantment Apr 2016 #40
I wonder how many Hillocrats are planning their Havana trip floppyboo Apr 2016 #73
Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2016 #104
Oh my god he went to Moscow wowowow Silver_Witch Apr 2016 #110
I would LOVE to see Russia before I die. bvar22 Apr 2016 #119
+1 n/t Triana Apr 2016 #114
That's a little misleading. rhett o rick Apr 2016 #15
True True and True berniepdx420 Apr 2016 #17
Wow! OhZone Apr 2016 #36
I don't know... it is A Lot to Ask.... KoKo Apr 2016 #16
Ditto and Amen. I'm getting too old for this Land of Enchantment Apr 2016 #46
I would still vote for Hillary though if she was what she wants us to think she is. Kalidurga Apr 2016 #81
Her votes, donors and issue positions sure look Republican to me. senz Apr 2016 #18
Total bullshit- She was one of the most liberal Senators in Congress redstateblues Apr 2016 #49
Consummate sophistry builds distrust and turns into noise unless sourced for the candidate... uponit7771 Apr 2016 #26
puff puff give.. your thoughts are a bit disjointed.. let's start by you telling us which of these berniepdx420 Apr 2016 #33
Sigh, start a conversation then inject high school ass'd ad homs knowing damn well uponit7771 Apr 2016 #38
your not serious... thanks though berniepdx420 Apr 2016 #42
Typical uponit7771 Apr 2016 #56
hate ??.. by actually listing some major issues and how each candidates stands on them.. if you berniepdx420 Apr 2016 #60
MAJOR ISSUES TO WHO!?!!?! WOW... are you guys just waiting to type back a response or uponit7771 Apr 2016 #61
go ahead please.. we may agree with some... we may disagree on others... but if your gonna throw berniepdx420 Apr 2016 #62
There's no shade being thrown here, I don't care how rich she is or if she gets her money from rich uponit7771 Apr 2016 #67
What! N...ized ! I don't believe it! All in it together Apr 2016 #109
that's a very fair request nt TheDormouse Apr 2016 #65
I think you have some audacity to tell another how to "present a case." But I rhett o rick Apr 2016 #35
Again, instead of engaging in a conversation just engage in ad homs and expect uponit7771 Apr 2016 #54
Again the audacity to tell us what to do. I think it's the bully mentality of the Clinton fans. rhett o rick Apr 2016 #90
Apparently Clinton Supporters Like Her War Hawk 1% Ways - Why - Who The Hell Knows cantbeserious Apr 2016 #27
They are the kids on the playground that hid behind the biggest bully. Only brave rhett o rick Apr 2016 #43
Personal net worth is meaningless to me. David__77 Apr 2016 #29
How bout the points...?? berniepdx420 Apr 2016 #34
The Iraq War and death penalty ones matter to me and I agree with Sanders on those. David__77 Apr 2016 #50
Ok thanks .. do you agree with hillary on the others ? berniepdx420 Apr 2016 #55
Agree, but it is important how they amassed such a fortune. If corruption is involved then rhett o rick Apr 2016 #48
If there's something that I find unethical about how wealth was procured, then I'd care about that David__77 Apr 2016 #52
THANK YOU!! I just posted something similar that the things on this list don't speak to uponit7771 Apr 2016 #58
I don't trust Bernie-I don't like Bernie-I can't afford Bernie redstateblues Apr 2016 #39
ok .. thanks for your opinion.. I would ask for some details to your answers though.. berniepdx420 Apr 2016 #44
I can't afford Bernie - lol - are you one of those that does not believe in America? SoLeftIAmRight Apr 2016 #78
Thats Odd. bvar22 Apr 2016 #122
Indeed noretreatnosurrender Apr 2016 #66
many are comfortable as things stand and don't want to rock the boat too much TheDormouse Apr 2016 #75
I don't see 1994 Crime bill, Brady bill, automatic weapons ban, gun loophole, Jitter65 Apr 2016 #83
I'll happily discuss each one of these.. let's start with the Crime Bill... do you care to start berniepdx420 Apr 2016 #89
Hello.......crickets.... berniepdx420 Apr 2016 #112
...because I don't make political decisions based on Photoshop memes? brooklynite Apr 2016 #87
Or on issues, it would seem. Doctor_J Apr 2016 #94
Must. Have. Female. President. Now. Doctor_J Apr 2016 #92
Because she can afford to pay them more per post? cui bono Apr 2016 #97
Sunlight and all that. Wow. Nt MaeScott Apr 2016 #98
Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2016 #100
Because some of them don't have a healthy values system and don't actually care about corruption. DisgustipatedinCA Apr 2016 #117

deathrind

(1,786 posts)
13. 👆 This
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 08:46 PM
Apr 2016

Facts / Positions on issues / History of actions do not matter here. It is simply because of the potential history making event of the first woman to be named President of the United States.

If both candidates were of the same gender a great majority of the Democratic Party from the DNC on down to the single issue voter would be solidly behind the candidate who's positions and history populate the middle column of that optic.

XemaSab

(60,212 posts)
70. They'd be lining up to vote for Maggie Thatcher
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 09:45 PM
Apr 2016

BTW, has anyone seen Thatcher and Hillary in the same room?

leveymg

(36,418 posts)
82. First woman candidate found to violate her security oath while running for President
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 10:05 PM
Apr 2016

A real historical figure.

 

2pooped2pop

(5,420 posts)
103. And the last, if she is the first
Sun Apr 17, 2016, 07:47 AM
Apr 2016

Her immediate impeachment proceedings will ensure that no other woman gets a chance. Hillary will be that bad that it will automatically prevent the next woman from getting there. What a shame and disservice she is doing to us all.

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
115. Because you're ALWAYS going to get progressive change just by electing the first woman to an office:
Sun Apr 17, 2016, 01:35 PM
Apr 2016
 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
10. The difference between the two candidates is glaring. Sanders supports the 99%
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 08:42 PM
Apr 2016

and Clinton supports the 1%. Did you see what Black Lives Matters wrote about H. Clinton?

“Here's the truth: the Clinton legacy has left our prisons bursting at the seams. Real lives have been destroyed as a result. It is an indisputable fact that millions of Black people were locked up for drug crimes and provided the bodies for the expansion of the prison industry."

There's more but I bet you are willing to overlook her treatment of the AA community so that Goldman-Sachs gets bigger and bigger profits.

Mammon: The greedy pursuit of wealth or the worship of such.

Agschmid

(28,749 posts)
31. No point.
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 09:05 PM
Apr 2016

When people don't care.

I think I'm done with GDP, I managed to last this long, but this is it.

First time I've trashed anything, or ignored anything.

Good luck y'all.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
45. Pouty affectations that you care about fact and truth but when your candidate spews lies
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 09:15 PM
Apr 2016

about wildly important things you and your fellow travelers on the Hillary Highway just don't give a fuck about it.



Agschmid

(28,749 posts)
51. Nothing like a little name calling, and accusing people of groupthink...
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 09:18 PM
Apr 2016

Who clearly aren't part of that group.

Response to Agschmid (Reply #31)

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
8. This isn't about the party's opinions; It is about yours and mine.
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 08:38 PM
Apr 2016

If you agree with the Clinton column, by all means vote for her. But stop calling yourself a progressive.

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
63. Right. And the Bundys say it's not about law-breaking, it's about the Constitution.
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 09:27 PM
Apr 2016

We can't support the Democratic Party because...it's evil!! And everyone else isn't as 'authentic' as you are!

I would think some would be wise enough to accept others' descriptions of themselves as 'Progressive' without resorting to "No, you're not. I am!"
[hr][font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.
[/center][/font][hr]

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
123. No, I don't. And I'm not going to decide who the more 'pure' candidate is, either.
Mon Apr 18, 2016, 09:10 AM
Apr 2016

Clinton is a Democrat. Sanders is a sort-of Democrat. Either of them will be fine as our next President.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]The truth doesn’t always set you free.
Sometimes it builds a bigger cage around the one you’re already in.
[/center][/font][hr]

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
11. Why do you guys only ask questions instead of actually taking a position. Rhetorical.
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 08:43 PM
Apr 2016

It's obvious, authoritarian adulation. You don't have a position, you just want Clinton.

GoneFishin

(5,217 posts)
84. That's exactly right. When she has waited to choose sides on any topic, they are mute on the topic.
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 10:12 PM
Apr 2016

They don't give a shit about policies, they are just cheering for a team jersey.

Fawke Em

(11,366 posts)
79. Then you'll be OK when we leave if she gets the nomination to start a party
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 09:58 PM
Apr 2016

for the people that the Democratic Party used to represent.

Good luck in November with that split.

Odin2005

(53,521 posts)
93. If you support conservative positions go join the God-damnned Republicans.
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 11:10 PM
Apr 2016

I am so fucking sick of DINOs.

TheDormouse

(1,168 posts)
5. bcz definition of "Democrat" has slid so far to the right that
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 08:34 PM
Apr 2016

people don't recognize a real progressive Democrat when they see one anymore.

OhZone

(3,212 posts)
12. A real Democrat is a Democrat.
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 08:43 PM
Apr 2016

A real Independent who is still running as an Independent for his Senate race is an Independent.

Democrats have always been a big tent party. Some are conservative, most are pretty Centrist to left, a few are more left.

The GOP is almost all far right now.

BTW, just asking.... a real Socialist goes to Sweden on his Honeymoon Not Moscow?

Oh well.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
14. A Democrat is one that stands by the principles of Democrats. That doesn't
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 08:47 PM
Apr 2016

include bowing and scraping to Lord Bush and helping him kill a million people. A real Democrat stands for the people and not Goldman-Fracking-Sachs. A real Democrat wouldn't destroy the AA community just to support the profits of Prisons For Profits. A real Democrat wouldn't put Fracking for Oil Profits ahead of the clean drinking water of humans.

Sen Sanders has always aligned with Democratic Principles while H. Clinton is a Democrat in Name Only.

OhZone

(3,212 posts)
20. LOL
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 08:54 PM
Apr 2016

There are no "principles of Democrats" written in stone. There is a concensus of opinion on many things, but not 100%. The Democrats are a big tent party.

And Sanders is outside the mainstream of the Democrats by his very definition.

An Independent.

A Socialist?

Very few Democrats would say that they're Socialist or Independent.

To claim he's a Democrat would make him a baldface liar.

And ALMOST NO Democrats would praise some of the people's praised. Or gone to Moscow on their honemoons.

I like Bernie in some ways, but he is just USING the Democratic Party by his own admission.



OhZone

(3,212 posts)
121. Of course not. He's an Independent extremist just using -
Sun Apr 17, 2016, 01:50 PM
Apr 2016

Democrats.

By his own admission.

A user. I hate users.

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
32. The New Deal, Social Security, MediCare, The Great Society, and Equal Rights ARE...
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 09:05 PM
Apr 2016

"Etched in Stone" as Democratic Principles. Those are the cornerstones that made out Party GREAT.

Here are other "Democratic Principles" as laid our by the Father of the Modern Democratic Party. I still live by these principles:

In our day these economic truths have become accepted as self-evident. We have accepted, so to speak, a second Bill of Rights under which a new basis of security and prosperity can be[font size=3] established for all—regardless of station, race, or creed.[/font]

Among these are:

*The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;

*The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;

*The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;

*The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;

*The right of every family to a decent home;

*The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;

*The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;

*The right to a good education.

All of these rights spell security. And after this war is won we must be prepared to move forward, in the implementation of these rights, to new goals of human happiness and well-being.

[font size=3]America's own rightful place in the world depends in large part upon how fully these and similar rights have been carried into practice for all our citizens.[/font]


Please note that the above are stipulated as Basic Human RIGHTS to be protected by our government,
and NOT as COMMODITIES to be SOLD to Americans by For Profit Corporations.


Like I said above, "Etched in Stone"!

--bvar22
a mainstrean-Center New Deal/Great Society DEMOCRAT
now called a "fringe Leftist by the "New Democrats".
I haven't changed,
and won't be changing in the near future.
These Clintonian "New Democrats" can go back to the Republican party where they came from.


[font color=firebrick][center]"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans.
I want a party that will STAND UP for Working Americans."
---Paul Wellstone [/font]
[/center] [center] [/font]
[font size=1]photo by bvar22
Shortly before Sen Wellstone was killed[/center]
[/font]



You will know them by their WORKS!

Dragonfli

(10,622 posts)
86. If she pushed those policies, I would already be voting for her in the primary regardless of
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 10:19 PM
Apr 2016

how much money her family left her as FDR's did.
Unfortunately her polices are antithetical to those do she may as well join the party tat also opposes FDR party policies.

Tell me if you bought a brand of soda named Pepsi, and really liked it,
but then they changed the formula to include 50% horse piss would you still prefer what you were drinking because the can still had the label Pepsi on it?

You may answer or leave it as a rhetorical, your choice, but I just don't like the taste of horse piss no matter what the label on the can might be. Why is such a concept not understood?

I find it easy to grasp myself.

OhZone

(3,212 posts)
91. Even FDR wouldn't have pushed that hard for them if there wasn't a Great Depression.
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 10:40 PM
Apr 2016

We don't do revolutions in this country unless there's something that big. Things have slowly gotten better under Obama, and it would be lovely to continue to build on his legacy.

 

tabasco

(22,974 posts)
99. It's very stupid to wait for a preventable tragedy to occur before acting.
Sun Apr 17, 2016, 07:29 AM
Apr 2016

Sanders is trying to save us from a national socio-economic meltdown, in which tens of millions of people would suffer. It's called "learning from history." The same conditions that led to the Great Depression are occurring now. H. Clinton represents Herbert Hoover, who would do nothing as the economy implodes.

OhZone

(3,212 posts)
106. I agree that it's stupid to wait, but Hillary is no Hoover.
Sun Apr 17, 2016, 10:28 AM
Apr 2016

She has a strong wall street plan that Warren praised. She is center left on many issues.

And it's not a matter of just waiting, it's a matter of what's possible when you have a GOP Congress and a largely centrist electorate. The vast majority of the country is not ready for a far left agenda. They just aren't. Apparently not even Democrats are, since Hillary is winning.

Now YOU need to learn from history. Learn that McGovern lost. Learn that Mondale lost because he said he would raise taxes. Learn that rich establishment FDR beat the socialist in the 30s.

 

tabasco

(22,974 posts)
107. How do you know she's no Hoover?
Sun Apr 17, 2016, 11:03 AM
Apr 2016

We still haven't seen what she told the bankers. She's accepting a great deal of political damage to keep those transcripts out of public view.

LOL - the old canard that Sanders = McGovern. So predictable, but how do you explain Sanders' much higher polling against ALL republicans? You see what you want to see, just like Herbert Hoover. Get your head out of the sand and take off your blinders.

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
113. I see you aren't familiar with Hillary's position on these issues.
Sun Apr 17, 2016, 01:29 PM
Apr 2016

*She OPPOSES most of those listed by FDR as basic Human Rights.

floppyboo

(2,461 posts)
68. Absolutely historically correct. There are no written in stone principles for a name
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 09:39 PM
Apr 2016

Democrats at one time were much closer to tea-baggers. It's like Bill brought them all back home. Whereas 'conservative' democrats have generally been more left leaning/morally socialist in their caring of their sisters and brothers.

It's a whole new world babe! Embrace what you like, but name calling isn't going to change anyone's mind who knows their history. (Oh ya, those socialist public schools teach that history shite)

 

Silver_Witch

(1,820 posts)
111. Did Bill bring it hjome with
Sun Apr 17, 2016, 01:09 PM
Apr 2016

Welfare reform, or perhaps mass incarceration, or maybe it was NAFTA ...no no I think it was vetting blow jobs in the oval office be an intern that brought it all back and then lying on national TV about that woman.

 

annavictorious

(934 posts)
105. If you want to be a real Democrat
Sun Apr 17, 2016, 08:16 AM
Apr 2016

register with the party and work to support and elect its down ticket candidates. There's one real Democrat in the race, and only real Democrats will be voting in several of the coming primaries.

Non-Democrats don't get to define the party. Do you have any idea how ridiculous and entitled some of you sound to the people who are there year after year doing the hard work of putting Democrats in office in local and state government?

As for Sanders and the Democratic party, it's always been and continues to be a matter of what's best and most convenient for him and him alone. He is an outsider to the extent that it benefits him and a "Democrat" when he can profit from the alliance. He is the definition of self-interest.

The real Democrats will be at the polls this Tuesday in NY. I'll be there. If you are a New York Democrat, you'll be there too, and if Sanders is your candidate, then give him your vote. If he wins the nomination, I hope you will remind him that with rights, come obligations, in this case to down ballot candidates who need funding and support. There is nothing quite as odious as a free rider.


All in it together

(275 posts)
108. That's a wrong headed attitude, Bernie is more inline with Democratic principles and always wiil be
Sun Apr 17, 2016, 11:39 AM
Apr 2016

I'm a life long Democrat, voter, contributor and volunteer for the party. I'm on the credentials and platform committees of our state Democratic Party with many other Bernie supporters. Your attitude towards Bernie supporters shows what's wrong with the party. Insiders only get a chance with you. You don't want to grow the party, you want it to be more insular.

Bernie is what our party needs to regain it's principles and many new and returning members as well as Democrats who are disgusted by our own party for it's listening to big money influences and leaning more and more right wing.

Hillary and her supporters aren't progressive even if they are Democrats. If they think they really are they should examine Hillary's record and see if that's what they support.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
24. Oh my god, don't ask about issues. It's about labels and personalities. Besides
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 09:01 PM
Apr 2016

you must feel a little sympathy for Clinton supporters. How can they tell you where they stand on issues when they don't know where she stands. Take fracking for example. Where the hell does she stand? No one knows. How about the TPP? I think I heard her say, "I won't support the TPP if is doesn't do stuff that it should do to help the people that should be helped." In other words, who the frack knows where she stands. She is a little more definite about her position on medical marijuana. This is what I think I heard her say, "Why would we trust medical marijuana when no major US corporation is making a profit?" Well she's got us there.

 

pdsimdars

(6,007 posts)
22. You are aware, I hope, that it is a little DEEPER than just a name?
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 08:57 PM
Apr 2016

There are certain positions and issues associated with "Democrat". And if you look deeper than the shiny object level of the label, the traditional positions that have been Democratic positions on the issues are the OPPOSITE of what Hillary Clinton stands for. And, as it turns out, Bernie is the essence of what it means to be a Democrat.
Do a little studying up on the issues and positions, before coming in here and making nonsense, empty declarations like "a real Democrat is a Democrat", when it is obvious that you don't have a clue what you are saying.

Buh bye.

OhZone

(3,212 posts)
25. The essence of Democrats also involves to actually build coalitions and -
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 09:01 PM
Apr 2016

actually get things passed.

Extremists who don't help the party get elected aren't the essence of Democrats.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
30. Who the hell do you think you're speaking to?
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 09:04 PM
Apr 2016

Someone that has reasoning power? It's not fair of you to expect a Clinton follower to be able to actually do anything but use ad hominem attacks. They suffer from Authoritarian Adulation Syndrome. Ooops I must be careful. I think WillyT got banned for using the word "Syndrome".

Land of Enchantment

(1,217 posts)
40. You must be listening to FOX-----or to the Hillary propaganda....
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 09:11 PM
Apr 2016

Yeah, and I took ten people on my 'honeymoon' too.....


http://www.newscorpse.com/ncWP/?p=29152
“The day after we got married, we marched in a Memorial Day Parade, and then we took off in a plane to start the sister city project with Yaroslovl with 10 other people on my honeymoon.”
The context was obviously humorous. Who could possibly read that and come away thinking that she seriously meant that they honeymooned with ten other people who were implementing a sister city project? Well, apparently Weinstein and others of his ilk came away believing just that. Weinstein likely picked up the lie from uber-conservative John Fund who wrote an article for the National Review containing the same misrepresentation of Sanders’ diplomatic trip.



http://www.wsj.com/articles/fighting-for-iowa-voters-bernie-sanders-leads-in-yaroslavl-1454099220
Mr. Sanders’s 1988 trip came as Mikhail Gorbachev’s policies opened up the Soviet Union to the rest of the world, prompting a wave of visits by foreigners of all political stripes and a surge in U.S.-Soviet sister-city pacts. Yaroslavl, a 600,000-person city with well-preserved churches and czarist-era buildings, buzzed with cultural activity and interest in the U.S.

“Our city, which was a very interesting bride, received various proposals from a number of American cities as suitors, including one from Milwaukee, but it didn’t work out with Milwaukee,” 58-year-old IT specialist Pavel Romanovsky said. “It turned out they were ‘bad boys.’ Sanders turned out to be a nice guy.”

Mr. Sanders had crafted what he called a foreign policy for the city of Burlington and made various trips abroad, including to Nicaragua and the Soviet Union.

In Yaroslavl, his delegation met local officials in between cruising the Volga and touring the churches and riverfront.

We are going to have to get used to wingnuts hyperventilating over the political labels attached to Sanders.





Check you facts before you post.



floppyboo

(2,461 posts)
73. I wonder how many Hillocrats are planning their Havana trip
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 09:51 PM
Apr 2016

now that it is opened up? Oh, never mind. That would require inquisitiveness.

Response to OhZone (Reply #12)

 

Silver_Witch

(1,820 posts)
110. Oh my god he went to Moscow wowowow
Sun Apr 17, 2016, 01:02 PM
Apr 2016

Stop the presses now that proves something for sure. He is a pinko commies Manchurian candidate. Call the police!!! Ahhhhhh!

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
119. I would LOVE to see Russia before I die.
Sun Apr 17, 2016, 01:43 PM
Apr 2016

St Petersburg, The Winter Palace & The Hermitage, Moscow, The Battlefields at Stalingrad and Kursk (where the Russians won WW2 for us), ride the China to Moscow (and beyond) Orient Express....so many places, so much art, so much history.
I pity anyone who does NOT want to see these places.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
15. That's a little misleading.
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 08:50 PM
Apr 2016

H. Clinton's net worth may be abt $21 million, her and Bill's net worth is close to $200,000,000. And that doesn't include their Retirement Plan (the Clinton Foundation).

Otherwise, good job.

KoKo

(84,711 posts)
16. I don't know... it is A Lot to Ask....
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 08:52 PM
Apr 2016

And, I voted for Bill Clinton twice... Not again. Electing a former President and his Wife smacks of DYNASTY to me.

They have had their time serving ... and we should move on.

Kalidurga

(14,177 posts)
81. I would still vote for Hillary though if she was what she wants us to think she is.
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 10:01 PM
Apr 2016

If she had a track record of fighting for poor people, working people, and women's rights beyond the needs of women in the work force I really wouldn't care she is married to Bill. But, she doesn't have a track that shows any such things. She didn't fight for workers when she was on the board of Walmart. She didn't fight for poor women while Bill was gutting the safety net. She hasn't fought for poor people who still have to pay an arm and a leg for health care copays and deductibles.

 

senz

(11,945 posts)
18. Her votes, donors and issue positions sure look Republican to me.
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 08:52 PM
Apr 2016

Democrats who support her either don't know about her positions, agree with her positions, or don't care.

The ones who agree would have to be DINOS; otherwise, "Democrat" is a meaningless term.

redstateblues

(10,565 posts)
49. Total bullshit- She was one of the most liberal Senators in Congress
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 09:16 PM
Apr 2016

To say she is akin to Ted Cruz et al is just fucking ridiculous. "She is a Republican" is just a smear-you BSS think that by repeating it daily makes it true. Reminds me of "not a dimes worth of difference.' How did that work out for you?

uponit7771

(90,359 posts)
26. Consummate sophistry builds distrust and turns into noise unless sourced for the candidate...
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 09:03 PM
Apr 2016

... themselves with context.

That's the best way to present a case and get some one to see your point, otherwise its "just lies" from those people who hate already.

Also, this list of concerns is pretty narrow on concerns and looks like Sanders list of boogy men vs one that Clinton's base really cares about.

I don't care if Clinton's net worth is 4234 trillion dollars and Sanders is dead broke for instance, that seems to be his cornerstone and one fit towards peaking ears of a demographic and not Clinton's base.

On the other hand if Clinton SHOWED throughout her poltical life she was indifferent towards IMPROVING the professionalism of police forces then that would be something that would peak her bases interest and possibly pull her away because that's her bases boogy men.

Hopefully that's a start

berniepdx420

(1,784 posts)
33. puff puff give.. your thoughts are a bit disjointed.. let's start by you telling us which of these
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 09:06 PM
Apr 2016

issues from the OP you agree with hillary and which you agree with Bernie.. ya know .. just to start.. I'll be a gentleman and I will go first...

I agree with Bernie on every single issue of the OP

Your turn ???

uponit7771

(90,359 posts)
38. Sigh, start a conversation then inject high school ass'd ad homs knowing damn well
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 09:11 PM
Apr 2016

... you didn't read shit I typed.

Again, as I said in the post... just sounds like more hate from people who are hating... that's noise and as with human behavior noise starts to be ignored.

I only care about one or two of the issues listed, they're cherries on top vs things that move Clinton's demographic towards the no... I wont vote for her list

Might as well have abortion and hate Obama on the list... both are noise to most of the left

berniepdx420

(1,784 posts)
60. hate ??.. by actually listing some major issues and how each candidates stands on them.. if you
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 09:23 PM
Apr 2016

think this list is lacking..please by all means make your own list and present it for scrutiny.. please

uponit7771

(90,359 posts)
61. MAJOR ISSUES TO WHO!?!!?! WOW... are you guys just waiting to type back a response or
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 09:24 PM
Apr 2016

... is there any interest in discussing the subject at hand

berniepdx420

(1,784 posts)
62. go ahead please.. we may agree with some... we may disagree on others... but if your gonna throw
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 09:25 PM
Apr 2016

shade ya gotta step up

uponit7771

(90,359 posts)
67. There's no shade being thrown here, I don't care how rich she is or if she gets her money from rich
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 09:31 PM
Apr 2016

... folk or some shit or if she wants to break up banks and the rest of it is sophistry at best which lends any human being objective towards someone they support to ignore them.

One of MY major concerns is a person so out of step with someone who doesn't look like him that they associate their campaign with someone who called Obama niggerized last year.

I'll start with that and it gets worse from there.

That alone is a big fuck you to you and yours for me...

Now on the issues, Sanders doesn't have a track record of effects of implementing his revolution even on a small scale..

If he did then maybe I can look past some of the other bullshit... right now he's just talkin head...

"I don't know" isn't something that should be coming out of his mouth when talking about his own damn platform...

Hard to take someone with little track record and no plan on getting one seriously

All in it together

(275 posts)
109. What! N...ized ! I don't believe it!
Sun Apr 17, 2016, 11:57 AM
Apr 2016

Bernie doesn't hate President Obama. He wants to build on what Obama started and take it further. He's had some disagreements with the president about Obama's willingness to cut Social Security benefits.

Look to Burlington VT if you want to see Bernie's work in action. He turned that city into a thriving place for it's people and Bernie was named one of the country's best Mayors.

He often works behind the scenes in congress and gets things done without aggrandizing himself.

Breaking up the too big to fail banks would help a lot of people struggling to get by and prevent another crash (less likely) from tearing up our economy, jobs, and local businesses again. It worked before after the 1929 crash, it could work again.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
35. I think you have some audacity to tell another how to "present a case." But I
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 09:08 PM
Apr 2016

am never surprised at the audacity of those that choose to side with the wealthy and ignore those among us struggling.

Mammon: The greedy pursuit of wealth or the worship of it.

uponit7771

(90,359 posts)
54. Again, instead of engaging in a conversation just engage in ad homs and expect
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 09:21 PM
Apr 2016

... people not to pass these retorts over as noise.

It's not like this list hasn't been posted here 20841249u times... wonder why you guys still get the same response?!?!?!

Really?!

Do SOMETHING different no?

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
90. Again the audacity to tell us what to do. I think it's the bully mentality of the Clinton fans.
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 10:37 PM
Apr 2016

I notice that you aren't saying that the data isn't accurate but that it's been published a lot. Well here's the deal.

We don't do what you say for starters. Secondly we are fighting to reduce the poverty levels against you and the greedy 1% that you support. Do you support Trickle Down or Mammon?

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
43. They are the kids on the playground that hid behind the biggest bully. Only brave
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 09:13 PM
Apr 2016

enough to stick out their tongues from behind. They see Clinton as the tough authoritarian that might protect them and tuck them in at night.
Our founders would barf to see this behavior. People afraid to fight for the freedoms and liberties that so many have sacrificed for over the centuries. If Goldman-Sachs insisted on them giving a sieg heil salute, they'd wet their pants to comply.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
48. Agree, but it is important how they amassed such a fortune. If corruption is involved then
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 09:16 PM
Apr 2016

we need to take heed. And believe me, corruption is their middle name. Wait until they start drawing down the wealth of the Foundation. The sycophants will be ecstatic. Mammon: The greedy pursuit of wealth and power or the worship of such.

David__77

(23,484 posts)
52. If there's something that I find unethical about how wealth was procured, then I'd care about that
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 09:18 PM
Apr 2016

The simple fact of some magnitude of wealth is unimportant to me. I do care about actions.

uponit7771

(90,359 posts)
58. THANK YOU!! I just posted something similar that the things on this list don't speak to
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 09:22 PM
Apr 2016

... a lot of Clinton's base primary voters concerns.

They are bag of bad for someone else

redstateblues

(10,565 posts)
39. I don't trust Bernie-I don't like Bernie-I can't afford Bernie
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 09:11 PM
Apr 2016

Hillary is a flawed candidate but she would be a better President than Bernie. Bernie is anger and envy merchant- There is nothing positive or uplifting about Bernie. Hopefully he will lose soon-I would vote for him if he wins but I wouldn't feel good about it.

 

SoLeftIAmRight

(4,883 posts)
78. I can't afford Bernie - lol - are you one of those that does not believe in America?
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 09:56 PM
Apr 2016

What do you mean when you say "I can't afford Bernie"?

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
122. Thats Odd.
Sun Apr 17, 2016, 02:05 PM
Apr 2016

The vast majority of the Working Class and Poor can't afford to NOT have Bernie.

Are you a 1%er?

TheDormouse

(1,168 posts)
75. many are comfortable as things stand and don't want to rock the boat too much
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 09:52 PM
Apr 2016

So Hillary is the perfect candidate for them.

 

Jitter65

(3,089 posts)
83. I don't see 1994 Crime bill, Brady bill, automatic weapons ban, gun loophole,
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 10:10 PM
Apr 2016

or the votes to increase military spending for Iraq and Afghanistan.

 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
94. Or on issues, it would seem.
Sat Apr 16, 2016, 11:10 PM
Apr 2016

If you do I imagine you'll prefer the republican to Sanders in November.

Response to berniepdx420 (Original post)

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